Done Arceus-Ghost [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Ubers Analyses' started by malefic, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    GP: 2/2 (Electrolyte / GatoDelFuego )
    QC: 3/3 (Fireburn / Melee Mewtwo / shrang )

    holy ghost

    [​IMG]

    Overview
    ########

    Wielding a Spooky Plate, Arceus's spectral incarnation remains a stellar Arceus forme and a top-tier threat in Ubers. Steel-type Pokemon now no longer resist Ghost-type moves, increasing the potency of Ghost as an offensive typing and augmenting Ghost Arceus's prowess as both a physically and a specially based setup sweeper. Defensively, Ghost Arceus can take advantage of its neutrality to most types and excellent base 120 / 120 / 120 defenses to run a viable support set that still retains significant offensive presence, handling Pokemon like Mewtwo with relative ease. With its typing giving it immunities to Normal- and Fighting-type moves, in conjunction with the move Will-O-Wisp getting an accuracy raise from 75% to 85%, Ghost Arceus also checks some of the best physical attackers in Ubers, including Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Kangaskhan, and Extreme Killer Arceus. In addition, Ghost Arceus can prevent entry hazard removal by blocking Rapid Spin, a move that has decreased in usage with the Defog buff but is nonetheless still viable in Ubers. Lastly, Ghost Arceus can use its typing to switch out of Shadow Tag unhindered, rendering it incapable of being trapped by another top-tier threat, Mega Gengar. However, Dark-types such as Darkrai and the newly introduced Yveltal significantly inhibit Ghost Arceus's potential and can easily exploit it to gain momentum. Still, all things considered, it must be reinforced that Ghost Arceus remains a versatile and very threatening Pokemon.

    Calm Mind
    ########
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Focus Blast / Thunder
    item: Spooky Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Calm Mind boosts Ghost Arceus's Special Attack and Special Defense by one stage each; at +1 Special Attack, Judgment hits most neutral targets very hard, making this set a formidable mid-to-late-game cleaner. Judgment is Ghost Arceus's reliable, powerful STAB move. Recover aids Ghost Arceus in setting up multiple Calm Mind boosts. Will-O-Wisp allows Ghost Arceus to check physical threats like Groudon and Mega Kangaskhan, even as it sets up. In conjunction with its max HP EVs, Ghost Arceus can also burn Extreme Killer Arceus and switch out to a relevant teammate relatively unscathed. Note that with its respectable natural bulk, possible Calm Mind boosts, and lack of weaknesses to most common offensive types, running Will-O-Wisp can make Ghost Arceus very difficult to break with both physical and special attacks, enhancing its ability to accrue multiple boosts (watch out for opposing status-inducing moves though). Also, with the buff to the Ghost typing, forgoing a coverage move becomes much less of an issue. Focus Blast can be run for hitting Arceus-Normal super effectively and landing a stronger hit on Ferrothorn and Heatran, possibly preventing them from using a status move or, in Heatran's case, Roar. However, its rather high 30% miss chance, along with the fact that Steel-type Pokemon now take neutral damage from Ghost-type moves, make it a less desirable option. Alternatively, Thunder can be run over Focus Blast as it hits important targets in Kyogre, Yveltal, and Ho-Oh significantly harder, potentially killing them before they can damage Arceus. Keep in mind though that Thunder has similar accuracy to Focus Blast, and that running it means you miss out on running Will-O-Wisp/Focus Blast, which might be more useful for your team. Rain support from Kyogre is recommended if Thunder is used.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum HP investment preserves Ghost Arceus's natural bulk, allowing it to comfortably take moderately powerful hits as it sets up, such as Hydro Pump from Palkia in neutral weather. Maximum Speed with a Timid nature allows Ghost Arceus to outspeed everything below its Speed tier and Speed tie with other Arceus formes. An alternative spread of 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe with a Timid nature can be used to let Arceus outspeed everything up to Jolly Garchomp; maximum Special Attack EVs allow Judgment to hit as hard as possible from the get-go. The remaining 144 EVs are invested in HP in order to let Ghost Arceus take hits a little better as it sets up. A third possible set would be 252 SpA / 252 Spe for maximum Speed and initial power. This set is more oriented toward posing an immediate threat, while 252 HP / 252 Spe increases Ghost Arceus's ability to take hits while accruing multiple boosts.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    If you see weakened threats, pick them off with Judgment. Also, use Judgment to ensure opposing sweepers vulnerable to it, such as Mewtwo, don't set up on Arceus. Basically, don't be hesitant to spam Judgment. Secondly, it is effective to actively make aggressive double switches. If the opponent is likely to switch to their Mewtwo, don't be afraid to double switch into Ghost Arceus. Ghost Arceus can take most unboosted hits comfortably, so one should not be too worried about the occasional mispredict (again, watch out for status, though). On the other hand, don't be too eager to set up Calm Mind rashly early-to-mid-game. While being gifted with natural bulk, Ghost Arceus is no damage sponge. For example, an unboosted Ghost Arceus might be able to set up a Calm Mind and come out on top of a skirmish with an Adamant-natured Groudon, but it will accomplish this with at most 24% of its HP to spare, leaving it prone to being revenge killed by threats it could otherwise beat, such as Mewtwo or Aegislash running Shadow Sneak. That aside, this set also loathes status, as mentioned above. Burn and poison limit its longevity greatly, and paralysis gimps its great Speed. This makes it unwise to set up on threats you can ultimately kill but which will cripple you with status in the process, limiting your staying power and sweeping potential. Examples include Ferrothorn and Heatran. Also, be very wary of Yveltal and Darkrai; both are Pokemon that can rapidly snatch momentum away. Yveltal can switch into a Judgment and proceed to threaten your team massively with its possible Life Orb-boosted dual STAB moves. While Darkrai is too frail to be switching into Judgment repeatedly, it can take one and threaten to put something to sleep or set up.

