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Amoonguss (Skeleton) [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by HuntSaboteur, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. HuntSaboteur

    HuntSaboteur

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    171
    [​IMG]

    Amoonguss

    Overview
    -Best known in NU, but also good in RU
    -Since BW2, it has obtained Regenerator, extremely useful for what it does
    -The most obvious and largest benefit of using Amoonguss is Spore
    -Poison typing – the only weakness of Amoonguss that pure Grass doesn't have is Psychic, which is only semi-common (Slowking, Uxie); it can also absorb Toxic and Toxic Spikes
    -Mediocre base stats apart from a good HP: this Pokemon's advantage isn't in the numbers

    Set 1

    Double Powder

    Ability: Regenerator
    Item: Leftovers
    EV: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    -Spore
    -Stun Spore / Toxic
    -Giga Drain
    -Sludge Bomb

    Notes

    -Amoonguss's “basic” set, and the one which makes the most use of Spore
    -Double powdering is a classic Gen 1 trick: Spore, and then when the opponent switches (hopefully), Stun Spore away.
    -Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb give decent all-around coverage (the only type which they are both worse than neutral against is Steel, and the only common Steel-type in RU is Steelix, which is part Ground and so does not have a Grass resistance)
    -Toxic can be used instead of Stun Spore. When predicting that stalls will switch in after another of the opponent's Pokemon has been incapacitated with Spore, Toxic is a better option than Thunder Wave.
    -After double-powdering, Amoonguss can switch out and activate Regenerator.

    Team Options & Additional Comments

    -Toxic can be used alongside Spore and Stun Spore to create a “triple powder” effect.
    -Grass attacks are particularly important in RU as four of the tier's most common Pokemon (Kabutops, Omastar, Quagsire, and Rhydon, in descending order of abundance) are 4x weak to them. Giga Drain is exceptionally good for this as it also provides a way of healing without having to switch out.
    -Grass types generally have good synergy with Fire types, so two Pokemon that would benefit from Amoonguss are Moltres and Entei, usually seen as the two best fire types in RU.
    -Seeing as Amoonguss has very low speed, it is useful on a Trick Room team, although Amoonguss's playstyle does not require much speed.


    Set 2

    Stallbreaker

    Ability: Regenerator
    Item: Leftovers
    EV: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpD
    Nature: Calm / Bold
    -Spore
    -Clear Smog
    -Toxic
    -Sludge Bomb / Giga Drain / Synthesis

    -The main form of attack for this set is via Toxic, which devastates stall Pokemon. Amoonguss, the rest of the time, heals itself and stops any stat setups.
    -Clear Smog is vital to stop any stall Pokemon breaking through the defence, to stop stalls becoming invincible with defence boosts (e.g. Sigilyph), and also to stop any Pokemon whom you think are defensive but suddenly turn offensive (e.g. Nasty Plot Cofagrigus).
    -It's Amoonguss, therefore it uses Spore. Although it may be possible to run both Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain on this set, Spore is unparalleled, and putting a Pokemon to sleep is almost always a good thing (with the exception of RestTalkers)

    Additional Comments

    -Its Poison typing prevents any stalls Toxicking it and therefore stopping it being of any use when outstalling Amoonguss.
    -The choice of the last move is rather complex. Synthesis seems like the obvious solution for a stallbreaker, but it is rendered obsolete in any other role by Regenerator. However, running any moveset with no direct attacks is always risky, as Toxic doesn't work against opposing Poison types (however rare they are), Rest users, and a Pokemon that already has a status condition, possibly even after a previous Spore hit. Taunt is not much of a problem in RU, but it is still existent, and Struggle is not generally seen as competitively viable.

    Set 3

    Venoshock

    Ability: Regenerator
    Item: Leftovers
    EV: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Nature: Bold / Timid
    -Spore
    -Toxic
    -Venoshock
    -Giga Drain

    -It's gimmicky, but 130 base power is not to be laughed at when it comes to Venoshocking when the opponent is poisoned, hence Toxic.
    -Spore is there, as always. It's better for the opponent to have a Pokemon Spored and then switch another in than to remove the sleep. It's Amoonguss's best trick, so it's best to use it.
    -Giga Drain is for healing when Regenerator is inappropriate, and also as a secondary and more reliable STAB.

