Anti-Metagame

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by The Unlucky one, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    843
    Hello Overused Forum! This is The Unlucky One. I have been really interested in Anti-Metagame sets lately. These kind of sets are really good in helping you get a better team matchup against most thinks that people use. First off, I would like to describe what a Metagame and an Anti-Metagame set is.


    Metagame: What you can expect people to do coming from what people do. The common idea for the OU Meta is something that goes like Genesect is a good poke, it primarily runs scarf and heatran beats it free. Also, use weather based teams because its good. Mamoswine can work well on any team that is dragon-weak. If you have trouble checking dragons, (Aside from kyurem-b) Mamo is really worth the teamslot and won't disappoint


    Anti-Metagame: An Anti-Metagame set is something that is good because it is great in countering what is commonly used in the metagame. Usually, Anti-
    Metagame-based teams usually gets pretty good matchups against common teams such as Sun,Deo-D hyper offense, Rain and Sand (Hail lol).
    A really good way to find out some stuff that is commonly used is to use the usage statistics.


    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3474212


    As you can see here, Pokemon like Genesect dominate the meta as well as Rain, Sandstorm and Sun. This causes good pokes like Conkeldurr to be less effective. This also means the rise of efficiency of Pokemon that can deal with these pokemon. Hell, I run my Victini with Jolly Scarf just to outspeed Scarf Gene. Also, dragons such as Dnite, Salamence, Garchomp and Kyurem-Black make up a good portion of what people use. Here are some Anti-Metagame sets that people would want to use.

    [​IMG]

    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock

    Sash Mamoswine works really well on teams and becomes a good poke since Dragons are such a Driving force in the meta. It's priority Ice Shard can OHKO Pokes such as Salamence, Chomp, and Dnite after rocks. Also, Mamoswine can provide your rocks support and a check to +1 Volcarona if Hazards are not up (If Stone Edge hits) Mamoswine gets the great Edgequake combination and Mamo can also help against pokemon like Heatran as well as ripping through Drag-Mag. Mamoswine works well on any team that is dragon weak. If you have a problem with Dragons (Except Kyurem-B and maybe latias), mamoswine would help your team extensively and is worth a teamslot. I have used mamoswine on 1/2 my teams. Mamo works well with HP Fire variants of Lilligant and Venusaur as Mamo can deal with heatran and dragons. This also means Mamo works well with Victini so I like this variant of Mamo in the sun.

    [​IMG]

    Kingdra @ Life Orb / Specs
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Hydro Pump
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire

    Yeah, all credit to kniteowl on the thread "Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame". I think we know about kingdra being anti-meta, but i ripped the set off from him. You know what, i'm just gonna link the post.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=311

    Yeah, most kingdra sets give problems to weather once those pesky ferro's and jellicent are out of the way.

    So, what are your favorite anti-meta sets? What do you think is very efficient against common cores such as genetrio (Gene+Dugtrio). If you would like to share them, please post here.
  2. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,291
    Another Kingdra set that I think is probably the most anti Metagame Pokemon set in OU right now.

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Hydro Pump
    - Draco Meteor

    Enter, Mixed Rain Dance Kingdra. This set completely ruins Sun, and any other weather at that matter. All Kingdra has to do is come in, set up a Rain Dance, then clean up. He hits from both sides of the attacking spectrum, making sure nothing walls his sweep. Waterfall is mostly for specially defensive Heatran and the pink blobs who don't like to take a rain boosted Waterfall. Hydro Pump destroys pretty much anything, OHKOing even Conkeldurr and Scizor. Draco Meteor is for wall breaking, and demolishing all of the dragons. This bad boy is best used towards the end of the match when Ferrothorn and Jellicent are gone because they completely wall this set. Other than that, Kingdra can be used to either sweep or just to come in and ruin the weather, making Stoutland and Venusaur defenseless.

    I found the best partners for this set are Terrakion and Ferrothorn. Terrakion can come in and destroy Ferrothorn and the pink blobs, while Ferrothorn can completely wall Jellicent and fight back with Power Whip. Heck even Celebi is good against Jellicent too. Although a decent amount of Jellicent carry Ice Beam or Shadow Ball, Celebi can always take at least one, and get all her health back with Giga Drain.
  3. Tobes

    Tobes Have you ever blasted off at the speed of light?
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,483
    OP is a bit too barebones for my taste, locking for now. If the author would PM be a revised OP with more meat to it (i.e., with a stronger definition of anti-metagame, common archetypes, cost-benefits of using a teamslot for anti-metagame, etc. etc.) I'd be more than happy to unlock since this could be a very interesting topic.

