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Anti-Iconic Team

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Iris, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Iris


    Mar 22, 2009
    When I get bored of playing seriously, I make teams to screw with Iconic and the team I present today is no different. Although “screwing with Iconic” may make the team sound bad or gimmicky, the team is far from gimmicky or unusable. Iconic’s largely copied team “Teenage Wasteland” (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74683) has never beaten this team so the team goal was achieved though beating Iconic is so easy…

    The goal of the team was to use a little creativity with Stall and I believe I accomplish this is a some ways. Basically, I wanted to abuse the move Roar as it is Iconic’s least favorite move. After putting Stealth Rocks and Spikes on the team, I tried to fit roar on as many pokemon as possible. Five out of six of the pokemon I chose can learn the move Roar, but sadly, only four out of the five use the move. Im not sure how you would classify this team except with stall. Ubers has been divided into Classic and Modern stall with Classic being the Blissey, Giratina, Forretress, Groudon, Latias, Lugia (usually) and Modern being something like Blissey, Forretress, Giratina-o, Groudon, Scarfed Pokemon, Rest Stat Booster. I guess this would be more Modern Stall but I hate the terms Modern and Classic as Stall is Stall.

    If anyone cares, Iconic used this team for Tag Team V3 and won every game. I’m not sure who he played and I haven’t bothered to ladder with the team as it is boring.
    So whatever: On to the team:
    Quick Look:

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP/200 Def/56 Spd
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Roar

    Groudon was chosen as my lead simply because I wanted Stealth Rocks out as soon as possible. Sadly, he loses horribly to Deoxys-s, allowing Deoxys to set up Stealth Rock and maybe one layer of spikes depending on whether the user decides to Taunt or not (most likely just Spike on turn 2.) Groudon’s sturdy HP and Defense allow him to continually come back into the game time after time and take the necessary hits for my team. Sadly, after I get Stealth Rocks on the field, I almost never use Groudon except for Lucarios and some Rayquazas.

    The moveset is really self explanatory. Stealth Rocks is the crux of the set, weakening opponents’ pokemon as they switch into the battle. Roar compliments Stealth Rocks usually causing two pokemon to take Stealth Rock along with Spikes. Earthquake is a solid STAB move and Stone Edge is for Ho-oh’s mainly and sometimes Rayquazas. The EV’s are probably not very efficient as I made this team in a hurry and never bothered to really change it. Max HP and near max Defense along with an Impish nature allows Groudon to tank physical hits as well as he possibly can. 56 Speed EVs are really pushing “speed creeping” but since my team is very Ho-oh weak, I need to make sure I out speed it for a quick Stone Edge kill.
    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP/6 Spd/252 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Basically when I decided to use Kyogre, I wanted to use something I have never used before. I’ve used Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Substitute Calm Mind, Rest Calm Mind, and Lead Kyogre, but I wanted something different, something out there. When I saw Kyogre, I saw its base 100 HP and 140 Special Defense and I wanted to see how much Kyogre could take with Max Special Defense. Kyogre also gives me further control of the weather with Drizzle. With Drizzle and Drought, I now am less concerned with weather teams like pure Sunny Day and pure Rain Dance teams. Kyogre became my Go-To pokemon when I am in doubt about a moveset or when I see a Darkrai.

    Surf was chosen as my only attacking move but with rain and STAB, it still hits pretty hard even without investment. I chose Roar simply to mess with Iconic and to abuse my hazards set up by Groudon and Skamory. Rest and Sleep Talk provide healing of status and a way to utilize Kyogre even when he is asleep. The EVs were a joke. I chose max HP and Special Defense simply to see how much Kyogre could take. I probably should go to 32 Speed Kyogre but I probably will never get to it.

    *Iconic changed Roar to Calm Mind and probably to the standard Bold whatever EV spread.
    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Toxic

    Skarmory is a pokemon not seen in Ubers as much as it should. Skarmory provides the needed resistances like Dragon, Dark, and Ground, but he also provides Spikes. Spikes are the key to many of my victories. Since so many Ubers pokemon are grounded, Spikes are really effective in the Ubers tier more than in OU. Skarmory is my first switch into many pokemon including Groudon, Deoxys-A, Scizor, Dialga with Leftovers, and Giratinas. Skarmory’s fantastic Defense and typing allow him to lay down multiple layers of Spikes, Roost, and Whirlwind pokemon away racking more hazard damage. Nothing too unusual here except that it is Skarmory and not Forretress. Though I wish I had Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes, Skarmory’s ability to heal himself really sets himself apart.

