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DPP LC Another EM Team?! Team Chess Peace [LC RMT]

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Elevator Music, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music 63194
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 25, 2008
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but pokemon is nothing like chess. Especially LC. But the nicknames are cute, so you guys are going to have to suck it up.

    Anyways, this is an LC team that I made with my friend, UltimaLink007, who wanted to learn about LC. He wanted to make a team with Dratini in it, so we decided to sort of base it around Dratini, by removing a lot of its checks and trying to include opportunities for it to set up within the team. Because this team was meant to help my friend get into LC, it's relatively straightforward, with little surprises (to those of you who know the kind of teams I post, this may be shocking; cue Skill Swap Celebi and Choice Scarf Gyarados). Even though Dratini wasn't actually sweeping all that much, the team was fantastic, quickly shooting me up the LC ladder to #1 (I am LEECH LIFE for any of the LC regulars that I haven't told/haven't been told) with a high of around 1680.

    I have actually never made any edits to this team other than correcting EVs (it was that good on its initial try... and this rarely happens to me in team building...). This can be taken in both a good way and a bad way. Since I have what I'd like to think it a damn good win record with this team, I'll take it in a good way.

    Team Chess Peace!
    Rook GK [​IMG]
    Kabuto ([​IMG]) @ Focus Sash
    Swift Swim | Adamant
    36 HP / 176 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Slide
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet

    This is probably the least "standard" and most gimmicky set on the team... and it really isn't even that much of a stretch. This lead is designed to take advantage of the newest fad of Snover leads, while still working well against other popular leads like Meowth and Houndour (and to a certain extent Diglett...).

    Adamant and max Speed hits 15 Speed, outrunning all non-Scarf Snover, as well as leads like Phanphy and most lead Houndour. Because of this, most of the time against lead Snover, Kabuto will just use Rock Slide, and that is the end of that. However, Kabuto also beats Scarf Snover (who is a bigger threat to Dratini in some ways), as they will stay in and use Energy Ball, expecting a OHKO on the common Oran Berry Kabuto lead that GK and Heysup popularized, only to watch their own lead die as well.

    Because it outspeeds Houndour, Kabuto beats it. It can beat lead Diglett, but this requires a Sucker Punch mindgame (in theory, I really haven't played many lead Diglett in a while...). Against lead Meowth/Aipom/other Fake Out users, while I can stay in, I usually go to Misdreavus as they lack SR and I value Focus Sash. Against Meowth in particular I do not do this often though, because LO Bite scares the fuck out of me and Misdreavus is vital to my team.

    Stealth Rock is always a helpful move, breaking Sashes and turning some 2HKOes into [possible] OHKOes. Rock Slide is necessary for Snover. Aqua Jet is priority which is always insanely useful in LC. I originally had Earth Power over Waterfall to help with Croagunk, but I never got to use it effectively, so I switched to Waterfall...

    Kabuto was named after GK because he helped popularize Kabuto as a lead. No, GK is not rook, I just ran out of chess pieces and he got shafted. :(
    Pawn Macle [​IMG]
    Stunky ([​IMG]) @ Oran Berry
    Aftermath | Brave
    252 HP / 176 Atk / 4 Spe / 32 SpAtk / 32 SpDef
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Explosion

    Stunky is here to help hard counter Misdreavus, as well as to take out ScarfGastly, one of the pokemon who is a great check to Dratini after a DD. I asked Ultima to choose between a more offensive LO variant or an Oran variant, and he chose the Oran, which I like because it helps the team with other special threats (random Grass-types/etc). Then we just ripped the EVs/nature from HeYsUp because... I'm lazy.

    Sucker Punch and Pursuit allow Stunky to do its job of killing Ghosts. Sucker Punch also is more priority for my team, increasing my team's ability to cope with opposing threats. HP [Ground] means no set up from Aron, who would be a problem with Head Smash, despite my two Aqua Jet users. Explosion is a last ditch move, but is still helpful against pokemon like Gligar, ensuring they won't be able to set up. Also, exploding against an opposing team's last pokemon is kinda fun.

