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Anti-Metagame: What Pokemon can stand up to weather conditions?

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Gymdude, May 15, 2012.

  1. Gymdude

    Gymdude

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    Hi all. Recently, I’ve gotten back into competitive since dabbling in it when it first came out.

    Naturally, one of the first things I did was scrap my old team, and start with a new one. I made it as standard as standard comes with a team of :justin2: / :happybrain: / :avatar: / :chaos: / :cloud: / :jump:, just to see what was what. Right away, I could tell that weather was a strong force. Mostly every standard team that I faced would be fairly easy to beat, while weather (and sometimes stall) was particularly hard to face.

    Now I digress, I know everyone must not be using weather. Moreover, I know stall is a main opponent of it, but being the competitive hipster that I am, I try to stay away from stall. Given that, what are some of the individual pokemon, combinations, or strategies that you have used to take on this force?

    ---
    I can start off briefly based on what I have seen.

    I have encountered a support Rotom-C which could be used to check rain teams:

    Rotom-C bolsters a type pairing that no other pokemon has: Electric/Grass; dual types that are both SE against water. With not one, but two STAB options for taking out pokemon that benefit from rain as well as bulky waters that would normally wall other electric types such as swampert and gastrodon, it offers one of the best answers to rain offense. It has great synergy with steel types like scizor (also good in the rain thanks to weakened fire moves) and can abuse volt switch to scout the opponent's team. It can also act as a revenge killer if you run choice rotom, as well as being able to trick your choice item onto incoming threats such as specially defensive heatran or chancey/blissey.


    Moving onto a more "standard" pokemon that you might encounter in OU, the classic starmie set that I was using:

    fairs well against rain teams as well. Starmie's speed, power, and typing give it an advantage that rain teams will find hard to face. Politoed can't touch it unless it's running HP Electric, and other water types like Gyarados, Azumarill, and Vaporeon will have to worry about being KO'd by electric attacks like thunderbolt or thunder. Additionally, counters like Ttar and Scizor will find themselves pressed to show their faces so long as Starmie is shooting off STAB LO rain boosted Hydro Pumps (or even thunders), and defensive counters like Ferrothorn and Blissey can be dealt with using Trick if you're running a choiced set. The only thing starmie needs to worry about here is Rotom and faster electric types, such as Jolteon. Jolteon will still find it hard to switch in since one boosted Hydro Pump will be an OHKO.
    ---

    Both of these pokemon happen to work well in rain, as well as against rain, giving them an anti-metagame advantage; however, not every pokemon that works well in weather is going to work well against it. For instance, Venasaur is tremendous in sun, but it will do diddly squat when attempting to take on other sun based teams.

    This thread can be used to cite some of the best anti weather pokemon, combinations, and strategies used against ALL weather conditions.
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Virizion is hands down one of the most effective anti meta pokemon around. Totally screws up Rain Teams, Sand teams hate Virizions dual stabs combined with HP Ice, and Hail teams don't like boosted fighting attacks being thrown their way (although equally Virizion does not like Blizzard)

    Sun teams have an easier time against Virizion although again, Swords Dance Virizion is very frustrating since they have to worry about +2 Stone Edges flying around, as well as Virizion excellent special defense stat meaning it can tank an HP Fire from Venusaur or something making it tricky to deal with. A very solid threat to many weather teams

    (Ill post a set when its not 1 AM and im not tired lol)
  3. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast It hasn't been as nice at night these last few days
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    Mamoswine, while not necessarily a counter to weather, deserves mention for being immune to both Sandstorm and Hail damage and messing with Hail teams even further with Snow Cloak.
  4. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Gastrodon, although generally underrated is a superb rain check due to its ability Storm Drain. With Storm Drain it is immune to Water-Type Attacks, and even gets a Special Attack boost from them. Also with its natural bulk, it is able to tank most hits that are thrown at him, and threaten back with either Scald/Earth Power/Ice Beam/Earthquake. Gastrodon also has the option to run Choice Specs in an attempt to abuse Rain's boost to Water-Type attacks.
  5. Doughboy

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    Your team isn't "as standard as comes" at all. I would argue that Volt-Turn is the force that is more in demand for something "anti-metgame". However for weather, the standard anti weather core has been Heatran (Sun) -Gastrodon (Rain)-Skarmory (Sand). Not only do they have some nice synergy together, but effectively each member of the group can singlehandedly shut down an entire weather. Skarmory with Shed Shell and Max/Max+ Heatran is my personal touch in there. Earthquake on Gastrodon makes it truely anti-weather as it stop any CM Jirachi from getting to out of control with Sp. Def boosts.

