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Applying to college
- Thread starter xenu
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All I can definitively say as an incoming UVA student is that being a double legacy probably helped. That being said, UVA was my sixth choice after 5 schools where I was definitely qualified for but didn't even get wait listed by. If you have 2-3 safeties you are happy with, your application strategy should be to start early and apply to as many reach schools as you can comfortably handle applications for.
Georgia tech is an excellent school for any engineering field that is relatively easier for OOS applicants (about 55% in state compared to Virginia's 70).
Georgia tech is an excellent school for any engineering field that is relatively easier for OOS applicants (about 55% in state compared to Virginia's 70).
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Hello all,
I'm a high school junior, soon-to-be senior, and I'm looking for a bit of advice on applications and anything helpful regarding college.
I've visited a number of schools, and so far my choices are ranked as follows: 1. UVA, 2. William and Mary, 3. Washington and Lee, 4. Duke. Does anyone have any experience and/or advice for applying/attending these schools? Also, I know colleges say they don't stress certain areas too much for applications, but what is it really like? I'm strong academically, but I'm decent in other areas to varying degrees. I started swim team in sophomore year and will continue, I'm in four honor societies, several other clubs, I'm running for leadership positions in both, and I volunteer at the local library every Saturday for the past year and continuing. I know this sounds paranoid, but I'm still afraid I'm not doing enough to ensure I get into the school I want (and I'm not exaggerating when I say I want to attend UVA more than any other school I've looked at. Not getting in would crush me). Am I worrying too much? Is there something else I should be doing?
Thanks in advance, and sorry for the wall of text.
I'm a high school junior, soon-to-be senior, and I'm looking for a bit of advice on applications and anything helpful regarding college.
I've visited a number of schools, and so far my choices are ranked as follows: 1. UVA, 2. William and Mary, 3. Washington and Lee, 4. Duke. Does anyone have any experience and/or advice for applying/attending these schools? Also, I know colleges say they don't stress certain areas too much for applications, but what is it really like? I'm strong academically, but I'm decent in other areas to varying degrees. I started swim team in sophomore year and will continue, I'm in four honor societies, several other clubs, I'm running for leadership positions in both, and I volunteer at the local library every Saturday for the past year and continuing. I know this sounds paranoid, but I'm still afraid I'm not doing enough to ensure I get into the school I want (and I'm not exaggerating when I say I want to attend UVA more than any other school I've looked at. Not getting in would crush me). Am I worrying too much? Is there something else I should be doing?
Thanks in advance, and sorry for the wall of text.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
warned in advance: i'm cynical as hell after having just gone through this shit myself
It's good to see that you volunteer at the library every saturday. volunteer work is a great way to pad a college application. That being said, a couple of questions: is this a library in a middle-class or affluent neighborhood? A primarily white or primarily non-white one? In the world of college applications, volunteering doesn't really count unless it's for poor people, and volunteering for poor white people is only one hundredth as useful as volunteering for poor non-white people. If your library doesn't fill the quota, this summer might be a good place to sneak in a missions trip to Africa or Haiti. Bonus points: they make great essay material as you bullshit about the suffering you witnessed and how these people were happy and it changed your life when you realized how blessed you were etc etc.
"strong academically" isn't really enough to go on for me to estimate your chances of getting into UVA. Had you chosen lacrosse or football as your sport it would be a different story—a kid in my class got into Dartmouth with a 1760 SAT (on his sixth retake) because he plays lacrosse—but swimming doesn't bring in much revenue to the school so your academic strength really will be a major factor. Still, if you're good enough to be a walk-on, that could help with your application. Then again, if you're not, and are just doing swim team because you enjoy staying active and the camaraderie of the team, then despite your hours of daily dedication and the mental strength required to play a sport, it means about as much to the college as being in the anime club.
four honor societies and several other clubs does bode well on your college application for sure. Have these clubs done anything noteworthy (win a competition, invent cold fusion) or do they just exist to exist? Either way, being the leader of a club is pretty nice.
one thing i heard on basically every college tour i went on was the refrain "you don't have to do anything great to get into our college, our college is where you do great things." that's bullshit. If there's anything you're interested in where it wouldn't take many funds to conduct some research and write a paper on it, that should really help you get into college.
