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Annoying Mushrooms - OU RMT

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by acinod, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. acinod


    Aug 27, 2007


    Ever since I begun competitive battling when DP came out, Breloom, mainly the annoying SubSeed set, has always been a nuisance for my teams. Once it was behind a Substitute, it just slowly stalls my team out with Leech Seed or Focus Punch. Basically, if I was against an experienced Breloom player and my team didn't have Celebi or a Ghost type that can afford to be Leech Seeded, I had lost the game. So after months of watching my team fall one by one to Breloom, I have finally come to a conclusion - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

    So I decided to make a team centered around SubSeeding Breloom. Each team member not only has good synergy between each other, they are also designed to make Breloom's life easier; whether it be defeating its counters, or allowing it to switch in more easily. Tyranitar is one of the most key players in my team's strategy as it's job is to bring down the Psychic and Ghost types that can counter Breloom. Along with Tyranitar, I have also paired Machamp and Heatran together (inspired by the Smog Issue 9) as they have amazing lead synergy as well as Bulky DD Gyarados together with Specs Jolteon. Without further ado...

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Type Chart (open)

    Machamp @ Lum Berry
    Ability | No Guard
    EVs: 240 HP / 244 Atk / 16 SpD / 8 Spe
    Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    - DynamicPunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Payback
    - Bullet Punch

    Set Analysis:
    Machamp's lead usage in OU has risen and this is argurably due to the fact that it is one of the best anti-leads in the current metagame. Almost every lead is beaten with the exception of Metagross and Offensive Jirachi. With this in mind, Heatran is a great partner to Anti-Lead Machamp because it is able to beat both Metagross and Jirachi as well as being able to setup Stealth Rock once Machamp has beaten the opponent's lead.

    EVs, Nature and Moveset:
    The HP and SpD EVs allow Machamp to survive a Psychic from Naive/Timid Azelf and the extra 8 Spe EVs allow Machamp to outpace enemy Machamp and Blissey with no speed investment.

    The choice between Ice Punch and Stone Edge is a dilemma; I need Ice Punch for Gliscor but also Stone Edge for Gyarados. However, considering that Breloom will have more trouble with Gliscor than Gyarados, I believe Ice Punch is a better choice.

    Here is a list taken from the Lead Synergy article in Issue #9 of the Smog that shows how Machamp fares against the top current OU leads:
    OU Lead Matchups (open)

    Heatran @ Shuca Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Explosion/Dragon Pulse
    - Stealth Rock

    Set Analysis:
    Heatran pairs along extremely well with lead Machamp as it can not only come in on Meteor Mash or Iron Head but can also come in on Will-O-Wisp or Toxic which can cripple Machamp. Heatran also helps the team by setting up the ever-crucial Stealth Rock as well as being a great partner for Breloom as it resists all its weaknesses and can come in on Celebi which can stop Breloom in its tracks.

    EVs, Nature and Moveset:
    Max Speed to speed tie with other Heatrans and Max SpA EVs for more power. Naive nature so Explosion doesn't lose power.
    However, I am thinking of switching Explosion for Dragon Pulse as I have never used Explosion and Dragon Pulse allows me to beat Salamence if I still have my Shuca Berry and at least 86% health to survive one Earthquake. Also most DDMence I've faced will Dragon Dance, predicting I don't have Dragon Pulse and would switch. On the other hand, if I lose Explosion, I cannot explode on Gyarados as they usually Dragon Dance on the turn after they switch in.

    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability | Sand Stream
    EVs | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Set Analysis:
    Tyranitar is my first Choice user and it is the ever-common ScarfTar. ScarfTar allows me to beat Breloom's counters such as Psychic and Ghost types, Salamence and Tentacruel. I have a chance to beat Celebi however if it is at full HP, I cannot OKHO it and I am 2HKO by Grass Knot. My only chance to beat Celebi with ScarfTar is to 2HKO it with Crunch.

    EVs, Nature and Moveset:
    I am really tempted to change this to a specially defensive Tyranitar with Payback just so I have a better chance of beating Celebi but then I lose to ability to outpace other threats such as Infernape and Lucario.
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Ability | Intimidate
    EVs | 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Taunt
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce

    Set Analysis:
    I use to run a CBGyara over this because Payback is a really surprising move that does loads of damage to common switch-ins that counter Breloom and Gyarados (eg. Rotom-A and Celebi). However after trying this set out, it has really got me through many tough situations. After 1 DD, I am able to beat offensive variants of Celebi. After 2 DDs, I can bring Defensive Celebi down as well. Ironically, my own Breloom team use to be weak to an opposing Breloom; however, after exchanging CBGyara for Bulky Gyara, I am able to beat SubSeed Breloom by using Taunt, though Focus Punch still does around 30%.

