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Ubers Arceus-Fire

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Nayrz, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    [​IMG]
    (insert fire related pun here)
    QC 3/3 (Fireburn, Sweep, Blue Jay)
    GP 2/2 (GatoDelFuego, Calm Pokemaster)
    Overview
    ########

    Boasting a good offensive typing that has gained a new resistance to Fairy, Fire Arceus finds itself gaining a new niche in checking all Xerneas sets, Fairy Arceus, and the Steel-types that have also seen a rise in usage in XY. Due to its unpredictability, many opponents will have trouble figuring out exactly what set Fire Arceus is running, but all of its possible sets have the same troubles: it draws Kyogre and Palkia in like a magnet while also being severely crippled by all forms of entry hazards. Fire Arceus also has trouble finding switch-in opportunities against most Ubers Pokemon, but an immunity to Will-O-Wisp can aid with this issue. While reliant on team support, Fire Arceus can pull its weight if played well.

    Calm Mind
    ########
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Calm Mind
    item: Flame Plate
    evs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Calm Mind allows Fire Arceus to make the most of its offensive capabilities, turning Fairy-types such as Xerneas and Steel-types such as Scizor into mere setup fodder. While Fire Arceus has numerous strong Fire-type moves such as Overheat and Fire Blast at its disposal, Judgment is preferred for reliable power and accuracy. Thunder has shaky accuracy but is a necessary evil to bypass Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and other Flying-types, and even Kyogre in an emergency. Recover enchances Fire Arceus's longevity and lets it continue to use Calm Mind safely. Spacial Rend is an optional move that can deal with the Dragon-types that resist the original set's moves as they resist Judgment and Thunder. Grass Knot is also a possible option, hitting Ground- and Rock-types for super effective damage while still dealing good damage to Kyogre.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 HP EVs allow Fire Arceus to switch into Stealth Rock five possible times while retaining maximum bulk. 164 Special Defense EVs give Fire Arceus some protection against special hits such as Xerneas's Moonblast and allow it to begin using Calm Mind safely. 96 Speed EVs with a Timid Nature allow Fire Arceus to outspeed up to base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Palkia. An alternative EV spread includes running maximum Special Defense with a Calm nature to give more of a safety net against special attackers, but Fire Arceus should always aim to be somewhat fast.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Fire Arceus can usually switch into the Steel-types and Fairy-types roaming the tier and begin to set up on them. As it is mainly used as an effective Xerneas check, keeping it healthy when there is a Xerneas on the opposing team is essential to have any chance of dealing with the Geomancy set. To give Fire Arceus an easier time with Geomancy Xerneas, attack the latter with another Pokemon as it sets up, or just simply switch in Fire Arceus as it uses Geomancy. If you suspect a Kyogre switch-in, use Thunder to catch it off-guard and deal good damage. Fire Arceus can actually win against Kyogre if it has already accumulated Calm Mind boosts, but this is a rare occurrence; it needs two Calm Mind boosts to live Choice Scarf Kyogre's Surf after Stealth Rock, while needing three Calm Mind boosts to successfully OHKO Kyogre with Thunder should Kyogre be holding Choice Specs instead. Status moves such as Toxic can really put a damper on Fire Arceus; watch out for them when setting up on defensively oriented Pokemon.


    Team Options
    ========

    Having a good Kyogre check such as Palkia is mandatory if you wish to use Fire Arceus successfully. Palkia itself gives Fire Arceus a lot of trouble, and as such a teammate like Blissey is a great idea. Blissey, defensive Xerneas, and Sylveon can provide emergency cleric support for Fire Arceus should it be poisoned while also helping with the Dragon-types that the set struggles against, but they are not always necessary. Landorus-T is a great teammate as well, curbing the Ground-types like Groudon that can severely damage Fire Arceus and setting Stealth Rock to keep Ho-Oh at bay. In the same regard, Giratina-O and Gliscor can also work as Ground-type checks. Defog or Rapid Spin support is essential to stop Fire Arceus being crippled by entry hazards, but because using another Arceus to provide such support isn't possible, Scizor or Giratina-O are the only options for Defog support, while Rapid Spin users such as Tentacruel and Excadrill can also be good teammates for entry hazard removal.

