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Ubers Arceus-Fairy [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by malefic, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. malefic

    malefic cheers
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    468
    GP: 2/2 (GatoDelFuego / blitzlefan)
    QC: 3/3 (Blue Jay / Fireburn / Melee Mewtwo)

    pretty in pink

    [​IMG]

    Overview
    ########

    Gifted with the new and competitively viable Fairy typing, Fairy Arceus has wasted no time establishing itself as a mainstay in Ubers. Making use of its typing and great all-around base 120 stats to function effectively in both offensive and supportive roles, Fairy Arceus is one of the best Arceus formes this generation and has very few real flaws. Possessing resistances to common and potent offensive types such as Dark and Fighting as well as a coveted immunity to Dragon, Fairy Arceus can comfortably check some of the metagame's most deadly offensive threats, including Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Kangaskhan, Yveltal, and Palkia. However, its Fairy typing is a double-edged sword; the usage of Fairies has led to a corresponding spike in the usage of Steel-types to combat them, and these are naturally a pain for Fairy Arceus to maneuver around. Also, the newly introduced Mega Gengar is able to use its ability, Shadow Tag, along with super effective STAB Poison-type moves to trap and KO Fairy Arceus, which can do little to it in return. Lastly, Fairy Arceus faces competition from other Calm Mind Arceus formes, and has to be wary of super effective coverage moves from Pokemon it otherwise checks.


    Support
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Defog
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    item: Pixie Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Judgment is Fairy Arceus's obligatory STAB move. It hits most targets neutrally for good damage, and hits important targets such as Palkia, Mega Mewtwo X, and Giratina-O super effectively. Recover grants Fairy Arceus the longevity it requires to perform its supportive role throughout the match. Defog clears all entry hazards from both sides of the field; Fairy Arceus can find many opportunities to switch in on Pokemon that it threatens, such as Palkia, and utilize these free turns to use the move. In conjunction with its respectable natural bulk and Fairy typing's neutrality to most types, Fairy Arceus can utilize Will-O-Wisp to check most commonly seen physical attackers, such as Groudon, Mega Kangaskhan, and Extreme Killer Arceus. Toxic is an alternative status move that can be used, having certain merits that distinguish it from Will-O-Wisp. Firstly, Toxic cripples one of Fairy Arceus's most common and potent checks, Ho-Oh, as it switches in. Secondly, Toxic can be used to pressure opposing Defog users, Calm Mind sweepers, and walls such as Lugia better than Will-O-Wisp can, as the cumulative nature of Toxic damage means that Pokemon stricken with it are essentially put on a timer that resets only if they switch out (as opposed to a burnt Pokemon, which can stick around indefinitely as long as it possesses reliable recovery). Note that using Toxic leaves Fairy Arceus practically helpless against the numerous Steel-types that populate the Ubers tier. Aside from the listed moves, Fairy Arceus has a couple of other options. Stone Edge can be run in the third moveslot to KO most variants of Ho-Oh (all of them if Stealth Rock is up). In the same vein, Earthquake hits two of Fairy Arceus's other checks, Mega Gengar and Heatran, super effectively. While being worthwhile options if one's team struggles with these Pokemon, keep in mind that running these moves means that Fairy Arceus will miss out on the general utility a status move provides. Lastly, if your team has an alternative means of keeping entry hazards in check when needed, Roar can be used over Defog to phaze common switch-ins. The most notable of these is Ho-Oh, which is 4x weak to Stealth Rock. Spikes support greatly increases Roar's effectiveness when phazing Steel-type switch-ins that are resistant to Stealth Rock.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum HP EVs allow Fairy Arceus to switch in on many moderately powerful neutral hits, such as Hydro Pump from Palkia in neutral weather. 112 Speed EVs with a Timid nature are used to outspeed everything up to Jolly Garchomp; most significantly, this allows Fairy Arceus to outspeed and KO Timid Palkia with Judgment as well as check Mega Kangaskhan with Will-O-Wisp. The remaining 144 EVs are invested in Defense For Fairy Arceus to better stomach physical hits such as Mewtwo's Psystrike; they also come in handy in the event of a Will-O-Wisp miss against Pokemon such as Life Orb Groudon and Mega Kangaskhan. Alternatively, the 144 EVs can be invested in Special Defense for some added insurance against Palkia and Xerneas; boosted Geomancy Xerneas's Moonblast only has a 31% chance to OHKO Fairy Arceus after Stealth Rock damage. This spread can also better insure Fairy Arceus against +1 / +1 Calm Mind Arceus formes in a pinch; a +1 4 SpA Judgment from a type-neutral Arceus forme has a 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage, as opposed to a guaranteed 2HKO if the 144 SpD EVs are not run. Note that with this spread, Roar should be used as Fairy Arceus's other moves are ineffectual against the Pokemon it is supposed to check.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Make the best of Fairy Arceus's typing by not hesitating to switch it in on Pokemon it can force out with the threat of a burn or a super effective Judgment. Examples of such Pokemon include Mega Mewtwo X, Palkia, and Groudon. However, Fairy Arceus's typing leaves it vulnerable to a popular and potent trapper: Mega Gengar. If you see the opponent has a Gengar in Team Preview, caution should be exercised in switching in Fairy Arceus on Pokemon it checks, especially if Gengar has already Mega Evolved; a simple double switch could doom it. A good way to prevent Mega Gengar from getting the better of Fairy Arceus would be to get prior damage on it before it Mega Evolves; Judgment does 37-43% to 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar and 30-35% to Mega Gengar, meaning that if you hit it once then switch out before it Mega Evolves, it will be hard-pressed to switch in on Fairy Arceus again if Stealth Rock is up. Also, be wary of super effective coverage moves on Pokemon Fairy Arceus otherwise checks, such as Iron Tail and Poison Jab on Mega Mewtwo X and Sludge Bomb on Darkrai. Scout for these moves with your other Pokemon, as far as team structure permits. You should also be careful of switching Fairy Arceus into possible status moves, even if you can force out or KO the user afterwards, as status greatly diminishes Fairy Arceus's supporting capabilities. Paralysis destroys its Speed advantage over many Pokemon, and burn/poison wears away at its health, forcing it to use Recover more than otherwise necessary. Lastly, don't use Defog too hastily (basically, if it benefits your opponent more than you). Spamming Judgment or spreading status is the wiser option over using Defog if the opponent's entry hazard setter can set up hazards again with relative ease.

