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An attempt at the ladder (First RMT)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Lixion, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Lixion

    Lixion

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Hi, I am Lixion, and I am new to the Smogon community, this being my first post on the forums. I am new to competitive battling in general, having started maybe around 2 months ago.

    I heard about B2/W2 and the new formes and stuff, including interesting pokes such as Imposter Ditto, Techniloom and DD Outrage Moxiemence(*shudder*) and was really interested to try them out. Thus when PS! had the new formes released I immediately started to make a rain team utilizing the new threats BW2 brought. For those interested to know, I am currently rated 1708 on PS! ladder. Not that good, I know.

    Anyways, on to the team.

    TEAM BUILDING PROCESS

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Since I had a rain team in mind, Politoed was a given. I decided to scarf it, since I am not a huge fan of defensive Politoed in general, as I feel it is a little underwhelming when matched up against certain threats. Thundurus-Therian was my first chosen sweeper, for his ridiculous 145 SpA.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Here I decided to insert some walls. Really, I decided to use Jirachi because I was getting a little tired of using Ferrothorn all the time, and also I thought my team could use some paralysis support and Wishes. Skarmory was my choice for a physical wall, and also to lay down some Spikes and phaze.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Since I had a special sweeper in Thundurus, it would make sense for me to add a physical one next. I chose Gyarados, as his typing goes well with Thundurus's new Volt Absorb (sorta like Gyaravire back in the days), it lures out Electric type attacks and gives free HP to Thundurus unless they overpredict. It also alleviates Thundurus's Stealth Rock weakness.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I'm sure you all can see that both my sweepers have a glaring Stealth Rock weakness. Thus a spinner was required. Since this is a fairly offensive team, Starmie was my choice for a spinner. Thus forms the original version of the team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After playing on PS! for a while, I realized Jirachi wasn't pulling its weight. In addition, both my sweepers were extremely weak to opposing Starmies, and I had nothing to switch into a Starmie Hydro Pump in the rain. As much as I was reluctant to at first, Ferrothorn was the obvious replacement, being able to take hits from Starmie while still able to put up rocks.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Here, I began to dislike Thundurus a little bit. As powerful as it is, it lacked the bulk to take priority Ice Shards/Bullet Punches/Mach Punches, which was worrying because I was using an Agility set. As much as I loved using it, I decided Tornadus-Therian will be better in this team, offering as much power behind Specs Hurricane. And because I did not use Thundurus anymore, I felt Gyarados will just be an additional Electric weakness(4x) on my team, thus I scrapped it in favour of Banded Scizor, which also helped me check the Lati twins and Technilooms with its Pursuits and Bullet Punches, as well as acting as a scout.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This is the current version of the team. My team was not that vulnerable to rocks anymore. Only Tornadus had a weakness to rocks, but then he has Regenerator to mitigate the damage. Starmie was no longer needed, so I went looking for a replacement. While searching, I realised how weak the new threats such as Moxie Mence, the Therians and Breloom were to priority Ice Shards from Mamoswine, thus he became the last member of my team.

    THE TEAM

    [​IMG]

    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Perish Song
    - Focus Blast

    What will a rain team be without Politoed? Politoed brings to this team eternal rain, making it an obvious choice for a rain team. The Politoed set I chose is a Choice Scarf Politoed, because as mentioned earlier, I am not a big fan of defensive Politoed, and with walls in Ferrothorn and Skarmory I felt that making Politoed defensive would be overkill. Hydro Pump is the obvious STAB move, dealing respectable damage under the rain. Ice Beam is used to hit Dragons, but unless I am predicting a switch, I will most likely stick to spamming Hydro Pumps under the rain, as Ice Beam doesn't do enough damage to threaten Grass-types (it only does around 40% to Celebi). Hidden Power Grass is to prevent myself from being walled by Water Absorbers and Gastrodon. Perish Song might seem weird on a Choiced set, but it allows me to stop setup sweepers in a pinch while they are still setting up. Focus Blast can be an alternative to hit Tyranitar with, but I already have Tyranitar well covered and it always misses so nope.

