I think a potentially interesting option is running Z-rain dance. Since Z-rain dance boosts your speed too, it would allows you to outspeed several things it couldn't before, even coming off it's mediocre base speed. With max speed investment and a positive nature, Araquanid would be able to outspeed any fully invested, neutral natured base 100, and positive natured base 87. This isn't great on its own, but has the potential to be absolutely devastating against slower teams, or with tailwind/sticky web support.
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Pokémon Araquanid
- Thread starter Jaroda
- Start date
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do you guys belive it's going to hold a niche in OU? i am really having fun with this, it's so fun to click liquidation and see everything dieing, it's typing and bulk it's really nice too, checking a lot of things most notably lando-i, greninja, keldeo, heatran, kingdra in rain and phelomosa.
If you would translate it's ability to stats at lv50 without atk or spatk EV investment, it'd hit 160 base atk and 120 base spatk for water attacks. The numbers change according to lv50 or 100 standards aswell to the EV investment.
TL;DR: Besides it's speed, this thing is a monster. And since it can take even multiple hits without going down and check plenty of hard hitting threats, it's probably gonna make it to OU.
... but uhh I'm no expert at all when it comes to tiers. xD
TL;DR: Besides it's speed, this thing is a monster. And since it can take even multiple hits without going down and check plenty of hard hitting threats, it's probably gonna make it to OU.
... but uhh I'm no expert at all when it comes to tiers. xD
I do think the Liquidation/Scald/Rest/Sleep talk set is really good.
As mentioned above, his base, uninvested attack and special attack is 160 and 120 respectively.
With a relaxed nature, 252/252/4 investments into HP/DEF/SPDEF, his comparable level 50 stats are
175/90(180)/158/70(140)/153/55. Just mammoth offense with water spells and bulk. Honestly, you could run leftovers for defending, or even consider mystic water for a damage increase on all his abilities.
It comfortably checks and counters a multitude of offensive threats while also damaging/threatening burns on the switch. It manhandles Pheromosa like a champ, though she is not likely to stay in against him.
I truly believe this pokemon is the hidden gem of the generation. Almost nothing that can threaten it with serious damage can afford to switch in on either ability.
If he got aqua jet, I'd seriously be running for the hills. It is already ridiculously good without it.
As mentioned above, his base, uninvested attack and special attack is 160 and 120 respectively.
With a relaxed nature, 252/252/4 investments into HP/DEF/SPDEF, his comparable level 50 stats are
175/90(180)/158/70(140)/153/55. Just mammoth offense with water spells and bulk. Honestly, you could run leftovers for defending, or even consider mystic water for a damage increase on all his abilities.
It comfortably checks and counters a multitude of offensive threats while also damaging/threatening burns on the switch. It manhandles Pheromosa like a champ, though she is not likely to stay in against him.
I truly believe this pokemon is the hidden gem of the generation. Almost nothing that can threaten it with serious damage can afford to switch in on either ability.
If he got aqua jet, I'd seriously be running for the hills. It is already ridiculously good without it.
I'm struggling to see why its low HP:SpD ratio makes it a bad Assault Vest user. Goodra's HP:SpD ratio isn't far off from Araquanid's, and it ran an Assault Vest set just fine. 50% more special bulk is 50% more special bulk. It doesn't matter if its stats are balanced or one-sided, it's going to have approximately the same benefit either way.
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 212-250 (76.5 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 142-168 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 270-318 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Rayquaza-Mega: 180-212 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Wobbuffet: 418-492 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Wobbuffet: 278-328 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As far as Assault Vest users go, Araquanid doesn't look all that bad. It doesn't miss out on any super important status moves, it has great special bulk, its typing gives it a unique set of resistances (albeit with a SR weakness), and it can heal a little with Leech Life. Scald burns and Lunge Atk drops also help it take hits from the physical side. It may not have much of a niche in OU, but I can see it working in lower tiers. Even if it doesn't work out in lower tiers, I doubt the HP:SpD ratio will be the reason.