    Team Options
    ========

    Make sure Dark-types like Yveltal and Darkrai are adequately dealt with. Fairy-types pair well with Ghost Arceus. Xerneas can take hits directed at it, as well as rid it of status with a bulky cleric set. Other Fairy-types such as Sylveon and Clefable are also viable teammates as they, too, provide type synergy and cleric support. However, do note that Fairy-types are both friend and foe to Ghost Arceus; it is crucial to have a reliable answer to a boosted Geomancy Xerneas as it can set up alongside with and overpower this set. Scizor can use Bullet Punch to pick off Xerneas that have taken prior damage from Judgment. Pokemon such as Bronzong and Jirachi can also reliably handle Geomancy Xerneas, but note that these compound the team's Ghost-type weakness. Ho-Oh is problematic for this set as its powerful dual STAB moves outdamage Ghost Arceus and prevent it from setting up; have teammates that can set up Stealth Rock reliably such that Ho-Oh loses 50% of its total HP upon each switch-in. Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Gliscor are good Stealth Rock setters that can also check Ho-Oh with their physical bulk when the need arises. However, note that neither can switch into Brave Bird/Sacred Fire repeatedly and the best way to keep Ho-Oh in check is really to make sure Stealth Rock stays up; a Judgment at +1 Special Attack from 0 SpA Ghost Arceus will always kill 248 HP Ho-Oh after it takes Stealth Rock damage and a round of Life Orb recoil. Thirdly, Ghost Arceus is vulnerable to powerful Choice Scarf users after it has gotten a kill. Choice Scarf Zekrom is a threat that can be dealt with by the aforementioned Landorus-T and Gliscor. Groudon can also be used if its lack of a Ground immunity is not an issue, and if teammates can take advantage of the sun it provides. Choice Scarf Kyogre is less of a threat if Ghost Arceus has gotten at least one Calm Mind boost, but a Water Spout at full or near-full HP is nonetheless incredibly threatening; Palkia is a good teammate to handle Kyogre. Finally, it would be pertinent to mention that this set's usage over another Arceus forme should be well-justified. For example, this set checks Mewtwo, so it would be a good addition to teams that are weak to Mewtwo. On the other hand, this set might not be the best addition to teams already vulnerable to opportunistic Dark-types like Darkrai. Notably, this set's draws over another Calm Mind Arceus forme should be evaluated. For example, if a team were weak to Mega Kangaskhan, running this set over a Calm Mind Arceus-Electric would be a good decision.

    Swords Dance
    ########
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Shadow Force
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Brick Break
    item: Spooky Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly

    Moves
    ========

    Swords Dance instantly doubles Ghost Arceus's attack, skyrocketing its sweeping potential. Augmented by the Ghost buff, Shadow Force hits like a nuke, and at +2 Attack will KO virtually all Pokemon that do not resist or are immune to it, especially after Stealth Rock. Shadow Claw prevents Substitute/Protect users, such as Substitute Ho-Oh, from taking advantage of Shadow Force. With the buff to Ghost typing, running two Ghost-type moves is very viable, akin to not running a coverage move on the Calm Mind set. Brick Break in the last slot allows Ghost Arceus to hit Normal-types like Blissey and Kangaskhan that are immune to Ghost Arceus's STAB moves. It also hits Ferrothorn super effectively, and allows Ghost Arceus to come out on top against Extreme Killer Arceus. Recover can be used in the third or fourth moveslot, but it is not recommended, as running it in either slot will give you Arceus sub-optimal coverage. This set aims to pull off a quick, brutal sweep late-game, making Recover an inferior option, as opposed to on Calm Mind Ghost Arceus, which aims to stay healthy while possibly accruing multiple boosts. Extreme Speed can be run over Shadow Claw, as it hits pretty hard at +2 and can pick off annoying, fast but frail threats like Deoxys-A, Darkrai, and Blaziken, as well as weaknened Choice Scarf users. However, note that even after a Swords Dance, Extreme Speed is still a relatively weak move that does not hit anything super effectively, and is generally outclassed in usefulness by the listed moves. Stone Edge can be used in the third moveslot to nail Yveltal and Ho-Oh, notably the physically defensive variant; this is situationally useful and should only be run if one's team dearly needs these Pokemon out of the way.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum Attack investment optimizes damage output. Maximum Speed investment with a Jolly nature allows Ghost Arceus to at least Speed tie other Arceus formes; this is very important as they can threaten a burn with Will-O-Wisp. An Adamant nature can be used as it achieves certain notable KOs, such as a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock damage with a boosted Shadow Force against 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus forms. Note that on teams with Sticky Web support, it is highly advised to use an Adamant nature as it allows Ghost Arceus to become a phenomenal wallbreaker.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Try only to reveal and use this set late-game after the opponent's Arceus forme has been revealed, any Choice Scarf users have been taken down, and the opposing team has been generally weakened to a level where this set can clean up. One of the main contributing factors to this set's effectiveness is the element of surprise, so try not to foil your opportunity. However, if the opponent's Choice Scarfed Pokemon is likely to stick around (for example, if they are saving their Kyogre for a late-game sweep), the best course of action would be to sneak Ghost Arceus in whenever opportunities present themselves, either by double switching or on weaker hits, and spam Shadow Force, or otherwise attempt to do as much damage as possible. Again, be very wary of Dark-types like Yveltal and Darkrai. Don't spam Shadow Force if they are healthy, as they can take a hit and force you to relinquish momentum.

