Amoonguss (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by ScraftyIsTheBest, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest all hail Greninja
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    Alright, here we go.

    [​IMG]

    Foongus Amoonguss

    [Overview]

    <p>For a long time, Amoonguss was not a very useful Pokemon on the competitive scene. It was cursed with mediocre stats in all areas bar HP, and its typing is not exactly ideal offensively or defensively. Amoonguss's movepool isn't anything to write home about either outside of Spore, which meant it had little to work with. It was also as a result almost entirely outclassed by numerous Grass-types such as Roserade and Shaymin. All of these bad points led to Amoonguss never seeing any real use.</p>

    <p>However, with the transition to BW2, Amoonguss has gained an ability that gives it a new lease on life: Regenerator. Thanks to this wonderful ability, Amoonguss can constantly recover itself upon switching out, while its access to the rare Spore, surprising bulk, and resistances to Water, Electric, and Fighting make it a legitimate threat in UU. Amoonguss's bulk and typing allow it to take on numerous threats in the tier such as Kingdra, Shaymin, and Mienshao. Its movepool, albeit small, has just enough tools for Amoonguss to work with, such as Spore, Clear Smog, and Stun Spore. Despite its middling offensive stats, weaknesses to Fire, Ice, and Flying, and competition from other Grass-types, Amoonguss is still a solid Pokemon for use in UU.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Clear Smog / Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Stun Spore / Synthesis
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Amoonguss's flagship set, which it pulls off quite decently. Thanks to good bulk and resistances allowing it to take on threats such as Zapdos, Mienshao, and Kingdra, this set can be a good fit on more defensive teams. While it faces stiff competition as a defensive Grass-type from Roserade, Amoonguss stands out with its perfectly accurate Spore, Regenerator, and good physical defense. Spore is the big selling point of this set, completely incapacitating an opponent. With the new sleep mechanics, this is essentially eliminating said Pokemon from the match. Giga Drain is the primary STAB move, dealing a decent amount of damage and restoring HP. Clear Smog is the preferred move in the next moveslot, as although extremely weak, it resets stat changes, allowing Amoonguss to deter setup chances. Sludge Bomb is, however, acceptable if the extra power is preferred over resetting stat boosts. Finally, Stun Spore is the chosen move to cripple opponents with paralysis after one Pokemon has fallen to Spore. However, Synthesis can be used as reliable recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread invests maximum HP and Defense to allow Amoonguss to more reliably check threats such as Kingdra and Mienshao, still leaving Amoonguss with enough special bulk to take on Raikou. A specially defensive EV spread can be used to more reliably check special variants of Kingdra as well as Raikou and Zapdos. However, this also leaves Amoonguss more prone to Heracross. Leftovers is the chosen item for its consistent recovery. Regenerator is the preferred ability as a means of free recovery should Amoonguss be forced out of the battle.</p>

    <p>Slowbro is an excellent teammate for Amoonguss, resisting most attacks that Amoonguss fears and vice versa. Slowbro also forms a Regenerator core with Amoonguss as they both sport the ability. Additionally, entry hazard support from the likes of Qwilfish or Bronzong is helpful, as Amoonguss may force some switches. Finally, a Dark-type such as Bisharp can be helpful to keep opposing Psychic-types at bay. Bisharp in particular benefits from Amoonguss being able to take on its common counters, such as Fighting-types.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Stun Spore
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 120 HP / 128 Def / 252 SpA / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Despite an average 85 Special Attack, Amoonguss can effectively take on an offensive role. This set hits decently hard, standing out from its main competitors with Spore being able to incapacitate an opponent as well as Regenerator being able to heal off Life Orb damage. Its decent bulk along with its typing also ensure that it will be able to last long enough to be able to dent an opposing team. Spore is again used to basically eliminate an opponent from the match with the fifth generation sleep mechanics. Giga Drain is the preferred STAB move here, hitting for solid damage while also proving Amoonguss with recovery. Sludge Bomb is essential secondary STAB; it hits Grass-types hard while hitting neutrally against incoming Fire-types such as Darmanitan. Hidden Power Fire is the preferred coverage move here to hit Steel-types such as Bisharp and Cobalion for heavy damage. Stun Spore, however, can be used in order to cripple an opponent, making up for Amoonguss's low Speed stat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum is invested into Special Attack to hit as hard as possible. 120 HP EVs give an HP stat that works best with the Life Orb. The remaining EVs are dumped into Defense to add overall bulk. Regenerator is the ability of choice here as a form of recovery should Amoonguss be forced out; it also works well with Life Orb wearing Amoonguss down. A Life Orb is the preferred item for its additional power as Amoonguss is playing an offensive role. Hidden Power Rock is a notable option that can be used over Hidden Power Fire in order to hit Chandelure, but Chandelure can be incapacitated with Spore and Hidden Power Fire has more general utility.</p>