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 212-250 (76.5 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 142-168 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 270-318 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Rayquaza-Mega: 180-212 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Wobbuffet: 418-492 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Wobbuffet: 278-328 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As far as Assault Vest users go, Araquanid doesn't look all that bad. It doesn't miss out on any super important status moves, it has great special bulk, its typing gives it a unique set of resistances (albeit with a SR weakness), and it can heal a little with Leech Life. Scald burns and Lunge Atk drops also help it take hits from the physical side. It may not have much of a niche in OU, but I can see it working in lower tiers. Even if it doesn't work out in lower tiers, I doubt the HP:SpD ratio will be the reason.
For the all out attacker set, how much more dangerous will araquanid be if it had rain support? A good example like against mega aggron and such
http://jake-white.github.io/VGC-Damage-Calculator/
252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron in Rain: 64-76 (36.3 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Water Bubble Araquanid Scald vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Aggron in Rain: 96-114 (54.5 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The main reason in general for running an AV is a bulky switch in to sponge special attacks. Tangrowth and Tornadus were two of the most popular and successful AV users and that's because they acted as pivots with Regenerator to replenish their HP. While Tornadus is also SR weak, Regenerator and its speed offset this. If you weren't going to act as a pivot, it was demonstrated that the longer you intended on staying on the field, the bigger the payoff of running Leftovers over AV became, as Leftovers alleviates passive damage as well, not just special attacks. For every turn you stay in with Araquanid and are not getting hit with a special attack, that's a turn you could of had Leftovers recovery. For most cases in the longrun, AV does not benefit enough over Leftovers. Araquanid does have great attacks to work with, but its low HP means entry hazards are a far more significant threat most of the time, because when they are on the field you will always take damage from them. Tornadus was SR weak too, but it had a Spikes immunity unlike Araquanid, great speed, and Regenerator.
+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 76-90 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 112-132 (64 - 75.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Sure, strong special attacks may hurt a lot less but how many are you honestly switching into and reducing the hits required to KO? With Araquanid's speed and no priority or Regenerator and massive hazard weaknesses, it honestly does not see the benefit from the item that is intended for it.
But hey I'm reasonable. First off, moderators can request I add it if they think its good for reasons I'm missing. Otherwise, show an AV set and say what it can do that other sets or mon can't do better.
EDIT: Actually the best comparison to Araquanid is probably Dragalge. Their stat spreads are virtually identical:
Araquanid: 68/70/92/50/132/42
Dragalge: 65/75/90/97/123/44
Both a slow and specially bulky with mediocre offenses but with an ability that dramatically boosts one or both of their STABs. Bot have good defensive typing and Araquanid is immune to burn while Dragalge immune to Poison, and neither have access to stat boosting moves. Assault Vest was never a recommended item on Dragalge, even if it would hypothetically make a better one than Araquanid having no SR weakness, Scald and Sludge Bomb to spread status, and Dragon Tail for phazing. Yet, I don't even remember it being humored as a good set at the time iirc.
+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 76-90 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 112-132 (64 - 75.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Sure, strong special attacks may hurt a lot less but how many are you honestly switching into and reducing the hits required to KO? With Araquanid's speed and no priority or Regenerator and massive hazard weaknesses, it honestly does not see the benefit from the item that is intended for it.
But hey I'm reasonable. First off, moderators can request I add it if they think its good for reasons I'm missing. Otherwise, show an AV set and say what it can do that other sets or mon can't do better.
EDIT: Actually the best comparison to Araquanid is probably Dragalge. Their stat spreads are virtually identical:
Araquanid: 68/70/92/50/132/42
Dragalge: 65/75/90/97/123/44
Both a slow and specially bulky with mediocre offenses but with an ability that dramatically boosts one or both of their STABs. Bot have good defensive typing and Araquanid is immune to burn while Dragalge immune to Poison, and neither have access to stat boosting moves. Assault Vest was never a recommended item on Dragalge, even if it would hypothetically make a better one than Araquanid having no SR weakness, Scald and Sludge Bomb to spread status, and Dragon Tail for phazing. Yet, I don't even remember it being humored as a good set at the time iirc.
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Not really, but it also didn't have any form of recovery move like Araquanid does in Leech Life. However, I'm still not seeing how AV isn't inferior to other sets here.
AV has the same issues that AV escavalier has, it gives it a little bonus in one stat, but it doesn't help it counter anything particularly or ruin something's day. The only thing AV would be a huge 1v1 difference in is vs. raichu, where araquanid can live a hit and OHKO back. Otherwise there are no special hits you're switching into that AV saves you from, and there's no mons you'd generally bring araquanid in that AV is needed for.