    Standard Anti-Weather Core (open)
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Protect

    Skarmory (F) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Drill Peck
    - Whirlwind

    Gastrodon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover


    My personal favorite for shutting down Rain teams has been Sp. Def Roserade. She can take Scalds all day with Natural Cure and of course her resistances do come in handy for those rain-based Electric/Water attacks. Spikes is the icing on the cake since it puts a lot of pressure on Politoed and Ferrothorn not to switch in.

    Note: This is my anti-Volt Turn Roserade, but just change out HP Fire for Sleep Powder and change the EV's to max/max+ (Sp. Def) and you are set (though you may what some defense not to get demolished by Pursuit!).

    [​IMG]
    Roserade (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 152 HP / 68 SAtk / 252 SDef / 36 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
  6. tehy

    tehy

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    I find that toxic spikes is a lot better for beating rain, if you can take out their poison-type. That means that politoed, unless he has rest or refresh(Not very likely) will die no matter what with a single use. Spikes, not so much. Also, leaf storm over giga drain all the way.
  7. Thought

    Thought

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    I find a slightly bulky LO/Lefties Zapdos to be very strong against Rain especially, a bit hail too.

    I won't give a set really, since its so flexible, but running T-Bolt, Heat Wave, HP Grass and Roost would make sure Zapdos stays alive and continues to hurt. Rain teams absolutely hate the Electric/Fire combo, plus the Grass covers up any immunities. Sand still hates getting a STAB T-Bolt or a SE Heatwave on their unprotected Steels.
  8. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast It hasn't been as nice at night these last few days
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    How would Zapdos help against Hail teams? Every Hail team carries some user of Blizzard.
  9. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

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    I have a rather strange Rotom-w that works suprisingly well against Rain and Sand teams

    Rotom-W@Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Trick

    While Will-o-Trick might seem like a bad combination they work suprisngly well together. The surprise factor alone makes this an awesome combination but together they can tear apart sand teams with ease. Also, Rotom-W's natural typing and Volt switch makes it an excellent check to rain teams. Even Gastrodon who can stop rotom from walling your team can be dealt with by a simple trick.

    That said can you really find a good pokemon that can counter every weather out there. Virizion is the closes to actually stopping every weather by being able to tank rain and Sand teams and doing ok against sun and hail but that's the closest one to being able to combat all weathers at the same time. It takes a team to stop weather. Dat rotom I just posted isn't very good against sun and absolutely sux vs hail but with Heatran and ferrothorn I can do some real damage against those two weathers. One pokemon does not a team make.
  10. XcRunner

    XcRunner

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    Slowbro does quite well against most types of weather. It tends to stop hail teams and sand teams quite easily while beating sun teams w/o grass types and most physical rain abusers.
  11. LPFan

    LPFan

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    Read post number 4, although I still agree.
  12. SuperChillarmy

    SuperChillarmy

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    Slowbro (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Calm Mind
    - Fire Blast
    - Psychic
    - Slack Off

    Following up XcRunner with a Slowbro set I'm using at the moment. Slowbro has massive physical bulk (on the ladder today a +4 Gliscor couldn't 2HKO with Earthquake. Not sure about the EV spread, but seriously, that's massive physical bulk). Against Rain, Slowbro lures in Scizor and Ferrothorn and does huge amounts of damage with a CM boosted Fire Blast. With 2 CM boosts it stops Volturn cold. Against Sand, Slowbro is pretty much unmatched when it comes to beating Landorus and Terrakion. Terrakion is still a bit of an issue, but with proper prediciction and Intimitop, Terrakion is easily handled. Against Sun, the opponent is going to be pretty hard pressed taking boosted Fire Blasts and Psychics, baiting Chlorophyll sweepers and OHKOing them. There are a lot of other options you can run depending on your team. If Dragons are a hassle, you can run Ice Beam. If Rain is an issue, run Surf. Then, if you're going more Stall based, you can run Scald, Toxic, or Thunder Wave. Heck, be bold and run Trick Room!
  13. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Another quite standard mon that everybody knows is BU Breloom, which can take on many Rain members such as Rotom-W, Tentacruel, defensive Toed, and Ferrothorn, and many Sand members such as Tyranitar, Landorus, Jellicent, defensive Gliscor, Rotom-W and more. Even against Sun teams it is quite useful as it can come in on Donphan/Forretress, which almost every sun team carries and put 1 poke out of the match with Spore, and even put some hurt if the opposing sun team is offensive.
  14. ??????

