Ubers Arceus-Ice

[Nayrz]

Best Arceus forme coming through

QC Checks : 3/3 (Sweep, shrang, Blue Jay)
GP 2/2 (Electrolyte, Kingler12345)
Overview
========
When Arceus can be any single type in the game, one would wonder why it would pick Ice. Its typing gives it great offensive potential, but just so happens to be its downfall as well. Boasting weaknesses to Fighting-, Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-type attacks, as well as a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock and no resistances other than against its own type, Ice Arceus isn't short of problems. It also has trouble switching in, and finds itself to be drawing in many of the metagame's top threats, such as Ho-Oh, Blaziken, and Mega Mewtwo X. Ice Arceus also faces a lot of competition as a Calm Mind sweeper with Electric Arceus, which does the same thing but with far more advantages. With the right support, however, Ice Arceus can still be very threatening.

Calm Mind Sweeper
========
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment / Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 4: Recover / Fire Blast / Flamethrower
item: Icicle Plate
evs: 160 HP / 236 SpA / 112 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
Calm Mind is the best thing that Ice Arceus can do, as Swords Dance is unviable due to the lack of a good physical Ice-type STAB attack. After one Calm Mind, Ice Arceus reaches a high 502 Special Attack with the given EV spread while also boosting its Special Defense, which is necessary to allow Ice Arceus to do heavy damage. Judgment is the best STAB move it gets, but Ice Beam can be used as well, as while it has a drop in power, it can be very useful in Calm Mind wars due to the freeze chance. Thunder completes the BoltBeam combination, as it can 2HKO offensive variants of Kyogre and does massive damage to anything that resists Judgment. Thunderbolt is a less powerful alternative, but makes up for power with reliability, as Thunder is very inaccurate outside of rain. The last move is a tough choice; Recover allows Ice Arceus to have greater longevity so it can set up Calm Minds without any worries, while Fire Blast and Flamethrower can hit the Steel-types that are bound to switch in on it for super effective damage. Another option is to use Blizzard over Judgment if you are running a hail team. Blizzard has 10 more Base Power than Judgment, has a small freeze rate as a bonus, and is also 100% accurate in hail.

Set Details
========
Ice Arceus runs a rather standard Calm Mind set but has some small changes. 160 HP EVs allow Ice Arceus to live a Bullet Punch from Scizor after Stealth Rock damage while also allowing you to take neutral attacks better. 112 EVs in Speed allow Ice Arceus to outspeed everything up to and including Garchomp, which is good because many of Ice Arceus's targets are Dragon-types that fall under this speed tier. One can also choose to run 252 Speed to Speed tie with other Arceus formes and outspeed everything under 120 base Speed. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Special Attack.

Usage Tips
========
Ice Arceus is better suited for the role of a late-game cleaner, as it offers no utility to a team outside of its offensive abilities. If it has Recover, then keeping it for late-game isn't always necessary. Keep entry hazards off the field so Ice Arceus has a much easier time doing work. Switch it in on things that have little offensive presence, such as other Arceus formes that are playing a support role and don't have a type advantage, as well as defensive entry hazard setters such as Shuckle that can't do too much to deter it. Use Calm Mind when the opponent is attempting to set up entry hazards, or when you can Recover off the damage from a special attacker after using Calm Mind, such as against Palkia. When you feel like the opponent is going to switch in a check to Ice Arceus, do not be afraid to just attack— Ice Arceus takes risks just from being there, so taking your chances to use Flamethrower against Scizor or a different Steel-type on the switch can prove to be well worth it. Status is something that you must be wary of when using Ice Arceus, as it can't stand being limited in any way as it is already fairly limited in its ability to sweep. Aside from that, it works like any other Calm Mind Arceus, although Ice Arceus is restricted because of it's typing. It resists nothing other than its own type, so it can't help much at all when checking other threats. Playing carefully is the one thing you have to bear in mind, although its 120 / 120 / 120 defenses mean that is by no means frail.