    EVs, Nature and Moveset:
    EVs are taken from the analysis:
    Bounce is a great attack that I have been using on another team with Offensive DDGyara but it also works great on Bulky DDGyara. Taunt is awesome move that lets me setup on walls that cannot hurt me.
    Jolteon @ Choice Specs
    Ability | Volt Absorb
    EVs | 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Baton Pass

    Set Analysis:
    My other Choice user is none other than Specs Jolteon. Specs Jolteon makes a solid partner with Gyarados as Gyarados lures in Electric-type attacks for it to recover health and it can also scare off Bulky Waters with STAB Thunderbolt. Considering Rotom-A here as I am lacking a Ghost type but right now, Jolteon is doing its job just fine.

    EVs, Nature and Moveset:
    Shadow Ball is mainly for coverage however I am considering using Signal Beam over it just to beat Celebi (You can probably tell that I am really concerned with this thing), but then I'll lose coverage over Rotom-A and other types. Hidden Power Ice is used over Hidden Power Grass as is is needed to beat Gliscor and I can already handle Swampert with Breloom and Gyarados. Baton Pass is highly useful as it allows Jolteon to use its speed to scout what the enemy will do; most of the time it allows me to bring in Breloom/Gyarados into the common Earthquake or lets me switch to another counter, according to the situation, for instance Baton Passing to Breloom into the common switch-in Blissey.

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Ability | Poison Heal
    EVs | 236 HP / 248 Def / 24 Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Spore
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Focus Punch

    Set Analysis:
    Finally we arrive to what this team is all about - SubSeed Breloom. Honestly the power Breloom has behind a Substitute is insane. There have been a couple of times where Breloom is my last Pokemon against 2-3 others and it brings down the entire team all by itself.

    EVs, Nature and Moveset:
    236 HP EVs provide maximum recovery from Poison Heal and 24 Speed is required to outrun Skarmory. The remaining EVs are dumped into Defence to minimize damage taken.

    The Plan:
    The idea is to bring Breloom in on a weak resisted move (such Tyranitar's STABs or Mixpert's Earthquake) or a status move (most likely from Blissey). After switching in, Breloom will use Substitute as your opponent switches what they think will best beat Breloom. If they switch in Celebi or a Ghost-type with Taunt/Substitute, then I will switch out to Tyranitar as Celebi will mostly likely attack and Ghost-types will obviously Taunt/Substitute. If the Ghost-type didn't Taunt/Substitute and attacked instead, it is highly likely that it does not carry Taunt/Substitute and I can apply this knowledge the next time they switch it into Breloom. On the other hand, if the Pokemon they switch in is not Celebi or a Ghost-type with Taunt/Substitute, then I can either Focus Punch, Spore or Leech Seed. I use Focus Punch if they bring in a fast taunter (Gliscor/Crobat) or a weak Pokemon that I know I can OHKO. If they bring in a wall that can take a Focus Punch or two, I will Leech Seed to stall it out. Spore is only to be used in desperate times when I need the few extra turns to set up a Substitute and Leech Seed or they do not get OHKOed by Focus Punch but can OHKO me back (eg. Skarmory and Salamence).
    Previous Team Members (open)

    Gyarados @ Choice Band
    Ability | Intimidate
    EVs | 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Waterfall
    - Payback
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Set Analysis:
    My next Choice user is almost non-existant in the current metagame but has been surprisingly effective. Choice Band Gyarados surprises a lot of switch-ins with a STAB Waterfall from a 575 Attack stat. Here are some damage calculations to show just how powerful Choice Band Gyarados is:

    Damage Calculations

    • Waterfall vs. 4 HP neutral nature Rotom-A: 81.8% - 96.7%
    • Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 120 Def +Defense nature Rotom-A: 52.6% - 62.5%
    • Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Def +Defense nature Rotom-A: 47.4% - 56.3%
    • Aqua Tail vs. 4 HP neutral nature Rotom-A: 91.7% - 100%
    • Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 120 Def +Defense nature Rotom-A: 59.2% - 70.1%
    • Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252 Def +Defense nature Rotom-A: 53.3% - 63.2%
    • Payback vs. 4 HP neutral nature Rotom-A switching in: 100%
    • Payback vs. 252 HP / 120 Def +Defense nature Rotom-A switching in: 88.2% - 100%
    • Payback vs. 252 HP / 252 Def +Defense nature Rotom-A switching in: 78.9% - 93.4%
    • Payback vs. 252 HP / 220 Def +Defense nature Celebi switching in: 63.9% - 75.2%
    • Payback vs. 136 HP / 156 Def neutral nature Starmie switching in: 100%
    Payback is a rarely seen move but it able to surprise Rotom-A since it OHKOs neutral nature Rotom-A and has a chance to OHKO defensive variants after SR. However, the most important role Gyarados plays is to help Breloom lure out Celebi and surprise it with a SE Payback.