I'm just not seeing a reason to run AV when you can either 2HKO the entire game with band, or break stall / status absorb with rest talk sets. AV seems like you're trying to half its damage and half its bulk when instead you can maximize its bulk (resttalk with scald / power trick) or maximize its attack (no switch ins).
I'm liking leftovers / waterium Z on defensive sets alongside power trick, and choice banded really shows off the damage and its ridiculous honestly. Sub aqua ring is pretty annoying for stall as well.
AV.. I feel like I just don't do enough damage or take enough damage.. its too in between IMO. I find it harder to throw on teams than other sets which I can \ use as a primary nuke / tank.. AV feels like I could be running something better for the "AV damage dealer" role.. it feels like x/y goodra in OU honestly.. its just not quite there.
I'm just not seeing a reason to run AV when you can either 2HKO the entire game with band, or break stall / status absorb with rest talk sets. AV seems like you're trying to half its damage and half its bulk when instead you can maximize its bulk (resttalk with scald / power trick) or maximize its attack (no switch ins).
I'm liking leftovers / waterium Z on defensive sets alongside power trick, and choice banded really shows off the damage and its ridiculous honestly. Sub aqua ring is pretty annoying for stall as well.
AV.. I feel like I just don't do enough damage or take enough damage.. its too in between IMO. I find it harder to throw on teams than other sets which I can \ use as a primary nuke / tank.. AV feels like I could be running something better for the "AV damage dealer" role.. it feels like x/y goodra in OU honestly.. its just not quite there.
Thanks for the reply.
The RestTalk set posted with double Water STABs is totally ridiculous as a tank for Rain teams. It works well defensively with Pelipper as long as you pack an Electric- or Ground-type (desperately wanting Mega Swampert but oh well) so Tapu Koko is a natural fit. While it can't use Rest in Electric Terrain, you can wake up a sleeping Araquanid by switching it in while Electric Terrain is up, like a free Heal Bell. And in the rain, it's the equivalent of possessing Specs Scald and Banded Liquidation, albeit on uninvested attack stats.
0 Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor in Rain: 109-130 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Water Bubble Araquanid Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor in Rain: 94-112 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Doing 70+% to CB Scizor with an uninvested neutral physical attack is absolutely insane.
0 Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor in Rain: 109-130 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Water Bubble Araquanid Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor in Rain: 94-112 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Doing 70+% to CB Scizor with an uninvested neutral physical attack is absolutely insane.
With Aurora Veil support (or screens in general) + the rest talk all water move build
Araquanid's stats go from:
68/70/92/50/132/42
to
68/140/184/100/264/42 798 BST Its offenses on water moves are doubled, and its defenses with aurora veil are doubled.
I legit cannot find a counter to this thing, rest talk does suffer against storm drainers and water absorbers like Volcanion, but then you have to consider the other options it has like a toxic lure set. I guess electric type have to wall break it but which ones can switch in?
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
- Encore
Araquanid @ Leftovers / Waterium Z
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Liquidation
I think toxapex might handle it but it's not exactly capable of killing araquanid itself.
Araquanid's stats go from:
68/70/92/50/132/42
to
68/140/184/100/264/42 798 BST Its offenses on water moves are doubled, and its defenses with aurora veil are doubled.
I legit cannot find a counter to this thing, rest talk does suffer against storm drainers and water absorbers like Volcanion, but then you have to consider the other options it has like a toxic lure set. I guess electric type have to wall break it but which ones can switch in?
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
- Encore
Araquanid @ Leftovers / Waterium Z
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Liquidation
I think toxapex might handle it but it's not exactly capable of killing araquanid itself.
ChestoRest
Araquanid @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
IVs: Atk 0 / SpA 0
Nature Bold
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Power Split
- Rest
A combination of the Power Split and RestTalk sets. I figure after using Power Split on something you are likely to prompt a switch and will be much harder to kill for who you used Power Split on. Thus, a quick boost to full from Chesto Rest will allow you to start using your ridiculously powerful STABs.
Araquanid @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
IVs: Atk 0 / SpA 0
Nature Bold
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Power Split
- Rest
A combination of the Power Split and RestTalk sets. I figure after using Power Split on something you are likely to prompt a switch and will be much harder to kill for who you used Power Split on. Thus, a quick boost to full from Chesto Rest will allow you to start using your ridiculously powerful STABs.