Team Options
========
The one thing Ice Arceus needs above all is a teammate with Defog to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Stealth Rock removes one-fourth of its health upon switch in, which is something that it must avoid as much as possible. On the flip side, having a teammate that can place Stealth Rock on the opponent's side of the field will be very beneficial to stop Ho-Oh from carelessly switching in on you. In terms of partners for Ice Arceus, Xerneas is good to have. Ice Arceus tends to lure out Xerneas's checks like Scizor, Ho-Oh, and Aegislash, which means if you can take them out, Xerneas can easily set up and sweep the opposing team. Physically defensive Kyogre is also a good partner, as it can check Ho-Oh and effectively neutralize Ice Arceus' Fire weakness and ensure that Thunder hits by bringing rain support, but will weaken the power of your Fire-type move should you choose to use it on your set. Groudon can also be used as a partner, but this comes as a double-edged sword; while Groudon can set up Stealth Rock and make your Fire-type move do more damage, Drought will cause Ice Arceus's Fire weakness to become very troublesome. Ho-Oh is probably the best partner, as it resists three of Ice Arceus's weaknesses and shuts down Scizor, who would otherwise give Ice Arceus trouble. This stacks Pokemon that are weak to Stealth Rock, however, so using Ho-Oh makes keeping your Defog user alive even more crucial. Finally, for Blizzard variants, Mega Abomasnow or Pokemon with hail holding an Icy Rock are very good for keeping Hail up, allowing Blizzard to be used at maximum effectiveness.

Other Options
========
Stone Edge is a move to consider if you wish to lure in Ho-Oh and take it out; however, it takes significant Attack investment to land the OHKO and Ice Arceus can't really afford to give up the EVs for one Pokemon, it should consider a teammate that can handle Ho-Oh instead.
Earth Power is definitely worth considering, as it allows Ice Arceus to hit Fire-types like Heatran and Blaziken which would otherwise give it large problems by inflicting super effective damage. Will-O-Wisp is another option that could be used as Ice Arceus lures in many Pokemon that do not like being burned at all, such as Scizor.
A support set is possible but highly discouraged, due to Ice Arceus carrying multiple weaknesses including entry hazards as well as being completely outclassed by other Arceus formes for this role.

Checks & Counters
========
**Fire-types**: Pokemon such as Blaziken and Ho-Oh are able to OHKO Ice Arceus rather easily and pressure the rest of your team, but are hit hard by Thunder on the switch in so your opponent has to be wary.

**Fighting-types**: Fighting Arceus can switch in and scare Ice Arceus out with its own Judgment. Mega Mewtwo X and Blaziken will also threaten to OHKO with an unboosted Low Kick.

**Steel-types**: The introduction of the popular Xerneas has also led to the rise in Steel-types. Scizor is a massive problem, as Bullet Punch is a 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage and priority is something Ice Arceus cannot handle very well. Heatran, Aegislash, and Steel Arceus are also very threatening as Heatran can effectively wall Ice Arceus without Earth Power and Steel Arceus can potentially set up on Ice Arceus.

**Rock Arceus**: Rock Arceus can switch in and threaten to potentially set up on Ice Arceus or outright KO with Judgment, and none of its moves can hit back super effectively bar Earth Power should you choose to run it.

**Entry hazards**: Ice Arceus hates entry hazards. Stealth Rock strips a quarter of its health upon switch in, while Spikes/Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web also limit any potential for it to actually accomplish something.

**Status**: Ice Arceus can't deal with anything that might limit it, and status is certainly no exception. Paralysis can leave it to be extremely vulnerable and being poisoned can also shorten its already limited time.

**Revenge Killers**: Choice Scarf Genesect can revenge kill Ice Arceus with Iron Head, and Choice Scarf Kyogre can also revenge kill it unless it has a few Calm Mind boosts up. Deoxys-Attack can also accomplish this with a Life Orb-boosted Low Kick. Mega Lucario can outspeed Ice Arceus with the given EV spread and OHKO with Close Combat easily. Even if Ice Arceus is running max Speed, Mega Lucario can pick Ice Arceus off if weakened with Bullet Punch.

Skeleton

Overview
========

• Great offensive typing
• Hits very hard and actually has some offensive presence with it's great coverage options
• Solid 120/120/120 bulk, however this is offset by it's multiple crippling weaknesses
• No resistances other than it's own type
• Is mainly an inferior Electric Arceus, but both give bad team synergy
• Weakness to SR limits it's switch in capabilities, hates hazards in general
• Has trouble finding a switch in opportunity
• Doesn't like status, especially paralysis/toxic
• Invites multiple threats such as Ho-Oh
• More of a gimmick than anything else

Calm Mind Sweeper
========
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment / Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 4: Recover / Fire Blast / Flamethrower
ability: Multitype
item: Icicle Plate
evs: 160 HP / 236 SpA / 112 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

