Arcanine [QC 2/3] Writing up

[HypnoEmpire]

QC: [Calloflochie] [] []

Taken over from Sapphire.

Fire Doge

Overview
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• Good stats all around
• Intimidate + good bulk + reliable recovery
• Mostly outclassed by other Fire-types in full offensive roles.
• ExtremeSpeed, good coverage options, and good abilities set it apart from other Fire-types offensively.
  
• Stealth Rock weakness.

Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Morning Sun
move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
move 3: Flare Blitz
move 4: Extreme Speed / Roar
ability: Intimidate
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

Moves
========

• Morning Sun + Intimidate is a great combination. The former provides recovery while the latter can make Arcanine temporarily bulky on the physical side.
• Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers. Toxic can be run to chip away at bulky Water-types that usually come in against Arcanine.
• Flare Blitz is for a powerful STAB to prevent Arcanine from being set-up bait, although recoil can suck.
• Extreme Speed allows for Arcanine to pick off weakened attackers.
• Roar can be used to force out special attackers that switch in and helps spread status. Particularly useful with hazard support.

Set Details
========

• Intimidate allows for Arcanine to buffer physical hits a lot better than its stats suggest.
• Max HP and Defense for maximum bulk on the physical side. 248 HP EVs to take less from Stealth Rock.
• Lefties are for recovery.
• An alternative spread of 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe can be run to outpace Adamant Honchkrow and burn it.

Usage Tips
========

• It's a great check to a variety of physical attackers such as Victini, Mienshao, and many others.
• If Arcanine is weakened and doesn't have time to heal up, it is useful as a clutch Intimidator to lower an opponent's Attack before going down.
• Will-O-Wisp/Toxic is generally the safest move to go for earlier in the game to catch walls trying to tank a Flare Blitz.
• Don't use Flare Blitz too often since recoil hurts.
• Morning Sun has low PP, so use it sparingly.

Team Options
========

• Defensive Grass-types to tank Water and Ground moves aimed at Arcanine such as Shaymin or Celebi.
• Anti-Hazard Pokemon such as Mega Blastoise, Aerodactyl, or Starmie. Starmie and Mega Blastoise are particularly useful as they can force out the Ground- and Rock-types that threaten Arcanine.
• Special walls to take on the special attacks that Arcanine can't handle well. They can wall Pokemon that they wouldn't otherwise thanks to Arcanine's Intimidate.
• Wish and Heal Bell support is nice as Morning Sun's PP is low and Arcanine is vulnerable to Toxic.

Offensive
########
name: Offensive
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Extreme Speed
move 3: Close Combat
move 4: Wild Charge / Crunch
ability: Flash Fire / Intimidate
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Moves
========

• Flare Blitz hits hard and is Arcanine's best STAB.
• Extreme Speed allows for Arcanine to hit faster threats and take them out if they've been adequately weakened.
• Close Combat is for Rhyperior, Mega Houndoom, and Hydreigon
• Wild Charge to hit bulky Water-types.
• Crunch hits Victini and Chandelure for super effective damage.

Set Details
========

• EVs maximize Attack and Speed while an Adamant nature is chosen because Arcanine functions as a wallbreaker and needs to deal as much damage to walls as it can manage.
• Flash Fire can give Arcanine a free switch-in on a predicted Fire-type move.
• Intimidate can be run to give Arcanine a better time switching in against physical attackers.
• Life Orb to switch moves at the cost of recoil. Because of reliance on recoil moves like Flare Blitz, Choice Band can be run as well, but inability to switch moves is not too great.

Usage Tips
========

• Functions as a wall breaker and can occasionally revenge kill and clean up late-game thanks to Extreme Speed.
• Switch into a predicted Fire-type move if running Flash Fire. If running Intimidate, then try to switch in safely.

Team Options
========

• Rapid Spin and Defog support is great for Arcanine from Pokemon such as Mega Blastoise and Empoleon. Mega Blastoise is also useful in taking out Rock- and Ground-types that threaten Arcanine.
• Grass-types such as Shaymin and Celebi to take care of bulky Water-types as well as Rhyperior.
• Bulky teammates such as Florges and Umbreon to take hits for Arcanine.

Other Options
########

• Special attacking set.
• Howl boosting set.

Checks & Counters
########

**Entry Hazards**: Entry hazards of any kind from Pokemon such as Forretress and Nidoqueen can severaly lower Arcanine's life span.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Strong Special attackers such as Chandelure, Nidoking, and Mega Ampharos can switch into defensive Arcanine fairly easily and can proceed to OHKO or 2HKO it, especially the former of the three since it only fears Toxic and if it runs Substitute, even that isn't a problem.