    Team Options
    ========

    Make sure Dark-types can be reliably handled. Again, Fairy-types make good partners. Secondly, have a plan for Geomancy Xerneas, as with the Calm Mind set. Thirdly, make sure Stealth Rock can be set up, reliably and repeatedly. This is instrumental as Ghost Arceus can achieve many notable KOs at +2 Attack with Stealth Rock up. Sticky Web support is huge for this set, as it ensures that Choice Scarf users cannot revenge kill it, and provides it a lot more room to maneuver around the opponent. There is a chance that this set will lose to Extreme Killer Arceus one-on-one, and if so, there needs to be a reliable contingency plan. Support Groudon with Roar can phaze Extreme Killer in a pinch, and can also set up Stealth Rock for the team. On more offensive teams, Ditto is a good option to revenge kill a boosted Extreme Killer. Also, evaluate the effectiveness of using this over another Arceus set. This set is especially good at heaping immediate offensive pressure on the opponent, and is a good fit on teams that need an opportunistic wallbreaker/sweeper, but the opportunity cost of using it is that you forgo the advantages another Arceus set might provide.

    Support
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Defog
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    item: Spooky Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Judgment is the obligatory STAB move. Recover ensures that Ghost Arceus has staying power and does not get whittled down by attacks. Defog provides team support by wiping entry hazards from the field, and Will-O-Wisp neuters physical attackers and checks physically based setup sweepers. Notably, Will-O-Wisp, in conjunction with the Defense investment, allow this set to check Extreme Killer Arceus.

    Set Details
    ========

    Max HP EVs and 144 Defense EVs allow Ghost Arceus to better stomach Mewtwo's Psystrike, as well as buffer against physical attacks that it might have to switch in on, or take in the event of Will-O-Wisp missing. 112 Speed EVs with a Timid nature outspeeds everything up to Jolly Garchomp.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As with the other sets, try not to let Dark-types like Yveltal and Darkrai switch in on Arceus. Also, avoid switching in on strong special attacks, such as from a Palkia that you know has Choice Specs equipped. However, if users of such attacks have been weakened and are slower than Ghost Arceus, it can switch in, take a hit, and pick off the threat. Thirdly, a Ghost typing is much more offensively potent than most other support Arceus types, so it would be wise to take advantage of this by spamming Judgment. If the opponent is switching out their Pokemon, using Judgment twice is in many cases better than using Defog + Judgment, especially when the opponent's entry hazard setter can set up hazards again with relative ease.

    Team Options
    ========

    This section mirrors that of Calm Mind Ghost Arceus, really. One thing to add would be that support Ghost Arceus is a very reliable Defogger. Notably, it cannot be trapped by Mega Gengar, so teammates such as Ho-Oh that benefit greatly from the absence of entry hazards are much-appreciated.

    Other Options
    ########

    An anti-lead set with Magic Coat, Judgment, and Extreme Speed can be used to combat common leads like Deoxys-A/Deoxys-S. Flamethrower or Fire Blast can be used on the Calm Mind, support, and anti-lead sets to hit Steel-types like Ferrothorn and Scizor. Note though, that with Ghost-type attacks hitting Steel-type Pokemon neutrally this generation, Fire-type coverage has decreased significantly in importance. Stone Edge can be run on the support set to nail Ho-Oh and hit Yveltal harder, as can Toxic to cripple walls or Thunder Wave to cripple setup sweepers. Ghost Arceus can take most +1 hits and retaliate by crippling its foe with status.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Dark-types**: Most notably, Yveltal and Darkrai can switch in on Ghost Arceus's STAB Judgment and threaten it hugely with STAB Dark Pulse, or in Darkrai's case, put it to sleep with Dark Void and possibly proceed to set up. Other Dark-type Pokemon like Arceus-Dark and Mandibuzz with Toxic also prevent Ghost Arceus from sweeping, or at least limit its longevity with status, as their STAB moves are super effective on Ghost Arceus. Tyranitar is less of a threat as Ghost Arceus commonly carries Will-O-Wisp, but it should not be ignored. Mega Gyarados also deserves a mention as it can harass Swords Dance Ghost Arceus in the interim; regular Gyarados can lower Ghost Arceus's Attack with Intimidate, following which it Mega Evolves to gain a resistance to Ghost-type moves and possibly proceed to set up with Dragon Dance and inflict significant damage before going down.