    EVs, Nature and Moveset:
    The analysis suggests 192 Speed EVs to outspeed Defensive Celebi, though wouldn't I want to be slower in order to maximize Payback's damage and deliver a 2HKO if it switches in? I am currently considering Ice Fang over Earthquake as my team, ironically, has trouble against Breloom.

    I decided to create a team around Breloom after getting owned by it everytime.
    Breloom's biggest counters are Psychic types like Celebi and Ghost types with Taunt/Substitute. A nice solution to both of these types is ScarfTar who is able to deliver a life-ending Crunch if they stay in, or Pursuit if they switch out.
    Scizor was becoming a problem with U-Turn breaking Breloom's Substitutes and allowing it to switch in a counter. As usual, I decided to utilize Magnezone for the sole purpose of removing Scizor.

    I still wasn't sure about beating Celebi with Tyranitar as ScarfTar is unable to OHKO Celebi and Celebi's Grass Knot can 2HKO ScarfTar. So I decided to use Gyarados as a lure for Celebi and giving it Choice Band and Payback to beat it.

    Stealth Rock is useful on every team but is it especially important on a team with Breloom because Breloom causes a lot of switches and Stealth Rock can weaken some of its counters. I decided Lead Heatran was the best Pokemon to fill this role as it can not only setup Stealth Rock, it can also come in on many of Breloom's counters such as Celebi.
    I decided Machamp was a better lead because Heatran was not going to get Stealth Rock safely up all the time if it was leading because it can be beaten by many other leads. By leading with Machamp, I can beat opposing leads and then bring Heatran in afterwards to setup Stealth Rock. Machamp is also my favourite lead in the OU metagame at the moment so it just had to be on my team.
    After several games of testing, I noticed that Magnezone had been doing nothing and it could never really trap Scizor because Scizor was always using U-Turn as it had no reason to use any other attacks against my team. I also started having a few troubles with Gyarados and Salamence and my team was kind of slow and lacked a revenge killer (ScarfTar is surprisingly slow). So I decided to exchange Magnezone for Specs Jolteon which paired up extremely well with Choice Band Gyarados.

    I tried out Bulky DD Gyarados over my initial CB set and it has worked really well for me. Bounce is capable of beating Celebi after 2 DDs but I am still considering whether to go Bulky or Offensive Gyarados.


    This team has had great success, as most of the time my opponent's team was unprepared for Breloom and would easily crumble when I sent him out. However it is not without flaws; I find myself losing a few times to DDMence. I would like to say thank you for taking the time to read my team and I hope you enjoyed it. Feel free to rate my team as that would be greatly appreciated. Just remember to read this before rating.

    *P.S. Threat List on the next post

  2. acinod


    Aug 27, 2007
    Threat List

    Threat List's format taken from Vashta's RMT Threat List
    Blue indicates neutrality; it is a relatively easy Pokémon to handle.

    indicates that the Pokémon does cause switching and stimulates more thought processes of possible scenarios than usual.

    indicates a cause for serious concern as it has the ability to sweep / cause damage to half of my team.​


    [​IMG]| Aerodactyl:

    • Leads: Machamp can beat Aerodactyl with DynamicPunch + Bullet Punch.
    [​IMG]| Alakazam :

    • Encore Leads: Switch out to Tyranitar and hope Focus Blast misses next turn (if it even has it). Pursuit OHKOs even after Reflect if it decides to switch out.

    • Generic Sweeper: I hate these when they come out late game. I usually bring in Tyranitar and pray that Focus Blast misses so I can end its life with Pursuit. Otherwise I have Jolteon to revenge kill.
    [​IMG]| Azelf :

    • Leads:Machamp can beat Azelf by using Payback + Bullet Punch. If Azelf chooses to attack, Machamp can always survive a Timid unboosted Psychic while preventing Azelf from getting Stealth Rock up. If Azelf is Dual Screen, Machamp still has a chance to 2HKO with Payback.

    • Sweepers: Tyranitar can easily outspeed it and kill it with Crunch/Pursuit.
    [​IMG]| Breloom :

    • Leads: These are usually Choice Scarf leads. Lum Berry wakes me up if it decides to Spore and I can beat it with Dynamic Punch+Bullet Punch.

    • Substitute: My own Breloom might win the Focus Punching battle but Gyarados can also Taunt it.
    [​IMG]| Dragonite :

    • Dragon Dance: Jolteon can revenge kill with Hidden Power Ice. Breloom is can switch in as it is 2HKO by +1 Dragon Claw, Spore it and then start setting up; most DDNite's don't usually carry a Fire attack.