**Bulky Water-types**: If Arcanine lacks Wild Charge, then they can bulk out most attacks and stall it out. Swampert in particular is immune to Wild Charge, resists Flare Blitz, and takes neutral from other coverage.

**Faster Pokemon**: While they can struggle to switch in safely, faster Pokemon, especially ones that resist Extreme Speed, can threaten to KO offensive Arcanine. Some examples of these are Mega Aerodactyl, Flygon, and Hydreigon.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Did I seriously get this OP? Ernesto you should have told me :( Okay, I'll drop Pelipper I guess. Thank you Ernesto :D

 

[HypnoEmpire]

This is definitely ready for QC now.

 

[Jellied Eels]

I really like defensive Arcanine so I guess I'll give you a few comments on that particular set.

• I would mention that you can creep Adamant Honchkrow by running 64 Speed EVs. This is kinda iffy because you need to be at max health to survive two BBs after SR damage but it is still nice to be able to burn it after it kills something

Calcs

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Arcanine: 160-188 (41.7 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb burned Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Arcanine: 79-94 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

• I think Toxic should be moved up from OO if not slashed next to WoW on the actual set. Many of the physical threats Arcanine switches into aren't affected by burn (obviously Victini, Darm, and Nape but Heracross as well) whereas Toxic cripples the bulky waters switching in
• a SpDef spread has value to serve as a check to NP Infernape and a bunch of other stuff (think Doomers, Luke, Roserade...) while still doing okay vs. like scarf Fire-types

Also as much as I dislike the offensive set you should stress the few things that set it apart from Tini/Darm/Entei namely ESpeed + coverage on bulky waters, and good abilities

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Nasty Plot Infernape and Mega Houndoom 2HKO a SpD spread easily. With the Water-types that run rampant, a SpD spread is pretty bad and it doesn't have much that separate it from other Pokemon.

 

[Lumari]

Hey Hypno I think you should reconsider the nature on the offensive set, personally I would prefer Adamant. I don't think Jolly hits enough noteworthy targets, whereas more power is always better of course.
The mons that are UU by usage that you could potentially outspeed with Jolly are: Infernape, Galvantula, Mienshao, Tentacruel, Entei, Celebi, Flygon, Jirachi, Shaymin, Victini, and Hydreigon. Most of these tend to run speed boosting natures, however, leaving only Tentacruel (who doesn't run full speed), Entei (who you don't really wanna stay in against anyway because Stone Edge), and Celebi and Jirachi (who run speed boosting natures on their offensive sets, and don't run full speed on their defensive/support sets). (I got the natures mostly from their analyses, so I could be wrong in less clear-cut cases such as Victini).
The mons that are UU by usage that could potentially outspeed Adamant Arcanine are: Krookodile, Roserade, Lucario, Rotom-H, Nidoking, Heracross, Kingdra, Fletchinder, and Suicune. Of these, most don't tend to run speed boosting natures (for the exact same reason, it doesn't hit anything noteworthy), only offensive Krookodile and Roserade do (and maybe Nidoking, its analysis says Timid but frs I thought it usually ran Modest). (Again, I got the natures mostly from their analyses, I can't really picture if it's notably different on the ladder).

So basically, the only relevant targets you outspeed with Adamant you wouldn't outspeed with Jolly are some Krookodile and Roserade (and possibly Nidoking, who can hit back quite hard anyway). Not to mention you've got Extremespeed, making speed less of a priority (pun not intended). Just my two cents though, it's your decision of course :) it's just that you can't simply say 'more speed is always better'

For the record: 95+ base speed ties with neutral 109 base speed, 82+ base speed ties with neutral 95 base speed, so you can check for yourself if there's anything I missed.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Hey Hypno I think you should reconsider the nature on the offensive set, personally I would prefer Adamant. I don't think Jolly hits enough noteworthy targets, whereas more power is always better of course.
The mons that are UU by usage that you could potentially outspeed with Jolly are: Infernape, Galvantula, Mienshao, Tentacruel, Entei, Celebi, Flygon, Jirachi, Shaymin, Victini, and Hydreigon. Most of these tend to run speed boosting natures, however, leaving only Tentacruel (who doesn't run full speed), Entei (who you don't really wanna stay in against anyway because Stone Edge), and Celebi and Jirachi (who run speed boosting natures on their offensive sets, and don't run full speed on their defensive/support sets). (I got the natures mostly from their analyses, so I could be wrong in less clear-cut cases such as Victini).
The mons that are UU by usage that could potentially outspeed Adamant Arcanine are: Krookodile, Roserade, Lucario, Rotom-H, Nidoking, Heracross, Kingdra, Fletchinder, and Suicune. Of these, most don't tend to run speed boosting natures (for the exact same reason, it doesn't hit anything noteworthy), only offensive Krookodile and Roserade do (and maybe Nidoking, its analysis says Timid but frs I thought it usually ran Modest). (Again, I got the natures mostly from their analyses, I can't really picture if it's notably different on the ladder).