I'm my class's valedictorian and ran on a twice state champion cross country team and I got rejected from my top two schools so the answer is you can never be too safe, and don't be upset if you do get rejected from UVA. That being said, you probably have a decent shot at getting in—again, depending on what "strong" means.
I don't think where I live really counts as a "middle-class" area, and I do see lots of people come though the place that look like they could use some help. I honestly chose the library because I love books and reading and whatnot, and I plan on being an English major. Should I try increasing how many times a week I go?
Regarding academics, I have straight A's except for 3 semesters of science (1 chem, 2 physics), and I take every class at honors or AP if I can. So far I've completed 5 AP classes, and I'll be taking 7 next year. I have a 2260 SAT and I'll be taking two Subject Tests in June. I'm not worried about academics at all, it's the emphasis everyone seems to be putting on "well-rounded-ness" that's getting to me.
I do unfortunately fall into the "do the sport for physical activity" camp, and I don't plan on playing professionally, so I guess that won't be much use.
Well I'm in the Writing, Book, and French clubs, and I started a Pottery one this year. The first three haven't done anything noteworthy, but the Pottery one was able to create some pieces to donate to the school auction. Next year I'll be head of most of these, and I'll definitely get more stuff done in each one.
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, I honestly feel better about my chances now. ^ ^
(Sorry for the bigger wall of text, everyone)
Stratos
Banned deucer.
those are the numbers I like to see! usually when people say they are "strong academically" instead of giving specifics they are overvaluing themselves; however it is obvious that you are not among them. it's a shame about the b's of course but since you're shooting to major in literature that should be less of a problem than it would otherwise be.
while i am making sure to reiterate what i said in my previous post—there are funky cases both directions of people who should definitely get in not getting in and people who should definitely not getting in, so you should not feel bad if you are rejected because college applications is a shitty process designed by shitty people—you're probably going to get in with those credentials assuming you can pull straight A's in your first semester of senior year. Of course, the things I said in my previous post still apply but if you're too lazy to go to haiti or develop an aids vaccine this summer, you have a greater than zero chance of making it. That said, if you really really want to get in and can't stomach the thought of not making it, i'd consider getting a paper published (try mailing a short story to local literary magazines perhaps?) Of course, if money is an object, then I'd definitely try to get published to make myself a more attractive scholarship applicant.
Another idea would be getting a recommendation letter from someone important like a congressman or senator. If you don't know any of them then this will be harder, but if your orbit ever collides with one you should aim for the throat with impressing them and try to coerce them into writing you a letter. Alternatively, you can send them what basically amounts to an application and say "hey look aren't i the greatest write me a letter of rec" but if you are socially stunted like me then this is too awkward and you'd rather get rejected than seem like a fool—if not, this is a good option.
a last bit of advice i have is to do the early application. Every college in the world accepts a higher percent of early than regular applicants, and most give extra scholarship consideration or other perks. So if at all possible start your application as soon as the application goes up so that it'll be done before school starts; otherwise you'll find work quickly piling up and be unable to motivate yourself to get it done until november first. On your application, you can easily play up the "concerned citizen" angle between the pottery club and the library, and the whole entrepreneur/leader/innovator thing with starting a club. i dont actually know how hard uva is to get into, but i have high hopes for you with your impressive resume. Good luck! Don't suffer from senior year burnout too badly; try to enjoy yourself, as hard as it is with a schedule as shitty as yours.
