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Ubers Arceus-Grass

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Aurora, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. Aurora

    Aurora formerly a chair
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    [​IMG]

    [OVERVIEW]

    * Arceus-Grass's uncommon offensive typing and access to a strong STAB move in Grass Knot make it a good check to defensive Primal Kyogre and several support Arceus formes, such as Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Water, and Arceus-Rock.
    * Arceus-Grass's resistances to Ground- and Water-type moves, in conjunction with coverage options such as Ice Beam, allow it to threaten other defensive Pokemon that simply cannot touch it, such as Zygarde-C.
    * Arceus-Grass can be difficult to switch into, even for offensive teams, as many would-be checks, such as Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Ho-Oh, are OHKOed or heavily damaged by the appropriate coverage move.
    * Unfortunately, Arceus-Grass's defensive typing is sullied by common weaknesses to Fire-, Flying-, Ice- and Poison-type moves, which can make it difficult for it to switch in in many scenarios.
    * Arceus-Grass cannot fit all of the coverage moves it wants to run onto one set, as it is forced to run Grass Knot to fulfil its role of checking certain Pokemon, Ice Beam to prevent it from being Mega Salamence bait, and Recover to ensure that it is not worn down too easily. If it forgoes Stone Edge, it is walled by Ho-Oh, whereas if it forgoes Fire Blast, it is walled by almost every viable Steel-type Pokemon.
    * Arceus-Grass is deadweight against most stall teams due to its vulnerability to Toxic and insufficient power. It is also extremely susceptible to being trapped and removed by the ubiquitous Mega Gengar.
    * Due to its glaring offensive and defensive shortcomings and the fact that it takes up the all-important Arceus slot, Arceus-Grass can be very hard to justify on most teams.

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Utility
    move 1: Grass Knot
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Fire Blast / Stone Edge
    move 4: Recover
    item: Meadow Plate
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Grass Knot always OHKOes Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, almost always OHKOes defensive Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Water, and Arceus-Rock if they have taken a small amount of prior damage, and 2HKOes Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre.
    * Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence and Rayquaza and 2HKOes Zygarde-C. If Stealth Rock is up, Ice Beam also 2HKOes all variants of Yveltal.
    * Fire Blast improves Arceus-Grass's matchup against Steel-type Pokemon, 2HKOing most of them on the switch in.
    * Alternatively, Arceus-Grass can run Stone Edge so it has a way of hitting Ho-Oh, OHKOing it after it has switched into Stealth Rock once.
    * Recover allows Arceus-Grass to remain healthy throughout the match so it can continually pressure the defensive cores it beats and lure in and KO threatening Pokemon.

    Set Details
    ========

    * Maximum Special Attack investment maximizes Arceus-Grass's offensive presence.
    * Maximum Speed investment with a Timid nature allows Arceus-Grass to Speed tie with other maximum Speed Arceus formes, such as Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, and outspeed most support Arceus formes, such as Arceus-Water.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Switch Arceus-Grass into Pokemon it forces out, such as Arceus-Ground, Zygarde-C, and Arceus-Water.
    * Do not switch Arceus-Grass in recklessly against Primal Groudon unless it is certain that the opposing Primal Groudon does not carry a Fire-type move.
    * Once Arceus-Grass is in play, it is often safe for it to click whatever move hits the predicted switch-in for the most damage. However, if Arceus-Grass is at low health and the Pokemon it threatens have not yet fainted, Recover is the best option to preserve its usefulness for later on in the game.
    * Bear in mind that Arceus-Grass relies on prediction to be effective. To this end, do not be too careless with it, especially when playing against offensive teams, as a misprediction can be costly.
    * Arceus-Grass should be played as aggressively as possible against stall teams, as its susceptibility to status and lack of boosting move often render it deadweight.
    * Feel free to play aggressively with Arceus-Grass once it has KOed the Pokemon it is supposed to deal with.