So basically, the only relevant targets you outspeed with Adamant you wouldn't outspeed with Jolly are some Krookodile and Roserade (and possibly Nidoking, who can hit back quite hard anyway). Not to mention you've got Extremespeed, making speed less of a priority (pun not intended). Just my two cents though, it's your decision of course :) it's just that you can't simply say 'more speed is always better'

For the record: 95+ base speed ties with neutral 109 base speed, 82+ base speed ties with neutral 95 base speed, so you can check for yourself if there's anything I missed.

It was Adamant in the original post, but Jolly outspeeds Lucario, which can't OHKO back within a priority move at +2 (not factoring in Stealth Rock of course). It outspeeds offensive Roserade, Porygon-Z, Nidoking, and other Pokemon around that speed tier. It also speed ties with Darmanitan (assuming it isn't Scarfed). So, Jolly makes offensive Arcanine less of a liability against offensive teams. However, because of these calcs:

252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 169-200 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I decided that I will slash Adamant before Jolly. It's supposed to function more as a wallbreaker anyway. Please note that the first one has Adamant + LO while the second has Jolly + Band.

 

[Lumari]

It was Adamant in the original post, but Jolly outspeeds Lucario, which can't OHKO back within a priority move at +2 (not factoring in Stealth Rock of course). It outspeeds offensive Roserade, Porygon-Z, Nidoking, and other Pokemon around that speed tier. It also speed ties with Darmanitan (assuming it isn't Scarfed). So, Jolly makes offensive Arcanine less of a liability against offensive teams. However, because of these calcs:

252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 169-200 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I decided that I will slash Adamant before Jolly. It's supposed to function more as a wallbreaker anyway. Please note that the first one has Adamant + LO while the second has Jolly + Band.

I think 'liability' is a little too harsh, as he still beats Adamant Luke (standard nature and far more common) and still has Extremespeed to deal solid damage against those other threats, but w/e. I like how you put the set now, I only think you're overstating his reliance on speed a little, but that's just a nitpick :)

 

[watashi]

adamant lucario is far more common than jolly, so adamant would be the better nature since arcanine needs the power to keep up with darmanitan, entei, and victini. for example, it has a 50% chance to ohko slowbro after stealth rocks damage and leftovers with wild charge as opposed to 0

slash roar with extremespeed on the defensive set

 

[HypnoEmpire]

adamant lucario is far more common than jolly, so adamant would be the better nature since arcanine needs the power to keep up with darmanitan, entei, and victini. for example, it has a 50% chance to ohko slowbro after stealth rocks damage and leftovers with wild charge as opposed to 0

slash roar with extremespeed on the defensive set

I posted that example above :P Anyway, I made those changes.

 

[KM]

toxic should be slashed with wow on defensive set, as it fucks over bulky waters (common switchins) more than wow does.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

toxic should be slashed with wow on defensive set, as it fucks over bulky waters (common switchins) more than wow does.

Alright, the reasoning makes sense. I've sashed Toxic. If there are any more mistakes or changes I need to make, someone please let me know. Otherwise, this is QC ready.

 

[Calloflochie]

-Seriously competition defensively - Could you elaborate on what defensively does it's job better? Arcanine is one of the few counters in the entire tier to CB Victini which in itself is a pretty huge reason to use Arcanine as a Defensive Wall but if you can provide mons that fill that job better i'd be more than happy for you to keep that mention in overview
-'Defensive Grass-types' - Roserade is by no means a good defensive mon to take Ground hits (namely eq) so change that to Shaymin
-See the offensive set, in my eyes, the reason to use Arcanine is because of it's superior coverage to Entei and I feel that Choice Band severely limits that good coverage that Arcanine possesses so I don't think that CB deserves to be slashed against LO since the coverage is basically the only reason to use Arcanine over a similar CB user in Entei. Still mention it in set details since LO recoil + FB recoil can be a problem in conjunction with SR but I don't think it warrants CB getting a slash
-Remove Roar from OO since it's a slash in a main set
-Again in Team options, remove Roserade and add Celebi + Shaymin since they're the two best Grass-Types in the tier for acting as pivots for Arcanine's weaknesses

Make all those changes and QC 1/3

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Thank you based Deerling, this is ready for a second check.

 

[trc]

So this is something that I've been noticing a lot in a few UU analyses by you and some other users here. To put it simply, your checks and counters section is WAY too short. "**Special Attackers**: Special attackers can dispose of defensive Arcanine rather quickly" is by far not enough to put in an analysis that goes on-site, for one, it doesn't even reference any specific special attackers, and two, it doesn't talk about what they do. I've always been of the opinion that tl;dr =/= good, but there should definitely be a certain length required to maintain quality.