Conversely, don't rush your application to get it in early if you feel there is still room to improve your essays. The acceptance percentage for early decision/action is inflated because recruited athletes commit to their universities via early decision. Legacies will also be applying ED/(SC)EA. Also keep in mind that the people applying to selective institutions early decision/action are going to be the people who a) have their shit together earlier so are probably more likely to be good candidates for admission anyway and b) actually are serious contenders for the university (i.e. not applying to Harvard just because they want to say they applied to Harvard). Applying early might still grant a slight benefit, but the statistics probably make it seem like a bigger advantage than it actually is.
Alternatively, Pwnemon is being perhaps just a wee bit too cynical. Doing the sort of crazy stuff he's mentioning will obviously improve any application, but is only particularly necessary if you're a borderline case. Handle your shit academically and present a good level of consistent effort throughout the duration of high school in a few extracurricular activities. That's all it takes to get into the list of applicants the top colleges are actually considering. After that, it's a crapshoot for anyone. I know plenty of people who had 2300+ SATs (don't worry, your 2260 is great as well) and were top 10 of their class, with good extracurricular involvement who've been rejected from top schools. It's not that they're a bad applicant, or even a mediocre one. Some top schools like to say that they could have rejected every person they admitted and instead accepted their second best wave of applicants and no one would be able to tell the difference.
Because of that, the biggest advice I can give about the whole process is just not to get overcommitted to any one place or to the idea that you have to go to those 4 schools you mentioned (which are all great schools!). Your grades will get you in somewhere and the truly important part of this whole process is to not stress yourself out to the point of burnout. Once you're accepted, the next time anyone will ever ask you about your high school GPA will be never. What seems so important now is important... for now.
Because of that, the biggest advice I can give about the whole process is just not to get overcommitted to any one place or to the idea that you have to go to those 4 schools you mentioned (which are all great schools!). Your grades will get you in somewhere and the truly important part of this whole process is to not stress yourself out to the point of burnout. Once you're accepted, the next time anyone will ever ask you about your high school GPA will be never. What seems so important now is important... for now.
Thanks for the advice everyone! It's incredibly helpful to have advice from others who are going through the application process or have done so more recently, since most adults I've talked to either fall into the "oh your SAT is fantastic you'll be just fine" or "even with all that it'll be incredibly hard to attend the school of you choice" camps.
I'll definitely try to be more open-minded about the possibility of not getting into my top picks- heck, before I went on the tours, UVA was the only university/college I knew I would be ok attending. Not getting in would be disappointing, and I have a laundry list of reasons for why it's my #1 choice, but between seeing other options and getting advice from you guys and some friends, I'm accepting it as a possibility more easily.
I'll definitely try to be more open-minded about the possibility of not getting into my top picks- heck, before I went on the tours, UVA was the only university/college I knew I would be ok attending. Not getting in would be disappointing, and I have a laundry list of reasons for why it's my #1 choice, but between seeing other options and getting advice from you guys and some friends, I'm accepting it as a possibility more easily.
pumpkaboom and Pwnemon , just want to point out that larger schools like UVA are likely to barely consider / completely disregard recommendation letters because they all essentially say the same thing—you're not going to get a bad rec letter unless you were legitimately the worst student ever. Asking a congressman or senator or whatever can actually hurt you because they won't know you as well as your teachers, and colleges will know this. Adding a mission trip just for the sake of a college application is overly cynical, not to mention a waste of time if you don't actually enjoy this kind of service. Not sure if you were just being facetious or overly cynical, Pwnemon, but none of these things are necessary to get into a good school.
That being said, college applications are a crapshoot (just like everyone else has already stated). I felt the same way as you at the beginning of the application process in that I couldn't imagine myself going to a school that was not Rice or Stanford. Like many other people, I was rejected from both, and was honestly extremely disappointed with my college application results. I eventually decided that I'll be attending UCLA next year, and I'm honestly extremely happy with my decision. My point is that no matter whether you are accepted or rejected from your dream school you'll end up loving where you go to college. All of the options you listed seem very realistic, and they're all great schools, so I'm sure you'll be happy with your destination.