    Team Options
    ========

    * Rock Polish Primal Groudon pairs well with Arceus-Grass, as it appreciates Arceus-Grass's ability to remove Pokemon that it would otherwise be unable to break. In return, Primal Groudon deals with the Steel- and Poison-types that wall Arceus-Grass. If Arceus-Grass opts for Stone Edge over Fire Blast, it is recommended that Primal Groudon carry a Fire-type move so as to ensure that Celesteela, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn do not wall both Pokemon.
    * Pokemon that can set up Stealth Rock, such as Dialga, are excellent teammates, as Arceus-Grass needs entry hazard support to achieve KOs on the support Arceus formes it threatens and Ho-Oh.
    * Poison-types, such as Mega Gengar and Alolan Muk, appreciate Arceus-Grass's ability to deal with Ground-types. In return, these Pokemon can absorb Toxic Spikes, which greatly limit Arceus-Grass's longevity, and deal with Clefable. Alolan Muk can also Pursuit trap Mega Gengar, which greatly threatens Arceus-Grass.
    * Ho-Oh removes Steel-types from play for Arceus-Grass. In return, Arceus-Grass can beat Arceus-Rock, Ho-Oh's hardest counter.
    * Geomancy Xerneas makes for a good teammate, as Arceus-Grass's ability to wear down Primal Groudon and remove Ho-Oh from play can make a late-game sweep much easier for it.
    * Choice Scarf users, such as Lunala and Yveltal, can remove Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed and threaten Arceus-Grass, such as Mewtwo and Mega Gengar.
    * Giratina-O can Defog away entry hazards that would otherwise force Arceus-Grass to Recover more often. It, too, can remove Mega Gengar with Shadow Sneak.
    * Mega Lucario's efficacy at dealing with stall teams makes it a valuable teammate for Arceus-Grass. In return, Arceus-Grass can remove the bulky Arceus formes that bother Mega Lucario, such as Arceus-Water and Arceus-Ground.
    * If Arceus-Grass is not running Stone Edge, Zygarde-C can be valuable as a teammate for its ability to deal with Ho-Oh.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    * Grassium Z should not be used over Meadow Plate. While it gives Arceus-Grass access to Bloom Doom, Bloom Doom hits only marginally harder than a maximum strength Grass Knot boosted by Meadow Plate, making it almost completely unnecessary.
    * Earth Power hits Mega Gengar and other Poison-types for super effective damage but is often too situational an option for Arceus-Grass, as it forces it to sacrifice either one of its other coverage moves or Recover.
    * Calm Mind sounds appealing but is a poor option, as giving up a coverage move leaves Arceus-Grass far too easily walled for it to function properly.
    * Arceus-Grass can use Thunder Wave fairly safely as a means to cripple Mega Gengar, as Ground-types will rarely, if ever, attempt to switch into it. However, the nerf to paralysis and the fact that Thunder Wave takes up a valuable moveslot make it situational at best.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Blissey and Chansey**: Blissey and Chansey's excellent special bulk allows them to easily wall and set up on Arceus-Grass.

    **Clefable**: Clefable takes pitiful damage from all of Arceus-Grass's moves and can easily set up on it.

    **Lugia**: Despite being hit super effectively by Ice Beam and Stone Edge, Lugia's bulk is great enough that, even if Multiscale is broken, it can comfortably wall Arceus-Grass and either Toxic stall or phaze it.

    **Poison-types**: Poison-type Pokemon are very dangerous to Arceus-Grass unless it is running Earth Power. Gengar can switch in on any of Arceus-Grass's attacks barring Earth Power and either force it out on the turn it Mega Evolves or simply OHKO it if it has switched into Stealth Rock once. Alolan Muk laughs at Arceus-Grass and can fish for poison against it, often dealing more damage with Poison Jab than what it can heal back with Recover. Arceus-Poison often does not run maximum Speed investment, which can be bothersome if Arceus-Grass is running Earth Power; however, in all other situations, Arceus-Poison can fearlessly switch in and either set up with Swords Dance or just outright 2HKO Arceus-Grass with Poison Jab.

    **Ho-Oh**: If Arceus-Grass is not running Stone Edge, Ho-Oh immensely threatens it. Substitute variants of Ho-Oh can freely set up on Arceus-Grass that lack Stone Edge, while more offensive variants can simply plow through it with Sacred Fire or Brave Bird.

    **Steel-types**: Without Fire Blast, Arceus-Grass is walled by every Steel-type worth using in Ubers save for Excadrill. Celesteela can Toxic stall Arceus-Grass. Skarmory laughs at Ice Beam and can set up Spikes. Arceus-Steel, Mega Lucario, and Mega Scizor can set up Swords Dance. Dialga and Bronzong can set up Stealth Rock. Dialga's secondary Dragon typing means that it does not even fear Fire Blast.