    <p>As with the previous set, Slowbro makes for a great teammate, sporting both good defensive and offensive synergy with Amoonguss, and it can also set up Trick Room, which works well with Amoonguss's low Speed stat. Spikes support from the likes of Froslass or Qwilfish is useful to help Amoonguss attain more needed KOs that it may otherwise miss out on. As Chandelure may be troublesome, Houndoom or Arcanine is useful to keep opposing Chandelure at bay while being able to maim bulky Steel-types that trouble Amoonguss. Finally, a weapon against Psychic-types such as Azelf or Mew is useful. Bisharp and Escavalier are both good examples of these, and can keep Psychic-types in check.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Amoonguss doesn't have a lot of other options it can use effectively. That said, there are some tricks it can pull off. Venoshock is one that stands out the most, as when used in conjunction with either Toxic or Toxic Spikes it can be very lethal against the opposing team. However, this is very situational and such strategy requires significant support. Growth is a useful boosting move to enhance Amoonguss's average offensive stats, making it a bigger threat. Unfortunately, Amoonguss's low Speed cripples it to the point where it won't find much time to successfully set up. Grass Knot is decent, and can hit Suicune for significantly more damage, but Giga Drain is much more reliable. Body Slam can work to paralyze an opponent while dealing decent damage, but Stun Spore is much more reliable. Payback is also usable as it can catch incoming Chandelure while working well with Amoonguss's low Speed. Foul Play is very interesting, and the ability to catch incoming Darmanitan and Victini can be useful in some situations. This however is difficult to fit in a moveslot. Finally, Amoonguss has access to Rain Dance and Sunny Day to support weather oriented teams, and is quite bulky to boot. However, you're often better off using Azelf or Bronzong, which either have a better typing or stronger offensive stats, to utilize these moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Of the things that can check or counter Amoonguss, the ones that stand out most are the ones that don't mind falling for Spore. The most notable of these is Xatu. Thanks to Magic Bounce, it can reflect back Spore and overall prevent Amoonguss from doing much of any value. Roserade doesn't exactly mind Spore thanks to Natural Cure, and is capable of incapacitating Amoonguss with Sleep Powder before it reacts. Users of Sleep Talk, such as Snorlax, Yanmega, Crobat, Heracross, and Escavalier can all put hurt on Amoonguss even while asleep. That aside, thanks to the number of weaknesses Amoonguss has, there are a number of Pokemon that can take Amoonguss down. Fire-types such as Chandelure, Darmanitan, and Victini can remove Amoonguss quickly from the battlefield. Honchkrow, Crobat, and Togekiss also don't care about Amoonguss at all. Mew, Azelf, Meloetta, and Weavile are also good Pokemon to take Amoonguss on. Taunt and Substitute are both great ways to stop Amoonguss, as it cannot pull off a Spore afterwards. Bisharp is a great example as it doesn't mind much of anything else Amoonguss has to offer, barring Hidden Power Fire on the offensive set, and can use it as setup fodder. Finally, if needed, you can use Trick on Amoonguss to essentially render it useless for the remainder of the match.</p>
  2. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    I know you're still working on this, but I'd like to chime in. First off, I'm not completely sure if it should just go max/max, since it doesn't ensure it won't be 2HKOed by Jolly Scarf Heracross after SR (though only by a slim margin), and therefore it could easily look for another checkpoint. I'm also not sure about the name, since 'physically defensive' implies there'll be a 'specially defensive' (which I don't know if it's worth adding, even though I used it as a secondary check to Raikou).
    That said, if it's not gonna be a set, OO mention a Specially Defensive spread with Seed Bomb to always break standard Raikou's Substitutes, even with a -Atk nature. That's actually quite useful, since it can easily avoid the 2HKO with HP Ice at +1 (funnily though, not even max/max will have it guaranteed to avoid it, similarly to Jolly Heracross on the other side).
    Checks and counters should begin by mentioning things that can avoid Spore. Xatu should then be the number one counter. Of all the rest, besides Natural Cure users which are kind of iffy since you can't be sure of if it's best to switch out or stay in (staying in is probably best), there are very few worthy of mention. Vital Spirit Magmortar is quite uncommon in UU, Insomnia Honch is nonexistant due to Moxie being much better, and Sap Sipper is extremely rare too. Guts Heracross with Sleep Talk is probably the most threatening, though it's still way too uncommon, then again it only has a 33% chance of calling Megahorn and actually threatening to KO it, and that's only for the CB set; Scarf won't 2HKO it anytime soon, which means it'll have to call Megahorn twice.
    Since all of those see little use, I think that you should mention Xatu as its best counter, followed by all the stuff that can threaten it after Sleep Clause has been activated. I wouldn't even mention RestTalk Snorlax, since it has little going for it in that matchup and even if it has Curse over Whirlwind it's gonna lose to Clear Smog Guss.