    Other Options
    ########

    Overheat is an option, and while its Special Attack drop makes this a troublesome option, it can function as an extremely powerful hit-and-run move with sun support. Fire Blast is slightly more powerful than Judgment but has lower PP and reduced accuracy, leaving it a sub-par option. Roar can guarantee that Fire Arceus will always remove the threat of a boosted Geomancy Xerneas and annoy other setup sweepers. A set used specifically for luring in specific threats and taking them out is an option thanks to Fire Arceus's great coverage options and unpredictability. The set can consist of Grass Knot, Overheat, Stone Edge, and Spacial Rend or Earthquake, with the EV spread being 72 Atk / 224 SpA / 212 Spe with a Rash nature to ensure that the moves take out their intended targets. Overheat from this set OHKOes Groudon in sun and Mega Gengar in neutral weather, while also doing considerable damage to the Pokemon the other moves don't cover, such as Xerneas and Yveltal. Grass Knot hits Kyogre, Gastrodon, and Quagsire for heavy damage, while Stone Edge has a considerably high chance to OHKO Ho-Oh. Spacial Rend hits Dragon-types hard, and Earthquake OHKOes Heatran after Stealth Rock damage. Other options worth a mention for Fire Arceus include Ice Beam, to hit the Dragon- and Flying-types that resist Judgment, but it is rather weak without multiple Calm Mind boosts. Stone Edge can be used for dealing more damage to Ho-Oh. Status moves can also work, as Fire Arceus's unpredictability can easily force switches.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Kyogre** : Being able to switch in on any move barring a boosted Thunder, all Kyogre variants can easily switch in and destroy Fire Arceus with rain-boosted Water-type moves.

    **Other Arceus Formes** : Other Arceus formes, namely Dragon, Rock, Ground, and Water, can switch in and threaten with their STAB moves or begin setting up on Fire Arceus. Extreme Killer Arceus can also revenge kill with Earthquake.

    **Palkia** : 4x resisting Fire Arceus's STAB attacks and taking little damage from any other unboosted move, Palkia can switch in, Toxic Fire Arceus, and then whittle it down with its own STAB attacks. Palkia isn't as big of an issue if Fire Arceus is running Spacial Rend, however.

    **Ho-Oh** : Without Stealth Rock in play, Ho-Oh can easily tank any attack Fire Arceus throws at it and potentially overwhelm it with its own STAB attacks or even Earthquake, should Ho-Oh be running it.

    **Dragon Types** : Many Dragon-types used in Ubers resist Fire- and Electric-type moves, and should Fire Arceus not have Spacial Rend, Dragon-types can be very troublesome, as they can take Judgment and Thunder easily and either status or hit Fire Arceus very hard. Examples include Zekrom, Reshiram, Giratina, Giratina-O, and Dragon Arceus.

    **Blissey** : With its astounding special bulk, Blissey can handle even boosted hits from Fire Arceus and stall it out with Toxic.

    **Tyranitar** : Due to its Fire resistance and boosted Special Defense in the sand, Tyranitar can take Fire Arceus's attacks easily and threaten to KO with Stone Edge.

    **Heatran** : Immune to Fire Arceus's STAB and taking little damage from unboosted Thunder, Heatran can Toxic Fire Arceus, set up Stealth Rock, then phaze it out.

    **Mega Blaziken** : Being able to handle at least one boosted attack from Fire Arceus, Mega Blaziken can set up a Swords Dance and OHKO with Low Kick.

    **Trappers** : Pokemon such as Wobbuffett, Mega Gengar, and Gothitelle can trap Fire Arceus and either take it out or leave it as setup fodder for other Pokemon.

    **Toxic** : Common in the Ubers metagame, Toxic will put Fire Arceus on a timer and limit its sweeping potential should it not have cleric support.

    **Entry Hazards** : Because Fire Arceus is susceptible to all entry hazards, setting these up and forcing Fire Arceus out can really rack up damage and limit its switch-in opportunities.