    Team Options
    ========

    Ground-type Stealth Rock setters such as Landorus-T and Gliscor are good teammates, as they can set up Stealth Rock reliably and consistently and can check Ho-Oh with their typing and physical bulk if the need arises. Similarly, Groudon can be a nice partner, although Drought has the nasty side effect of strengthening Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire. At any rate, none of these Pokemon have the means to switch into Brave Bird/Sacred Fire repeatedly, and the best way to keep Ho-Oh at bay is ensuring Stealth Rock stays up. When choosing among these Stealth Rock setters, keep in mind that each one is unique in the support it provides. Groudon has Drought, learns Fire Punch, and can phaze with Roar/Dragon Tail, Landorus-T can gain momentum with U-turn and has Intimidate, and Gliscor can sponge status from certain Pokemon and can stallbreak with Taunt. Furthermore, having a Ground-type and Fairy Arceus on your team keeps opposing Choice Zekrom users guessing as to which of its STAB moves to use, with mispredictions being duly punished. Curiously enough, Ho-Oh is a much of a friend as it is a foe; it handily checks the Steel-types that give Fairy Arceus a hard time, and is hence a great partner. Kyogre can threaten Fairy Arceus massively with its rain-boosted STAB moves. Palkia is a good partner as it is essentially the only Kyogre check that doesn't compound your team's weakness to Ho-Oh. For that matter, specially defensive Kyogre can be a good teammate as it can check some variants of Palkia as well as Geomancy Xerneas, which can set up on Fairy Arceus.


    Calm Mind
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Thunder / Will-O-Wisp / Psyshock
    item: Pixie Plate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Judgment is the obligatory STAB move. Calm Mind boosts Fairy Arceus's Special Attack and Special Defense by one stage each; at +1 Special Attack, Judgment hits most neutral targets very hard, making this set a formidable mid-to-late-game cleaner. Recover aids Fairy Arceus in setting up multiple Calm Mind boosts, and ensures it can survive to clean up late-game while checking relevant threats early on. In the fourth moveslot, Thunder is slashed first because it hits Ho-Oh super effectively; Ho-Oh is otherwise a major check to Fairy Arceus. Thunder is also useful if your team has problems with specially defensive Kyogre. Next, Will-O-Wisp makes Fairy Arceus a middle ground between sweeper and supporter, allowing it to check physically oriented threats while retaining its ability to clean up late-game with its excellent mono-attacking coverage. In the third slash, Psyshock deserves mention as it allows Fairy Arceus to win Calm Mind wars with opposing Arceus formes by targeting their unboosted Defense stats. A couple of other options can be used in the fourth moveslot. Fire Blast handles pesky Steel-types bar Heatran, and Flamethrower is a weaker but more accurate alternative. Refresh can also be run, but Fairy Arceus is largely outclassed as a status-bypassing sweeper by Water Arceus, notably because the latter handles Ho-Oh better. The main draw of using Refresh Fairy Arceus over Water Arceus is that it can set up on Palkia much more effectively.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum HP EVs make good use of Fairy Arceus's typing and natural bulk, while maximum Speed EVs allow it to outrun everything below its Speed tier and Speed tie any Arceus at worst. Alternatively, run the same spread as support Fairy Arceus (252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe), as both sets share a niche in checking the same threats. If you so wish, investing 96 EVs in SpA allows Fairy Arceus to OHKO 248 HP Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. 88 SpA EVs allow Fairy Arceus to OHKO 0 HP Mega Gengar with +1 Psyshock, and 196 SpA EVs allow it to KO the 248 HP Perish Trapper variant after Stealth Rock damage. The required EVs can be siphoned from HP or Speed; just note that Fairy Arceus should retain enough Speed to outrun Timid Palkia and Jolly Mega Kangaskhan.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Although this set can sweep late-game, don't be hesitant to switch it into the threats it checks, but remain vigilant in steering clear of status moves and super effective coverage moves. Tread lightly around Mega Gengar; you don't want to lose your sweeper to a reckless switch early-game. Furthermore, it is inadvisable to be too hasty in setting up Calm Mind in an attempt to break holes in the opposing team early-to-mid-game, when Fairy Arceus's checks and counters are still healthy. Despite having sweeping potential, this set's main focus is still to stay healthy for the bulk of the game and check relevant threats with its defenses and typing; sweeping should only be attempted late-game, when the opposing team is weakened to the extent that Fairy Arceus can clean up with a single Calm Mind boost.