    • Heal Bell + Dragon Dance: Breloom can come in and beat it with a combination of all 4 of its attacks. Jolteon can also outspeed and OHKO Dragonite with HP Ice if it has been previously weakened (usually by SR).

    • Leads: Machamp can survive anything except a CH and OHKO with Ice Punch.
    [​IMG]| Dugtrio :

    • Choice Band / Scarf: It might able to revenge kill Pokemon most of my team, but it allows me to setup with Breloom or Gyarados.
    [​IMG]| Electivire :

    • Generic Sweeper: These are annoying if they come into Jolteon's TBolt. Breloom can survive all of its attacks except Flamethrower but can sleep it and start setting up. If Machamp is still alive, it can take a hit and Dynamic Punch back. Jolteon can revenge kill a weakened Electivire with Shadow Ball.
    [​IMG]| Empoleon :

    • Lead: Machamp can survive a Hydro Pump and beat it with Dynamic Punch+Bullet Punch. If Empoleon carries a Chople Berry, I can hope for confusion hax or Hydro Pump misses and finish it off with another Dynamic Punch.

    • SubPetaya: Gyarados can come in and immediately Taunt it while Jolteon can revenge kill it. Breloom can sleep it if it doesn't have Ice Beam and cannot Sub. Machamp can also survive a hit and Dynamic Punch it.

    • Tank: Machamp can Dynamic Punch. Breloom can sleep it and setup. Tyranitar can Earthquake and Jolteon can TBolt.
    [​IMG]| Flygon :

    • Choiced users: God these are annoying. Breloom behind a Sub can Focus Punch, which has a chance to OHKO. Machamp can usually take a hit and Ice Punch for the OHKO. If they are locked in Flamethrower/Earthquake, I can bring in Gyarados and start setting up.
    [​IMG]| Gengar :

    • Substitute: These usually come into Breloom and setup a Substitute. The plan is to immediately sacrifice Jolteon by bringing it in and breaking the Sub with Shadow Ball. After Jolteon faints, I can bring in Tyranitar and Pursuit a naked Gengar.

    • Life Orb: Tyranitar can come in and Pursuit it if I think it won't Focus Blast.

    • Choiced user: These are easy, Tyranitar can come in on everything except Focus Blast and OHKO with Pursuit. If it is locked into Focus Blast, I can bring Gyarados in and proceed to setup.
    [​IMG]| Gyarados :

    • Dragon Dance: Jolteon can come in and TBolt it to death. Breloom can come in on those without Taunt/Ice Fang and proceed to setup.

    • RestTalker: Jolteon can come in and eat it for breakfast with Thunderbolt. Breloom can also Leech Seed and start Focus Punching to slowly bring it down.
    [​IMG]| Heatran :

    • Choice Scarf: Gyarados can switch in a begin setting up. My own Heatran can survive an Earth Power and OHKO back with its own. Machamp can survive any attack and OHKO back with Dynamic Punch.

    • Choice Specs: Once again Gyarados can come in a start setting up. Tyranitar can outspeed it and OHKO with Earthquake.

    • Life Orb: Gyarados comes in and sets up on it. My own Heatran can survive an Earth Power and OHKO it back with its own. Tyranitar can outspeed and Earthquake it.

    • SubToxic: Gyarados can Taunt and setup. Heatran can Earth Power.

    • Substitute + Torment: Gyarados deals with it easily, Taunt and setting up.
    | Heracross :

    • Choice users: Gyarados comes in on Megahorn/Close Combat and proceeds to setup. Breloom can beat those holding a Choice Scarf.
    | Infernape :

    • Special-based Mix: Gyarados can take its attacks and setups up on it.

    • Physical-based Mix: Gyarados can take anything but Stone Edge/Thunderbolt and can setup on it.

    • Choiced Mix: Gyarados can come in on anything but Stone Edge and setup.

    • Lead: Machamp can take any of Infernape's attacks and beat it with DynamicPunch + Bullet Punch. If Infernape chooses to Stealth Rock, Machamp will take minimal damage.

    • Nasty Plot: Jolteon can outspeed and OHKO with Thunderbolt while Gyarados can take anything but a +2 Grass Knot. Tyranitar can revenge kill by outspeeding and OHKO with Earthquake.
    [​IMG]| Jirachi :

    • Choiced users: Gyarados can come in on anything but an Electric attack and setup. Heatran can take most attacks as well and scare it away with Fire Blast/Earth Power.