    I max SpA and Speed EVs on Politoed. Since I am new to competitive Pokemon in general, I have no idea what are the magic EVs number are (like X pokemon needs X speed EVs to outspeed standard Y pokemon). Maxing Special attack and speed seemed logical enough to me on a scarfed pokemon. Modest nature is chosen for the extra power.

    Politoed plays a key role on this team, so much so that it can be considered the Pokemon that makes the team happen. Providing Rain is one, but it also acts as a pseudo-phazer with Perish Song and a revenge killer with a Scarf.

    [​IMG]

    Skarmory @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird

    Skarmory is, and always will be the best physical wall outside of Ubers. It has the stats to be one, it has the ability to be one, it has the typing to be one, and more importantly it has a movepool to be one. Having hazards, a phazing move AND a reliable recovery? Yes please. This is the standard fully physically defensive Skarmory, and it does its job well. It can stop most physical attackers dead in its tracks, and the standard offensive DD Dragonite does not 3HKO under the rain with Fire Punch, allowing me to easily phaze it out. Brave Bird is the obligatory STAB move, dealing respectable damage to anything that does not resist it.

    The EVs is the standard Physically Defensive build. Max HP and Defense allows Skarmory to take hits from almost any physical attackers. 4 EVs are put in Speed to outspeed opposing Skarmory that put their remaining for EVs somewhere else.

    Skarmory's role in the team is self-explanatory. Taking physical hits from pretty much anything, it acts as the physical sponge of the team. Tornadus and Mamoswine force alot of switches, thus they appreciate the Spikes that Skarmory lays down on the field. By stacking entry hazards damage with Whirlwind, Tornadus can easily come in and sweep late game, thus this Pokemon is invaluable to the team's success.

    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 168 SDef / 88 Def
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip/Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball

    Ferrothorn is too good to pass up on a rain team. Its typing is easily one of the best defensive typings, giving it only 2 weaknesses, Fire and Fighting, one of which is halved in effectiveness under the rain, allowing it to take hits like there is no tommorow, while still posing a major threat to speedy attackers in the form of Gyro Ball. I choose to use Stealth Rocks on Ferrothorn because I didn't like the idea of setting up Spikes with him as I felt those turns could be used to do massive damage with either STAB Gyro Ball or Power Whip. Leech Seed is a reliable recovery move for him, thus it is on the set. Power Whip can be replaced with Protect for stalling for recovery and Perish Song turns, but since people will likely switch out of Perish Song once they see Protect, and Ferrothorn has enough bulk to take hits without additional recovery anyway, I feel Power Whip is a superior choice over Protect.

    I copied the EVs from the standard Ferrothorn analysis on Smogon, as I am too n00b to form my own customized EV spreads (I seriously have no idea how). A Sassy nature is used on this Ferrothorn seeing as how I have Skarmory to take physical hits, thus I decided to make Ferro more specially bulky.

    Ferrothorn's role is self-explanatory as well. Setting up rocks for the team is always a good start. From there, Ferrothorn can take on threats such as Salamence, which is cleanly OHKOed by Gyro Ball after a Dragon Dance boost. Being the special sponge of the team, Ferrothorn froms a formidable defensive core with Skarmory (and Politoed to a certain extent).

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit

    Banded Scizor. What is there to say? You can slap this Poke on pretty much any team there is and it will do its job extremely well. In this team, it acts as the team's backup Dragon type resist in case Ferrothorn or Skarmory is massively hurt or has fainted, as well as revenge killing with its priority Bullet Punch, scouting with U-turn or trapping the Lati twins with Pursuit. Obviously this moveset is universal on almost all Banded Scizors, just a sign of how effective it is.

    The EVs for this Scizor is probably my attempt at a customised spread. Seeing as Scizor is already so powerful without Attack investment, I decided to throw in SpDef EVs and max HP to allow Scizor to take weak Fire moves under the rain.