    **Revenge Killing** : While Fire Arceus may be able to outspeed most of the Ubers tier, faster Pokemon such as Deoxys, Mewtwo, Mega Gengar, and Choice Scarf users can pick it off should it be weakened.
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  2. malefic

    malefic swing by for 1 more
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    spacial rend is actually a pretty good move and could be slashed with thunder or get moves at least. stone edge seems like a counterproductive use of a moveslot given that this is a calm mind set, and ice beam looks like oo material to me. highlight status in usage tips, as with any cm arceus. lando-t can go in team options (basically a means of curbing ground spam). ttar, tran, and status should go in c&c
  3. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    Changed some stuff around and added suggestions, but i'm not entirely sure about Spacial Rend, will need to test it out as you end up walled by Ho-Oh and Heatran.
  4. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Actually the most important thing about Roar is so Xerneas with Psyshock doesn't Geomancy twice and 2HKO you. Psyshock Xern is kind of rare, but that's pretty much the main purpose of Roar.
    Muk likes this.
  5. Sweep

    Sweep (makeup)
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    Overview

    Remove "isn't on fire" (i don't get it) and mention it only checks Xern optimally with Roar, since it gets 2HKOed by Thunder/Focus Blast/Psyshock on the switch. I also feel the immunity to Will-O-Wisp is worth mentioning, as physical sweepers such as Rock Polish Groudon appreciate a burn sponge on offense that doesn't kill momentum. Finally, mentiom along with the hazards comment that it cannot switch into many threat at all in Ubers, as Fire has some nasty weaknesses, and Fire Arceus is still crippled by all other status.

    Main Set

    Mention Grass Knot as a more reliable way to smack Rock types while still nailing Kyogre (don't slash it though).

    Other Options

    You can consider a lolzy mixed set for Other Options; Fireceus's excellent STAB and movepool makes it a really solid lure for a number of threats. It's kinda hard to justify using an Arceus slot on this, BUT it almost always gets at least one kill a game (and often more than one).

    Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 72 Atk / 224 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - Overheat
    - Grass Knot
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake / Spacial Rend


    One of the nicer attibutes of Fire Arceus is its unpredictability. Even good players will likely not be able to guess your exact set, considering how rare & unusual Fire Arceus is. This set guarantees that you OHKO max HP Groudon with Overheat and OHKO Mega Gengar in neutral weather. Overheat also provides a way to deal major damage to Xern and Yveltal. You also have a better than 50/50 chance to kill Aegislash after SR. Earthquake OHKOes Heatran after SR and smacks Reshiram & Blaziken, and Stone Edge has a better than 2/3 chance to OHKO max HP Ho-Oh at 100% health. Grass Knot is there to smack offensive Kyogre for ~65% damage on the switch and is a guaranteed 2HKO on physically defensive Kyogre, which is really nice. You also wreck Gastrodon and Quagsire.

    Tl;DR this thing is pretty good vs balanced and stall teams, since it can usually lure and kill at least one Pokemon, blowing a hole in their core. Alternatively, it can simply overpower walls like Sylveon with sun-boosted Overheats after some prior damage (Sun and STAB boosted Overheat is the main reason why Fire Arceus runs a better lure set than p. much any other Arceus). Palkia and the Giratinas do wall you still, so Spacial Rend is an option to smack them if Heatran isn't a concern. So yeah, I don't pretend 4 attacks Fire Arceus can easily fit onto a team, but it's a lot of fun to use and usually does pull its weight. I'll let other QC comment, and I don't anticipate this getting more than two lines in OO.

    Apart from this, mention status moves like Toxic and Thunder Wave in OO. Fire Arceus is not an effective support Arceus and thus will rarely use these moves, but they're still there and like the above set, Fire Arceus has a better chance to cripple what it wants to thanks to the sheer unpredictability of this Pokemon.

    Checks & Counters

    Move Kyogre up to #1. Ho-Oh probably deserves a mention if SR isn't out, assuming Fire Arceus doesn't run Stone Edge. It will at least carry an electric move and CANNOT be burned by Sacred Fire, so Ho-Oh doesn't check this as well as most other Arceus formes. Remove the last bullet point, super effective moves by themselves should not be mentioned in a checks & counters section. Move Tyranitar above Heatran. Finally, add trappers; Wobbuffet in particular gives Fire Arceus a very difficult time.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  6. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Maybe consider Iron Tail on that mixed set as well just so can deal a decent amount of damage to Xerneas?
  7. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    Thanks for the help Sweep, implemented all your changes and suggestions. Not sure how I'm supposed to be adding individual sets to OO but I gave it a shot, hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
  8. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Just mention it can run a potential lure set with sun-boosted Overheat and its wide array of coverage options for battering specific targets.