Also, just want to add that your SAT really doesn't matter. Anything over 2250 is essentially the same. It's by far and away the least important part of the application.
That being said, college applications are a crapshoot (just like everyone else has already stated). I felt the same way as you at the beginning of the application process in that I couldn't imagine myself going to a school that was not Rice or Stanford. Like many other people, I was rejected from both, and was honestly extremely disappointed with my college application results. I eventually decided that I'll be attending UCLA next year, and I'm honestly extremely happy with my decision. My point is that no matter whether you are accepted or rejected from your dream school you'll end up loving where you go to college. All of the options you listed seem very realistic, and they're all great schools, so I'm sure you'll be happy with your destination.
Also, just want to add that your SAT really doesn't matter. Anything over 2250 is essentially the same. It's by far and away the least important part of the application.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
I didn't say they were necessary to get into a good school at all; i indeed said "you're probably going to get in with those credentials assuming you can pull straight A's in your first semester of senior year." the rest of those things which i suggested were "icing on the cake" measures, as i said, if he REALLY couldn't stomach the thought of getting in. Sorry if i misrepresented this to you pumpkaboom.
Don't worry, you didn't misrepresent it at all. I understand that I have a good chace, but I'll definitely be trying some of your suggestions. I was already planning on getting something published anyways, but hearing that it would be beneficial is all the more reason to do it.
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone makes such a big deal out of them.
Thanks again for all the help guys!
just wanted to say, make sure you know what the fuck you want to do with your life when you go to college. Don't pick a career path / major because of money. I went from undecided to econ to gen business to psychology (protip: dont pick psychology unless youre okay with being poor or plan on getting an advanced degree, or you really like to waste a lot of money). i graduate in december and i still don't know what the fuck im gonna do with my life. it's too late to stop now cause im almost there. but seriously make sure you're okay with either doing a job for the next 40ish years of your life or have a plan b you can enjoy. also try to major in something that cant be outsourced.
I'm going to try and write this post in a way that doesn't seem like me stroking my own accomplishments, as I really could use some feedback as to how rational I'm being.
I live in California, which means that I have the tremendous option of going to a school in the UC system at a very reduced price. Combined with scholarships (private and federal) and other forms of aid, it's very possible that (were I to go to one of these schools) I'd have to spend less than 10,000 dollars a year on tuition (room and board is ofc still a thing). Moreover, most of the UC schools are top-notch universities, so I'm not exactly making a sacrifice.
What I've more or less decided to do is apply solely to the UC system (and maybe one safety school like SDSU). While I think it's certainly feasible that I could get into a prestigious private school (cue horn tooting: high 2200 SAT, 800 math sat2, probably top 10 in class (of about 500, good high school), taken two years of college math as a junior, APs, 4.8 weighted gpa 10-12 if all goes well, etc), I don't think it's reasonable to assume or expect any substantial amount of financial aid from those institutions. My family certainly isn't in the income / assets bracket so that paying for college doesn't matter whatsoever, but they're not also at the point where I can expect to have my education mostly paid for. Moreover, my brother attends UC Berkeley and pays virtually nothing in tuition, so I'd feel somewhat shitty forcing my parents to pay a substantial portion of a 250,000+ 4-year program that only might be marginally better than what I could get at the UC system. I also would rather stray away from hundreds of thousands in student debt.
So, my current plan is to apply solely to UCLA, UCB, USC (they give good scholarships and have pretty good academics), and SDSU, roughly in the preferential order. My questions about this are as follows.
1. Am I being too risky? Is my "rational" dismissal of possibly expensive private school education forcing me to limit my options so much that I could end up not getting in anywhere and have to try and transfer in / wait a year / etc? Although my scores place me well in the range of people who get accepted to the upper-tier UCs, they certainly don't guarantee me entrance - especially given that the system is becoming exponentially more selective year by year, especially for in-state students.
