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Arceus: Deity Of Under Rated Sets

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Theorymon, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Donkey


    Oct 30, 2011
    Utility Spinblocker Arceus-Ghost

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Surf
    - Fire Blast/Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover

    I run this set on a rain balance team that has trouble with Ho-Oh. The alternative to this is running the standard Judgment/Focus Blast/Filler/Recover set (where Filler is either Calm Mind or Will-O-Wisp), which performs poorly when trying to KO spinners that hold Toxic such as Sub Excadrill and Forretress. Excadrill can evade the 70% Focus Blast fairly easily especially if already under a Sub while Forretress will just shrug off the damage, cripple Arceus-Ghost with Toxic, and Pain Split until the switch comes.

    Surf allows you to reliably burst down Excadrill and pokemon like Ho-Oh, Arceus-Ground, Landorus-T, Groudon, while also being able to give you a better typing for chip damage than Focus Blast. Vs a team with a Mewtwo and Darkrai, Judgmenting in prediction of a Mewtwo switch could lose the game if Darkrai switches in and vice versa. Rain boosted, you can do up to 60% vs a Forretress which is great if your team needs your Arceus-Ghost to run a defensive move like WoW rather than Fire Blast, since Fire Blast is generally a bad option on rain teams because it won't do much to Excadrill (around 25-30 percent max). Surf also reliably hammers down Heatran. Reliability is the key word here since Focus Blast, as we all who have used it know, is fucking terrible.

    Like Stone Edge Arceus-Fight (A set which I used 4 times in SPL but unfortunately never got matched against a Ho-Oh), Surf is a niche move that adds a great surprise factor on Arceus. Using underused sets is one of the best ways to be successful in this metagame. The only issue with this set is Tentacruel which with the addition of Latias and Latios has fallen out of favor and is less viable.
  2. lousy918


    Jun 15, 2012
    What does this have over gira-o? Both have 120 offenses, and both get surf.
    only advantages I see is that it has a stronger ghost-type stab, which isn't really a big deal considering uninvested and lack of boosting moves, so it can't hit hard outside of super effective, even sth like rayquaza is taking only like ~35%.
    Another advantage is its high speed, but it isn't really outspeeding anything significant. Gira-o, with 8 EVs, outspeed uninvested base 90s and OHKO those dragons with outrage, while walling groudon. All teams should already pack a switch-in to kyogre, so not gonna mention it. Manaphy just sets up on weak ghostceus, while gira-o can survive unboosted ice beam and deal heavy damage with outrage, scoring a 2hko on all variants, or just go for dragon-tail, which still takes a good chunk out of Manaphy's health, while preventing set-up. Terrakion is usually scarfed, like >70%. Besides gira-o can take a stone edge rather comfortably, OHKOing back with like surf or something. Jirachi, Lugia and the Eon twins still pretty much hard wall you, due to lack of boosting moves. in fact the only things ghostceus does better at is probably kyurem-w, rayquaza, kyurem-b and opposing Arceus that gira-o cannot deal with. Kyurem-w can tank judgement, but the same cannot be said of you and ice beam, or Draco meteor. Rayquaza can survive a judgement, set up and chip off a really large chunk with +1 lo outrage, but fortunately you have WoW to cripple it. As I said earlier, it fares better than gira-o, which is flat out OHKOed iirc. Kyurem-b is really uncommon, but u can WoW, while Gira-O sits there dying. As to Arceus, they are mostly ghostceus and ekiller. Ekiller is handled by ghostceus only when WoW hits, gira-o can phaze but only can take a +2 shadow claw once. Ghostceus is gg lol, but gira-o can revenge kill when below ~37%, while this ghostceus can only make it take danger every turn with a burn.
    Another advantage is of course recover, but gira-o gets recovery in resttalk, which heals status as well, and you did mention toxic forry, and since spinners should not be switching on spinblockers, you will take a toxic, severely crippled. Gira-O has resttalk to heal toxic :)
    Gira-O also hits on the physical side, which is better in ubers due to the ubers having generally lower Def than SDef.
    Gira-O also has a horde of resistance it can use to its advantage, especially water and fire, allowing to effectively spinblock kabutops and wall Ho-Oh if using resttalk, and can still beat kabutops without, possibly beating Ho-Oh too. It is also immune to spikes and toxic spikes, so it spinblocks tentacruel and forry better, while ground immunity is helpful against sand rush excadrill.
    As I mentioned earlier, their surf is similar power if uninvested, hence the "set up bait for forry" is invalid. I know fire blast is slashed, but then u have to drop WoW, meaning rayquaza and kyurem-b, as well as ttar. Besides gira-o gets hp fire, as well as aura sphere and eq.
    EDIT: lol hackmons screwed up my thinking
  3. Donkey


    Oct 30, 2011
    This is a baseless argument. Both spinblockers perform completely different roles and fit on completely different teams. On a team that lacks an Arceus form and needs a spinblocker, Arceus-Ghost is generally a good pickup.