    Make sure you emphasize how important Kyogre/Palkia checks are when using this thing.

    QC 1/3
  9. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    Added changes.
  10. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    I'd like to propose a change to the set's EVs for QC to consider: Max SpD with a Calm nature. Outspeeding regular Palkia doesn't seem worth it, and the steel types that you would typically set up on are slower than you by default. This also means that Xerneas's attacks do less, and provide more of a safety net, as when using a check with as much opportunity cost as Fire Arceus, you want it to do it's job as best as possible.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
  11. Sweep

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    You outspeed stuff like Kyurem-W and Mega Kanga with the current EV spread as well. Not sure that the speed loss is worth it since a +2 Xern will 2HKO you after SR regardless with a coverage move. Feel free to mention it in Set Details though...I just really do not like Arceus with zero Speed investment in this metagame as the speed will prove useful against specific targets.

    Mention Roar in OO as well, though pure support Fireceus sucks and Roar is really hard to fit for obvious reasons :p.

    QC 2/3
    Nayrz likes this.
  12. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    I'll write this up whenever I can, got exams and stuff coming up.
  13. Nayrz

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    Found some time to write this up. I tried to avoid unnecessary details where possible since it seems i'm good at filling up analyses with fluff, lemme know if its too "straightforward" or w/e.
    Ready for 3rd check.
  14. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Arceus' stats become a lot better after a boost than "respectable" (Moves section).

    Clarify Fireceus vs Kyogre since it's important; how many boosts does it need to survive Scarf's Surf or to OHKO Specs?

    Sylveon or fat Xern can do everything you mentioned Blissey doing, add them. Spinners are viable too (the way you wrote it makes it sound like they aren't). Giratina-O also works as the Ground check and maybe Gliscor could be mentioned too so the Team Options are less barren.

    Also mention EQ for Ho-Oh checking Fireceus. A last bullet point mentioning Toxic in general could be added, maybe revenge killing too.

    QC: 3/3
  15. shrang

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    A few more counters to mention:
    - Gastrodon
    - Giratina (unless last mon, but if Gira has Toxic you lose too)
    - Giratna-O with EQ
    - Anything that resists/immune to Electric in the rain that isn't weak to Fire that can beat Fireceus before the rain runs out
    - Mega Blaziken at high health (pretty sure it can take a boosted Thunder and 2HKO with Low Kick
    - Deoxys-D with Toxic
    - Dragceus
    - Rhydon
    - Latias


    If lacking Spacial Rend:
    - Zekrom
    - Reshiram (with Toxic)
    - Mega Charizard X
    - Garchomp
    - Rayquaza

    Also Ekiller isn't really a good counter - it can EQ for quite a bit of damage, but it's not taking boosted Judgements well. Also mention that Palkia doesn't like taking Spacial Rend if Fireceus has it.
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
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  16. Nayrz

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    Alright, was busy with IRL stuff but I'm able to finish this up. I buffed the C&C section based on shrang's list by adding Dragon types, Toxic and Mega Blaziken, while clarifying/adding all of Blue Jay's changes.
    Unless there are any further suggestions/something I missed I'll be moving this into GP stage.
  17. GatoDelFuego

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    Nayrz

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    Overview
    ########

    Boasting a good offensive typing that has gained a new resistance to Fairy, Fire Arceus finds itself gaining a new niche in checking all Xerneas sets, Fairy Arceus, and the Steel-types that have also seen a rise in usage in XY. Due to its unpredictability many opponents will have trouble figuring out exactly what set Fire Arceus is running, but all of its possible sets have the same troubles; It draws Kyogre and Palkia in like a magnet, (RC) while also being severely crippled by all forms of entry hazards. Fire Arceus also has trouble finding switch-in opportunities against most Ubers Pokemon, but an immunity to Will-O-Wisp can aid with this issue. While reliant on team support, Fire Arceus can pull its weight if played well.