    Team Options
    ========

    Ground-type Stealth Rock setters make good teammates. Note that using this set means you give up the utility of Defog; while it is not a necessity on every team, you should have a way to keep entry hazards in check. Giratina-O is a good teammate in this regard; besides being able to use Defog, it can also KO Ho-Oh with Stone Edge while Fairy Arceus checks the Dark-types it is weak to. As this set aims to clean with Calm Mind-boosted Judgment late-game, teammates adept at applying offensive pressure on its checks are strongly recommended. An example is Substitute Ho-Oh, which can switch in and set up on the majority of the Steel-types that check Fairy Arceus, following which it can use its dual STAB moves to threaten the opposing team behind the safety of its Substitute. Life Orb Groudon can also accomplish the same feat, threatening a sweep of its own if it manages to switch in on Pokemon such as Ferrothorn or Aegislash that check Fairy Arceus.


    Other Options
    ########

    Thunder Wave can be used on the support set to slow down setup sweepers and cripple Ho-Oh, a common switch-in. However, it doesn't hit anything else of note that would switch into Fairy Arceus. At any rate, it is largely outclassed by Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Perish Song can also be run on the support set, as can Magic Coat. The former prevents an opponent's last Pokemon from sweeping, while the latter is situationally useful in reflecting status moves, entry hazards, and Taunt. Fairy Arceus's typing and bulk allow it to set up dual screens smoothly enough, but it is generally not worthwhile using your team's Arceus forme for this purpose. Lastly, Punishment is a niche option to deal with boosting Gothitelle, an uncommonly seen but nonetheless viable check to Fairy Arceus.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Mega Gengar**: Mega Gengar can trap Fairy Arceus with Shadow Tag and proceed to severely damage, if not outright KO it, with powerful STAB Poison-type moves. It can even force a double KO on boosted Calm Mind Fairy Arceus with Destiny Bond. Fairy Arceus not running Psyshock can do little to it in return.

    **Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh resists Judgment and can threaten Fairy Arceus massively with its powerful dual STAB moves if Fairy Arceus does not run an appropriate coverage move. Along with Mega Gengar, Ho-Oh possesses the most offensive presence among all of Fairy Arceus's good checks.

    **Steel-types**: Simply by virtue of their typing, most Steel-types are a bane to Fairy Arceus. Despite being a relatively rare sight, Steel Arceus is the best of these checks as it possesses reliable recovery and a super effective STAB Judgment to hit Fairy Arceus with. Note that Judgment is a special attack, hence its damage is not affected by burns. However, this also means that Steel Arceus might lose against boosted Calm Mind Fairy Arceus. Heatran is also a prime check, as it is immune to both Will-O-Wisp and Toxic and takes pittance from Fairy Arceus's attacks. It can use Fairy Arceus to set up Stealth Rock, phaze, and/or spread status. Scizor, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Klefki, and Bronzong are all relatively common Pokemon that can check Fairy Arceus with their typing and status moves. All of these Pokemon dislike burns though, as their STAB attack of choice is often physical. Mega Mawile deserves a mention as an uncommon Steel-type that can severely dent Fairy Arceus with STAB Iron Head.