Nice stuff, what are the Atk EVs for out of curiosity (just wondering if I can dump them in Def/Spdef).
Also helps get past Celesteela if needed (although you're obviously outsped).
dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
That's not how the calculation works. The final stat numbers are effectively doubled by those boosts when applicable, not the base stats. A Water Bubble Araquanid with no investment in Attack or Special Attack and a neutral nature has the equivalent of uninvested neutral base 158 Attack and 118 Special Attack when it's using a Water move. The effective numbers for its defenses behind dual screens are base 233-234 (halfway between the resulting stat values) for Defense and well over base 255 Special Defense with the given EV spread and nature (I don't have an exact number for you on the Special Defense because the PS calculator maxes inputs out at base 255 the same way the games do and I can't be bothered to do the math by hand right now).
That being said, I haven't tested whether this Araquanid set is viable on its own yet, but working with A-tales/screen support in general isn't really optimal. The limited number of turns that screens last for doesn't lend itself very well to stall tactics, which take a lot longer to wear down the opponent, and having to switch in your screener a bunch of times to keep that up will just get Ninetales killed and your strategy sunk. Screens are better suited to a hyperoffensive team style where they're just used to buy a couple turns for a powerful boosting sweeper to set up and start wrecking things. Also, I'd advise you not to bother with Waterium-Z on Araquanid. Defensive sets really want that Leftovers recovery and offensive sets want the more consistent power of a Choice Band, despite how attractive that one-time nuke seems at first glance.
So question. If I wanted to pair this up with a Crabominable, would entrainment be good? And maybe frost breath if the Crab has anger point?
Water bubble
Liquidation
Leech Life
Scald/frost breath
Entrainment
And on Crabs side
Iron Fist/Anger Point
Crabhammer
Icehammer
Close Combat
Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Filler
What you guys think? Or do we only consider 1v1 formats in these threads?
Water bubble
Liquidation
Leech Life
Scald/frost breath
Entrainment
And on Crabs side
Iron Fist/Anger Point
Crabhammer
Icehammer
Close Combat
Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Filler
What you guys think? Or do we only consider 1v1 formats in these threads?
What do people think of this
Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP/ ??
?? Nature
- Infestation
- Leech life
- Aqua ring/Protection
- Liquidation
With the pre-rec of you having toxic spikes up or the enemy Mon has some form of residual. You throw this guy out on something that can't handle it. If they switch out you trap a threat that takes 1/4 damage a turn. If they don't switch out you can set up aqua ring safely, then pull your health back up with leech life or out right kill them with liquidation. I do see some problems though with electric/steel/poison switch ins. Probably more wrenches to throw at it that I'm not thinking about, also don't really know good nature or IV spreads for this set.
Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP/ ??
?? Nature
- Infestation
- Leech life
- Aqua ring/Protection
- Liquidation
With the pre-rec of you having toxic spikes up or the enemy Mon has some form of residual. You throw this guy out on something that can't handle it. If they switch out you trap a threat that takes 1/4 damage a turn. If they don't switch out you can set up aqua ring safely, then pull your health back up with leech life or out right kill them with liquidation. I do see some problems though with electric/steel/poison switch ins. Probably more wrenches to throw at it that I'm not thinking about, also don't really know good nature or IV spreads for this set.
dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
For a workable version along these lines, look at chimpact's set a few posts before yours. I see the appeal of Leech Life, but with power as low as Araquanid's is on any move that isn't Water-type (especially if you don't have full Attack investment and CB), it's actually not gonna be recovering much HP because the health you get back depends on the damage the attack does, so you're probably better off with a different move. If you're super attached to the idea of having Bug STAB, Lunge is probably better for the guaranteed Attack drop, but personally I don't know if I'd even go with that. I need to test it more. What I can say is that Aqua Ring doesn't provide enough recovery to be worth using over another move, so I recommend you drop that.
Uncharted Territory has a separate subforum for Doubles OU, and some of the builds from there can be tweaked to work in VGC. These threads here are focused on singles. I don't have enough experience with doubles to make meta calls like this, but I can tell you that lacking Protect in that kind of environment is kinda dangerous because you can get double-targeted, so it's best to keep that in mind when building.
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