    **Kyogre**: Specially defensive Kyogre can phaze the Calm Mind set; Kyogre in general can deal heavy damage to all sets with its rain-boosted STAB moves.

    **Xerneas**: As with Kyogre, specially defensive Xerneas can phaze the Calm Mind set or cripple it with moves like Thunder Wave if it chooses to run that. In a one-on-one situation, Geomancy Xerneas can boost and come out on top against all sets.

    **Unaware**: The two main users of this ability in Ubers, Clefable and Quagsire, are big thorns in Ghost Arceus's side, as they check the Calm Mind and Swords Dance sets respectively by ignoring any boosts Ghost Arceus might have gained and wearing it down with Toxic damage coupled with self-recovery.

    **Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh can cripple most sets with its STAB moves, especially under sun. Sacred Fire's 50% burn rate is also really nasty. If running Substitute, it can really mess around with the Swords Dance set if it does not run both Shadow Force and Shadow Claw.

    **Blissey**: The pink blob counters the Calm Mind and support sets by virtue of its enormous Special Defense and access to Toxic.

    **Status**: Ghost Arceus loathes status of any sort; paralysis gimps all its sets and burn/poison limit its longevity greatly, deterring it from spamming Judgment or setting up.

    **Choice Scarf Users**: The commonly seen threatening ones are Zekrom and Kyogre, the latter especially if it is at high health. Choice Scarf Genesect with an Attack boost from Download can pose a threat with Iron Head and its 30% flinch rate.

    **Kyurem-W** Choice Specs Kyurem-W is very dangerous to support Ghost Arceus, threatening to OHKO with Draco Meteor (62.5% chance) after Stealth Rock damage. This is compounded by the fact that it can switch in after Ghost Arceus has used Defog, and has respectable 125 base HP and 100 base Special Defense with which it can stomach an uninvested Judgment rather comfortably.

    **Groudon**: Physically defensive Groudon checks the Swords Dance set to an extent; it can stomach even a +2 Shadow Force and proceed to phaze Ghost Arceus with Roar, undoing its efforts in setting up. However, note that, especially against sets with Will-O-Wisp, it is fighting a losing battle.

    **Mega Gengar**: Mega Gengar can revenge kill most sets with Shadow Ball. No matter how many boosts they might have attained, Calm Mind/Swords Dance Ghost Arceus is still threatened by Destiny Bond. Note that it can switch out of Shadow Tag though, so the only disadvantage will be that Arceus's sweep will be interrupted.

    **Priority**: Although Ghost Arceus is immune to priority in Extreme Speed, Shadow Sneak from the likes of Giratina and Aegislash can pick it off if it has been significantly weakened. Sucker Punch from the aforementioned Yveltal, Mega Kangaskhan, and even lesser-seen Pokemon like Bisharp can do the same. This, however, is mitigated if Ghost Arceus has Will-O-Wisp.


    Skeleton (open)

    Overview
    ########
    • Top-tier threat from last generation through now
    • With the nerf to Steel types, Ghost has increased in viability as an offensive typing, augmenting Arceus-Ghost's prowess as a setup sweeper
    • Defensively, Arceus-Ghost can take advantage of its neutrality to most types + natural bulk (to a lesser extent its 2 immunities) to run a viable support set that still possesses significant offensive presence
    • Ghost typing also allows Arceus-Ghost to prevent hazard removal through Rapid Spin, a move that has decreased in usage with the Defog buff but is nonetheless viable in Ubers
    • However, Dark-type threats new and old significantly inbihit Arceus-Ghost's potential and can easily exploit it to gain momentum

    Calm Mind
    ########
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Focus Blast / Thunder
    item: Spooky Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    • Calm Mind allows Arceus-Ghost to sweep effectively at +1 / +1
    • Judgment is a reliable, powerful STAB move
    • Recover aids Arceus-Ghost in setting up multiple Calm Mind boosts
    • Will-O-Wisp allows Arceus-Ghost to check physical threats like Rock Polish Groudon, even as it sets up. In conjunction with its max HP EVs, Arceus-Ghost can also burn Extremekiller Arceus-Normal and switch out to a relevant teammate relatively unscathed
    • Focus Blast is nice for hitting Arceus-Normal super-effectively; it also lands a stronger hit on Ferrothorn and Heatran (mention how this point is less crucial with ghost buff + focus miss)
    • Alternatively, Thunder can be run over Focus Blast as it hits important targets in Kyogre, Yveltal, and Ho-Oh significantly harder, potentially killing them before they can hit you. Keep in mind though that Thunder has a rather high 30% miss chance, and that running it means you miss out on running Will-O-Wisp / Focus Blast, which might be more useful for your team. Rain support from Kyogre is recommended if running Thunder