    The one thing I dislike about Stunky is how easy it is for Gligar to come in on it, but I suppose I have to live with that, as it does its job better than anything else can. I have plenty of Gligar checks, so this can be worked around....

    I named Stunky after pawn macle because macle stinks like a Stunky, both figuratively and literally. And he is a pawn.
    ...Just kidding (<macle3). Macle uses a ScarfStunky that I find amusing, and when I think of Stunky I think of him... and once again, pawn was one of the last pieces left.

    Knight Vader [​IMG]
    Carvanha ([​IMG]) @ Life Orb
    Rough Skin | Jolly
    196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe / 36 SpDef
    - Substitute
    - Aqua Jet
    - Crunch
    - Zen Headbutt

    Carvanha is my team's other pokemon geared for sweeping. With its impressive Attack stat and not too shabby Speed (plus STAB Aqua Jet), it threatens quite a bit, and always ends up taking out at least one or two members of the opposing team. Hopefully Croagunk is dead before Carvanha comes out, but it doesn't have to be thanks to Substitute and Zen Headbutt. Carvanha has an HP IV of 0, making its HP stat 19. I figured LO doing only 1 HP of recoil was more helpful than 1 extra HP on Carvanha's Subs.

    Carvanha was also chosen to help draw random scarf Grass and Electric attacks, giving Dratini an opportunity to set up.

    Crunch is the attack of choice, seriously denting anything that doesn't resist it. Aqua Jet will pick off anything that is weak to it, with little exceptions. It also helps my team greatly against Gligar. Substitute is more helpful then one would imagine, allowing Carvanha to beat all Fighting-types that dare switchin with the mighty Zen Headbutt.

    Carvanha is named Knight Vader because... Vader showed me this set and I've been addicted to it ever since. And Vader is noble like a knight. :)
    Bishop Gennifer [​IMG]
    Chinchou ([​IMG]) @ Choice Scarf
    Volt Absorb | Timid
    132 Def / 220 Spe / 152 SpAtk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    I do not normally Scarf pokemon in LC. However, this team needed another revenge killer, one to help with problems the team would have like DD Dratini and SD Night Slash Gligar, Agility Chinchou, etc. We almost went with Agility Chinchou, but I am overall glad we did not. Chinchou is sort of a glue to my team... as you can see by my threat list, it holds back a lot of pokemon. It has a lot of key resistances for my team.

    We went with Timid for the extra speed, helping against Dratini and other things. Hydro Pump helps to make up for the lack in power, while we still retain a reliable STAB attack with Thunderbolt. Ice Beam hits Gligar (unless I'm feeling ballsy and want to use Hydro Pump) and Grass-types, while HP [Grass] is primarily for other Chinchou, but can be used against other weakened Water-types if I don't want to lock myself into Thunderbolt.

    The only "problem" with Chinchou is a problem that all Scarfers have; it is too easy for the opponent to set up on them. I have to be careful using Chinchou early in the match, lest a Dratini or some other damn pokemon sets up against me. This makes Chinchou the most "replaceable" member of my team in some ways...

    The extra defensive EVs are there to also help with Dratini. However, if it crits with ESpeed, I'm in a lot of trouble.

    I named Chinchou after Gen. Empoleon because Gen always uses a Scarf Chinchou. :D

    Queen HeYsUp [​IMG]
    Misdreavus ([​IMG]) @ Oran Berry
    Levitate | Timid
    196 HP / 36 Atk / 240 Spe
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Misdreavus is my only Ground-resist... and my only Fighting-resist. So yeah, she is very crucial to the team. That being said, I am very wary of sending her into Fighting-type pokemon (as they often carry Dark-type moves and spam them the first time they're out), and will often sac the 'mon I have in to let her get in safely.