    • Body Slam: Heatran can beat it as long as it isn't paralyzed. Breloom can also hope it doesn't get haxed by Iron Head and proceed to sleep it.

    • Calm Mind: If it has Psychic, Tyranitar can take it down with Earthquake. If it has Flash Cannon, Jolteon can eventually beat it with Thunderbolt.
    [​IMG]| Jolteon :

    • Choice Specs: My own Jolteon can come in on a Thunderbolt and predict the switch and use Thunderbolt. If it uses Shadow Ball, Tyranitar can come in and Pursuit it to death. Breloom can also come in and setup.

    • Life Orb: If Tyranitar finds a way to come in unharmed, it can beat it with any of its attacks. Otherwise, my own Specs Jolteon can come in on an electric attack and beat it.
    [​IMG]| Kingdra :

    • Dragon Dance: I have to switch Gyarados in immediately and Taunt it. If it Outrages, I can bring in Heatran and Earth Power+Explosion to beat it behind a Sub.

    • Rain Dance: Rain Dance can be a problem for my team if I do not keep Tyranitar healthy. I can also Bounce with Gyarados to stall out Rain and hope for Paralysis.
    [​IMG]| Lucario :

    • Swords Dance: Gyarados can beat it if it doesn't have Stone Edge. Otherwise Tyranitar can revenge kill it with Earthquake.

    • Choice Specs: Gyarados can take most hits and proceed to setup.
    [​IMG]| Machamp :

    • Sub + 3 attacks:These can be problematic. I just need to hope I still have my own Machamp alive to outspeed and Dynamic Punch it. Otherwise I may need to sacrifice a Pokemon to beat this.

    • Lead: My Machamp runs extra speed EVs to outspeed the standard lead Machamp and can 2HKO with Dynamic Punch.
    [​IMG]| Magnezone :

    • Choice Scarf: These are pretty easy to beat if they are locked into an Electric attack as Breloom can come in and setup.

    • Steel Killer: Well the only Steel I have on my team is Heatran but Heatran can OHKO with Earth Power so these aren't really a problem.
    [​IMG]| Mamoswine :

    • Endeavor Lead: Machamp can beat it with Dynamic Punch+Bullet Punch.

    • Generic Sweeper: Gyarados/Breloom can come in on anything but Stone Edge/ Ice Fang or Ice Shard respectively and proceed to setup.
    [​IMG]| Metagross :

    • Lead: Metagross will usually Meteor Mash for the 2HKO while not caring about confusion, due to Lum Berry. It is best to switch to Heatran to take the Meteor Mash. If Metagross has a Lum Berry it is at Heatran's mercy, and Heatran can either attack or get up Stealth Rock.

    • Tank: Basically setup fodder for Breloom/Gyarados.

    • AgiliGross: If it doesn't have Thunder Punch, Gyarados can beat it. Otherwise it won't have Ice Punch which allows Breloom to beat it.
    [​IMG]| Porygon-Z :

    • Choiced / Generic Sweeper: Jolteon/Tyranitar outspeed and kill it with Thunderbolt/Stone Edge respectively.
    [​IMG]| Rhyperior :

    • SU(B)PERIOR: Breloom outspeeds and beats it with Substitute and Focus Punch to break its Sub and then Leech Seed it. Gyarados can Waterfall to kill weakened versions without a Sub.

    • Trick Room: Breloom can take a hit and put it to sleep or Leech Seed it. Machamp can take a hit and hope for some confusion hax with Dynamic Punch. Trick Room doesn't last forever so I can usually stall it out.
    [​IMG]| Salamence :

    • Mixed Salamence: Tyranitar can revenge kill with Stone Edge and so can Jolteon. Gyarados can take all of its attacks and setup a Dragon Dance.

    • Dragon Dance: If it gets a Dragon Dance up, I will need to sacrifice 1-2 Pokemon to bring it down. Usually I would sacrifice Gyarados and bait Salamence to Outrage, then send out Heatran and Explode to take it out.
    [​IMG]| Scizor :

    • Choice Band: Gyarados can setup on all of its attacks and Heatran can take a Bullet Punch/U-Turn.

    • Swords Dance: Gyarados can force it out and Heatran can beat it if it doesn't have Brick Break.
    [​IMG]| Starmie :

    • Defensive: Tyranitar can come in on anything but a Hydro Pump and beat it with Crunch/Pursuit.

    • Life Orb: Tyranitar can come in on anything but a Hydro Pump and beat it with Crunch/Pursuit.

    • Scarf Leads: Payback for the OHKO, but it'll usually switch out anyway.
    [​IMG]| Togekiss :

    • ParaFlinch: Jolteon can switch in and OHKO max HP / max Special Defense Calm Togekiss 80% of the time, factoring in Stealth Rock. Gyarados can Taunt it so it can't Thunder Wave and start setting up.