    Spikes is the crux of the set enabling my team to function properly. Whirlwind fits the theme causing more hazard damage making my walling job easier. Roost heals 50% instantly and allows Skarmory to keep coming into the battle and lasting a long time. Usually, Skarmory is one of the last pokemon to die on my team. Toxic was really just a filler but I have come to really like it. Toxic really cripples some pokemon I really hate facing, CM lugia in particular. Nailing Rayquaza with Toxic really helps as well. The EVs are pretty straight forward, max HP and Defense to take as much as possible from that side of the spectrum. Skarmory’s average Special Defense is not worth investing in considering how hard Uber pokemon hit from the Special side.
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP/34 Spd/224 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head

    Probably my favorite pokemon to use on the team. Jirachi fits so nicely onto any Ubers team and I’ve noticed it is gaining in popularity on the ladder and with good reason. Jirachi’s fantastic typing, stats, and movepool make it so versatile. My team needed a solid answer to Latias and Latios as well as taking the powerful specially based Draco Meteors, Spacial Rends, and Dragon Pulses. The role of Jirachi was simply to check these threats while providing Wish support to heal the two members of my team who cannot heal themselves. Due to Jirachi’s Steel/Psychic typing, Jirachi finds an ample amount of time to Wish or Thunderwave. Jirachi’s 100 HP and Special Defense really helps take the +2 Dark Pulses, +1 Aura Spheres, and +1 Draco Meteors/Dragon Pulses.

    Wish provides Groudon and Giratina-o to last in the longest of battles. Protect is really helpful for scouting Specs or Scarf users and insuring Wish activates for Jirachi. Thunderwave was chosen over Toxic as the pokemon I want to Paralyze (Darkrai, Latias, Latios, Mewtwo) are easier to deal with when slowed compared to poisoned. Iron Head was chosen over Uturn as it provides a solid STAB move and allows me to beat Latias, Latios, Mewtwos, and Darkrais easier. Iron Head’s nifty 60% flinch can be crucial in key situations but I am a pretty unlucky guy so I never rely on it as much as others. After playing a while, I noticed more and more Choice Banded and Dragon Dancing Tyranitar, so I put 34 evs in speed to out speed Jolly Tyranitars as well as the really rare support Celebis. I know it is speed creep but one EV in Special Defense will not matter that much.

    *Iconic uses Body Slam because he is Canadian.
    Giratina-o @ Platinum Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 Atk/210 Spd/52 SAtk
    Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Draco Meteor / Hidden Power Fire
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Sneak

    My second favorite member of the team is Giratina-o because of his versatility. Along with having a useful immunity to Ground, Giratina-o has an immunity to Normal type attacks preventing Rapid Spin. Without a Ghost, most stall fail to achieve victory and though Rapid Spin is uncommon in Ubers, I would rather be safe than sorry. Giratina-o provides a much needed offensive tempo to my team. His priority attack and coverage give me an edge against opposing stall while giving me a very hard hitting pokemon against offensive teams. Sadly, Giratina-o does not have the move Roar.

    Dragon Claw was chosen over Outrage simply because I cannot afford to make a mistake and lose my ability to stop Rapid Spin. Dragon Claw still 2HKO’s most Blissey anyways. Shadow Sneak is my favorite move on this pokemon providing my team with a priority attack to revenge kill a myriad of threats to pick off weakened pokemon like Mewtwo and Latias. Earthquake was chosen to give my team another way to beat Heatran who has also gained popularity. Earthquake used to be a surprise to many but now it has lost its efficiency. The last move debate between Draco Meteor and Hidden Power Fire has its pros and cons. Draco Meteor provides a solid Dragon STAB from the Special Spectrum to really hit Groudon hard while Hidden Power Fire gives me a swift kill on Forretress in the sun. Lately, I have been using Hidden Power Fire but the original version still uses Draco Meteor. The EVs are from someone else as I was too lazy to fine tune my own for my own purposes.
    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/196 Spd /60 SDef
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost
    - Reflect
    - Roar

    Latias rounds the team off giving me solid speed and solid defenses. Known as the best Kyogre counter, Latias is usually my first switch into non-leftovers Kyogre in fear of Thunderwave. Latias’ speed of 110 is also very nice allowing me to out speed threats like Palkia and Garchomp. There really isn’t much to say as far as Latias’ role of another Ground resist and Fighting resist along with extra Kyogre insurance. I do happen to play Latias very very conservatively usually double switching from opposing Kyogre straight into Skarmory in fear of Scizors and Tyranitars.

    Latias’ moveset is not what the regular moveset. I chose a different set of Roar (obvious) and Reflect over the usual Calm Mind and Thunder. I wanted to use Reflect Latias in Ubers ever since I used Reflect Latias in OU, and I have to say, it is pretty cool. I gain better insurance against potential pursuit users either by Roaring them away or taking their hits under Reflect.