    Scizor, like Politoed, performs many roles. Whether it is scouting with U-turn, revenge killing with Bullet Punch or trapping with Pursuit, it cannot be stressed enough how important this Pokemon is. U-turn also works well with the hazards I set up, forcing switches.

    [​IMG]


    Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Naive Nature
    - Superpower
    - Hurricane
    - U-turn
    - Sleep Talk

    The star of the show. This thing is a massive threat. Massive. Tornadus-Incarnation was always one of my favourite pokemon to use under the rain in the BW metagame, as people tend to underestimate the power of STAB Hurricane under the rain. Therian forme Tornadus might have less Special Attack then its Incarnation forme, but makes up for it with a virtually nonexistent SR weakness, more bulk and the fantastic Regenerator. I changed to a Life orb set over a specs one due to ineffiency as I run Superpower as well. Superpower is used over Focus Blast to hit Tyranitar on the switch-in, as Focus Blast is a bad move. Hurricane is the obvious STAB, having perfect accuracy under the rain, good coverage and ridiculous power. The last 2 moves are mostly filler, but Sleep Talk has a niche on this set for being able to switch into Breloom's Spores and still be able to fire off massively powerful attacks.

    The EVs are self-explanatory. Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment on a Choice Specs set. There is really nothing much to be explained.

    Tornadus is simply a massive threat in the B2W2 metagame. It hits ridiculously hard while being ridiculously fast and having an awesome ability to round it off. It might be less powerful than Thundurus's Thunder, but at least nothing is immune to Hurricane. I hate letting Ground-types get free switch ins, and Tornadus has the bulk to live priority moves, unlike Thundurus. Hence my choice.

    [​IMG]


    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower

    Mamoswine is the last pokemon on this team. Despite it being all the more weak to Water under the rain, it has an important role to play. Mamoswine lets me revenge kill almost every new threat there is in Black and White 2, from Brelooms to Landoruses to Mences. Ice Shard, Icicle Crash and Earthquake are self-explanatory, but Icicle Spear might require some explanation. The only other 2 moves I would consider were Superpower and Stone Miss, er, I mean Stone Edge, but they really do not offer much at all. Icicle Spear, however, lets me break and KO Multiscale Dragonite and Gliscors that abuse Subtitutes that think they are safe against Ice Shard. Earthquake hits Steels hard, and Icicle Crash is just awesome.

    The EVs are also taken from the Mamoswine analysis. Max Attack and Speed are self-explanatory, and Adamant is the nature of choice, giving a power boost to Mamoswine's physical attacks.

    Mamoswine checks many Pokemon for this team that can be problematic, such as Jirachi and Scarfed Moxiemence, which became threatening with the release of the Outrage tutor. Despite having an added Water weakness under the rain Mamoswine works extremely well with Tornadus for its ability to absorb Electric types and destroy Steel types that threaten to wall Tornadus.

    Conclusion

    Where, there it is, my first attempt at a serious competitive team and my first post ever in these forums. I hope that I can receive some suggestions from you guys to help me improve the team. Just remember I am open to constructive feedback and criticism!

    Thanks for your time!

    Importable:

    Show Hide
    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Perish Song
    - Focus Blast

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball

    Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Rash Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Superpower
    - Hurricane
    - U-turn
    - Sleep Talk

    Skarmory @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird

    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Spear


    Changelogs:

    Show Hide
    Politoed:
    Set changed to Focus Blast/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Perish Song

    Skarmory:
    Item changed to Shed Shell

    Tornadus:
    Item changed to Life Orb
    Nature changed from Rash to Naive


    Testing (for my own references):

    Show Hide
    CB Dragonite over CB Scizor

    New moveset for Ferrothorn : Spikes/Protect/Leech Seed/Power Whip

    SR instead of Spikes for Skarmory

    Jirachi over Ferrothorn






    Threatlist coming soon.
  2. Zentrius

    Zentrius

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    This team looks really cool and lovely in my opinion, everything looks fine except for that Tornadus-T.