    **Poison-types**: With their favorable typing match-up, Poison-types can check Fairy Arceus effectively. Poison Arceus checks Fairy Arceus in the same way Steel Arceus does. Amoonguss can remove Calm Mind boosts with Clear Smog, hits Fairy Arceus fairly hard with STAB Sludge Bomb, and takes little damage in return. Tentacruel, albeit being much more uncommon this generation, is still a viable Poison-type that can hit Fairy Arceus with Toxic. Note that Poison types have to watch out for Psyshock if they are aiming to check Calm Mind Fairy Arceus.

    **Kyogre**: Specially defensive Kyogre can phaze Calm Mind Fairy Arceus; Kyogre in general can deal heavy damage to both sets with its rain-boosted STAB moves.

    **Blissey**: Counters both Fairy Arceus sets thanks to its enormous special bulk and access to Toxic.

    **Bulky Fairy-types**: Xerneas can set up with Geomancy and pose a massive threat to Fairy Arceus. Other bulky Fairy-types such as Clefable and Sylveon often carry Toxic, and can use the move in conjunction with their bulk and reliable recovery moves to stall Fairy Arceus out.

    **Status Conditions**: Fairy Arceus loathes status of any sort; paralysis gimps all its sets and burn/poison greatly limits its longevity, deterring it from spamming Judgment or setting up.

    **Mega Mewtwo Y**: Superior Speed and a powerful STAB Psystrike allow Mega Mewtwo Y (as well as Life Orb Mewtwo) to pick off weakened Fairy Arceus.

    **Fairy-Neutral Steel-types**: As Dialga and Mega Lucario do not resist Judgment and do not have access to reliable recovery, they cannot afford to switch in on Fairy Arceus. Furthermore, Mega Lucario has to watch out for Will-O-Wisp. However, they can beat Fairy Arceus one-on-one.

    **Super Effective Coverage Moves**: Similar to how Stone Edge is often run to deal with Ho-Oh, coverage moves are often run by Pokemon Fairy Arceus otherwise checks in order to catch it off-guard. Examples include Iron Tail or Poison Jab on Mega Mewtwo X and Sludge Bomb on Darkrai.

    Skeleton (open)


    pretty in pink

    [​IMG]

    Overview
    ########
    • gifted with the new, unique, and competitively viable fairy typing (great both offensively and defensively) - which it can make great use of with its great all-round stats (offensive potential + natural bulk)
    • allows fairyceus to function in both offensive and supporting roles
    • top-tier mon, one of the better-performing arceus formes this gen with very few real flaws
    • checks many new threats in yveltal, mmx, mega kangaskhan while retaining the ability to check palkia
    • introduction of fairies has led to a spike in the usage of steel types to combat them (mention how 1 of these are on pretty much every team because of the threat geoxern poses); these naturally are a thorn in fairyceus's side
    • has to watch out for coverage moves on things it otherwise checks
    • (notably the cm set) faces competition from other arceus formes

    Support
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Defog
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp /Toxic
    item: Pixie Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    • Judgment is mandatory STAB (mention how Palkia is hit super effectively)
    • Recover ensures fairyceus sticks around to perform its supporting role throughout the match
    • Defog wipes hazards, is a main draw of this set (and is hence not slashed with anything else) as fairyceus can use it very effectively
    • Will-O-Wisp + fairy typing granting neutrality to most types allow fairyceus to check physically-oriented threats in groudon, mega kangaskhan, and ekiller
    • Alternatively, Toxic can cripple Ho-oh on the switch, put opposing support and CM arceus on a timer, and is much more effective against Lugia. This comes at the cost of not being able to touch steel-types, but it has very notable benefits over will-o-wisp
    • Stone edge can be used on move 3 to hit one of fairyceus' prime checks in ho-oh. In the same vein, earthquake can be used to hit heatran and mega gengar (note that roar phazes mega gengar through shadow tag; its stab really hurts fairyceus though)
    • Especially if another teammate has Defog, Roar can be used to phaze ho-oh, which is very useful with reliable hazard support. With a specially defensive spread, certain setup sweepers can also be phazed in a pinch. Predicted Mega Gengar switchins can also be foiled in the interim. Fairyceus will miss the ability to Defog though (mention support arceus are great defoggers), also phazing is in many cases only a short term solution

    Set Details
    ========
    • Max HP allows fairyceus to take and switch in on many moderately powerful neutral hits, such as from palkia in neutral weather
    • 144 Def EVs allow fairyceus to stomach mewtwo's psystrike better, as well as things like adamant groudon's eq and mega kangaskhan's return (in case wow misses, or it can switch in on them in a pinch)
    • Alternatively run max hp, 144 SpD for some added insurance against palkia and xerneas (+2 modest moonblast only has a 31% to ohko after rocks). This spread can also better insure the team against +1 / +1 cm arceus formes in a pinch - a +1 neutral-hitting 4 spa judgment has a 8.2% chance to 2hko after rocks as opposed to a guaranteed 2hko on 0 spD timid. If using this, roar should be run as fairyceus is not doing anything to these things otherwise.
    • either way, remaining 112 EVs in speed with a timid nature to outspeed jolly garchomp