2. Should I go through the process of figuring out the approximate financial burden expected for private schools via their calculators (i've done this for some, and it wasn't a whole lot I didn't expect) and apply to them even though I probably won't be able to afford choosing them, or should I save myself the work and focus on creating great applications for the schools that are most reasonable?
Thanks :3
I live in California, which means that I have the tremendous option of going to a school in the UC system at a very reduced price. Combined with scholarships (private and federal) and other forms of aid, it's very possible that (were I to go to one of these schools) I'd have to spend less than 10,000 dollars a year on tuition (room and board is ofc still a thing). Moreover, most of the UC schools are top-notch universities, so I'm not exactly making a sacrifice.
What I've more or less decided to do is apply solely to the UC system (and maybe one safety school like SDSU). While I think it's certainly feasible that I could get into a prestigious private school (cue horn tooting: high 2200 SAT, 800 math sat2, probably top 10 in class (of about 500, good high school), taken two years of college math as a junior, APs, 4.8 weighted gpa 10-12 if all goes well, etc), I don't think it's reasonable to assume or expect any substantial amount of financial aid from those institutions. My family certainly isn't in the income / assets bracket so that paying for college doesn't matter whatsoever, but they're not also at the point where I can expect to have my education mostly paid for. Moreover, my brother attends UC Berkeley and pays virtually nothing in tuition, so I'd feel somewhat shitty forcing my parents to pay a substantial portion of a 250,000+ 4-year program that only might be marginally better than what I could get at the UC system. I also would rather stray away from hundreds of thousands in student debt.
So, my current plan is to apply solely to UCLA, UCB, USC (they give good scholarships and have pretty good academics), and SDSU, roughly in the preferential order. My questions about this are as follows.
1. Am I being too risky? Is my "rational" dismissal of possibly expensive private school education forcing me to limit my options so much that I could end up not getting in anywhere and have to try and transfer in / wait a year / etc? Although my scores place me well in the range of people who get accepted to the upper-tier UCs, they certainly don't guarantee me entrance - especially given that the system is becoming exponentially more selective year by year, especially for in-state students.
2. Should I go through the process of figuring out the approximate financial burden expected for private schools via their calculators (i've done this for some, and it wasn't a whole lot I didn't expect) and apply to them even though I probably won't be able to afford choosing them, or should I save myself the work and focus on creating great applications for the schools that are most reasonable?
Thanks :3
Okay, a few years ago, as a seventh grader, I got a 24 on the ACT. I wanted to know how far above average that is for my grade, and if I could get into a good college assuming I continue to expand my knowledge. I know it was a 67% for seniors in my state, but can somebody give me an idea of a Senior ACT score that could get me into a decent school like Duke? I understand grades and extracurricular activities matter too, but I have very few problems in those areas. It's the ACT/SAT I'm worried about. Somebody want to help?
damn what the hell you took the act as a seventh grader o.o
don't really think colleges care when you took the ACT/SAT ie a 35 is a 35. high testing scores don't get you into colleges, but they definitely make you an applicant to look at, although blowing it off and submitting a subpar score if your grades indicate you could and should be doing better may make colleges think you are lazy. if you are really that concerned you could always go for tutoring if you can afford it (although self-studying probably works as well if you are disciplined enough). testing won't break or make you but doing better isn't a bad thing. it just won't be the thing that determines whether or not you get into x school as long as it is in the ballpark range of the avg scores of the school you are looking at (google is your friend...)
writing good, strong essays that show you care about getting into a particular private college is something i think you should be more concerned about than fretting obsessively over your test scores.
don't really think colleges care when you took the ACT/SAT ie a 35 is a 35. high testing scores don't get you into colleges, but they definitely make you an applicant to look at, although blowing it off and submitting a subpar score if your grades indicate you could and should be doing better may make colleges think you are lazy. if you are really that concerned you could always go for tutoring if you can afford it (although self-studying probably works as well if you are disciplined enough). testing won't break or make you but doing better isn't a bad thing. it just won't be the thing that determines whether or not you get into x school as long as it is in the ballpark range of the avg scores of the school you are looking at (google is your friend...)
writing good, strong essays that show you care about getting into a particular private college is something i think you should be more concerned about than fretting obsessively over your test scores.
after a certain point (around 2150 sat, 32-33 act), college admissions officers make very little distinction between grades, because at that point its a matter of a couple questions and could be entirely luck-based. i wouldn't say your 7th grade score is indicative of what you'd get now by any means, so just buy a review book and try out a test for yourself.