    Set Details
    ========
    • Max HP preserves Arceus-Ghost's natural bulk, allowing it to comfortably take moderately powerful hits as it sets up, such as from Palkia in neutral weather
    • Max Spd Timid to outspeed everything relevant and tie with other Arceus formes
    • Alternatively, 112 Spe Timid outspeeds everything up to Jolly Garchomp, and max SpA to allow Judgment to hurt from the get-go. Remaining 144 EVs invested in HP in order to take hits a little better while setting up
    • A 3rd possible set would be 252 SpA / 252 Spd to let Judgment hit as hard as possible from the get-go, as well as retaining maximum speed. This set is more oriented toward posing an immediate threat, while 252 Hp / 252 Spd allows Arceus-Ghost to accrue multiple boosts

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • If you see weakened threats, pick them off with Judgment. Also use Judgment to ensure opposing sweepers vulnerable to it don't set up on you. If the opponent is likely to switch to their Mewtwo, don't be afraid to double into Arceus-Ghost
    • Basically, don't be hesitant to spam Judgment
    • On the other hand, don't set up Calm Mind rashly early-mid game. While being gifted with natural bulk, Arceus-Ghost is no damage sponge. For example, Arceus-Ghost at +0 might be able to set up a Calm Mind and come out on top of a skirmish with an Adamant Groudon, but it will accomplish this with at most 24% of its Hp to spare, leaving it prone to being revenge killed by threats it could otherwise beat, such as Mewtwo or Aegislash (Shadow Sneak)
    • This set loathes status. Burn / Poison limits its longevity greatly, and Paralysis gimps its great speed. This makes it unwise to set up on threats you can ultimately kill but which will cripple you with status in the process, limiting your sweeping potential. Examples: Ferrothorn, Heatran
    • Be very wary of Yveltal and Darkrai - both are Pokemon that can rapidly snatch momentum away from you. Yveltal can switch into a Judgment and proceed to threaten your team massively with (possible) Life Orb-boosted dual STABs. While Darkrai is too frail to be switching into Judgment repeatedly, it can take one and threaten to put something to sleep / set up

    Team Options
    ========
    • Make sure Dark-types like Yveltal and Darkrai are adequately dealt with. Fairy types pair well with Arceus-Ghost. Xerneas can sponge hits directed at it + rid it of status with a bulky set
    • Other Fairy types like Sylveon and Clefable are also viable choices as they too provide synergy and cleric support
    • Ho-Oh is problematic for this set while it sets up - have teammates that can switch into Ho-Oh reliably and proceed to threaten it. Pokemon like Landorus-T and Gliscor can check Ho-Oh with their physical bulk + SR
    • Arceus-Ghost is vulnerable to powerful Scarfers after it has gotten a kill - run teammates who can deal with threatening Scarfers in Kyogre and Zekrom
    • Scizor is a good teammate as it can Pursuit-trap Mega Gengar. Note that Arceus-Ghost can bypass Shadow Tag. Scizor can also handle Chansey, another Pokemon that poses problems to this set
    • This set's usage over another Arceus forme / Pokemon should be well-justified. Evaluate your existing team structure when determining if this set should be run:

    1. Is my team adequately equipped to handle Dark-type threats like Yveltal / Darkrai? Do I have a sleep absorber?
    2. Is my team weak to Mewtwo (all formes)?
    3. Does this Arceus form fit better on my team than any other CM Arceus? Also, do I have a means of Hazards control on my team? (if not, consider running Support Arceus-Ghost - see below)

    • The above questions should be thought about if you want to run this set on your team. Depending on your team structure, another CM Arceus form might potentially suit your team better
    • For example, if your team is weak to Mewtwo, running this set over Calm Mind Arceus Electric would be well-justified
    Swords Dance
    ########
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Shadow Force
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Brick Break
    item: Spooky Plate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    nature: Jolly

    Moves
    ========
    • Swords Dance skyrockets Arceus-Ghost's attack and maximises its sweeping potential
    • Augmented by the Ghost buff, Shadow Force hits like a nuke
    • Shadow Claw prevents Substitute / Protect users (think Substitute Ho-Oh) from taking advantage of Shadow Force. Running 2 Ghost-type moves is very viable with the Ghost buff
    • Brick Break allows Arceus-Ghost to hit Normal types like Chansey and Kangaskhan. It also hits Ferrothorn super-effectively, and allows Arceus-Ghost to get past Extremekiller Arceus-Normal
    • Recover can be run as move 3 or move 4, but it is not recommended, as running it in either slot will give you sub-optimal coverage. This set achieves to pull off a quick, brutal sweep lategame, making Recover an inferior option, as opposed to it on Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost who aims to stay healthy while possibly accruing multiple boosts
    • Extreme Speed can be run over Shadow Claw, it hits pretty hard at +2 and can pick off annoying, faster threats like Deoxys-A, Darkrai, and Blaziken, as well as weaknened Scarfers. Note though that even at +2, un-STABed Extreme Speed is still a relatively weak move that does not hit anything super-effectively, and is generally outclassed in usefulness by the listed moves
    • Stone Edge can be run as move 3 to nail Yveltal and Ho-Oh, notably the physically defensively variant - this is situationally useful and should only be run if its usage over the above options is well-justified (if your team really needs these threats out of the way)