    EDIT: Yea, what cim said. I can't believe I forgot about Stun Spore, it's arguably the best move it can use after it's put something to sleep.
  3. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Mention what Pokemon and attacks the tank set walls.

    I don't think HP Fire is all that useful. Amoonguss is a great Cobalion check but it's going to be Volt Switching out anyway. A second status move (stun spore, etc) seems more useful.

    As for Counters - divide it into "things that don't mind spore" and a much longer list of "things that beat it once something is asleep". Special mention to stuff like Crobat, especially CB Crobat which packs Sleep Talk. Xatu stops it from doing anything of value as well.
  4. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest all hail Greninja
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    Okay, made some changes here. I spit the Checks and Counters list and replaced HP Fire with Stun Spore. So should be ready.
  5. Nas

    Nas you know my steez
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    QC talked on IRC and we decided to add this LO Attacker set, since Amoonguss can actually function quite well as an offensive Pokemon.

    name: Offensive
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Stun Spore
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 120 HP / 128 Def / 252 SpA / 8 Spe​

    The EV spread invests fully in Special Attack to allow Amoonguss to hit as hard as possible, 120 HP hits a LO number and the rest is dumped into Defense to give it some additional bulk. You can mention Hidden Power Rock in AC to hit Chandelure, but you can always Spore it and HP Fire has more utility overall.​
  6. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest all hail Greninja
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    Alright, I implemented that set. Also did some Set and Additional Comments.

    Anyways, should be ready for checks now.
  7. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    I was wondering if it was worth it to invest in Special Defense so that it can take on Special Kingdra variants better... When you look at its stats, it isn't that much less specially bulky than Slowking so it could do a good job (Slowking's spread reaches 393/283/256, while Amoonguss's current spread reaches 432/262/196, so it's much more physically bulky but lacking in Special Defense). As long as it doesn't make it too weak on the physical side, I'd assume it's useful.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    You should mention a specially defensive spread in AC of the first set anyway since it'll make Amoongus better at walling Shaymin, allows you to check special Kingdra, Raikou and Zapdos to a certain extent.

    Otherwise

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  9. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest all hail Greninja
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    Gonna bump this for second QC check
  10. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Yanmega should be running Sleep Talk on its Specs set and it really, really wrecks Amoonguss. Might want to mention that.
  11. Nas

    Nas you know my steez
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    Make sure you elaborate on your descriptions when you write this up. Also, OO isn't the place to put random moves that have absolutely no use. (like Rollout and Poisonpowder) Discuss Specially Defensive EV Spreads, Venoshock + Toxic/Toxic Spikes, Growth, Foul Play, Grass Knot, and Weather Support. Once that's done,

    QC Approved 2/3
  12. Ernesto

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    I'm sorry for bringing this up so late, but if you're gonna mention Sleep Talk users such as CB crobat and Specs yanmega as counters before Sleep Clause has been activated, shouldn't Guts Sleep Talk Hera be mentioned? The Scarf set can 2HKO if ST doesn't select Close Combat (Megahorn does 59-70% with a Jolly nature), and the Band set can OHKO with Megahorn, especially if running Adamant. In return, Amoonguss's uninvested Sludge Bomb does 35% max. The Life Orb set can be OHKOed by Megahorn after SR or one round of LO from Jolly Scarf Hera, while it does 65% max with Sludge Bomb, 67% with HP Fire.
  13. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest all hail Greninja
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    Sorry for the wait, but this is written up and ready for third QC check.
  14. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    I know you must be starting to hate me by now, and it seems like I'm being particularly nitpicky with this analysis so I apologize, but you're giving Crobat the merit it deserves as an Amoonguss counter. Of all the mentioned Pokes, it's the only one to take little from Guss's dual STABs + naturally run Sleep Talk on its Choice Band set. Chandelure could also be up there, but it never runs Sleep Talk so it's a few steps behind.