    Additional Comments
    -This set and the Stallbreaker set can be combined to form a sort of “hyper stallbreaker”. With Spore, Toxic, Venoshock and Clear Smog, Amoonguss becomes the bane of any stall without RestTalk – however, its reign of terror only lasts until the inevitable Moltres enters.
    -This kind of Amoonguss and Toxic Spikes Qwilfish compliment each other almost perfectly. Not only can Qwilfish set up Toxic Spikes, making Venoshock more reliable (although it can be annoying when Spore fails because of it!), it also counters Fire-types and some of the Flying threats (e.g. Aerodactyl, which is as frequently used in a lead role as Qwilfish is), while leaving a dent on Gallade at the same time. When teaming up with Qwilfish, Amoonguss should invest EVs and its nature in Special Defence, as its fugu teammate focuses on physical walls.
    -Toxic Spikes in general goes well with Venoshock.


    Other Options
    -Amoonguss has only one viable physical move. You read that correctly, only one, and it's Seed Bomb, which is outclassed anyway on Amoonguss by Giga Drain. The closest it comes otherwise is Body Slam, which is all but rendered useless by Stun Spore, and Facade, which even with Flame Orb is a move that is used much better by other Pokemon. Even with Cofagrigus out of the tier, Normal-type coverage is not that good.
    -As Spore gives an almost guaranteed setup turn, Amoonguss can use this to become slightly more potent by boosting Special Attack with Growth or Defence with Defence Curl, although both of these are +1... except in sun, with the case of Growth.
    -Amoonguss is fairly good in the sun, as it has access to SolarBeam and Growth for a more offensive role. However, this leaves it vulnerable to Moltres and Entei.
    -Gastro Acid is a rather interesting move that neuters the opponent's ability. While abilities are indeed crucial in any metagame, it takes time to set up, and the only setup opportunity Amoonguss has (Spore) cannot guarantee a switch-in of an ability reliant Pokemon.


    Counters
    -Sap Sipper almost completely destroys non-stallbreaking Amoonguss. Bouffalant, therefore, is an almost complete counter.
    -Rest Talkers utterly demolish Toxic-reliant stallbreaker sets, and can also switch in on Amoonguss when a Spore is inevitable.
    -Gallade and Moltres are generally good offensive counters, but they cannot switch in unless another teammate is asleep. Entei is not recommended, because it's not only Amoonguss that will be KO'd.
  2. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    998
    Amoonguss does not break stall. It is basically tangrowth with spore and a fighting resist and much less physical bulk. It will also fall to zen heabutt from gallade which is a disadvantage. Even with more SpD it can not take fire blasts.

    Summary:
    Only keep 1st set
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Yeah, what he said. Stallbreaker set is not what Amoongussc does well and Venoshock is honestly just plain bad.
  4. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    546
    The format for your sets is completely wrong, the sets should look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Spore
    move 2: Stun Spore / Toxic
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Sludge Bomb
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    Also, Clear Smog should be somewhere on this set to prevent Amoonguss becoming setup bait for dangerous sweepers such as Gallade.

    Stallbreaker and Venoshock should not be sets, you can put both in OO.
    Also, Checks and Counters needs to be much bigger, mention Lum Berry users such as Gallade and Substitute users who can block Spore. Pokemon such as Klinklang with Substitute can easily setup on Amoonguss.
  5. HuntSaboteur

    HuntSaboteur

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    171
    I'll remove Venoshock and update Counters later, thanks Endorfins. I have admitted that Stallbreaker Amoonguss has problems with Moltres and Gallade, there's no denying it. But I still think that it is viable, I know the other one is better, but that's like saying "don't include any special Entei sets because Flare Blitz CB is better". Even though it is, I think that there should be an alternative.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand and will take the comments on board, just saying.

    P.S. I'll update the formatting later as well.
  6. Solace

    Solace darling i'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    RU kidding me?

    I think everyone is in agreement that this is Not Quality and that you don't really seem to know what you're talking about.

    so locking.

    Omi edit: Solace gtfo

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