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • switch in aggressively on things it can force out with the threat of burns / super effective judgment. examples include mmx, palkia, non-lo groudon. be wary of super effective coverage moves on things like mmx (iron tail, poison jab) and darkrai (sludge bomb) though (if team structure permits scout for these moves, also dont let fairyceus become sleep fodder especially early game).
    • don't be afraid to switch in on predicted dragon moves if your arceus-form has not been revealed, especially if your team is low on options to take them. actually this extends to most moderately powerful hits - provided fairyceus can force out the user afterwards - because recover can be used to heal off the damage the following turn.
    • if you see ho-oh on the opposing team though, be alert (double switch), as ho-oh is not threatened by fairyceus + can threaten almost any team significantly with its stabs (if roar or stone edge use accordingly of course)
    • don't switch this recklessly into possible status moves, even if you can force out/kill the user afterwards. paralysis destroys its speed advantage over many things, and burn/poison limit the number of times you can switch it in.
    • roar's effectiveness is maximized with hazards up; don't Defog hastily if it benefits your opponent more than you - for example, if a Ho-oh is looking to switch in
    • Spamming judgment or spreading burns / status might also be the wiser option over defogging if the opponent can set hazards up again with relative ease

    Team Options
    ========
    • Ho-oh is a great partner as it destroys the steel-types that plague fairyceus; in return fairyceus clears the field of hazards for it to switch in unhampered
    • Ho-oh is both friend and foe though; keep it in check by making sure sr can be set up reliably. Ground-types like lando-t, groudon, gliscor, are good users and teammates as they can also check ho-oh w their physical bulk if need be. Furthermore they do well against heatran / ferro / aegi. Aside from setting sr, each also provides their own niche to the team (respectively: intimidate + uturn, taunt + status absorption, sun support + fire punch + possible phazing)
    • Note that a ground type + fairyceus keeps zekrom users guessing and this uncertainty can be taken advantage of - all the more making them useful teammates
    • Kyogre can threaten massively with rain-boosted stab; palkia is a good partner as it is the only ogre check that doesn't compound the ho-oh weakness. A Palkia set that can contain spdef Kyogre (so, one with rest) is recommended, as it can get past both fairyceus and Palkia otherwise. Note that running fairyceus essentially leaves you unable to utilize popular clerics in Xerneas and Sylveon, so this is particularly important (mention how Chansey is not recommended bc it also compounds weaknesses)
    • An answer to geoxern is required. Spdef Kyogre actually is a great teammate here, being pretty much the only xern check that does not compound the ho-oh weakness. Scizor is satisfactory too as it can also pivot out of predicted ho-oh switchins with u-turn.

    Calm Mind
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Thunder / Will-O-Wisp / Psyshock
    item: Pixie Plate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    • Judgment is mandatory STAB
    • Calm Mind gives +1 / +1 and possibly allows for fairyceus to clean up lategame
    • Recover for longevity, and facilitates fairyceus's ability to accrue multiple boosts
    • Thunder slashed first because of Ho-Oh, who would otherwise greatly hinder fairyceus's cleanup, also useful if team has spdef ogre problems + takes down lugia faster too. Rain Support recommended if running this
    • Will-O-Wisp so fairyceus can check the same important physical threats as it does in the support set. Fairy has no immunities so mono-attacking set is viable. Sweeping-supporting set that makes the best of fairy typing's neutrality to most types
    • Psyshock most notably allows fairyceus to come up on top of Calm Mind wars with other Arceus. It also hits Ho-oh significantly harder than resisted Judgment
    • Fire Blast can be run as move 4 to exterminate pesky Steel-types bar Heatran; this is pretty situational though, note that ho-oh resists this as well. Flamethrower is a weaker but more accurate alternative
    • Refresh can be run as move 4, however it is largely outclassed as a status-bypassing sweeper by Arceus-Water (notably because it handles Ho-oh better)

    Set Details
    ========
    • Maximum HP and Speed to make use of fairyceus's typing + natural bulk, and outrun everything below its speed tier + speed tie any arceus at worst
    • Alternative, run the same spread as the support set (252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd) as they both have a niche in checking the same physical threats
    • Investing 96 EVs in SpA allows fairyceus to OHKO 248 HP Ho-Oh after rocks; 88 SpA such that 0 HP Mega Gengar is OHKOed with +1 Psyshock (196 to kill 248 HP perish trapper variant after rocks)