    Utility Check (Calm Mind) name and set name should be the same
    ########
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Calm Mind
    item: Flame Plate
    evs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Calm Mind can bring Fire Arceus's Special Attack and Special Defense to very powerful levels, proving to be an excellent choice due to its offensive capabilities, turning Fairy-types such as Xerneas and Steel-types such as Scizor into mere setup fodder. While Fire Arceus has numerous strong Fire-type moves such as Overheat and Fire Blast at its disposal, Judgment is preferred for reliable power and accuracy. Thunder has shaky accuracy but is a necessary evil to bypass Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and other Flying-types, and even Kyogre in an emergency. Recover allows Fire Arceus to maintain longevity and continue to use Calm Mind safely. Spacial Rend is an optional move that can deal with the Dragon-types that resist the original set's moves as they resist Judgment and Thunder. Grass Knot is also a possible option, hitting Ground- and Rock-types for super effective damage while still hitting Kyogre for good damage.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 HP EVs allow Fire Arceus to switch into Stealth Rock five possible times while retaining maximum bulk. 164 Special Defense EVs give Fire Arceus some protection against special hits such as Xerneas's Moonblast and allow it to begin using Calm Mind. 96 Speed EVs with a Timid Nature allow Fire Arceus to outspeed up to base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Palkia. An alternative EV spread includes running maximum Special Defense with a Calm nature to give more of a safety net against special attackers, but Fire Arceus should always aim to be somewhat fast.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Fire Arceus can find switch-in opportunities against the Steel-types and Fairy-types roaming the tier and begin to set up on them. As Fire Arceus is mainly used as an effective Xerneas check, keeping it healthy should there be when there is a Xerneas on the opposing team is essential to have any chance of dealing with the Geomancy set. To give Fire Arceus an easier time with Geomancy Xerneas, attack Xerneas with another Pokemon as it sets up, or just simply switch in Fire Arceus as it uses Geomancy. If you suspect a Kyogre switch-in, use Thunder to catch it off-guard and deal good damage. Fire Arceus can actually win against Kyogre if it has already accumulated Calm Mind boosts, (AC) but this is a rare occurrence; it needs 2 Calm Mind boosts to live Choice Scarf Kyogre's Surf after Stealth Rock, while needing 3 Calm Mind boosts to successfully OHKO Kyogre with Thunder should Kyogre be holding Choice Specs instead. Status moves such as Toxic can really put a damper on Fire Arceus; (SC) watch out for them when setting up on defensively oriented Pokemon.


    Team Options
    ========

    Having a good Kyogre check such as Palkia is mandatory if you wish to use Fire Arceus successfully. Palkia itself gives Fire Arceus a lot of trouble, and as such a teammate like Blissey is a great idea. Blissey, defensive Xerneas, (AC) and Sylveon can provide emergency cleric support for Fire Arceus should it be poisoned, (RC) while also helping with the Dragon-types that the set struggles against, but is they are not always necessary. Landorus-T is a great teammate as well, curbing the Ground-types like Groudon that can severely damage Fire Arceus and set up Stealth Rock to keep Ho-Oh at bay. In the same regard, Giratina-O and Gliscor can also work as Ground-type checks. Defog or Rapid Spin support is essential to stop Fire Arceus being crippled by entry hazards, but since because using another Arceus to provide such support isn't possible, Scizor or Giratina-O are the only options for Defog support, while Rapid Spin users such as Tentacruel and Excadrill can also be good teammates for entry hazard <-- you don't actually need to use "entry" here, but I've always been an advocate of using it all the time. I usually follow a once-per-paragraph thing removal.

    Other Options
    ########

    Overheat is an option, and while its Special Attack drop makes this a troublesome option, it can function as an extremely powerful hit-and-run move with sun support. Fire Blast is slightly more powerful than Judgment but has lower PP and reduced accuracy, (AC) leaving it a sub-par option. Roar can guarantee that Fire Arceus will always remove the threat of a boosted Geomancy Xerneas and annoy other setup sweepers. A set used specifically for luring in specific threats and taking them out Such as what? is an option thanks to Fire Arceus's great coverage options and unpredictability. Ice Beam can be used to hit the Dragon-types and Flying-types that resist Judgment but is rather weak without multiple Calm Mind boosts. Stone Edge can be used for dealing more damage to Ho-Oh. Status moves can also work, since as Fire Arceus's unpredictability can easily force switches and spread status.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    be sure to use colons in place of hyphens
    **Kyogre**: Able to switch in on any move barring a boosted Thunder, all Kyogre variants can easily switch in and destroy Fire Arceus with rain-boosted Water-type moves.