    ??????

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    Nattorei (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    - Curse
    - Stealth Rock

    Curse Ferrothorn destroys rain. Come in on their own Ferrothorn and proceed to set up. Many Ferrothorn stay in to finish setting up their hazards. On the turn they switch out, attack and take out their counter. Many rain teams only have Focus Blast for Ferro. With the SpDef investment, you can take 1 Focus Blast.

    I've gotten too many ragequits with this set.
  15. Raptorg

    Raptorg

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    Would it be interesting to put a weather move on a pokemon in order to get rid of permanent weather once you dispose of the permaweather inducer?

    Slowbro, which has been mentioned before, for example can learn all weather moves except sandstorm. So putting that on your team, with a weather move that hinders your team the least, or benefits it the most.

    Its typing and stats probably makes it the best choice for this, also there's the matter where you can choose your weather move, where other options might be limited to just one.
  16. javanonsc20

    javanonsc20

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    If you don't want to use weather at all, then 2 drag 1 mag is a very good and simple to use strategy to not necessarily deal with but to use a hyper offensive strategy to prevent your opponent from being allowed to set up or really get a grasp in the battle.

    2 drag 1 mag just means using one dragon type to draw out steel types, then bringing in Magnezone to deal with the steel types, and bringing in the second dragon to sweep with.

    In a lot of cases, people tend to use a banded dragon (Haxorus for example because of its humongous attack stat) and just use outrage because it will still hurt still quite badly. Then let the dragon faint or get confused, bring in mag and handle your business from there.

    This is the strategy that I am currently using, and its gotten me top 100 on the smog ladder and i'm still laddering.

    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/magnezone

    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/haxorus

    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/dragonite

    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/salamence
  17. tehy

    tehy

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    Pretty sure i beat you using that team, or someone similar.

    Anyways, my anti-metagame set is specially defensive hippowdon. You get huge opportunities to set up rocks, balance teams often have no answer for you, you can roar out things that don't expect it, and sun teams basically get screwed, as you switch into ninetales and force it to take constant SR damage.

    Also, Shed Shell skarmory, for the above teams. Completely wrecks them.

    To the weather moves thing, here's an idea. Have a team that beats, say, rain, but is crushed by sun. Kill ninetales early and use rain dance. Eh?
  18. bubbly

    bubbly

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    SpDef Hippo is great yeah.

    The only major thing I think which hasn't been mentioned yet is Hydreigon. Ninetales and Politoed can't hurt it while it sets up, or else DM's / U-turns. Tyranitar is OHKO'd, or close, by Leftovers Focus Blast depending on the set. Also, one of the few switchins to Rotom which doesn't lose to Tyranitar / Scizor.
  19. I Am

    I Am

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    Kingdra is a fantastic anti-weather poke in general.

    Here's the set I've personally enjoyed using:

    Mixed Rain Dance
    @Life Orb Swift Swim
    Mild Nature
    92 Atk / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
    ~ Rain Dance
    ~ Waterfall
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Draco Meteor

    It's taken directly from Smogon but I honestly can't find any better EVs to run.

    Kingdra actually has decent natural bulk (75/95/95), but more importantly boasts 4x resistances to both Fire and Water type attacks, two of the main attacks found on Sun and Rain teams respectively. A resistance to steel also helps sponge Scizor bullet punches that try to knock it out early. It also has a neutrality to Ice meaning it's not completely useless against Hail teams like some other dragons, and has super effective coverage on most common Sandstorm abusers (Terrakion, Tyranitar, Landorus).