    Set Details
    ========
    • Max Atk for maximum damage
    • Max Spd Jolly to at least tie with other Arceus formes, this is very important as they can burn you with Will-O-Wisp / Extremekiller Arceus Normal can set up on you if running Jolly + Life Orb
    • An Adamant nature can be run as it acheives certain pertinent feats. Note that on teams with Sticky Web support, an Adamant nature should be run as it allows Arceus-Ghost to become a phenomenal wallbreaker.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Try only to reveal and use this set lategame, after the opponent's Arceus form has been revealed, any Scarfer(s) have been taken down, and the team generally weakened. One of the main contributing factors to this set's effectiveness is the element of surprise - don't foil your opportunity
    • However, if the opponent's Scarfer is likely to stick around, - for example: if he is saving his Kyogre for a lategame sweep - the best course of action would be to sneak Arceus-Ghost in (either by doubling, or on weaker hits) and spam Shadow Force, or otherwise attempt to do as much damage as possible
    • Again, be very wary of Yveltal and Darkrai. Don't spam Shadow Force if they are healthy as they can take a hit and force you to relinquish momentum

    Team Options
    ========
    • Again, make sure Dark types can be reliably handled - again, Fairy types make good partners.
    • Make sure Stealth Rock can be set up, reliably and repeatedly. This is instrumental as Arceus-Ghost can achieve many notable KOs at +2 with Stealth Rock
    • Sticky Web support is huge for this set - it ensures Scarfers cannot revenge kill it, and provides it a lot more room to maneuver around the opponent
    • There is a chance that this set will lose to Extremekiller Normal-Arceus 1v1, and if so, one needs to have a reliable contingency plan. Ditto is a good option to revenge kill a boosted Extremekiller. Mega Kangaskhan can also wear down a weakened Extremekiller with Fake Out (Mega Gengar??? dark weakness compounded tho :[)
    • This Arceus is at home on more offensive teams for a few reasons:

    1. It fits with these teams' motif of heaping overwhelming offensive pressure on the opponent
    2. Defensively, it offers very little synergy
    3. Balanced / defensive teams running this set forgo the ability to use a support Arceus set (or CM Arceus), which is almost always the better choice on such teams.
    Support
    ########
    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Defog
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    item: Spooky Plate
    evs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    • Judgment is the obligatory STAB move
    • Recover ensures Arceus-Ghost sticks around
    • Defog to wipe hazards
    • Will-O-Wisp neuters physical attackers. Notably, this, in conjunction with the Def EVs, allow this set to check Extremekiller Arceus-Normal

    Set Details
    ========
    • Max HP and 144 Def EVs allow Arceus-Ghost to better stomach Mewtwo's Psystrike
    • 112 Spd Timid outspeeds everything up to Jolly Garchomp

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Avoid Dark types
    • Avoid strong special attacks (from the likes of Lustrous Orb Palkia, etc). However, if need be, and users of such attacks have been weakened + are slower than Arceus-Ghost, it can switch in, take a hit, and pick off the threat
    • Ghost is a more potent offensive type than most other support Arceus types - take advantage of this by spamming Judgment. If the opponent is switching out, using Judgment twice is in many cases better than using Defog + Judgment, especially when the opponent can set up hazards again with relative ease

    Team Options
    ========
    • [see Team Options for the Calm Mind set - not much to add]

    Other Options
    ########
    • Anti-lead set with Magic Coat and Extreme Speed to combat common leads like Deoxys-A / Deoxys-S
    • Flamethrower / Fire Blast on the Calm Mind / Support / anti-lead sets to roast Steel-types like Ferrothorn and Scizor. Note that with Ghost hitting Steel neutrally this generation, Fire coverage has decreased significantly in importantance
    • Stone Edge on the Support set to nail Ho-Oh and hit Yveltal harder
    • Toxic on the Support set to cripple stallmons
    • Thunder Wave on the Support set to cripple setup sweepers. Arceus-Ghost can take most +1 hits and retaliate

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    • Dark-types: Yveltal, Darkrai, Tyranitar, Arceus-Dark, Mandibuzz with Toxic
    • Chansey (Blissey) counters the Calm Mind and Support sets
    • Scarfers (mainly Kyogre and Zekrom). Watch out for Scarfed Toxic lel
    • Ho-Oh can cripple most sets with its STAB moves, especially under Sun. If running Substitute, it can really mess around with the SD set
    • Specially Defensive Kyogre can phaze the CM set; Kyogre in general can deal heavy damage to all sets with Rain-boosted STAB moves
    • Mega-Gengar can revenge kill most sets with Shadow Ball. Even at +1, Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost is still threatened by Destiny Bond
    • Arceus-Ghost loathes status of any sort; Paralysis gimps all its sets, and Burn / Poison limit its longevity greatly (deters it from spamming Judgment / setting up)
    • Shadow Sneak: although Arceus-Ghost is immune to priority in Extremespeed, Shadow Sneak from the likes of Giratina and Aegislash can pick it off if it has been significantly weakened
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  2. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    - Reserved for calcs -