    **Faster Pokemon**: Deoxys-A can revenge kill Arceus-Grass with Psycho Boost after a small amount of prior damage, but it cannot switch in at all. Mega Mewtwo Y's low weight means Grass Knot does pitiful damage to it, while it can outspeed Arceus-Grass and 2HKO it in return with Fire Blast; however, it cannot safely switch in as regular Mewtwo.

    **Blaziken**: While it fears Earth Power, Blaziken takes little damage from anything else Arceus-Grass runs, allowing it to easily set up on Arceus-Grass or simply OHKO it with Flare Blitz.

    **Arceus-Dragon**: If it is at full health, Arceus-Dragon can switch into Ice Beam and either Recover or Toxic stall Arceus-Grass.

    **Primal Groudon**: Defensive Primal Groudon with Lava Plume can heavily damage Arceus-Grass, while offensive Primal Groudon with Fire Punch can outright OHKO it. Not even the most specially defensive of Primal Groudon can comfortably switch into Grass Knot, however. It should be noted that Primal Groudon cannot beat Arceus-Grass if it lacks a Fire-type move.

    **Kyurem-W**: Life Orb Kyurem-W can take a Stone Edge and revenge kill Arceus-Grass with Ice Beam. Choice Scarf Kyurem-W can even switch in on a predicted Stone Edge and OHKO Arceus-Grass with Ice Beam if it has taken Stealth Rock damage
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  2. Aurora

    Aurora formerly a chair
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    third time's (hopefully?) the charm; ready for QC
  3. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    I'd probably have Fire Blast before Stone Edge - getting owned by Steels (Lucario!!!!!!) is worse than trying to take chances vs Ho-Oh:

    0- Atk Arceus-Grass Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 244-288 (58.6 - 69.2%)

    Probably better to pair this with like a Facade Salamence or something. The rest is pretty good.

    QC 1/3
    Aurora likes this.
  4. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Ubers Co-Leader

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    QC 2/3
    Aurora likes this.
  5. Aurora

    Aurora formerly a chair
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    implemented
  6. Dominatio

    Dominatio
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  7. Aurora

    Aurora formerly a chair
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    ready for GP
  8. The Dutch Plumberjack

    The Dutch Plumberjack horyzhnz to horyzhnz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    [​IMG]

    remove
    add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
    GP 1/1
    check (open)

    [OVERVIEW]

    * Arceus-Grass's uncommon offensive typing and access to a strong STAB move in Grass Knot make it a good check to defensive Primal Kyogre and several support Arceus formes, such as Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Water, and Arceus-Rock.
    * Arceus-Grass's resistances to Ground- and Water-type moves, in conjunction with coverage options such as Ice Beam, allow it to threaten other defensive Pokemon that simply cannot touch it, such as Zygarde-C.
    * Arceus-Grass can be difficult to switch into, even for offensive teams, as many would-be checks, such as Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Ho-Oh, are OHKOed or heavily damaged by the appropriate coverage move.
    * Unfortunately, Arceus-Grass's defensive typing is sullied by common weaknesses to Fire-, Flying-, Ice- and Poison-type moves, which can make it difficult for it to switch in in many scenarios.
    * Arceus-Grass cannot fit all of the coverage moves it wants to run onto one set, as it is forced to run Grass Knot to fulfil its role of checking certain Pokemon, Ice Beam to prevent it from being Mega Salamence bait, and Recover to ensure that it is not worn down too easily. If it forgoes Stone Edge, it is walled by Ho-Oh, whereas if it forgoes Fire Blast, it is walled by almost every viable Steel-type Pokemon.
    * Arceus-Grass is deadweight against most stall teams due to its vulnerability to Toxic and insufficient power. It is also extremely susceptible to being trapped and removed by the ubiquitous Mega Gengar.
    * Due to its glaring offensive and defensive shortcomings and the fact that it takes up the all-important Arceus slot, Arceus-Grass can be very hard to justify on most teams.