    **Other Arceus Formes** - Other Arceus formes, namely Dragon Arceus, Rock Arceus, Ground Arceus, and Water, (AC) Arceus can switch in and threaten with their STAB moves or begin setting up on Fire Arceus. Extreme Killer Arceus can also revenge kill with Earthquake.

    **Palkia** - Quad 4x resisting Fire Arceus's STAB attacks and taking little damage from any other unboosted move, Palkia can switch in, Toxic Fire Arceus, (AC) and then whittle it down with its own STAB attacks. Palkia isn't as big of an issue if Fire Arceus is running Spacial Rend, however. Is spacial rend mentioned anywhere else? I'd put it in OO if it's significant enough for c&c

    **Ho-Oh** - Without Stealth Rock in play, Ho-Oh can easily tank any attack Fire Arceus throws at it and potentially overwhelm it with its own STAB attacks or Earthquake should Ho-Oh be running it.

    **Dragon Types** - Many Dragon-types used in Ubers resist Fire- and Electric-type moves, and should Fire Arceus not have Spacial Rend, Dragon-types can be very troublesome, taking Judgment and Thunder easily and either status or hit Fire Arceus very hard. Examples include Zekrom, Reshiram, Giratina, Giratina-O, and Dragon Arceus.

    **Blissey** - With its astounding special bulk, Blissey can handle even boosted hits from Fire Arceus and stall it out with Toxic.

    **Tyranitar** - Due to its Fire resistance and boosted Special Defense in the sand, Tyranitar can take Fire Arceus's attacks easily and threaten to KO with Stone Edge.

    **Heatran** - Immune to Fire Arceus's STAB and taking little damage from unboosted Thunder, Heatran can Toxic Fire Arceus, set up Stealth Rock on it, then phaze it out.

    **Mega Blaziken** - Being able to handle at least one boosted attack from Fire Arceus, Mega Blaziken can set up a Swords Dance on it and OHKO with Low Kick.

    **Trappers** - Pokemon such as Wobbuffett, Mega Gengar, (AC) and Gothitelle can trap Fire Arceus and either take it out or leave it as setup fodder for other Pokemon.

    **Toxic** - Common in the Ubers metagame, Toxic will put Fire Arceus on a timer and limit its sweeping potential should it not have cleric support.

    **Entry Hazards** - Since Because Fire Arceus is suseptible to all entry hazards, setting these up and forcing Fire Arceus out can really rack up damage and limit its switch-in opportunities.

    **Revenge Killing** - While Fire Arceus may be able to outspeed most of the Ubers tier, faster Pokemon such as Deoxys, Mewtwo, Mega Gengar, and Choice Scarf users can pick off Fire Arceus should it be weakened.
    [​IMG]
    1/2

    Good work!
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  18. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    Thanks for the check! Its been implemented now. To answer those comments:
    "Such as what?" - The set this describes is in Sweep's post further up the thread, since i'm not sure how to implement something like a whole set in OO i just left it as a general point, I could change it if its necessary though.
    "Is spacial rend mentioned anywhere else?" - Last part of the moves section, you must have glossed over it :p
  19. GatoDelFuego

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    Nayrz if there's something specific that it helps with, just be sure to mention what specific thing that is. Otherwise, there's no point in saying it can do something niche.
  20. Nayrz

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    GatoDelFuego Noted, I added details of the set in question.
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  21. Calm Pokemaster

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    Overview
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    Boasting a good offensive typing that has gained a new resistance to Fairy, Fire Arceus finds itself gaining a new niche in checking all Xerneas sets, Fairy Arceus, and the Steel-types that have also seen a rise in usage in XY. Due to its unpredictability, (add comma) many opponents will have trouble figuring out exactly what set Fire Arceus is running, but all of its possible sets have the same troubles: it draws Kyogre and Palkia in like a magnet while also being severely crippled by all forms of entry hazards. Fire Arceus also has trouble finding switch-in opportunities against most Ubers Pokemon, but an immunity to Will-O-Wisp can aid with this issue. While reliant on team support, Fire Arceus can pull its weight if played well.