    I guess she is technically also "not standard". We chose to use a more bulky Misdreavus to help against Gligar and Fighting pokemon. Thus, we maxed HP and Speed, and threw the leftover EVs in Atk to help power Shadow Sneak up a little bit. Will-o-wisp and Shadow Sneak are more important than either Sub or Nasty Plot on this set, as Will-o-wisp allows Misdreavus to beat Munchlax and stand a chance against Stunky, so she can actually be my Ground/Fighting-resist. Shadow Sneak is priority once again, and is very helpful against pokemon like Magby, Scarf Gligar, and just in general lategame. Shadow Ball and HP [Fighting] round out the set, giving Misdreavus the potential to deal lots of damage still.

    Misdreavus was named after Heysup, who popularized the use of Shadow Sneak on Misdreavus. Heysup was originally mad when he found out he was a girl on my team, but hey, the queen is the most powerful piece in chess... ;)

    King eric [​IMG]
    Dratini ([​IMG]) @ Life Orb
    Shed Skin | Adamant
    28 HP / 244 Atk / 196 Spe / 36 SpDef
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage
    - Extremespeed

    Dratini is the king. Once his checks are removed, Dratini has an easy time sweeping on paper. In practice, however, this is not always the case. Still, Dratini is a fantastic sweeper mid or late game, and is totally worth the team slot.

    Since my team lacks a sleep absorber, I usually go to Dratini with Sleep moves because of Shed Skin. I don't _have_ to do this though, and sometimes go to a weakened poke like Kabuto or something.

    Ultima and I went with 21 HP Dratini instead of 19 HP Dratini. I prefer the 'bulk' so I can at least get one attack in if I need to midgame... the choice is up to preference I suppose. I'm not sure whether Adamant or Jolly is better, but I went with Adamant for an increased damage output, though it is mostly irrelevant in many cases.

    Extremespeed is useful not only in lategame sweeping, but Dratini is one of my more powerful priority users, and thus is one of my better revenge killers.

    Dratini is named after eric the espeon because he is the king of LC. I originally named it King MAG, who in early early early LC popularized a mixed Dratini set (I always wanted him to call it MarTini back then...), but Magmortified is more of a god than a king... ^_^


    The team one last time:

    Yes, the "peace" is intentional...
  2. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music 63194
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 25, 2008
    Threat list

    Threat List:
    I actually just took all the pokemon from HeYsUp's threat list from The Trooper, and then added pretty pictures.

    Abra [​IMG] - Stunky is a good and reliable switchin. Misdreavus can hit it hard with Shadow Sneak, and it really gets dented hard from all the other priority as well.

    Aipom [​IMG] - Kabuto can beat it easy as a lead, and Misdreavus doesn't have much to fear either while hitting it with Burn of HP [Fighting].

    Anorith[​IMG]- Potentially kills one member per match against me... but it won't be doing any serious damage, thanks to Kabuto and Carvanha. I suppose Misdreavus is a "decent" switchin... though there isn't much reason to switch as most of my team can hurt it badly.

    Bagon [​IMG] - Not as much of a problem as Dratini thankfully. Chinchou can revenge kill it unless it has more than one DD. All my pokemon can really hit it hard regardless, so it won't be able to set up that easily... and if it does, it will quickly die to priority from Dratini/Misdreavus/Stunky.

    Bellsprout[​IMG]- I have to sacrifice something to sleep (usually Dratini or Kabuto). Dratini can take most attacks and hit back with Outrage/Espeed. Stunky works very well too.

    Bronzor [​IMG] - Most of my pokemon cannot hit Bronzor very hard, but it cannot hit them back that hard either... and SR is a non-issue for my team. I usually go to Misdreavus and WoW or Shadow Ball. Carvanha can take out weakened Bronzor quite nicely, and usually finds time to Sub against them.

    Buizel [​IMG] - Rain sweepers are annoying for me to play, but Buizel cannot do much to Chinchou. It is also worn down pretty easily by all the priority on my team. Dratini can Espeed it when weakened for the KO, while Aqua Jet is NVE against it.