I got into Duke a couple years ago (didn't go) but I had a 2400 SAT. They told me during Blue Devil Days that they accepted 25% of valedictorians and 50% of people with an overall perfect SAT/ACT score.
I disagree that 2150 is the cutoff for colleges not caring. That's around 25th percentile for most top level schools (Ivy Leagues and equivalent). I think 2300 is a more accurate "they stop caring" cutoff.
I disagree that 2150 is the cutoff for colleges not caring. That's around 25th percentile for most top level schools (Ivy Leagues and equivalent). I think 2300 is a more accurate "they stop caring" cutoff.
it depends on exactly what do you mean by "not caring" cutoff. if you are saying that 2300> will get in over the 2150, I very much disagree with that. if you saying that 2300> has a better chance then maybe i would agree with that. the whole problem with SAT/ACT scores is that they don't really truly indicate the overall intelligence of the person, more of how much effort you want to put in to get the best score. other factors such as grades in school, extracurriculars indicating a strong passion in a certain area are better measures for colleges than 2300 SAT vs 2150 SAT. there are so many qualified applicants for these higher schools that SAT scores will barely ever make the difference (if ever). obviously, you want to do the best you can, as the higher score the better, but i think it is people's interests to spend more time applying to the right schools for them and writing solid essays more than worrying about "if a 2200 is good enough"
Sure, the SAT isn't really a useful indicator of anything, but if you look at Ivy League schools/equivalent, you'll see their median score is usually in the mid 2200s (I think my school is 2240 or something, not really sure - it was around there the year I matriculated I think) with the 25th percentile around 2100, meaning that schools do differentiate amongst the upper ranges. The fact of the matter is, if you have a 2100, you're really not going to be a competitive applicant at Harvard or Yale or even at Cornell or Brown. Yes, once you have a certain score, focus on something else, but don't delude yourself into thinking that 2100 will be viewed the same as 2350 because it very surely will not.
Yes, extracurriculars matter, essays matter, everything matters, but one thing can't really "make up" for another, because they have so many applicants that are outstanding in everything. Being president of key club for 4 years won't really get you anything with a 2100 because there are kids who were class president, sports captains, debate team leaders, AND have a 2350 SAT.
Just my thoughts having been through the process and met people with these qualifications. There are some truly amazing students, being "good enough" isn't good enough anymore.
The SAT works on a rough 6-standarddeviation bell curve (as does the ACT). This means that people above 2100 are in the top 2.5% of all people who take the SATs. It's for this reason that after a certain point distinctions between these scores become irrelevant. The median score may be in the mid 2200s, but that's because everyone who goes to that school is a high achiever, in the top couple of percents. So yes, you are going to have people with high scores. But for every person with a 2400, there has to be someone with an 1800 (obviously not exactly as it's median, but you get the picture). College admissions officers are aware about the fact that the SAT works on a bell curve, so they know that once you get past a certain point (2 standard deviations, for instance), the difference becomes far more marginal. In other words, the difference between an 1800 and a 2100 is far more relevant than the difference between a 2100 and a 2400. There's a lot more variation in the upper scores just because of the nature of the rough scale of the SAT and the fact that one question can shift your score 50 points or more. I never intimated that people should rest on their laurels and relax once they've scored anything over a 2000, but the amount of freaking out from people in the top couple of percent that they "only" got a 2250 is ridiculous because it really is meaningless at that point, and college admissions officers fully understand that.
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