    Calm Mind
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    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Calm Mind
    item: Flame Plate
    evs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Calm Mind can bring Fire Arceus's Special Attack and Special Defense to very powerful levels, proving to be an excellent choice due to its allows Fire Arceus to make the most of its offensive capabilities, turning Fairy-types such as Xerneas and Steel-types such as Scizor into mere setup fodder. While Fire Arceus has numerous strong Fire-type moves such as Overheat and Fire Blast at its disposal, Judgment is preferred for reliable power and accuracy. Thunder has shaky accuracy but is a necessary evil to bypass Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, (add comma) and other Flying-types, and even Kyogre in an emergency. Recover allows Fire Arceus to maintain longevity enhances Fire Arceus's longevity and lets it continue to use Calm Mind safely. Spacial Rend is an optional move that can deal with the Dragon-types that resist the original set's moves as they resist Judgment and Thunder. Grass Knot is also a possible option, hitting Ground- and Rock-types for super effective damage while still hitting Kyogre for dealing good damage to Kyogre.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 HP EVs allow Fire Arceus to switch into Stealth Rock five possible times while retaining maximum bulk. 164 Special Defense EVs give Fire Arceus some protection against special hits such as Xerneas's Moonblast and allow it to begin using Calm Mind safely. 96 Speed EVs with a Timid Nature allow Fire Arceus to outspeed up to base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Palkia. An alternative EV spread includes running maximum Special Defense with a Calm nature to give more of a safety net against special attackers, but Fire Arceus should always aim to be somewhat fast.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Fire Arceus can find switch-in opportunities against can usually switch into the Steel-types and Fairy-types roaming the tier and begin to set up on them. As Fire Arceus it is mainly used as an effective Xerneas check, keeping it healthy when there is a Xerneas on the opposing team is essential to have any chance of dealing with the Geomancy set. To give Fire Arceus an easier time with Geomancy Xerneas, attack Xerneas the latter with another Pokemon as it sets up, or just simply switch in Fire Arceus as it uses Geomancy. If you suspect a Kyogre switch-in, use Thunder to catch it off-guard and deal good damage. Fire Arceus can actually win against Kyogre if it has already accumulated Calm Mind boosts, but this is a rare occurrence; it needs two Calm Mind boosts to live Choice Scarf Kyogre's Surf after Stealth Rock, while needing three Calm Mind boosts to successfully OHKO Kyogre with Thunder should Kyogre be holding Choice Specs instead. Status moves such as Toxic can really put a damper on Fire Arceus; watch out for them when setting up on defensively oriented Pokemon.


    Team Options
    ========

    Having a good Kyogre check such as Palkia is mandatory if you wish to use Fire Arceus successfully. Palkia itself gives Fire Arceus a lot of trouble, and as such a teammate like Blissey is a great idea. Blissey, defensive Xerneas, and Sylveon can provide emergency cleric support for Fire Arceus should it be poisoned while also helping with the Dragon-types that the set struggles against, but they are not always necessary. Landorus-T is a great teammate as well, curbing the Ground-types like Groudon that can severely damage Fire Arceus and setting up Stealth Rock to keep Ho-Oh at bay. In the same regard, Giratina-O and Gliscor can also work as Ground-type checks. Defog or Rapid Spin support is essential to stop Fire Arceus being crippled by entry hazards, but because using another Arceus to provide such support isn't possible, Scizor or Giratina-O are the only options for Defog support, while Rapid Spin users such as Tentacruel and Excadrill can also be good teammates for entry hazard removal.