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Utility
    move 1: Grass Knot
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Fire Blast / Stone Edge
    move 4: Recover
    item: Meadow Plate
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Grass Knot always OHKOes Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, almost always OHKOes defensive Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Water, and Arceus-Rock if they have taken a small amount of prior damage, and 2HKOes Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre.
    * Ice Beam OHKOes Mega Salamence and Rayquaza and 2HKOes Zygarde-C. If Stealth Rock is up, Ice Beam also 2HKOes all variants of Yveltal.
    * Fire Blast improves Arceus-Grass's matchup against Steel-type Pokemon, 2HKOing most of them on the switch in.
    * Alternatively, Arceus-Grass can run Stone Edge so it has a way of hitting Ho-Oh, (comma) Stone Edge OHKOes Ho-Oh OHKOing it after (repetition, subjective-ish) it has switched into Stealth Rock once.
    * Recover allows Arceus-Grass to remain healthy throughout the match so it can continually pressure the defensive cores it beats and lure in and KO threatening Pokemon.

    Set Details
    ========

    * Maximum Special Attack investment maximizes Arceus-Grass's offensive presence.
    * Maximum Speed investment with a Timid nature allows Arceus-Grass to Speed tie with other maximum Speed Arceus formes, such as Swords Dance Arceus-Ground, and outspeed most support Arceus formes, such as Arceus-Water.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Switch Arceus-Grass into Pokemon it forces out, such as Arceus-Ground, Zygarde-C, and Arceus-Water.
    * Do not switch Arceus-Grass in recklessly against Primal Groudon unless it is certain that the opposing Primal Groudon does not carry a Fire-type move.
    * Once Arceus-Grass is in play, it is often safe for it to click whatever move hits the predicted switch-in for the most damage. However, if Arceus-Grass is at low health and the Pokemon it threatens have not yet fainted, Recover is the best option to preserve its usefulness for later on in the game.
    * Bear in mind that Arceus-Grass relies on prediction to be effective. To this end, do not be too careless with it, especially when playing against offensive teams, as a misprediction can be costly.
    * Arceus-Grass should be played as aggressively as possible against stall teams, as its susceptibility to status and lack of boosting move often render it deadweight.
    * Feel free to play aggressively with Arceus-Grass once it has KOed the Pokemon it is supposed to deal with.

    Team Options
    ========

    * Rock Polish Primal Groudon pairs well with Arceus-Grass, as it appreciates Arceus-Grass's ability to remove Pokemon that it would otherwise be unable to break. In return, Primal Groudon deals with the Steel- and Poison-types that wall Arceus-Grass. If Arceus-Grass opts for Stone Edge over Fire Blast, it is recommended that Primal Groudon carries carry a Fire-type move so as to ensure that Celesteela, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn do not wall both Pokemon.
    * Pokemon that can set up Stealth Rock, such as Dialga, are excellent teammates, as Arceus-Grass needs entry hazard support to achieve KOes KOs on the support Arceus formes it threatens and Ho-Oh.
    * Poison-types, such as Mega Gengar and Alolan Muk, appreciate Arceus-Grass's ability to deal with Ground-types. In return, these Poison-types Pokemon can absorb Toxic Spikes, which greatly limit Arceus-Grass's longevity, and deal with Clefable. Alolan Muk can also Pursuit trap Mega Gengar, which greatly threatens Arceus-Grass.
    * Ho-Oh removes Steel-types from play for Arceus-Grass. In return, Arceus-Grass can beat Arceus-Rock, Ho-Oh's hardest counter.
    * Geomancy Xerneas makes for a good teammate, as Arceus-Grass's ability to wear down Primal Groudon and remove Ho-Oh from play can make a late-game sweep much easier for it.
    * Choice Scarf users, such as Lunala and Yveltal, can remove Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed and threaten Arceus-Grass, such as Mewtwo and Mega Gengar.
    * Giratina-O can Defog away entry hazards that would otherwise force Arceus-Grass to Recover more often. It, too, can remove Mega Gengar with Shadow Sneak.
    * Mega Lucario's efficacy at dealing with stall teams makes it a valuable teammate for Arceus-Grass. In return, Arceus-Grass can remove the bulky Arceus formes that bother Mega Lucario, such as Arceus-Water and Arceus-Ground.
    * If Arceus-Grass is not running Stone Edge, Zygarde-C can be valuable as a teammate for its ability to deal with Ho-Oh.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    * Grassium Z should not be used over Meadow Plate. While it gives Arceus-Grass access to Bloom Doom, Bloom Doom hits only marginally harder than a maximum strength Grass Knot boosted by Meadow Plate, making it almost completely unnecessary.
    * Earth Power hits Mega Gengar and other Poison-types for super effective damage but is often too situational an option for Arceus-Grass, as it forces it to sacrifice either one of its other coverage moves or Recover.
    * Calm Mind sounds appealing but is a poor option, as giving up a coverage move in favor of Calm Mind leaves Arceus-Grass far too easily walled for it to function properly.
    * Arceus-Grass can use Thunder Wave fairly safely as a means to cripple Mega Gengar, as Ground-types will rarely, if ever, attempt to switch into it. However, the nerf to paralysis and the fact that Thunder Wave takes up a valuable moveslot makes make it situational at best.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Blissey and Chansey**: Blissey and Chansey's excellent special bulk allows them to easily wall and set up on Arceus-Grass.