    You should consider changing it from Choice Specs to a Life Orb variant. You are running a Choice Specs, so I don't know why would you run Superpower on this set. If you are going to run Superpower, Life Orb would always be the best item you could run on Landorus-T. You could use Heat Wave over Sleep Talk, but it's pretty dumb to use it on a rain team, I always use Hidden Power Ice to guaranteed the KO on Dragonite after rocks.

    Also, you could remove Icicle Crash and use Superpower for more coverage on your Mamoswine, Icicle Spear would always do it's job at doing damage, and can even deal more than Icicle Crash sometimes.

    Other than that, this team looks pretty awesome. Good Luck!
  3. Lixion

    Lixion

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Thanks for the input Zentrius!

    I completely agree with using Life Orb, my reasoning for using specs when i first made the team was my fear of missing out on a few OHKOes. I was considering switchin it to Life Orb to. Also, I would rather have Sleep Talk over HP Ice, as i really cannot afford any of my team being useless due to sleep.

    As for Superpower on Mamoswine, i think having 3 Superpower users is a little overkill. Icicle Crash is also more reliable than Icicle Spear thus I'd prefer to keep it that way.
  4. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    Hey solid team! I noticed that you have too many steel types in your team making it weak to Magnezone. I'd suggest a Deoxys-D over Ferrothorn since they pretty much perform the same role while also alleviating your Magnezone weakness. It's also a good check to one of the major threats to your team, Terrakion.

    Here's the set:

    Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Calm
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Toxic / Night Shade


    Here's the thing: No 4x Fire weakness and no 2x Fighting weakness while also an effective wall. Toxic over Night Shade since Deo-D is pretty fast for a wall so you don't have to worry about getting Taunted. Also, Deo-D has a good synergy with Skarmory being able to take special hits like a bawse while not being physically weak like the blobs. The EVs could be changed depending on how you like it.
  5. TomX159

    TomX159

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Pretty cool rain team 'ya got here! I started competitive 5th Gen about 3 months ago so we're about in the same boat (so forgive me if I say something stupid :p).

    Anyways, I agree with pwnage77 that there is a significant weakness to Magnezone/Magneton as they can potentially wipe out half of your team. The rain does help a bit because HP Fire from Magnezone does 39%-46% to your Ferrothorn (and a little less from Scarf Magneton). I'd suggest running Spikes | Leech Seed | Protect | Gyro Ball/Power Whip on Ferrothorn because after Leech Seed and Protect Ferrothorn can put down as many Spikes as possible if it's trapped by Magnezone/Magneton. Personally I prefer Power Whip > Gyro Ball because of the more PP for stalling and in case a Pressure poke comes in to drain Gyro Ball's 8 PP. I suggest Spikes on Ferrothorn because I believe they are easier to set up than with Skarmory especially with the Leech Seed/Protect shenanagains that force switches. That would mean putting Stealth Rock on Skarmory which isn't a bad idea because then you don't have to set up a bunch of Spikes and then get to Whirlwinding. You can just put up Rocks and immediately Whirlwind (if Ferrothorn gets Spikes in earlier).

    I think you should go with a CB Dragonite over your CB Scizor to limit what Magnezone/Magneton can do while still boasting massive attack with a priority move plus a rain boosted Waterfall as a bonus. Plus Dragonite has great bulk, especially if you can get it in with Mulitscale intact. I should also point out here that you have a HUGE Volcarona weakness. It can KO almost your entire team so Dragonite helps patch that up and fire off a CB Extremespeed in return. I don't think you really have to worry about the Lati's too much as you have specially defensive Ferrothorn to check them and Scarf IceBeam on Politoed and an IceShard on Mamoswine to damage them. Here's the Dragonite set:

    Dragonite @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage

    Some other nitpicks are that I agree with running Perish Song on Politoed over Focus Blast b/c a rain boosted Hydro Pump will do a lot to Tyranitar anyways. I also suggest changing Tornadus-T's item to Life Orb and change his nature to Hasty/Naive to outspeed Timid Alakazams. I also think that you should run "Stone Miss" (I use Rock Slide on a lot of my pokes now lol) on Mamoswine over one of the Icicle moves.