    • Choice Scarf Lead: Jolteon can take the inevitable Air Slash and proceed to Baton Pass as Togekiss usually switches out.

    • Nasty Plot: Tyranitar and Jolteon can come in as it Nasty Plots and then OHKO with Stone Edge or Thunderbolt.
    [​IMG]| Tyranitar :

    • Choice Band: Setup fodder for Breloom.

    • Choice Scarf: Setup fodder for Breloom.

    • Dragon Dance: Setup fodder for Breloom unless it has Fire Punch. In which case, Tyranitar or Machamp can beat it.

    • TyraniBoah: Machamp can take its attacks and beat it with Dynamic Punch. Gyarados can beat it if it doesn't have Thunderbolt.
    [​IMG]| Weavile :

    • Lead: I won't attack with Machamp, fearing Counter, so I'll switch to Heatran to scare it away and setup rocks in the process.

    • Generic Sweeper: Who even uses Weavile now a days? Anyway, Gyarados can take an attack or two and beat it with Waterfall/Bounce. Machamp can take its attacks and beat it with Dynamic Punch/Bullet Punch. Jolteon can also revenge kill with Thunderbolt.
    [​IMG]| Yanmega :

    • Lead: Machamp can survive an Air Slash and hope it doesn't get flinched so it can use Ice Punch and then Bullet Punch to finish it off. If I get flinched, then I switch straight to Heatran and scare it away.

    • Generic Sweeper: These are usually at half HP when they switch in due to SR. Tyranitar and Jolteon can easily outspeed and KO the weak bug.


    [​IMG] | Blissey :

    • Generic Wall: Setup fodder for Breloom and Gyarados. Most of the time I go to Jolteon, predicting the T-Wave and then Baton Pass to Breloom as Blissey Seismic Tosses.
    [​IMG] | Bronzong :

    • Standard Wall: Another setup fodder for Breloom and also Gyarados. Machamp can also piss it off with Dynamic Punch.
    [​IMG] | Celebi :

    • Standard Wall: God I hate Celebi. I usually win the game after I beat these. If it comes into Gyarados as it DDs, I will Taunt, hoping it would T-Wave. If that occurs, then the game is usually over as I would DD a 2nd time and Bounce will OHKO Celebi. However, if Celebi decides to go for the 2HKO on Gyarados with Grass Knot as I DD, my best option would be to Bounce. If Bounce hits, Celebi will finish me off with Grass Knot but now it is vulnerable to Tyranitar's Pursuit.
    [​IMG] | Cresselia :

    • Standard Wall: Setup fodder for Gyarados and Breloom.

    • Psycho Shift/Flame Orb: Breloom can come in if is already poisoned. I haven't tried it yet but I think Heatran can take the Flame Orb as I can't be burnt.
    | Donphan :

    • Standard Wall: Setup fodder for Breloom and maybe Gyarados if it doesn't have Stone Edge. Machamp can also 2HKO with Dynamic Punch.
    [​IMG] | Forretress :

    • Standard Spiker: More setup fodder for Breloom and Gyarados. Heatran can also scare it away with Fire Blast.
    [​IMG] | Gliscor :

    • Standard Wall/Stall-breaker: I can stall it out with Breloom if it doesn't have Aerial Ace. Machamp can also Ice Punch it if it thinks I don't have it. Jolteon can also HP Ice for the kill.

    • Baton Pass: Machamp can Ice Punch. Jolteon can HP Ice. Breloom can beat it if it doesn't have Taunt. Most of the time, Gliscor will Agility and then Baton Pass to something else.
    [​IMG] | Hippowdon :

    • Standard Wall: Machamp can annoy it with Dynamic Punch and then Ice Punch. Breloom and Gyarados can both setup easily on it.
    [​IMG] | Skarmory :

    • Standard Wall/Spiker: Heatran/Jolteon can scare it away with Thunderbolt. Breloom can outspeed and Spore it before it can Brave Bird/Taunt. Gyarados can also easily setup up on Skarmory.
    [​IMG] | Snorlax :

    • Standard Wall: Setup fodder for Breloom. Machamp can also beat it with Dynamic Punch.
    [​IMG] | Suicune:

    • Calm Mind Tank: My initial switch in is Jolteon as I can OHKO if it does not Calm Mind or survive the Surf and 2HKO with Thunderbolt. If it doesn't have Ice Beam, Breloom can setup on it. If it doesn't have HP Electric, Gyarados can setup on it.
    [​IMG] | Swampert :

    • Standard Tank: Setup fodder for Gyarados and Breloom. Machamp can also beat Swampert with Dynamic Punch.