    EDIT: Unlocked
  4. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    843
  5. Wizarus

    Wizarus

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    228
    Trick Room deserves a mention here; if not the entire playstyle, at least TR Reuniclus. With Hyper/weather offense more dominant then ever, and stall virtually non-existent, TR is able to thrive. Reuniclus can slaughter entire teams alone.

    [​IMG]

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpA
    IVs: 2 Spe
    Quiet Nature
    -Trick Room
    -Psychic/Psyshock
    -Focus Blast/HP Fire
    -Shadow Ball/HP Fire
  6. ChrisTehAwesome

    ChrisTehAwesome

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    277
    Zoroark is still my favorite anti-meta mon. Illusion with trick is so underrated.

    [​IMG]
    Professor Oak (Zoroark) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Flamethrower
    - Trick

    Most people lead with zoroark when they use him, and it's good to catch an unsuspecting ferrothorn, but midgame is where he really shines due to trick.
  7. ala

    ala
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    4,014
    I just wanted to add onto Mamoswine, who is a great pokemon in BW2 btw. Here is the set I use:

    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Spear/Icicle Crash
    - Superpower

    A couple of things; if you can afford to have another member on your team put down Stealth Rock, it gives you another slot for extra coverage. The main attacking move is obviously Earthquake since it has no drawbacks. Ice Shard is pretty obvious as well. Icicle Spear is interesting and I use it over Icicle Crash because of stuff like Sub/Roost Dragonite who thinks it can just Dragon Tail Mamoswine away. I rarely use it other than against something like Hippowdon but if you don't fear Sub/Roost Dragonite (or Zapdos) then Crash is probably the better option. For the last slot I chose Superpower which hits a good amount of stuff for a lot of damage, including Rotom-W, Balloon Heatran and Ferrothorn.

    You may have noticed that I use Jolly as well. This is mainly to beat Breloom. On the ladder I ran into a couple of Jolly Breloom who outspeed Adamant Mamoswine and KO with Mach Punch. My team was a little weak to Breloom so I switched to Jolly and I find it works much better for me. Some may miss the raw power of Adamant but for that particular team Jolly is superior. I also outspeed any Heatran which is pretty useful.
  8. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Seconding most of the sets posted here, but especially TR Reuniclus. I like to use HP Fire / Focus Blast / Psychic paired with CB Ttar to trap. In speed reliant metagames like this one both TR and RP sweepers are very potent. Reuniclus has fantastic power, decent bulk, and good coverage. All making it a very threatening sweeper. HP Fire is almost exclusively used for Genesect.
  9. StairFall

    StairFall

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    147
    Reuniclus is decent at what it does but I find it has trouble with voltturn in the rain. Genesect (scizor too) do huge amounts of damage with u-turn and rotom rarely runs choice anymore because the specially defensive set is so good. Often times reuniclus just gets walloped with u-turn then blasted with a rain boosted surf or hydro pump from a mon that has no trouble taking an attack.
  10. gengarsnemisis

    gengarsnemisis

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Messages:
    130
    [​IMG]
    Jumpluff @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Sleep Powder
    - Acrobatics
    - Seed Bomb

    Yes, Jumpluff. Jumpluff is the kingdra of sun. It's the fastest pokemon in the game in sun, and can Ohk0 90% of pokemon on a sun team after one sd (ok, an exaggeration). But, if you have a jumpluff and your facing a sun team its pretty much a gimme. Also great against HO teams, completely running through its frail sweepers.
  11. StairFall

    StairFall

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    147
    I far prefer the sub seed variant of Jumpluff because even with an SD it isn't particularily powerful. It's stabs are walled by steel types alone and heatran especially trashes it. Yes you have sleep powder but that's good for one pokemon only. Any strong physical wall can take it out with it's extreme frailty, not too mention many of the pokemon that wall you often carry t-wave. It seems like the kind of thing you'd carry as an emergency check to venusaur instead of your own sun team but unlike Kingdra it's garbage outside of sun so you may as well start the battle 5-6 if the opponent doesn't have sun. Kingdra has DD and dragon STAB, jumpluff has speed equivalent to Gengar and the firepower of a fluffy cloud.
  12. gengarsnemisis

    gengarsnemisis

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Messages:
    130
    Ok, he's no kingdra, but the pink puffball isn't just "deadweight" against non-sun teams. For one he can plow through frail HO teams, he has a very fast status in sleep powder actually putting you up 6-5 and he can check fighting types like Keldeo with ease.
  13. NoUserName