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Largely the same as the support set
    • Do not set up calm mind rashly and attempt to break holes early-mid game, (basically as far as checks and counters still exist); this set's main focus is still to stay healthy and check stuff, sweeping should only be attempted late game, when teams weakened sufficiently for this set to clean up with its good speed + strong stab
    • If anything, status is even more detrimental to this set as it stops it from sweeping effectively lategame

    Team Options
    ========
    • Guess what, it's largely the same as support again
    • SpD Kyogre is again a problem, although this is mitigated by far if running Thunder
    • You should have an alternative Defog user if you choose to run this set. (stone edge) Giratina-O is a good choice, as fairyceus checks the dark-types that plague it; in return, gira can nail ho-oh with stone edge and provides some extra insurance against ekiller

    Other Options
    ########
    • Thunder Wave on the support set to smack a common switch-in in Ho-Oh, but it isn't really hitting anything else of note that would switch into fairyceus otherwise (overall outclassed by its other options at any rate)
    • Perish Song and Magic Coat on the support set
    • Dual screens set
    • Punishment is a niche option to deal with boosting gothitelle

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    • Ho-Oh
    • Steel types: Arceus-Steel, Heatran, Aegislash, Lucario, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Klefki, Jirachi, Mega Mawile, Bronzong
    • Shadow Tag: Mega-Gengar, Gothitelle, Wobbuffet
    • Poison-types: Arceus-Poison, Amoonguss
    • Chansey and Blissey
    • Mega Mewtwo Y
    • Kyogre
    • Bulky Fairies
    • Dialga (this one has a bullet independent of other steels bc without reliable healing + not resisting fairy, it has a limited lifespan and doesn't want to be switching into judgment repeatedly)
    • Status
    • Super effective coverage moves from faster Pokemon
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  2. malefic

    malefic cheers
    is a Pre-Contributor
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    -Reserved for relevant calcs-

    Calcs (open)
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  3. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    96 Timid is the same Speed as 212, and allows for 160 Def, which is 1 more then 44 Bold. In other words, 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Speed Timid is the same Speed with 1 more Def.

    Minor note, I know, but just thought I should point it out.

    Edit: 252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 172-204 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  4. malefic

    malefic cheers
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    good call, fixed.
  5. canman98

    canman98 Liscensed Barrel Rider
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    Some things you can add that I saw:
    -Alternate EV spread on support of 252 / 144 Def / 112 Spe on both to out speed Jolly Chomp while taking Zek's Bolt Strike better, but the Def EVs can be relocated to SpD to deal with Palk.
    OO stuff:
    -Magic Coat. Reflects status and Taunt from Gengar and Thundy.
    - Stone Miss for Ho-Oh
    -EQ for MegaGar and Poison Arc
    -Dual Screens idk.

    Just some input that I noticed from Ghostceus that could work here. Phone typing is sloppy lol.
  6. malefic

    malefic cheers
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    regarding these:
    - i mentioned why i'm using palkia, rather than garchomp as a benchmark - every bit of bulk lost matters greatly to fairyceus, and since judgment ohkos chomp i don't think it's that big of an issue
    - gengar might just sludge wave you; thundy cannot be para'ed even if you reflect thunder wave - magic coat on fairyceus is just really bad. added it to oo though.
    - stone miss, eq - these are in the main set already (support). cm really cannot spare the slot for them imo
    - added dual screens

    thanks! :]

    oh and this is ready for qc!
  7. canman98

    canman98 Liscensed Barrel Rider
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    Magic Coat can reflect their Taunts, therefore preventing MegaGar from D-Bonding the CM set (However Sludge Wave is still a prob), and a Taunted Thundy is an angry Thundy, but it still should be OO imo. I agree on bulk issues, so forget my EV spread. Other than that, no problem, and you better use the over-the-top writing on the overview and make me proud :)
  8. Cobalt314

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    I don't know whether I can do this, cause I'm not on QC team, but if I could, I'd like to point out a few things:

    Overview: Not much to add/correct. Mention how the rise in usage of steel types makes things a bit more difficult.
    Support Set: You mention that Roar is more effective with Hazards up. However, since Defog clears both sides, you should mention that Roar isn't recommended unless you use it before you Defog and/or if you have a way of bringing back the hazards. Also, mention in Usage Tips that you shouldn't use Defog as soon as you get the chance, but rather you should wait until your own Hazards have hit everything you wanted them to.
    Calm Mind Set: I'd also mention a more offensively inclined EV spread for the power-hungry players, although this may not be accurate. Otherwise good.
    Checks and Counters: You mention that the Calm Mind Set can't effectively deal with Heatran outside of Thunder, so I'd put it with your other Steel types.
    For the following suggestions, I'm going off of my Arceus Electric analysis, so it may not be accurate, but I hope that my point is clear.
    I'd add Sylveon, and put it, along with Xerneas and Clefable, in a "Bulky Fairy types" group (similar to my Arceus Electric bullet). Lugia is listed as a Check on my list, and it's weak to both His moves, so I'd put Lugia on your list as well. Also, I don't know if this is as relevant, but even though Dialga doesn't resist Fairy type moves, it's the only Dragon that isn't weak to them (aside from MegaXard and Reshiram), so it may get a small mention. Whoops, missed that.