    However, the crux of the set is rain dance. Against Sand/Sun/Hail, it's easy to flip momentum in your favor by cancelling their weather and adding your own beneficial rain (which both doubles your speed to the point of beating any common scarfer and gives you an extra 1.5x boost on 2/3 of your moves). If they let their weather starter die early (a lot of opponents sack their starter if another starter isn't present in team preview), you can cut all of that momentum and start a minisweep of your own. Also, the STAB, rain boosted mixed water moves will take down pretty much any common opponent found on Sand/Sun teams (Tyranitar, Landorus, Terrakion, Volcarona, Ninetails, etc.) at a really really fast speed.

    Against rain teams, you don't even have to set up. If they don't have a Ferrothorn (or if you weaken it sufficiently before hand), you have a Swift Swim abuser ready to tear their team apart. 252 SpA LO Draco Meteor hugely dents most rain teams, and you're fast enough to outspeed Tornadus/Latios and easily dispatch them. Waterfall allows you to continue your sweep, or you can just switch out and back in for a fresh start.

    It's really an amazing poke - I recommend everyone try it out.
  20. APimpNamedSlickback

    APimpNamedSlickback

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    I agree that Gastrodon is definitely a solid counter to sand and rain teams. Since it gets immunity from sand because of it's typing, and gets resistance to water because of it's ability, Gastrodon can definitely cause problems both as an offensive force and a defensive wall. Also, Gastrodon is hands down the single best counter to Volt Turn because it can recover off 50% of the damage from CB Uturn, and can easily play around Rotom-W is predicted correctly. I can't see why it's dropping in usage, perhaps because of the surge of sun teams in the meta. But, there's my two cents.
    Peace.
  21. Bad Ass

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    Terrakion is great because CB Close Combat pretty much destroys EVERYTHING, regardless of weather.
  22. Gymdude

    Gymdude

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    Alright this is the third time I have made this post, and I'm falling asleep at the keyboard, so I'm making it short this time.

    Good suggestions! Virizion is everything. Kingdra and Rotom come in a close second place. Mamoswine, Gyarados, Vaporeon, the Lati twins and dragon types in general, are moderately unaffected by the weather changes and can check some of the threats that weather brings out. Grass types like Roserade and Breloom fair well against rain teams as well. Defensive pokemon such as Gastrodon, Slowbro, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Hippowdown can be helpful, but bring little offensive pressure to the forefront.

    I've seen Sunny Day Heatran used to moderate success to touch on @Raptorg's question.


    The old set was 252 HP / 160 Def / 80 SpAtk (now is: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA) which is an OHKO on Scizor in rain after 1 CM. That's pretty much the only pokemon that Slowbro can stand up to in terms of rain team players though. Everything else is faster than him, and can wear him down with their strong special STAB attacks. Furthermore, unless you're an expert predictor on switch-ins, it doesn't have a prayer against Chlorophyll sweepers either.


    This set doesn't look good at all. It can easily be stopped by taunt, and power whip and gyro ball have terrible coverage. Most Ferrothorn counters are not going to be weak to steel/grass since that is what they are countering in the first place. Meanwhile, your opponents' team has 3 layers of spikes and SR up, and you're stuck with a slow 'sweeper' with lousy SE type coverage.

    Ironically, I believe that these two sets illustrate what Slowbro and Ferrothorn do best: support. You can't do half support and half offense on these types of pokemon.
  23. .-Lucky

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    I dont get it, why would you want to look for a rain check that far. Rotom-W checks rain like a boss and works kinda good on sun and sandstorm.

    Plus it resists ground,fire and water (with good defensive stats). Of course water/ground and grass types are an issue, but you can always play around them (specially defensive skarmory being a good partner)
  24. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    Except Rotom-C does everything that Rotom-W can do IN ADDITION TO:
    • Actually being able to use its strong STAB against sun teams
    • Destroying Gastrodon
    • Coming in on Ferrothorn freely
    • Beating Rotom-W

    Only thing you lose out is beating Mamoswine, lol. Why are people underrating Rotom-C so much ?_?
  25. .-Lucky

    .-Lucky

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    Not my intention to underrate rotom-c, but rotom-w seems to be more prepaired all-around than c. In fact you are missing a great thing, Rotom C actually CANT check sun teams(can rotom learn rain dance?, seems like it could work). If rotom W and Gastrodon Are an issue you could just pack HP grass.

    yes, you actually check ferrothorn and gastrodon, but then what about volcarona,heatran, fire pkmn and ice beam users?(i dont list venusaur or virizion, since both forms have nothing to check them if not packing hp ice)

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