    NoUserName

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    483
    About TR Reuniclus, I'm going to copypaste that I have said in another thread since it is related to the topic:

    Reuniclus is a great pokemon in the current metagame with the TR set.
    Just point out that Psychic is ten thousand times better than Psyshock, Psyshock is too weak and cannot kill things such as Gliscor,
    Psyshock only is notably useful against pink blobs and Gastrodon and HP Fire is better than Focus Miss if Tyranitar and Heatran are already covered, because it can 100% KO Genesects in the switch(and Scizors) out of rain, and even in rain there is a good chance after SR, and it is not going to miss like Focus Miss.
    Keldeo for instance can cover Scizor, Tyranitar and the blobs, making Psyshock and Focus Blast less necessary. Also can cover Gastrodon if Spec'd or CM with Secret Sword.

    Shadow Ball is necessary for the Lati twins, Starmie, Espeon, Alakazam and other Reuniclus.

    I can't count how many times it saved me, I specially remember to win a 1-3 after using TR twice(a second TR when the first ended)
    And my team isn't focused in TR, is a Balanced team that "slow" Bulky Sweepers of my team can use it.

    192 HP / 64 Def Quiet is very important, because it can survive to 3 CB Close Combats of Jolly Terrakion(41%-49%)with max damage while 252 HP Quiet cannot(43%-51%) and I haven't never noticed any advantage of running the last spread instead of the former.
  14. Turtle Soup

    Turtle Soup

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    88
    The problem with Jumpluff is that that only does it need to set up to basically do any damage at all, it doesn't even get Spore. Missing a Sleep Powder will lose you all offensive momentum and in some cases even the Poke itself. Not like giving it Spore would make it on par with Breloom or anything but it would be definitely make it less risky to use.
    Well at least it look good in pink.
  15. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    773
    Anti metagame?

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-H @ Leftovers | Levitate
    Calm | 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Thunder Wave
    - Pain Split

    Of course, requires Spin / Magic Bounce support, but it checks a huge number of threats that can be incredibly annoying in this meta. Tornadus-T can't do anything against this, and Genesect is in the same situation (even odd HP Ground variants); Dugtrio won't help either, since Rotom is unaffected by Arena Trap. Water attacks cripple this thing beyond repair, but guess what? If you try to switch a Water poke into it, you're probably met with Volt Switch, status, or Pain Split, so even that's not an easy choice. It can even tank a +2 Sludge Bomb from Venusaur (if Rotom is full HP) if it need to, and Specs Latios Draco Meteor cannot OHKO, meaning that Rotom is also an all right special wall if it needs to do so. Overall a solid choice for any team designed to keep hazards away from the field.
  16. Phazon00

    Phazon00

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    167
    Definitely Thunder Wave is my preference. Will-O-Wisp can help, but this Rotom is primarily Specially Defensive, plus Rotom-W is better at burning. And there are many, many better users of Toxic, like Vaporeon for example.
  17. Manitary

    Manitary

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    277
    Rotom-H totally wall Genesect even with HP ground because of Levitate, maybe you wanted to say HP rock (yeah I tought about it only to kill levitate/air balloon fire-types, but you are still walled by heatran)
  18. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    @the Jumpluff above; got ninja'd on the way
    You would be right if every sun team consisted only of frail Grass sweeper, Infernape and Volcarona. Which, of course, is not right.
    In the moment I don't see it getting past Heatran, who is very high in the usage list of its own. Without the flying gem it will be a 4HKO on the specially defensive one; in the case you have SR its gonna be a 3HKO against Forretress, who can put a huge dent into Jumpluff with Gyro Ball and it get hurt badly by Sableye's WoW, the premier spinblocker of the sun.