    Other than that, your analysis looks good. I am anticipating the final product more than Ferrothorn (if you get what I mean), and I wish you the best of luck!

    Edit: you stole this one from me too JK, nah. Just messing with you :)
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  9. malefic

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    Yep, placed magic coat in oo. Dw I'll do the analysis justice :]

    Nice suggestions.
    • Edited overview to reflect the ubiquity of steel-types as a bane to fairyceus.
    • Point on roar is great. Made the relevant additions in usage tips
    • I'll hold back on adding an offensive spread on CM for now (will playtest + seek QC opinion + on phone so it's a pain to type ev spreads :p)
    • Dialga was already mentioned in checks and counters. Heatran is a huge check that I missed, added that
    • Added a 'bulky fairies' bullet
    Thanks!
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
    Cobalt314 likes this.
  10. Cobalt314

    Cobalt314

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    Whoops :P
    Edit: Also, if you want a GeoXern counter, I've had many instances where if you have Deoxys-A out with its offenses still not lowered, and they switch in Xerneas, a combination of Psycho Boost + Extreme Speed KO's it. I'm not sure if it's too gimmicky to deserve a mention, but if the circumstances are right, GeoXern can't even do anything to you.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  11. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Creep garchomp imo, it's like 16 ev points to do so which is 0 change in bulk. Will comment more latter.
  12. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Yeah agreeing with MM2, Garchomp isn't used much but Fairyceus should have the benefit of hard countering one when you see it, so outrunning it is nice.

    The support set should look like this:

    Support
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Defog / Stone Edge
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    item: Pixie Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 144 Def or Sdef can't decide atm / 112 Spd
    nature: Timid

    Toxic or Stone Edge are moves that alleviate Fairyceus inherent Ho-oh weakness. I find myself running Toxic a lot more than WoW personally, it helps checking CM Arc (with Sdef EVs especially), put opposing Defogers on a timer, crippling Lugia etc. WoW is notable in that it burns Scizor, but Ho-oh is a much harder threat to switch into, so limiting its staying power helps. Scizor can still cushion your attacks, Roost off damage and Toxic you in return for the burn so I'm feeling the use of WoW is quite limited in that sense. Also, what applies to Scizor should generally apply to Aegislash as well, save for the Roost part. Aegislash is however a very bad mon in the metagame and easy to punish with a lot of mons. WoWs niche in burning physical SR users like Groudon and Lando-T is also rather small as Judgment deals good damage to those anyway. However, I can still agree on it being the first slash as it can help checking E-killer.

    The CM set should look like this:
    Calm Mind
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Thunder / Psyshock / Refresh
    item: Pixie Plate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid

    Even though a bulkier spread is certainly viable, 252 Speed on a CM set should be standard as it forces Gengar to be mega evolved to fully check you, Lucario is also outsped which is very nifty considering Iron Tail OHKOs, Lugia won't be able to Roost loop you as it can with only 96 speed, and outspeeding misc shit like LO Terrakion can be good as well. Make sure to mention situation speed numbers though, as they are quite team specific and useful in that regard. The 4th moveslot is dedicated to getting around three different ways of countering this mon, and the three moves makes you play a little bit differently too. With Thunder you get past Ho-oh much more easily- and you retain good coverage on most Steels, including Scizor and Bronzong for example. Psyshock, with 88 EVs invested in Satk OHKOs Mega Gengar at +1, and also helps out in CM wars as it 2HKOs 252 HP Arceus at +6. Refresh deserves a slash because Fairyceus STAB has no immunities, however, with the amount of MGar, Ho-oh, Toxic+BP Scizor running around arguments can of course be made to drop this slash. Fire Blast is a cool move, though slashing it requires a build that handles Ho-oh comfortably (forcing SR+mons that can force Ho-oh out etc).
  13. Melee Mewtwo

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    Idk I use wisp cm a lot. It's not so much about actually sweeping as much as playing like a normal fairy arc -defog but +late game cleaning. Maybe swap with refresh? Iirc you do beat mega gar though if you cm as it comes in and have wisp. (double check cause it's hazy)
  14. malefic

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    changed spreads to outspeed chomp
    Hack He Must thanks for the post, i agree with most of what you said. i want to propose though that the slashing on the sets be as such (talked abit with mm2 + my own deliberation and experience):