    Other Options
    ########

    Overheat is an option, and while its Special Attack drop makes this a troublesome option, it can function as an extremely powerful hit-and-run move with sun support. Fire Blast is slightly more powerful than Judgment but has lower PP and reduced accuracy, leaving it a sub-par option. Roar can guarantee that Fire Arceus will always remove the threat of a boosted Geomancy Xerneas and annoy other setup sweepers. A set used specifically for luring in specific threats and taking them out is an option thanks to Fire Arceus's great coverage options and unpredictability. The set can consist of Grass Knot, Overheat, Stone Edge, and Spacial Rend or Earthquake, with the EV spread being 72 Atk / 224 SpA / 212 Spe (I assume this is Speed, not Special Defense) with a Rash nature to ensure that the moves take out their intended targets. Overheat from this set OHKOes Groudon in sun, (remove comma) and Mega Gengar in neutral weather, while also doing considerable damage to the Pokemon the other moves don't cover, such as Xerneas and Yveltal. Grass Knot hits Kyogre, Gastrodon, (add comma) and Quagsire for heavy damage, while Stone Edge has a considerably high chance to OHKO Ho-Oh. Spacial Rend hits Dragon-types hard, and Earthquake OHKOes Heatran after Stealth Rock damage. Other options worth a mention for Fire Arceus include Ice Beam, to hit the Dragon- and Flying-types that resist Judgment, (add comma) but it is rather weak without multiple Calm Mind boosts. Stone Edge can be used for dealing more damage to Ho-Oh. Status moves can also work, as Fire Arceus's unpredictability can easily force switches.

    Checks & Counters
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    **Kyogre** : Being able to switch in on any move barring a boosted Thunder, all Kyogre variants can easily switch in and destroy Fire Arceus with rain-boosted Water-type moves.

    **Other Arceus Formes** : Other Arceus formes, namely Dragon, Rock, Ground, and Water, (add comma) can switch in and threaten with their STAB moves or begin setting up on Fire Arceus. Extreme Killer Arceus can also revenge kill with Earthquake.

    **Palkia** : 4x resisting Fire Arceus's STAB attacks and taking little damage from any other unboosted move, Palkia can switch in, Toxic Fire Arceus, and then whittle it down with its own STAB attacks. Palkia isn't as big of an issue if Fire Arceus is running Spacial Rend, however.

    **Ho-Oh** : Without Stealth Rock in play, Ho-Oh can easily tank any attack Fire Arceus throws at it and potentially overwhelm it with its own STAB attacks or even Earthquake, (add comma) should Ho-Oh be running it.

    **Dragon Types** : Many Dragon-types used in Ubers resist Fire- and Electric-type moves, and should Fire Arceus not have Spacial Rend, Dragon-types can be very troublesome, as they can take Judgment and Thunder easily and either status or hit Fire Arceus very hard. Examples include Zekrom, Reshiram, Giratina, Giratina-O, and Dragon Arceus.

    **Blissey** : With its astounding special bulk, Blissey can handle even boosted hits from Fire Arceus and stall it out with Toxic.

    **Tyranitar** : Due to its Fire resistance and boosted Special Defense in the sand, Tyranitar can take Fire Arceus's attacks easily and threaten to KO with Stone Edge.

    **Heatran** : Immune to Fire Arceus's STAB and taking little damage from unboosted Thunder, Heatran can Toxic Fire Arceus, set up Stealth Rock, then phaze it out.

    **Mega Blaziken** : Being able to handle at least one boosted attack from Fire Arceus, Mega Blaziken can set up a Swords Dance and OHKO with Low Kick.

    **Trappers** : Pokemon such as Wobbuffett, Mega Gengar, and Gothitelle can trap Fire Arceus and either take it out or leave it as setup fodder for other Pokemon.

    **Toxic** : Common in the Ubers metagame, Toxic will put Fire Arceus on a timer and limit its sweeping potential should it not have cleric support.

    **Entry Hazards** : Because Fire Arceus is susceptible to all entry hazards, setting these up and forcing Fire Arceus out can really rack up damage and limit its switch-in opportunities.

    **Revenge Killing** : While Fire Arceus may be able to outspeed most of the Ubers tier, faster Pokemon such as Deoxys, Mewtwo, Mega Gengar, and Choice Scarf users can pick it off Fire Arceus should it be weakened.


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    GP 2 / 2
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  22. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    333
    Implemented the second check, thanks Calm Pokemaster! This is now done.

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