    Come to think of there may be something similar:

    [​IMG]
    Shiftry @ Life Orb
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spe
    EVs: 112 Atk / 220 SpA / 176 Spe
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sucker Punch
    - Low Kick / Nature Power
    - Hidden Power Fire

    You might say it looks exactly like the one in the Smogon analysis, then you are right. It's just that this set covers a good bunch of meta mons out there. Leaf Storm OHKOs Politoeds expect for some oddballs with maximum SDef (are only likely to be OHKOed after SR) and mixed Hippodowns. It has a chance to OHKO Gliscor after SR. Sucker Punch allows us to check Latios, Gengar and Alakazam under every weather conditions for it OHKOs anyone of them. Hidden Power Fire 2HKOs Ferrothorn, OHKOs in sun after SR, but unfortunately doesn't 2HKO it in Rain. Its speed made to outspeed every single OU treat under sun, even those weird scarf Gengars and scarf Latios'.
    This set is intended to be used with Ninetales but also works against sun. In that case it is advised to drop Low Kick and to take Nature Power's Earthquake because it is the only way to reliably get rid of Ninetales and Heatran. The latter one still takes a huge dent from Low Kick but usually doesn't die from it. This set has its problems against Flying/Dragon types so it is advised to keep them in check, for example with Heatran or Mamoswine, the latter being able to hurt Blissey. Scarf Terrakion may work, too when Stone Miss is not too unappealing.
  19. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    773
    I said that Genesect can't touch Rotom even if it have HP Ground, so we're saying the same thing, it seems to me. Noone uses HP Rock on Genesect anyway...
  20. StairFall

    StairFall

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    147
    Genesect could run HP water because it synergizes so well with rain teams. That hits both Heatran and Rotom-H for SE damage and gets a boost.
  21. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex This game sucks. Ban everything and it might not.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    555
    If you're running Genesect on the rain, the neutral coverage Bug buzz provides is a lot more useful than the incredibly niche coverage HP water would give. Heatran doesn't appreciate taking repeated Thunders and Rotom-H is stealth rock weak and has a very difficult time switching in on many threats in the rain anyway.
  22. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    843
    Hey, I really like the jumpluff set. But what sets this apart from Sawsbuck? and other pokes. Also, isn't jumpluff's attack base 50? I need some replays to see this set actually do work. Also, I wanna use it on a team. What are good partners? Is it good in Sun or just against Sun. I see Rotom-W and Infernape being good partners to make a FWG core and Rotom-W can deal with Mamoswine.
  23. Enguarde

    Enguarde Fool!
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    560
    After a swords dance Jumpluff reaches 418 attack with those ev's and a flying gem acrobatics is definitely going to hurt those that don't resist it. I've used it before in NU, and had its pretty damn hard to outspeed under sun in OU (Where I've fallen victim to one before pretty badly). Definitely scary as a late game sweeper.
  24. Goutland

    Goutland

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    158
    I don't really see how Shiftry and Jumpluff fulfill any anti-metagame roles with these sets. The sets posted just seem like normal sun sweeper sets, not actually countering any specific prevalent threats. I just see them as different flavors of Venusaur with different coverage and speed tiers. Venusaur can even run sleep powder + set up move (growth) like Jumpluff can. It's pretty meta if you ask me. It can be anti-meta if you run them without sun (which you probably shouldn't do because sun isn't as common), but otherwise you're just equating "anti-metagame" with "underused set".

    When I think of anti-meta, I think of things like Gastrodon and Kingdra, countering rain, or TR Reuniclus, shitting on HO teams which have nothing to take its powerful hits for duration of the trick room. Anti-metagame pokemon don't have to be rarely seen ones at all, as in Gastrodon's case. Taking the definitions from the OP, metagame is what's expected, and anti-metagame is what counters it. This can include non standard sets on standard pokemon, but just being unexpected doesn't really fit either.

    Anyway a cool one I saw in an RMT was Golurk, being a complete counter to Terrakion, and able to live Tornadus-T's hurricane and OHKO after rocks and life orb with ice punch and little attack investment. With the defensive EV spread in the on-site analysis, Terrakion's stone edge does 23% max, allowing you to sub punch, set up rocks, or predict a switch. It can also revenge kill Scizor and 4x ice weak dragons, but a lot of things can already do those anyway though. If you need all of these, Golurk might be your man, but otherwise not really a great choice because it's threatened by so much, despite its bulk.
  25. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    TR Bronzong has massive anti-metagame potential. With Levitate, it has no weakness in rain (Haxorus is so rare these days), and Gyro ball hits this fast paced meta pretty hard, walled only by some steels, and EQ gets rid of Magnezones and Heatrans. Zong can even run psychic to nail Keldeo who may otherwise give it problems.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)