    I hope this helped!
  6. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    510
    Hi there!

    This is a solid rain team, Scizor and Mamoswine easily revenging common threats which in conjunction with your hazards can cause a lot of KOs. One thing I do see about this team is how weak you are to opposing Tornadus. It can keep switching in due to Regenerator and the Specs Variant 2HKOs your entire team while outspeeding everything on your team, including your Scarf Politoed. While you may have ways to deal with Tornadus via Scizor and Mamoswine by means of priority, you still need a free switch in against Tornadus, meaning something else will be taking a hit. This is especially important considering you lack a spinner, so everytime you do switch in Scizor or Mamoswine to revenge Tornadus, you will be taking even more hazard damage. To help with this weakness, I think you should try out a Specially Defensive Jirachi over your current Ferrothorn. While it may seem like a generic replacement to help against Tornadus, it really does a lot for your team. It can sponge the hits of all Tornadus variants, and use Wish to restore the damage Tornadus has done. Jirachi can also pass big Wishes to other members of your team, most notably Scizor and Mamoswine, as Scizor will be U-Turning out a lot and Mamoswine will be racking up Life Orb damage. Jirachi also provides you with Stealth Rock, just like Ferrothorn does, however Jirachi also provides you with potential paralysis support from Body Slam, making your opponent a lot easier to revenge for Politoed, Scizor and Mamoswine.

    As for Mamoswine, I think your set is a little inefficient, three Ice type moves on the same set heavily limits your coverage. I do think you should try out Superpower > Icicle Spear. Superpower gives you additional coverage, letting you hit Air Balloon Heatran, Air Balloon Magnezone, Rotom as well as hitting Ferrothorn harder which can be vital as Ferrothorn can take a couple of hits from Mamoswine. While Icicle Spear does allow you to deal with Dragonite and Gliscor more reliably, neither will stay in fearing the potential Ice Shard. Not to mention Skarmory also reliably deals with both, barring Gliscor that runs Taunt.

    For a team with a lot of Steel types, you may find that you have troubles with Magnezone and Magneton. They can trap and KO every member on your team when Rain is not up, not to mention Scarf Magneton also outspeeds everything including your Tornadus and Scarf Politoed. While they may not seem problematic, it can be hard to win a match when your main physical or special wall has been trapped. I think you should test Shed Shell > Leftovers on Skarmory. Shed Shell allows you to escape from the aforementioned Pokemon, preserving your Skarmory. The lack of residual recovery every turn is barely noticeable when your Skarmory already has Roost.

    Cool team, hope I helped!

    Jirachi (open)
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Body Slam / U-Turn
  7. Lixion

    Lixion

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Wow, thanks for the rates guys!

    @ThatsMyLatios

    You're right. No point having HP Grass, and I obviously wouldn't stay in on any other Water Absorbers anyway.

    @pwnage77

    Hey! Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe it's just me, but I think Ferrothorn pulls the job better in the end. The glaring Magnezone weakness is also apparent to me. However after testing out Deoxys-D I think it's base HP is a little low to take strong hits, so for now I am keeping it that way. Thanks for the suggestion though.

    @TomX159

    I agree on the Volcarona weakness, maybe it's just me not having seen many Volcarona's in my matches (in fact none so far with this team). I'll probably try out CB Nite seeing as it performs the same jobs. Thanks!

    @Jimbon

    The original version of this team (with the Thundurus) had me using an exact same Jirachi set, which I swapped out in favour of Ferrothorn due to the fact that I had nothing to switch into Starmie once Jirachi was gone. But I agree that opposing Tornadus are extremely threatening. I'll test out Jirachi again.

    As for the Superpower change, yeah, I should probably add more coverage on the Mamoswine. A little oversight from my part.

    As for Shed Shell, I already changed it haha.

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