    Cacnea [​IMG] - Stunky works decently. I use Dratini against it as well since Cacnea is very slow and is kind of set up bait for it. Heck, sometimes I even Burn it with Misdreavus and stall it out.

    Carvanha[​IMG]- Thanks to Dratini and Chinchou, Carvanha is not as big of a threat... though it still manages a kill or two against me.

    Clamperl[​IMG]- I don't think I've seen a Clamperl while playing with this team... but Chinchou wouldn't have a problem with it, and even Carvanha and maybe Dratini wouldn't either. Heck, Stunky could blow up on it if need be...

    Chinchou [​IMG] - Agility Chinchou die to Scarf Chinchou unless they run HP [Grass], in which case Dratini sets up very easily. Scarf Chinchou is also easily walled by Chinchou+Dratini.

    Cranidos [​IMG] - Two Aqua Jet users makes me laugh at Cranidos. I don't have any switchins for it though...!

    Croagunk [​IMG] - Misdreavus is my "best" switchin, though I tend to keep whatever I have in against it unless it's Chinchou. Stunky works decently against variants without EQ or Cross Chop too. Kind of a threat...

    Cubone[​IMG]- Dies to the priority my team packs. Outside of TR, it's not a threat at all.

    Cyndaquil[​IMG]- I have 4 Fire resists and two users of Aqua Jet.

    Diglett[​IMG]- I don't like how this thing can just take out Chinchou so quickly... but it has touble beating Carvanha and Kabuto, and even Dratini if it lacks Sash. Sucker Punch versions are "walled" by Misdreavus.

    Doduo [​IMG] - Between Misdreavus and Chinchou, it cannot inflict too much damage. Kabuto works nicely too thanks to the Flying/Normal resist.

    Dratini [​IMG] - Dratini should have trouble setting up unless I'm playing poorly, but if it does I'm the one in trouble. Still, with Chinchou, Misdreavus, and my own Dratini, it dies (and I guess Stunky?).

    Drifloon [​IMG] - Priority kills a floon sweep, especially Misdreavus and Stunky. It has trouble setting up as well.

    Duskull [​IMG] - Stunky, Misdreavus, and Carvanha laugh at Duskull. It also cannot do much to Chinchou.

    Eevee [​IMG] - Misdreavus works well as an initial switchin; nobody uses Bite first. Even Kabuto works well if it's still alive.
    Elekid [​IMG] - Chinchou is my best switchin and does well. Both Misdreavus and Stunky work in pinches too. Elekid isn't fond of priority anyways.

    Gastly [​IMG] - Stunky kicks some ass. Carvanha can come in/set up on Shadow Ball as well, and Missy takes Sludge Bomb/Explosion.

    Gible [​IMG] - Without a Steel-type, I usually just sacrifice something to a Dragon-move and then send in the appopriate pokemon. Scarf Chinchou can revenge it easily enough too. The lack of resistance to Aqua Jet really goes a long way to taking it down.

    Gligar [​IMG] - I think maybe some SD/EQ/Night Slash/Quick Attack set can sweep me with insane prediction. Maybe not though, thanks to Dratini/Kabuto/Misdreavus, as well as Chinchou to go pick it off... Still, it can be a pain to take down. Scarf versions are easy to wall with Misdreavus as most lack Night Slash. RP versions die to Carvanha+Kabuto or other priority users.

    Goldeen[​IMG]- Kind of a crappier Buizel to my team. Without an Ice move; Dratini has an easier time taking it down. Lots of priority and no Aqua Jet on Goldeen also helps.

    Hippopotas [​IMG] - Has trouble against most pokemon on my team. It can only come in "safely" on like Stunky or Thunderbolt Chinchou, but it can't do much to Misdreavus so whatever.

    Houndour [​IMG] - Kabuto beats lead Houndour easily. Chinchou and Carvanha beat Houndour that isn't a lead easily.