    Support
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Defog / Roar
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    item: Pixie Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 144 Def or Sdef can't decide atm / 112 Spd (will mention both, leaning toward putting def in main)
    nature: Timid

    - Stone edge strongly advocated in moves as move 3 alternative
    - Toxic in strongly advocated in moves as move 4 alternative
    i feel they're both great options (esp taking into account team requirements) but stone edge is too situational, and toxic means you can't touch steels, making them too situational to be slashed, i feel

    Calm Mind
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Thunder / Psyshock / Will-O-Wisp
    item: Pixie Plate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid

    - Fire Blast strongly advocated in moves as move 4 alternative
    - Refresh suggested as possible move 4 bc fairy has no immunities but waterceus is in most cases better in this role...?
    - will change to 252 spd as main spread as your reasons are very valid
    - main slashed psyshock for the same reason as above
    - wisp main slashed bc it's generally a good move to use against physically-oriented mons, and wear misc stuff down

    thoughts?
    at any rate, further input about this from everyone is appreciated.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  15. canman98

    canman98 Liscensed Barrel Rider
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    Ironically the Support set you made with a consensus pooled with your own ideas turned out to be the set I posted on the last Arc-Fairy analysis lol. But, I can't find anything different to either of these sets in what I've made before I planned to write this (except Will-O being slashed last on the CM when I had it b4 Thunder, the addition of Psyshock), but I've had more experience with the support set so think what you will, but I think it looks great so far. Of course I'm not QC, but everything checks with these 2 sets imo, and had no problems with the analysis other than the things you corrected with these. Again, more opinion may be needed, but I think it looks great as of now. Good job!
  16. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    What is the real purpose of Roar? Arc-Fairy isn't a good stop to set up sweepers, it rarely has the wiggle room to use it against stuff like CM MMY and it's a bad solution vs Ekiller an Xerneas. I explained my thoughts about toxic throughly- the steels you can't hit will still usually rape you when you use WoW. I think it deserves a slash because it can win defog wars, beat CM Arceus (fairy is pretty solid at this because it's not weak to common CM users) and drop a Toxic on the Ho-oh switch in.

    tl;dr roar is stupid, toxic is still good, idc about stone edge but it's always cool on a ho-oh weak forme
  17. Piexplode

    Piexplode

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    It's worth noting that roar doesn't stop gothitelle from setting up all over you as it can carry taunt;

    Also goth needs to be added to checks and counters.
  18. Melee Mewtwo

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    Roar is basically when you don't want to use Defog cause you like your hazards and would rather abuse them instead. I agree with Toxic being slashed, though, it's still nice to not totally be Ho-Oh fodder and it's less specialized than Stone Edge.

    I also kinda want to see Wisp be slashed before Psyshock as Psyshock is more situational. (Thunder hits mega gar hard too, wisp can let fairy dick around dbond, para/burn both give it an edge in CM wars)
  19. malefic

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    thanks ':]

    in light of both of these, i'm slashing toxic after wisp, putting stone edge and roar in moves instead of giving them main slashes, and slashing wisp before psyshock on cm. i think we can move on from here now.

    will add goth under a "shadow tag" bullet
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  20. Piexplode

    Piexplode

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    Well it only cares about 2 shadow tag users; m-gaygar and goth.
    Wobb hates whatever status or running and stuff and being encored into a status whilst it kinda sux giving away a free turn the foe could usually do better things with their time and item slots.

    Also should flamethrower have a mention on the CM set? It wrecked my team [I tried to beat a CM fairyceus with ferrothorn and aegislash - it critted aegi tho] but I'm not sure whether it deserves mention.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  21. malefic

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    Wobb can still be (circumstantially) troublesome for fairyceus although I agree mega Gengar and goth far overshadow it as threats. I still feel grouping them under a 'shadow tag' bullet is appropriate though

    I have fire blast mentioned in moves on CM. Could list flamethrower as a weaker but more accurate alternative
  22. Piexplode

    Piexplode

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    For that matter mention Punishment in OO to fuck with those shadow tag users?
  23. Blue Jay

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    This looks solid now, just remove Toxic from OO. Also mention how SDef Kyogre is a great status absorber, which is important since Fairyceus is vulnerable to status and also because using Fairyceus pretty much means no Xerneas/Sylveon to act as a cleric.

    QC: 1/3
  24. malefic

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    Agreed, done.

    Blue Jay spdef ogre can really be a huge nuisance w its huge staying power + how nothing really wants to switch into (rain-boosted) scald. And Chansey compounds weaknesses so no cleric pretty much :[ Mentioned how one's team should have it contained in team options on the support set + CM if not running thunder. Thanks!
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  25. Furai

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