    • CursePert: Setup fodder for Gyarados and Breloom. Machamp has a chance to beat it through confusion hax.
    [​IMG] | Tentacruel :

    • Generic Wall: Tyranitar/Jolteon can OHKO with Earthquake/Thunderbolt while Gyarados can setup on those without HP Electric. Breloom can also setup if it lacks Ice Beam/Sludge Bomb.
    [​IMG] | Vaporeon :

    • Generic Wall: Jolteon can OHKO with Thunderbolt. Gyarados can easily setup on those without HP Electric and Breloom can setup on those without Ice Beam.
    [​IMG] | Zapdos :

    • Generic Wall: Jolteon eats Electric attacks for lunch and can hit Zapdos with a powerful Thunderbolt. Breloom can beat those without Heat Wave and Tyranitar can scare it off with Stone Edge.

    • SubToxic: Heatran and Breloom can switch into a Toxic and Breloom can then proceed to setup on Zapdos.
  3. Shizzle


    Mar 11, 2009
    Looks like a very good team, although there probably are some minor issues.

    First thing that comes to mind, is having 3 Choice users can be rather problematic, unless you are running a U-Turn duo, such as Flygon and Jirachi, who have great synergy.

    In particular, I am unsure about Gyarados, I mean without a Rapid Spinner [not that you need one!], he won't be able to keep switching in and out, and he will lose his ability to wall things like SDLucario and SDScizor after 2-3 switch ins. You could possibly run this set, which is basically the same set as yours, but yeah.

    Gyarados @ Leftovers [possibly Life Orb or Lum Berry]
    Adamant - Intimidate
    EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Waterfall
    ~ Bounce
    I am not kidding, Bounce wrecks havoc! Literally no one expects it, and you get an extra turn of Leftoves recovery. Celebi's usually try to GK or Thunder Wave, as you Bounce, and they get owned pretty much. You could also go for a Dragon Dance / Substitute / Bounce / Waterfall, whatever works best. Using Bounce is not too hard to use, but you are always in control, and the 30% Paralysis is going to help Breloom against some faster pokes.

    Can't think of anything else really, looks like a great team :)
    Good luck!
  4. Itchni


    Jun 11, 2008
    I like your team, it has nice synergy and covers most threats, but there is one pokemon that does not compliment your team all too well. Tyranitar does get those nasty ghost and psychic pokemon out the the way, but sandstorm does not mix well with stalling breloom. Perhaps you could try out a pokemon like Metagross which resists psychic attacks aimed at breloom and then Ko's with pursuit. It also draws out ground attacks which breloom can come in on, and fire attacks which heatran can come in on, and gyarados can come in on both.

    If you did this it would be advisable to make gyarados Dragon dance version. He runs through much of the metagame and you would have multiple times to sweep with all of the resistances and immunities he has.

    Really well built team with an actual purpose and strategy 4.5/5
  5. -Lux-


    Jun 15, 2010
    Not a bad team, covers most commun OU sweepers but the 1 problem you face is the 3 choice users. I'd suggest getting rid of choice band gyarados for DD gyarados. and maybe make Tyranitar a mixscarf tar witch works surprisingly. other than that works perfectly.

    good luck
  6. acinod


    Aug 27, 2007
    Thank you for all the comments so far, I have taken the advice and exchanged CB Gyarados for Bulky DD Gyarados. After changing Gyarados' set, my team has worked a lot better and I have yet to lose a game with it.

    @Shizzles, I totally agree that Bounce Gyarados is awesome, I've been using it for ages. If you saw me battle at school a while ago, I was using Bounce on Gyarados and everyone laughed and thought I was noob. Until I OHKOed Aksel's Starmie and proceeded to sweep his team...hehehe...

    I have also finished writing up the Threats List on my second post. Hopefully, after including this, my team will be easier to rate. Keep the comments up as they are really helpful. Thanks!
  7. Nosferalto

    Nosferalto We're all gonna make it
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Sep 26, 2008
    Other than that glaring Dragon Dance Salamence weakness, I simply can't find other issues with this team except for the fact that you only have one Steel- type in the form of Heatran. The metagame these days is extremely centralised aroubd Dragon- types so you need at least two Steels to ''absorb'' those Outrages and Draco Meteors. Anyway, I feel like this is the kind of team where CB Scizor should be used over Scarf-TTar. The extra Speed that Tyranitar brings to the table is not needed since you already have a form of fast revenge killer with Jolteon on the team. Scizor functions similarly to Tyranitar, Pursuit trapping Ghost- and Psychic- types jsut like you originally wanted with Scarf-TTar. Just use Bullet Punch | Superpower | Pursuit | U-Turn with 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe. What Scizor brings to the table is an extra crucial Steel- type as well as a check to DD Salamence since it can deal upwards to 67% which means that you can effectively revenge kill it after it takes SR and one turn of Life Orb damage.