    Kabuto[​IMG]- Carvanha and my own Kabuto help to pick off Kabuto thanks to the neutrality to boosted Aqua Jet. Outside of Rain it isn't an issue.

    Krabby[​IMG]- Not really overly threatening thanks to Chinchou. Misdreavus works well 'in a pinch' too. Stunky can take attacks and Explode on it.

    Machop [​IMG] - Misdreavus can take DynamicPunches easily enough, but if it is dead I have a bit of trouble. Chinchou outspeeds it and can hurt it with 100% accurate Hydro Pump though...

    Magby [​IMG] - Magby is the most threatening Fire-type to my team. Still, that doesn't say all that much thanks to Chinchou... and to a lesser extent Misdreavus and Dratini.

    Magnemite [​IMG] - Chinchou can take all attacks except Explosion, which tend to be painfully obvious. Scarf versions are set up fodder for Carvanha (Flash Cannon)/Dratini (Thunderbolt).

    [​IMG] - Misdreavus is a good switchin. After some CC Defense drops, priority hurts it a lot, especially from Carvanha/Dratini. Not as hard to beat as Machop...

    Mantyke [​IMG] - Chinchou walls it well. Stunky/Misdreavus can do in a pinch too.

    Meowth[​IMG]- Kabuto can beat it in the lead matchup. Misdreavus CAN absorb Fake Out but I don't like doing that from fear of Bite.

    Misdreavus [​IMG] - Stunky beats it handily. My own Misdreavus can revenge kill it, and Chinchou can pick off weakened Misdreavuses. Aqua Jet from Carvanha hurts a lot too.

    Munchlax [​IMG] - Misdreavus usually ends up beating the Munchlax switchin. If it comes in on Chinchou, I go to Misdreavus to absorb the Return/EQ and Burn it, then kill it. Nobody else has a problem with it.

    Omanyte [​IMG] - Lack of priority makes it easier to kill than Kabuto. Boosted Aqua Jets really hurt it, as does Sucker Punch. Not a threat outside of rain.

    Paras[​IMG]- I go to Dratini to absorb Spore. Then I usually go to Kabuto if it is alive to take the Bug Bite, and take it from there.

    Poliwag[​IMG]- Poliwag is beaten easily enough by Chinchou, meaning it cannot sweep. The abundance of priority on the team also makes this hard.

    Porygon[​IMG]- Misdreavus is a decent switchin. Stunky can beat it easily enough too. Against Download versions... I predict around them because they are likely Choice variants. Priority can help pick off Agility Porygon if I need it to.

    Rattata [​IMG] - Lol. Misdreavus works well. Ratatta isn't very threatening to the team. It's too slow/weak to be a threat.

    Remoraid[​IMG]- Chinchou is a good switchin. Dratini can set up on weaker Water-type moves, seeing as most Remoraid are Scarfed.

    Shroomish[​IMG]- Absorb the Spore with Dratini, then go to either Stunky or Misdreavus. Or absorb the Spore with something else and set up with Dratini...

    Slowpoke[​IMG]- Misdreavus is a good enough switchin. Stunky and Carvanha kinda laugh at it as well, and Chinchou.

    Snover [​IMG] - Kabuto destroys lead Snover. If it isn't a lead... I predict around it, by going to Carvanha on Blizzard or Stunky on Energy Ball, then attacking.

    Squirtle [​IMG] - Kind of a crappy Remoraid to me, though Ice Punch is "annoying". Chinchou laughs as it.

    Staryu [​IMG] - Chinchou is my prime switchin, but Stunky works OK as well, and Misdreavus and Dratini can kill a weakened Staryu.

    Swinub [​IMG] - Kabuto/Carvanha make it not a threat Misdreavus can easily come in and burn it as well. Chinchou can revenge kill it or come in on an Ice move.