    Not to mention, I posted this set because of the function it performs: it is not one that Arceus-Ghost usually performs. This is the point of this thread.

    If you don't understand the advantages that Arceus-Ghost has over Giratina-O in general then I don't really know what to say. This Arceus-Ghost set can handle spinners while also being able to handle offensive threats like Latias, Latios, Rayquaza, Palkia, Giratina-O, a lot of scarfers, etc, which are not things that Giratina-O can do. How often do you see Giratina-O used as a check to Latias or Latios?
  4. MatchMaster


    Apr 3, 2013
    Always surprised me that Electric Arceus doesn't get much usage.

    Arceus-Electric @ Zap Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power / Recover

    This set gives Electric Arceus its best offensive capabilities. While at first, other more powerful Pokemon might come to mind when looking for an Electric-type, Electric Arceus has a huge movepool, STAB Electric-type moves, great speed, and has the best defenses of all Electric-types. These all merit its use over Zekrom, both formes of Thundurus, and Magnezone. Calm Mind boosts its attacks and makes it harder to revenge. Thunder is preferred over Judgement here, since it has more power. After a Calm Mind, it OHKOs even 248 / 252+ Kyogre after Stealth Rock and 2HKOs the Great Wall Lugia even through Multiscale. It also OHKOs Ho-Oh after a boost. Ice Beam is to provide good coverage alongside Thunder, 2HKOing at worst 252 / 0 Groundon even without a CM and OHKOing Rayquaza and Garchomp. Earth Power is the best all-around coverage move to hit Steel- and Fire Types such as Reshiram and Dialga, who might try to shrug o Thunder and Ice Beam. Recover could be used instead though for longevity.

    As Electric Arceus only has two resistances, it often only has the chance to set up one Calm Mind, and does not have enough power to get past some threeats. Kyurem-W takes little from any of the moves even after a CM, and can pummel it with Draco Meteor or Earth Power. Arceus can run Focus Blast to hit it. Since it still hits Dialga, Steel and Rock Arceus, Terrakion, and Tyranitar, it isn't a bad choice. Its shaky accuracy is troublesome though.
  5. locoghoul


    Apr 29, 2008
    ^ already posted?
  6. trickroom

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 13, 2009
    I am sorry user lousy918, but Giratina cannot learn Surf.

    Agree with Donkey, Giratina-O and Ghost Arceus function differently and Surf can be a niche move on Ghost Arceus because Rapid Spinners these days are usually adapting to beat spinblockers. As mentioned by Donkey, Focus Blast never hits when you need it, Surf just squashes Excadrill in rain and since defensive variants are only found in rain teams anyway. 4 SpA Focus Blast barely take out max Special Defense Forretress in 4 hits which is horrible.

    4 SpA Arceus-Ghost Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 100-118 (28.24 - 33.33%) -- possible 4HKO

    252 SpA Arceus-Ghost Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 122-144 (34.46 - 40.67%) -- 56.03% chance to 3HKO

    252 SpA Arceus-Ghost Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress in rain: 145-171 (40.96 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    4 SpA Arceus-Ghost Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress in rain: 119-141 (33.61 - 39.83%) -- 28.22% chance to 3HKO

    The difference is Surf will not miss and has greater PP. Oh, if you don't know Ghost Arceus can beat Lugia one-on-one, Giratina-O simply fails to do it even with Shadow Ball. The lack of Dragon weakness is huge and Ghost Arceus beats Kyurem-W, Giratina-O has no chance at all. I am not saying Ghost Arceus > Giratina-O because both are equally viable but they have their own advantages.

    Basically Ghost Arceus and Giratina-O have about equal bulk, assuming max EVs for both.
    -Ghost Arceus has Recover, lack of common Dragon- and Ice-type weakness, STAB Judgment which is stronger than any other special Ghost moves, more Speed, outrunning everything up to Thundurus-I and friends.
    -Giratina-O lacks reliable recovery but has more resistances ( Water, Fire, Electric, Grass, Ground are all important ) and can use Rest and Sleep Talk together with double phaze or Outrage, has STAB Dragon which is awesome, Levitate is another huge advantage, flying over Spikes and immunity to Earthquake lets it deal with Sand Rush Excadrill and Groudon better. Dragon Tail lets Giratina-O harass stall teams.

    @Arceus-Electric is posted earlier by someone else. They are also both similar sets and work the same.

    Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Calm Mind
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Fire Blast / Focus Blast
    - Recover

    People always say Arceus-Poison is shit but it has some niche use because it is one of the few Calm Mind Arceus forms who can beat Blissey. Immunity to Toxic is great and another advantage this Arceus has is STAB Sludge Bomb while weaker than Judgment has a gay 30% chance to poison allowing you to wear down opposing Arceus forms faster and Ho-Oh. Think Scald but Sludge Bomb is actually stronger with more awful neutral coverage. Focus Blast or Fire Blast is up to you, both 2HKOes Ferrothorn at +1 and Fire Blast is needed to OHKO Forretress and Skarmory. Focus Blast nails Dialga, Arceus and Heatran hard. Fire Blast however, hits Groudon harder. Mewtwo doesn't like coming in on Sludge Bombs but you need a counter to it. You can use any EV spread depending on your team but I just listed the standard one to at least tie with other max Speed Arceus. Going with max Defense allows you to survive a LO Groudon Earthquake or Mewtwo's Psytrike but you can no longer setup a Calm Mind ahead of certain threats such as Kyurem, Latias, Reshiram and Palkia.

    Toxic Spikes isn't as common as it used to be but absorbing it on the switch in is great.
  7. shrang

    shrang Draw me... like one of your human girls
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2009
    This thing is so troll:


    Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 240 Atk / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
    Nature: Naughty
    - Swords Dance
    - Overheat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake

    I probably look really crazy posting this, but I've used for a couple of battles so far and it has yielded hilarious results. You do need a pretty dedicated team for this, but with it, it's really fun to use. So, ExtremeKiller is walled by a number of things: Groudon, Skarmory and Giratina-A. With this set, Groudon and Skarmory are both OHKOed by Overheat, while Giratina-A can't really do much to you apart from phazing you (Fire-typing conveniently prevents you being burned). If you be very sure to keep SR off the field, you're winning in the long run. Ferrothorn is also nuked, even in the rain. Un-STABed ExtremeSpeed is pretty damn weak, I know, but since people are happy enough using that stupid Ghostceus ExtremeKiller, I think you can get by with this. For some reason when people see me use SD, they switch in a physical wall like Gliscor, totally forgetting they are fighting Fire Arceus, whose only STABs are special, and then get nuked by Overheat. 9.9

    I know I lost this match, but holy shit, this thing works wonders if you play it correctly: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uberssuspecttest-15232085
  8. Haruno

    Haruno Too cute to kill people :]
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 29, 2012
    That's pretty hilarious and I can see it working to an extent but your fireceus really can't do much to gira-o outside of using overheat which for obvious reasons won't be sucessful. Overall it is a pretty cool set undoubtedly that gets past most of ekillers counters/checks bar gira-o and terrakion. Other than that it seems useful.
  9. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Level 2
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 11, 2008
    You could always run Fireceus with Shadow Claw over EQ if you want to muscle past Gira-O that switch in on you, as well as to dent Gira-A harder. Overheat covers the Steel-types that EQ would normally be hitting anyways. Shadow Claw over ExtremeSpeed is also an option if you're willing to give up priority for coverage, though it's often not worth giving up such valuable priority.

    And with Terrakion:
    252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Fire: 278-330 (72.96 - 86.61%)
    If you keep entry hazards off the field, Arceus can beat Terrakion that switch-in with +2 EQ.
  10. Ehrmantraut


    Feb 24, 2013
    Special Arceus-Dragon

    Arceus-Dragon @ Draco Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Earth Power
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind

    This is an awesome set I like using on Arceus. It's simple, 1 Calm Mind 2HKOs almost everything because Judgment-Dragon + Earth Power hits everything neutrally except for the rare Skarmory and the non-existent Bronzong. Blissey/Chansey can take Judgments easily and stall out the battle with Toxic, and after 2 CMs Ferrothorn is usually only 2HKOd by Judgment which is annoying, but still this set can sweep whole teams.
  11. Sheen


    Apr 7, 2011

    Physical-based wall

    Arceus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Recover

    This set is one of the best I've used, and has brought me to the first places on the ladder too. The idea is simple. Will-O-Wisp opposing Arceus/Zekrom/Groudon/Rayquaza/Kyurem-B/etc, and stall with Recover if possible, or set up Swords Dance and proceed to sweep the opponent's team. With this EV spread, this Arceus forme can take a +6 Brick Break from opposing burned Arceus, and stall with Recover. It can even take a +2 Extremespeed or Brick Break so damn good, in case you miss the first WOW, or the opponent has a Lum Berry. Seriously, the only physical attacker that this form is afraid of is Ho-Oh, because of the threat of a burn, but if you can keep stealth rock on the field, that should be enough for it. Mono-normal coverage sucks tho, but that's what team support is for. Calm Mind Ghost Arceus, Giratina-A, Giratina-O and some Dialga/Ho-Oh/Ferrothorn sets are the only concerns for this Arceus forme, but that shouldn't be too hard to stop with propper support.
    This guy has helped a lot late-game, and I really like this over the set on the analysis, because it puts some pressure on the opponent as soon as they see me using Swords Dance. C:

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