    I would like to suggest an alternative set that I have found to be very effective on Jolteon. It is the Charge Beam + LO set. You can switch between attacks which will grant you much more versatility. This set is much more dangerous since if you use Charge Beam once and get the boost you will have the same power as the Specs set boosted furthermore by Life Orb except you have the ability to switch between attacks. I would at least give this set a test and see how it goes.

    Solid team, gl.
  8. Karmah


    Apr 23, 2010
    Just a nitpick, but AgiliGross will give you a much harder time than you think. Not only will the majority have ThunderPunch, beating Gyarados, but Meteor Mash will KO Breloom, if it doesn't kill, Breloom can't do much to it besides leech seed if something else is asleep. But other than that, nice team.
  9. c.falcon-arrgh


    Sep 7, 2009
    machamp can't beat hippowdon leads too, just telling you as they're slowly being used more often. Standard hippowdon takes around 35% from machamp, which is a 4HKO counting leftovers, while hippowdon's EQ does around 47% to machamp which is a 2HKO in sandstorm. Hippowdon can also slack off the damage of dynamic punch, and if its lucky it can even get up a stealth rock before killing machamp, although if you're lucky as well you might be able to just confuse it to death before it can do anything. Its a bit about gambling, but if you rely on hax for everything then it means you can even beat metagross lead because it works in a similar fashion to hippowdon.
  10. royal flush

    royal flush in brazil rain
    is a Past WCoP Champion

    Mar 6, 2006
    Your team should really appreciate paralysis support. Porygon2 can fit well here imo, plus he can switch against DDMence. TWJirachi would also works, but it needs almost max defense.
    I'd use one of them instead of Jolteon or Tyranitar, since I really dislike the sandstorm damage on Breloom. Speaking about him, be careful about using Leech Seed because of the free turn for Gengar (I read your plan of sacrificing Joltty and finish with Ttar, but still...), Seed Bomb may not be the perfect way to hit the poltergeist, but can actually break his Substitute, is more effective against Gliscor, Rotom and other stuff, and fits better in a team without Spikes.
  11. acinod


    Aug 27, 2007
    Thanks for the suggestion on CB Scizor, as soon as you mentioned it I wondered why I never thought about using Scizor instead of Tyranitar. So I replaced Tyranitar with Scizor immediately but for some odd reason, I have not been winning games after the replacement. Many ghost types could not be removed due to Scizor being killed before he could even Pursuit and many Celebi's carried HP Fire, ending my Scizor's life. What Tyranitar was able to do secure the revenge kill on vulnerable Celebi, Gengar and Rotom-A after they had been weakened with a swift Pursuit. However Scizor was quite helpful in that it was able to revenge kill Salamence if it got a DD up, which would have been devastating to my team if I had Tyranitar instead.

    As for the Life Orb Jolteon set, I just don't like it. It doesn't have the sheer power that Specs Jolteon has immediately, for example, unable to OHKO Vaporeon with Thunderbolt. Charge Beam is also has that annoying 90% accuracy and does not always boost your attack while Life Orb slowly whittles your health down. Charge Beam also replaced Baton Pass which was really helpful in the past for scouting the enemy team and bringing in Breloom. As a result, I will be staying with the Specs Jolteon set.

    I agree that AgiliGross will be a threat to my team, luckily they are uncommon and the only one I've faced I was able to beat it with Breloom. As I have mentioned, Breloom's Spore is to be saved for a potent threat like this Agiligross. If Metagross comes into Breloom while it has it's Sub up, I will Leech Seed. If it uses Agility, I will Spore it as it is an Agiligross and can threaten my team. If it uses an attacking move, I will just keep using Substitute as I can stall it out with Leech Seed.

    Most Hippowdon leads I will just Dynamic Punch first just so I can confuse it and hope for some hax; I am not relying on hax, only using it to my advantage. After Dynamic Punch, I can send in Breloom or Gyarados to setup on Hippowdon as it will mostly likely switch.

    I have yet to try Porygon2/TWJirachi (probably over Jolteon) so I will get back to this suggestion afterwards. On the other hand, giving Breloom Seed Bomb was not quite effective as Leech Seed. I may be able to beat a few Pokemon in less turns but I sacrifice the ability to stall and heal with Leech Seed. This is also a team without Spikes because the few counters switching into Breloom are most likely immune to Spikes, eg. Salamence, Gyarados, Rotom-A, Gengar, etc.
  12. acinod


    Aug 27, 2007

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