    [​IMG] - Harder to beat than Doduo, but Chinchou works well still, and it has a hard time coming in. Kabuto also works, and so does Carvanha if it lacks Quick Attack. If my team is weakened a bit it is insane. I'm not going to bold Taillow though, as it's more of a situational nuisance to the team.

    Teddiursa[​IMG]- Dies to the abundance of priority on my team.

    Venonat[​IMG]- I attack it with lead Kabuto. If it is used outside of a lead for some reason, I sacrifice something to sleep and then go to Misdreavus. It is easy to kill with priority on Carvanha/Dratini as well.

    Voltorb [​IMG] - Unless it has Sucker Punch, it loses to Kabuto. Chinchou can deal with non-lead Voltorb, if they exist...

    Wailmer[​IMG]- Weakened by lead Kabuto, or just killed by it if it lacks Scarf. With 3 Water resists it isn't a big problem.

    Wynaut [​IMG]- Kabuto dents it but dies. Dratini does the same, though Wynaut is usually quite weakened before Dratini comes out. Stunky beats it. Carvanha beats it. Misdreavus beats it. Chinchou dents it but dies... I guess it's a problem, but not really...
  3. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music 63194
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 25, 2008
    Team Building Process

    Team Building Process:

    Ultima really wanted to use Dratini. Therefore, we decided to base the team around setting up conditions for an ideal Dratini sweep. Dratini was thus the first pokemon on the team.

    Snover is a big thorn, and we wanted to take it out early. Since most Snover are lead Snover of some variety, Focus Sash Kabuto as a lead was ideal for beating them, or leaving them with 1 HP, which is just as good for our purposes. We also wanted to take out ScarfGastly, another pokemon who is a common Dratini check. Stunky easily shuts down all ghosts (which are all ideal to remove as Dratini cannot reliably set up on any of them...), and was thrown onto the team.

    Now that we had pokemon to take out some common checks, we wanted more pokemon to help lure Scarf moves that Dratini could set up on. We also wanted that pokemon to have some offensive prowess of its own. Carvanha, who can draw Grass and Electric attacks, was a good fit for this.

    Our team was looking kinda weak to fast fighting-types like Scarf Machop and Scarf Mankey... and with two Ground weaks, also to Gligar. Bulky Misdreavus could help with the Fighting-types, and at least try to help combat Gligar.

    We were still weak to a few set up sweepers like Chinchou and Mantyke is Missy and Stunky had some prior damage. DD Dratini could also be bad in theory. We hastily threw in Scarf Chinchou to help against that, solidifying the lineup.

    ...a bit skimpy compared to the other two posts? Cry me a river!
  4. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    I ain't no woman, man.

    In all seriousness this is one of the best teams I have ever played, and really signifies what makes a great Little Cup team.

    Of course I do have nitpicks, as usual.

    When I played you, I noticed that if / when I got Dratini in on something like a Chinchou Thunderbolt / HP Grass / Water attack or a lucky burn I pulled off on Carvanha or Kabuto (an Oran Dratini could set up on Misdreavus), you really had trouble dealing with it. Technically, you could probably bulk up Chinchou a bit to survive ExtremeSpeed more often, but other than that you're just going to have to force it to outrage with Misdreavus. The only other option would be to bulk up Stunky, and lose an attack for Crunch, but again, it's likely just better for you to play around it with Misdreavus. So there are some "suggestions", if you want to try them out. If you only have trouble against my Dratini then disregard this :P heehee.

    That's really all I could think of, otherwise great team. Really, great team.

    P.S. I'm jacking the threatlist that you jacked from me and made better :)
  5. little gk

    little gk competitive oosos player
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Mar 19, 2009
    I never really played this team much,once or twice iirc, but one thing i noticed was your problem with Dratini. One thing you could do about this is try a Scarf Gastly over chinchy. This Gastly outspeeds +1 Dratini and forces it out of using ExtremeSpeed, since Gastly is immune to it. It also gives you the always awesome double ghost strategy going for you, which never hurts. Other than that really tiny thing, it's a really solid team EM.

    ps. i rated you late for shafting me!
  6. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music 63194
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 25, 2008
    I've been considering and testing ScarfGastly over Chinchou. It's worked out very well for the most part (the extra speed against pokemon like Mankey etc is very helpful, as is another Ground/Fighting resist), however...