    **Clefable**: Clefable takes pitiful damage from all of Arceus-Grass's moves and can easily set up on it.

    **Lugia**: Despite being hit super effectively by Ice Beam and Stone Edge, Lugia's bulk is great enough that, even if Multiscale is broken, it can comfortably wall Arceus-Grass and either Toxic stall or phaze it.

    **Poison-types**: Poison-type Pokemon are very dangerous to Arceus-Grass unless it is running Earth Power. Gengar can switch in on any of Arceus-Grass's common attacks barring Earth Power, (unless you feel this distorts the content, but in any case remove the comma) and either force it out on the turn it Mega Evolves or simply OHKO it if it has switched into Stealth Rock once. Alolan Muk laughs at Arceus-Grass and can fish for poison against it, often dealing more damage with Poison Jab than what it can heal back with Recover. Arceus-Poison often does not run maximum Speed investment, which can be bothersome if Arceus-Grass is running Earth Power; however, in all other situations, Arceus-Poison can fearlessly switch in and either set up with Swords Dance or just outright 2HKO Arceus-Grass with Poison Jab.

    **Ho-Oh**: If Arceus-Grass is not running Stone Edge, Ho-Oh immensely threatens it. Substitute variants of Ho-Oh can freely set up on Arceus-Grass that lack Stone Edge, while more offensive variants can simply plow through it with Sacred Fire or Brave Bird.

    **Steel-types**: Without Fire Blast, Arceus-Grass is walled by every Steel-type worth using in Ubers save for Excadrill. Celesteela can Toxic stall Arceus-Grass. Skarmory laughs at Ice Beam and can set up Spikes. Arceus-Steel, Mega Lucario, and Mega Scizor can set up Swords Dance. Dialga and Bronzong can set up Stealth Rock. Dialga's secondary Dragon typing means that it does not even fear Fire Blast.

    **Faster Pokemon**: Deoxys-A can revenge kill Arceus-Grass with Psycho Boost after a small amount of prior damage, but it cannot switch in at all. Mega Mewtwo Y's low weight means Grass Knot does pitiful damage to it, while it can outspeed and 2HKO Arceus-Grass and 2HKO it in return with Fire Blast; however, it cannot safely switch in as regular Mewtwo.

    **Blaziken**: While it fears Earth Power, Blaziken takes little damage from anything else Arceus-Grass runs, allowing it to easily set up on Arceus-Grass or simply OHKO it with Flare Blitz.

    **Arceus-Dragon**: If it is at full health, Arceus-Dragon can switch into Ice Beam and either Recover or Toxic stall Arceus-Grass.

    **Primal Groudon**: Defensive Primal Groudon with Lava Plume can heavily damage Arceus-Grass, while offensive Primal Groudon with Fire Punch can outright OHKO it. Not even the most specially defensive of Primal Groudon can comfortably switch into Grass Knot, however. It should be noted that Primal Groudon cannot beat Arceus-Grass if it lacks a Fire-type move.

    **Kyurem-W**: Life Orb Kyurem-W can take a Stone Edge and revenge kill Arceus-Grass with Ice Beam. Choice Scarf Kyurem-W can even switch in on a predicted Stone Edge and OHKO Arceus-Grass with Ice Beam if it has taken Stealth Rock damage
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
    Aurora likes this.
  9. Aurora

    Aurora formerly a chair
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    this is done

    :mad:
  10. Nayrz

    Nayrz
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    uploaded

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