    Also, CB Escavalier is seeing more usage now than when you started writing this set, and it normally carries Sleep Talk, so I'd say it's an amazing answer to all non-HP Fire variants, taking virtually nothing from Amoonguss's STABs and hitting incredibly hard with Megahorn. Its low speed makes it not that great since, though, since it won't be able to check HP Fire variants unless it actually invests in Speed.
  15. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    This has been waiting for more than two weeks for third check at this point.
  16. DestinyUnknown

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    I would remove the Raikou's mention on the Overview because Amoonguss loses to CM Raikou all the time (Clear Smog doesn't work against Substitute), replace it with Zapdos or / and Shaymin. Also include Crobat and Escavalier as counters (as they use Sleep Talk on their Choiced sets).

    Other than that:

    QC Approved 3/3
  17. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Thanks dunk for the final QC check (finally). Now GP, have at!
  18. GatoDelFuego

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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

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    [Overview]

    <p>For a long time, Amoonguss was not a very useful Pokemon on the competitive scene. It was cursed with mediocre stats in all areas bar HP, and its typing is not exactly ideal offensively nor defensively. Amoonguss's movepool isn't anything to write home about either outside of Spore, which meant it had little to work with. It was also as a result almost entirely outclassed by numerous Grass-types such as Roserade and Shaymin. All of these bad points lead to Amoonguss never seeing any real use.</p>

    <p>However, with the transition to BW2, Amoonguss has gained an ability that gives it a new lease on life: Regenerator. Thanks to this wonderful ability, Amoonguss can constantly recover itself upon switching out, while its access to the rare Spore, surprisingly great bulk, and resistances to Water, Electric, and Fighting make it a legitimate threat in UU. Amoonguss's bulk and typing allow it to take on numerous threats in the tier such as Kingdra, Shaymin, and Mienshao. Its movepool, albeit small, has just enough tools for Amoonguss to work with, such as Spore, Clear Smog, and Stun Spore. Despite its middling offensive stats, weaknesses to Fire, Ice, and Flying, and competition from other Grass-types, Amoonguss is still a solid Pokemon for use in UU.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Clear Smog / Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Stun Spore / Synthesis
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Amoonguss's flagship set, which it pulls off quite decently. Thanks to good bulk and resistances allowing it to take on threats such as Zapdos, Mienshao, and Kingdra, this set can be a good fit on more defensive teams. While it faces stiff competition as a defensive Grass-type from Roserade, Amoonguss stands out with its perfectly accurate Spore, Regenerator, and good physical defense. Spore is the big selling point of this set, completely incapacitating an opponent. With the new sleep mechanics, this is essentially eliminating said Pokemon from the match. Giga Drain is the primary STAB move, dealing a decent amount of damage and restoring HP. Clear Smog is the preferred move in the next moveslot, as although extremely weak, it resets stat changes, allowing Amoonguss to deter setup chances. Sludge Bomb is, however, acceptable if the extra power is preferred over resetting stat boosts. Finally, Stun Spore is the chosen move to cripple opponents with paralysis after one Pokemon has fallen to Spore. However, Synthesis can be used as reliable recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread invests maximum into HP and Defense to allow Amoonguss to be able to more reliably check threats such as Kingdra and Mienshao, while still having still leaving Amoonguss with enough special bulk to take on Raikou. However, a specially defensive EV spread can be used to more reliably check special variants of Kingdra as well as Raikou and Zapdos. However, this also leaves Amoonguss more prone to Heracross. Leftovers is the chosen item for its consistent recovery. Regenerator is the preferred ability as a means of free recovery should Amoonguss be forced out of the battle.</p>