    Swords Dance set (open)

    +2 252 Atk Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 381-448 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252+ Atk Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 417-492 (93.9 - 110.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 152 Def Arceus-Water: 334-394 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252+ Atk Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Water: 366-432 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Shadow Force vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 258-303 (65.6 - 77%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252+ Atk Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Shadow Force vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 283-333 (72 - 84.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    Support set (open)

    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Ghost: 181-214 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 207-243 (46.6 - 54.7%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Ghost: 378-445 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 430-507 (96.8 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  3. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,637
    Initial suggestions:

    Stone Edge in OO for Ho-Oh/Yveltal coverage. I assume you mean Magic Coat instead of Bounce too.

    Slash Thunder with FBlast on CM, hits Yveltal/Ho-Oh/Kyogre which are all important targets. FBlast is not as needed anymore. Mention rain support from Kyogre to help with Thunder's accuracy.

    I would slash ESpeed with SClaw for the SD set, the priorty is helpful for checking things like Deo-A and it can be used to pick off weakened Scarfers.

    I would still AC mention max HP/max Speed EVs in the Calm Mind set since the bulk is handy at times.

    Blaziken isn't really a check so take that out. Instead mention Kyogre for CM/Support sets.

    Although MGar isn't able to trap you it can still RK with Shadow Ball so I think you should mention it as a check.

    Wisp should be only option in slot 4 of support set imo, with Tox/TWave moved to OO. This is because one of Arc-Ghost's best niches is checking EKiller which it cant do without Wisp. I would also make the EV spread just max HP and max Speed so you can tie Jolly EKiller.
  4. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    Included these.
  5. Cobalt314

    Cobalt314

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    157
    On the Calm Mind set, I'd slash Will-O-Wisp in the last moveslot. If EKiller comes out, you can fire off one or two Will-O-Wisps and then switch out, since Ghostceus can survive a +2 Shadow Claw. You'd switch out anyways when facing Ho-Oh and Kyogre, so there really isn't much you lose out on with WoW.
    EDIT: Also, for checks and counters, add status, since it limits Arceus's longevity and sweeping potential for the offensive sets, especially SD
  6. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    I'm iffy about slashing Will-O-Wisp. If you run Focus Blast, there is no need for Will-O-Wisp at all. Meanwhile, if you run Thunder, you aren't going to be switching out of Ho-Oh and Ogre (if it has been found to not be Scarfed) - you're going to hit them with it. This is Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost - running Will-O-Wisp would effectively make the set a cross between the CM and Support sets - you'd be better off choosing one of those 2 and running that.

    I'll mention status in checks and counters though.

    Thanks for the feedback!
  7. Cobalt314

    Cobalt314

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    157
    No problem. This was supposed to be my analysis! How dare you take it!! I really like Arceus Ghost, so I would very much appreciate it if this analysis turns out to be a great one.
  8. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    It's one of my favorite Pokemon too :3 Eh, I'll do the analysis justice. In the meantime, feel free to keep the suggestions coming!
  9. Cobalt314

    Cobalt314

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    157
    Mention how the buff to Ghost types also made it untrappable. Also how it lost its role as a spinblocker with Defog buff.
    EDIT: Is it alright if I add you to the conversation I had with Melee Mewtwo about AG?
  10. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    Will include those. Also, sure.
  11. Hack He Must

    Hack He Must
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    Calm Mind
    ########
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Will O Wisp / Focus Blast
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    Thunder in set details, maybe deserves a slash. WoW allows you to be one the best checks physical threats like Ekiller and RP Groudon. At the same time you are posing a late-game threat with Calm Mind. Arceus-Ghost becomes a middle ground between sweeper and supporter, you don't have to rely on Focus Blast hitting to check E-killer for example. Bulky EVs are standard, as any Arceus forme can check Palkia in neutral weather assuming Palkia can't hit it for SE damage.
  12. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    Implemented. Changed organisation of spreads.
  13. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,998
    Will comment later since it is still in wip but make sure to have spaces between slashes like / this and move optins that aren't slash worthy but still neat considerations get mentioned in the "moves" section and not set details (looking at recover on sd). Also, I dislike strict teambuilding suggestions like must run 2 checks to dark types or only run arc ghost if yes to all these questions. Some of that info isn't bad but i dislike the way it's presented as obligatory, if you can turn it in a different way that would be cool. (like, if your team is weak to Mewtwo, Arceus-Ghost can help with that weakness or something like that)
  14. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    regarding the bolded part: don't worry, the absolute nature of the team options section is deliberate - it shall stay in this format only for the time being as i am using it as a template of sorts, like so i have something to follow when i get down to writing the section in prose. no way you're going to see wording like "Only run this set if you answer yes to everything" when i write this up.

    that being said, i cannot stress enough how important it is to reinforce to readers that arceus-ghost isn't a pokemon you throw on a team because one thinks it's cool, or because ghost typing got buffed, etc etc. rather, it should only be considered if the team is weak to very specific, but key threats in mewtwo and mega kang. if the other 5 members of one's team can adequately handle these pokemon, that alone, i feel, is reason enough not to consider arceus-ghost. this is not to say arceus-ghost is bad, but rather, that it should not be used outside of its (small but very significant) niche - because then another arceus form can almost definitely fill up that team slot better. this applies to cm and support arceus-ghost.

    tl;dr i can guarantee no absolute statements (must run 2 checks) when i write this up, but the team options section really needs to be delineated rigidly to get the point across to readers.

    any thoughts on this/can i start writing this up? :o
  15. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,998
    Write up doesn't happen until you have 2 qc checks. ATM this is in wip so it won't be getting QC checks.