    Overall if I were to make a few changes it would probably be to max Giratina-o’s speed to tie with Jolly Lucarios and beat Adamant Lucarios as I hate those things more than anything. Thankfully, they really can’t set up without Wobbuffet support. Cool team though I would never call it my best but it is very fun to use.
    PS: I never lost to Iconic.
  2. Iconic

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 22, 2009
    Hey nerd! I feel bad that everyone is ignoring your RMT so I'll be nice and give it a rate!

    Jokes aside, this is a obviously a great team that I've had lots of fun using. This is the team that got me more interested in Ubers stall and stall in general. For reference sake, it got me to the top 10 of the leaderboard on a few accounts in no time, although it's definitely true when people say leaderboard stats don't mean much. Anyways, after playing with it so much, there are a few things I've noticed that can be fixed to make it a bit better, although you've clearly done a great job building the team.

    As you mentioned, the biggest change I made to the team was to run Calm Mind over Roar on Kyogre. Without Forretress, the team struggles against opposing stall teams, although you probably don't find it too much of a big deal since facing stall is your forte. Calm Mind is the reason why I won my Round 3 game of Team Trials and countless other matches against stall, and I think overall it makes the team better. Also, at least 32 Speed EVs as you've said would helpful be helpful on Kyogre, or maybe even more since you seem to epitomize speed creeping with all your teams haha. Other than that there's very little to change. Hidden Power Fire is a good idea on Giratina-O over Draco Meteor, since I didn't find myself using DM that much, and it addresses the every-annoying Forretress. I think the average user would benefit more from the standard Calm Mind / Dragon Pulse / Thunder / Recover Latias, but your little Roar / Reflect variant has really grown on me and it's actually excellent with Spikes support. Regardless, it's still a decent optional change. Finally, although Toxic Skarmory is incredible and will be on many of my future Ubers teams, Forretress is still a very worthwhile alternative because it helps against opposing spikestacking teams while slowly chipping away at Giratina-O with Payback. I tested a team with Forretress lead (because I hate Deoxys-S) and Groudon over Skarm, and it worked very nicely, so that's again another optional change. Overall the team is fantastic, and the fact that you can make such solid teams when you're just messing around (or messing with me!) is a testament to your skill! Man I don't think I've never said this many good things about you Iris so you'd better relish in it while you can...

    PS: I've beaten Iris more times than he can remember.
  3. shrang

    shrang Draw me... like one of your human girls
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2009
    Hi Iris, this is a pretty good team. Only one thing I'm concerned about are last Pokemon boosters, which your Pokemon doesn't have a win-condition or enough firepower to overcome, something which stall teams need to be able to beat once in a while. Something like a last Pokemon CM Kyogre, CM Manaphy, CM Latias can spell big trouble for your team since you can't just phaze them away. This is why I'd suggest changing Latias' set back to the standard one (You already have 3 phazers, I don't see any reason to run a 4th).

    Otherwise, this is a good team. Good luck.
  4. Conflict

    Conflict Tournament Banned
    is a Pre-Contributoris a defending SPL Champion

    Jul 30, 2009
    Yeah nice team overall.

    Just a minor nitpick i can make here. You should swap Giratina-O's and Groudons position in your team.

    Giratina-o makes for a better lead cause it stops Deo-S reliably from setting up Spikes. Giratina-O works even better on your team cause you have Jirachi and Kyogre which takes on most Leads Gira-O isnt able to deal with.
    Groudon is much better suited as a midgame-SRer in my honest opinion because as a lead Groudon loses against literally any lead out there which puts you at an disadvantage early on.

    And i think you should use CMKyogre or CMLatias to handle other Set-Uppers better.

    Hope i could have been of some help.
  5. Iris


    Mar 22, 2009
    yea right iconic. Ill probably try CM Kyogre, maybe with out sleep talk though. Just Surf, CM, Roar, Rest. Thanks though

    I really have never had a problem with CM latias as jirachi beats almost all variants bar Refresh variants which i still have a good chance and HP fire Latias are really rare. CM and Tail Glow Manaphy is probably pretty tough to beat if Groudon is down but what ive found is that since i never use groudon much, i still have it late game. CM Kyogre is probably the biggest threat but Gira-o can 3hko the Rest ones but CM +3 attacks is really tough to beat actually. Ive actually used CM latias and ive never been impressed ever. I may try it again. Thanks shrang
    Conflict's idea is probably the best ive heard. Ill try Gira as my lead as that will only allow SR on the field which i don't mind that much.

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