    <p>Slowbro is an excellent teammate for Amoonguss, resisting most attacks that Amoonguss fears while the the same goes with for Slowbro's weaknesses with Amoonguss. Slowbro also forms a Regenerator core with Amoonguss as it also sports the ability. Additionally, entry hazard support from the likes of Qwilfish or Bronzong is helpful, as Amoonguss may force some switches. Finally, a Dark-type such as Bisharp can be helpful to keep opposing Psychic-types at bay. Bisharp in particular benefits from Amoonguss being able to take on its common counters, such as Fighting-types.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Stun Spore
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 120 HP / 128 Def / 252 SpA / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Despite an average 85 Special Attack, Amoonguss can effectively take on an offensive role. This set hits decently hard, while it standing out from its main competitors with Spore being able to incapacitate an opponent, (RC) as well as Regenerator being able to heal off Life Orb damage. Its decent bulk along with its typing also ensure that it will be able to last long enough to be able to dent the an opposing team. Spore is again used to basically eliminate an opponent from the match with the fifth generation sleep mechanics. Giga Drain is the preferred STAB move here, hitting for solid damage while also proving Amoonguss with recovery. Sludge Bomb is essential secondary STAB; it hits Grass-types hard while hitting for neutral against incoming Fire-types such as Darmanitan. Hidden Power Fire is the preferred coverage move here to hit Steel-types such as Bisharp and Cobalion for heavy damage. Stun Spore, however, can be used in order to cripple an opponent, making up for Amoonguss's low Speed stat.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum is invested into Special Attack to hit as hard as possible. 120 HP EVs give an HP stat that works well best with the Life Orb. The remaining EVs are dumped into Defense to add overall bulk to last long. Regenerator is the ability of choice here as a form of recovery should Amoonguss be forced out; it also works well with Life Orb wearing Amoonguss down. A Life Orb is the preferred item for its additional power since as Amoonguss is playing an offensive role. Hidden Power Rock is a notable option that can be used over Hidden Power Fire in order to hit Chandelure, but it Chandelure can be incapacitated with Spore, (RC) and Hidden Power Fire has more general utility.</p>

    <p>As with the previous set, Slowbro makes for a great teammate, sporting both good defensive and offensive synergy with Amoonguss, and it can also set up Trick Room, which works well with Amoonguss's low Speed stat. Spikes support from the likes of Froslass or Qwilfish is useful to help Amoonguss attain more needed KOs that it may otherwise miss out on. Since As Chandelure may be troublesome, Houndoom or Arcanine is useful to keep opposing Chandelure at bay while being able to maim bulky Steel-types that trouble Amoonguss. Finally, a weapon against Psychic-types such as Azelf or Mew is useful. Bisharp and Escavalier are both good examples of these, and can keep Psychic-types in check.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Amoonguss doesn't have a lot of other options it can use effectively. That said, there are some tricks it can pull off. Venoshock is one that stands out the most, and as when used in conjunction with either Toxic or Toxic Spikes, (RC) it can be very lethal against the opposing team. However, this is very situational and such strategy requires significant support maintenance. Growth is a useful boosting move to enhance Amoonguss's average offensive stats, making it a bigger threat. Unfortunately, Amoonguss's low Speed cripples it to the point where it won't find much time to successfully set up. Grass Knot is decent, and can hit Suicune for significantly more damage, but Giga Drain is much more reliable. Body Slam can work to paralyze an opponent while dealing decent damage, but Stun Spore is much more reliable. Payback is also usable as it can catch incoming Chandelure while working well with Amoonguss's low Speed. Foul Play is very interesting, and the ability to catch incoming Darmanitan and Victini can be useful in some situations. This however is difficult to fit a moveslot in. Finally, Amoonguss has access to Rain Dance and Sunny Day to support weather oriented teams, and is quite bulky to boot. However, you're often better off using Azelf or Bronzong, which either have a better typing or stronger offensive stats, to utilize these moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Of the things that can check or counter Amoonguss, the ones that stand out most are the ones that don't mind falling for Spore. The most notable of these is Xatu. Thanks to Magic Bounce, it can bounce reflect back Spore, (RC) and overall prevent Amoonguss from doing much of any value. Roserade doesn't exactly mind Spore thanks to Natural Cure, and is capable of incapacitating Amoonguss with Sleep Powder before it reacts. Users of Sleep Talk, such as Snorlax, Yanmega, Crobat, Heracross, and Escavalier can all put hurt on Amoonguss even while asleep. That aside, thanks to the number of weaknesses Amoonguss has, there are a number of Pokemon that take Amoonguss down. Fire-types such as Chandelure, Darmanitan, and Victini can remove Amoonguss quickly from the battlefield. Honchkrow, Crobat, and Togekiss also don't care about Amoonguss at all. Mew, Azelf, Meloetta, and Weavile are also good Pokemon to take Amoonguss on examples of this. Taunt and Substitute are both great ways to stop Amoonguss, as it cannot pull off a Spore afterwards. Bisharp is a great example as it doesn't mind much of anything else Amoonguss has to offer, barring Hidden Power Fire on the offensive set, and can use it as setup fodder. Finally, if needed, you can use Trick on Amoonguss to essentially render it useless for the remainder of the match.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  19. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Implemented that check-Just need one more!
  20. jumpluff

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    Very well-written, good job!

    [gp]2/2~[/gp]
  21. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Thanks for that GP check Jumpluff. This is now officially done.
  22. kokoloko

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    uploaded; great job everyone

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