    It's leaving my team scarily weak to AgilityTyke and Agility Chinchou. I feel like they are even bigger threats to my team than Dratini originally was (Chinchou could sponge a +1 ESpeed...). Does anyone have any suggestions to fix/help with that?
  7. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    I just noticed, your Kabuto has 176 Atk when it should have 196 Atk.

    I think the best solution is to keep Chinchou, but in order to beat Dratini slow down Chinchou to 22-23 Speed and bulk it up a bit to take ExtremeSpeed better.
  8. franky

    franky aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 12, 2009
    Hello EM,

    After trying this team out, the one that sticks out as an obvious suggestion is Waterfall over Earth Power. Croagunk is not that big of a deal, and Earth Power ultimately takes good prediction on a Croagunk switch. Waterfall does more things for you like actually deal with Phanpy because Aqua Jet is iffy on physically bulky versions. Waterfall also hits quite hard on Machop leads, so you should look to use it for sure. Earth Power with such a low Special Attack stat is iffy for the most part. With Waterfall, you can go to 36 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe for your EV spread, adding +1 in HP and +1 in Defense.

    As for Dratini, it really is tough to handle. I've been toying with a bulkier spread and if you want a higher chance of surviving +1 Extremespeed, you could try out 132 Def / 152 SpA / 220 Spe. Basically adds one point into Defense and decreases one in the attack department. Another alternate spread is 212 Def / 152 SpA / 140 Spe. Decrease one Speed point and one Special attack point to max out Defense. Although this is a bit overcentralizing.

    As for other options, well not really, just personal opinion. I'd like you to tyr out Return Dratini over Outrage Dratini. It may seem dumb at first, but I find it really effective (with Stealth Rock down) and for the looks of it, you will get SR down almost all the time. Return ensures you don't get locked in. Just my two cents, I'm like the only one who can attest to the effectiveness of Return Dratini. People have to try it out sometime! overall gl.
  9. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music 63194
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 25, 2008
    After a brief test, I'm going to go with the suggested Waterfall over Earth Power (and the nature/EV changes).

    I'm also going to put some extra defensive EVs into Chinchou from SpAtk. It's really not too much of a difference... (after I switch into SR *twice* I only have a 2.56% chance to die to Espeed instead of a 33% chance) but it's still more helpful nonetheless. Unless of course someone can show calcs to how 14 SpA is much worse than 15.

    I tested out Return Dratini a bit and I found it kind of underwhelming. My main issue with it is against Gastly and Misdreavus, I really can't hit them hard anymore. If I need to use Dratini for something midgame, I don't mind suicidally locking myself into Outrage as much as I mind Return. *if only it got DClaw...* =(((
  10. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    Well here are some calcs EM:

    15 SAtk HPump vs Oran Lax: (30.00% - 37.50%) 100% 3HKO with Stealth Rock14 SAtk HPump vs Oran Lax: (25.00% - 32.50%) 50% 3HKO with Stealth Rock

    15 SAtk Tbolt vs Croagunk: (84.21% - 100.00%) 46.15% OHKO with Stealth Rock
    14 SAtk Tbolt vs Croagunk: (78.95% - 94.74%) 2.56% OHKO with Stealth Rock

    Though here is the big one:

    15 SAtk Ice Beam versus 28 HP Dratini: (85.71% - 104.76%) 60% OHKO (only allows 1 atk for LO variants)
    14 SAtk Ice Beam versus 28 HP Dratini: (76.19% - 95.24%) 3% OHKO (possibly allows 2 atks for LO vriants)

    So I would recommended nerfing your Speed in order to bulk yourself up instead of SpA.

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