Compare this:

**Entry Hazards**: Entry hazards of any kind from Pokemon such as Forretress and Nidoqueen can severaly lower Arcanine's life span.

**Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers like Nidoking can easily OHKO defensive Arcanine.

**Swampert**: Can take many hits and threaten it out with a STAB move.

**Special Attackers**: Special attackers can dispose of defensive Arcanine rather quickly.

**Bulky Water-types**: If Arcanine lacks Wild Charge, then they can bulk out most attacks and stall it out.

To this:

**Steel-types**: Skarmory is a fantastic switch-in to most of Azumarill's sets, as it resists Play Rough and can avoid the 2HKO from Waterfall. Ferrothorn walls the hell out of any set lacking Superpower because it resists both of Azumarill's STAB moves. Mega Scizor is extremely bulky and can threaten to set up on Aqua Jet or Play Rough. Aegislash can check Azumarill very well with King's Shield, which can harshly lower Azumarill's Attack stat. It can also deal heavy damage with Shadow Ball or set up Swords Dance once Azumarill's Attack stat has been lowered.

**Bulky Water-types**: Rotom-W resists Azumarill's Water-type STAB and can also burn Azumarill with Will-O-Wisp, or it can deal heavy damage to it with an Electric-type attack. RestTalk Gyarados can lower Azumarill's Attack stat with Intimidate and phaze it out with Roar.

**Grass-, Poison-, and Electric-types**: Mega Venusaur is by far the greatest counter to Azumarill in OU, as it resists both of its STAB moves and can threaten back with either Giga Drain or Sludge Bomb. It's also not weak to Ice Punch due to Thick Fat, nor can its item be taken away by Knock Off. Ferrothorn only fears the stray Superpower and is a complete stop to the Belly Drum set. Amoonguss is also a great counter to Azumarill, but it must be careful of a stray Ice Punch. Thundurus, Magnezone, and Mega Manectric are very powerful Electric-types that can deal a ton of damage to Azumarill with Thunderbolt; Mega Manectric can also lower its Attack with Intimidate. Breloom and Gengar outspeed Azumarill and can threaten to OHKO it with their respective STAB moves.

Literally the first OU analysis I could find. Now forgive me if your intention was to expand on this section later on, but as the Checks and Counters section isn't meant to be in skeleton form and this has already received 1 QC check, it is safe to say that it is written..

 

[HypnoEmpire]

TRC I planned to expand every section (including the C&C section) after I wrote it up. If I need to, then I can expand it right now, but I had no intention to leave it as it is.

 

[trc]

TRC I planned to expand every section (including the C&C section) after I wrote it up. If I need to, then I can expand it right now, but I had no intention to leave it as it is.

That is good to hear. I assumed so since I'm sure you would've included more information, but I've seen cases of this in completed UU analyses and I just wanted to make sure.

 

[Kushalos]

Checks & Counters
########

**Entry Hazards**: Entry hazards of any kind from Pokemon such as Forretress and Nidoqueen can severaly lower Arcanine's life span.

**Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers like Nidoking can easily OHKO defensive Arcanine.

**Swampert**: Can take many hits and threaten it out with a STAB move.

**Special Attackers**: Special attackers can dispose of defensive Arcanine rather quickly.

**Bulky Water-types**: If Arcanine lacks Wild Charge, then they can bulk out most attacks and stall it out.

Since when is Swampert not a bulky water type?_?

 

[HypnoEmpire]

It is, but it's immune to Wild Charge. Tbh, I'm not sure why it got its own section.

 

[HypnoEmpire]

Okay, I made a few edits to this. Bumping.

 

[Royalty]

Why is nidoking separated from special attackers? That section should just be strong special attackers like (x), (y), and (z) have no problem switching in on defensive arcanine and proceed to ohko it or force a switch.

Mega Aerodactyl is a pretty big check to the offensive set.

Chandelure counters the defensive set 100% if it doesn't have toxic and if it has sub then even toxic is useless.

Team options need to mention mega blastoise as a spinner and someting that can take out rock types.

 

[Royalty]

QC 2/3

 

[tehy]

Swampert in particular is demolished by Will-o-wisp, dislikes toxic, and...yeah. Countering offensive is nice, but overall it's meh vs. arc. Maybe separate mention to crocune instead.

Chandy still can't switch into toxic.

With the 64 speed spread, you can just morning sun against honch- the first sun heals average 11% after bb, and rocks-lefties round is 19%. Sure you waste pp, but it wastes hp from recoil+LO, and you can feel free to burn or ko w/blitz/espeed.