    Also, I disagree with that sentiment. Obviously, it's not a "slap this on your team and it gets better mon" (is anything?) but CM Ghosty is a very good set that can cover all sorts of roles that would make it valuable to a team. (it's great in so many offensive cores for so many different reasons) I don't think you should try to limit it to specific teambuilding needs but rather just value where it might excel. SD/Defog are the more, "niche but significant" type sets.
  16. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    yeah we talked about this and reached an understanding. i have altered the tone of the team options section somewhat; i think it's more satisfactory now :]

    this is ready for qc!
  17. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    613
    Overview

    "Top-tier threat that many teams are unprepared for." Most quality teams will prepare for Ghost Arceus, so rephrase this to emphasize that it's good

    Mention that it spinblocks. I know this is a forgotten art but Excadrill, Cloyster, and to a much lesser extent Forretress still exist in Ubers to remove hazards so it's nice to stop spinning.

    Calm Mind
    Thunder doesn't hit Ho-Oh and Kyogre THAT much harder than Judgment, though i'll concede that Max HP Ghost Arceus needs Thunder to break offensive Ho-Oh at +1 after Stealth Rock. It's really good vs. Yveltal no doubt but mention how situational (and unreliable due to its accuracy) Thunder is.

    In usage tips, expand on Ghost Arceus's vulnerability to status and its need to avoid it. It is badly crippled by sleep, paralysis, and Toxic and dislikes being burned. It's often not worth staying in on a Heatran or a support Arceus if you cannot finish them off in one hit. Likewise, mention status absorbers in the team options section; Gliscor can work since it checks the troublesome Scarf Zekrom.

    Swords Dance
    Please no Extremespeed...PLEASE. It is too weak to warrant a slash IMO and will fail to pick off mons even after a boost. With SD Ghostceus strapped for options, this is OO material IMO.

    List Stone Edge below Recover as a gimmicky option to hit Yveltal and Physically Defensive Ho-Oh; it is inconsistent though. Mention that Brick Break beats Kangaskhan and Ferrothorn.

    In set details, mention that an Adamant nature is really good when provided with Sticky Web support as it can wallbreak with Shadow Force. Hack has used an Adamant spread so I'll let him expand on this.

    Other Options

    Fire Blast and Flamethrower can be mentioned to nail Ferrothorn and some other stuff, but with Ghost hitting steels for neutral damage, Fire STAB is not very useful. ExtremeSpeed is usable on the anti-lead set and finishes off Deoxys-S and A.

    Checks & Counters looks good. Also, Manaphy is right about the spread, Garchomp still exists and is nice to outrun.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  18. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    686
    It's 112 Speed to beat everything up to Chomp. This deserves a significant mention as max Speed only helps you by tying other max speed Arceus, while if you run 112 Speed you have a lot of EV's to dump somewhere else (like Def to better check Mewtwo or SAtk to hit harder)
    Alert to Sounds likes this.
  19. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    Will implement Sweep and Manaphy's input when I get access to my PC, am currently in camp

    EDIT: scratch that, implemented. I will be constantly keeping track of this so feel free to keep the feedback coming

    EDIT 2: I have reviewed this again and feel that espeed shouldn't be oo, although it probably isn't worthy of a main slash. At any rate, it seems more deserving to be mentioned in moves than stone edge, as picking off krai, deo, blaze, weakened scarfers, and killing weakened mkang before it can sucker punch you seems unequivocally more useful than hitting phydef Ho-Oh (shadow force maims most Ho-Oh alr), and Yveltal (+2 espeed does a lot + sucker punch + stone miss). Anyone want to weigh in?
    (It's still oo and stone edge in moves now)
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  20. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,998
    Both sound fair as moves mentions but unslashed imo.
  21. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    Sounds good, did this.
  22. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,637
    Everything seems fine. The one last thing you can mention in Checks and Counters is that Shadow Sneak (Gira-O, Aegis) can pick off Arceus-Ghost if its weakened considerably.

    QC 1/3
  23. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    Will do, and thanks!
  24. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Boss characters make appearances in other stages
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,998
    we talked , analysis is strong

    QC approved 2/3
    [​IMG]
  25. malefic

    malefic

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    222
    thanks mm2! i've written this up and it's ready to be 3/3ed.

    (i have a question - what is the proper format to include relevant calcs in the analysis? would appreciate if qc could advise on this :])

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)