• Judgment is the most reliable STAB move it gets, and while Ice Beam is a drop in base power it can help with possible Calm Mind wars
• Calm Mind is all Arceus-Ice can do, boosts Special Attack to a decent 508 while also boosting Special Defense, which is much needed
• Fire Blast hits Steel types like Scizor, Ferrothorn and Aegislash, which are common switch ins
• Flamethrower is a more accurate alternative, but at the cost of 20 base power
• Running a Fire move comes with it's disadvantages however, as being unable to use recovery limits your lifespan even more
• Thunder completes the BoltBeam combo, can 2HKO non-bulky Kyogre sets such as Scarfed variants as well as hitting Ho-Oh for higher damage, but is very unreliable without rain
• Thunderbolt provides more reliability at the cost of 20 base power, allows you to reliably damage opponents outside of rain
• Recover can add longevity, could be very useful when setting up on Pokemon that can only hit you neutrally and when switching in on entry hazards
• Blizzard on Hail Offense is also an option as it out-damages Judgment and gives an additional 10% chance to freeze as a bonus as well as being 100% accurate in Hail

Set Details
========

• 160 HP allows you to live a Bullet Punch from Scizor after Stealth Rock, however banded variants have a 12.5% chance to OHKO, also gives Ice Arceus much needed bulk
• 236 SpA allows Ice Arceus to do large damage to any dragon in the tier, even unboosted with Judgment
• 112 Speed with a Timid nature allows you to outspeed everything up to and including Garchomp, a useful trait since this allows you to outspeed many of your targets (dragons)
• An alternative spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Speed with a Timid nature is also an option to speed tie with other Arceus and outspeed as much as you possibly can (4 HP means you take 25% damage when switching into SR while having an odd number can allow you to live 4 possible switch ins)

Usage Tips
========

• Switch in on things that have little offensive presence, other Arceus formes that are playing a support role that don't have a type advantage, as well as defensive hazard setters (be wary of status as it is very likely)
• Try to preserve Ice Arceus for late-game, the fact it has zero relevant resistances means you have nothing to work with, but make sure entry hazards are off the field and it can function as a late game cleaner
• Works just like any other Calm Mind Arceus, only differences are that it has more trouble switching in and can't help when checking threats. Once it does get a Calm Mind boost however it can cause trouble for the opponent.
• Play carefully, it's typing limits it defensively although it still has 120/120/120 defenses to work with.

Team Options
========

• Having Stealth Rock is very beneficial to stop Ho-Oh being too switch-happy
• Xerneas is a good partner as Ice Arceus can lure out it's checks (Scizor,other Steel or Fire types) allowing Xerneas to cause chaos if you can successfully remove them
• A defogger / spinner is an absolute must have if you plan to use this seriously to allow you to have more switch in opportunities
• An answer to Ho-Oh is necessary, as you can't do much to it and are forced to switch out
• Groudon is a nice partner as it can bring sunshine and set up Stealth Rocks, however it is a double edged sword - While it boosts your own Fire Blast, it also makes you even more vulnerable to opposing Fire types and turns your Thunder into a 50% accurate move
• On the opposite side, physically defensive Kyogre can also be a great partner as it can check Ho-Oh as well as help to neutralize Ice Arceus' fire weakness by bringing rain support and allows you to have 100% accurate Thunders, but this will weaken Fire Blast
• Mega Abomasnow or a Pokemon that can bring Hail holding an Icy Rock are good teammates for Blizzard variants to maximize effectiveness + accuracy
• Ho-Oh is also a good partner as it can resist Steel, Fire, and Fighting type moves helping to cover Ice Arceus' weaknesses

Other Options
========

• Stone Edge is a worthwhile option to stop you being complete Ho-Oh bait, however you need significant Attack investment to secure an OHKO and Ice Arceus can't afford to give up the EVs
• Earth Power allows you to hit Heatran and other Fire types for super effective damage, and is worth considering
• A support set with Defog is a possibility, but due to Ice Arceus carrying multiple weaknesses including entry hazards as well as being completely outclassed by other Arceus formes, this is highly discouraged

Checks & Counters
========

• Fire Types - Pokemon such as Blaziken and Ho-Oh are given the chance to switch into Ice Arceus rather easily and can proceed to immediately threaten your entire team, especially since either of Blaziken's STABs can crush you. However neither appreciate switching in on Thunder so your opponent has to be wary
• Fighting Types- Arceus-Fighting can also switch in and can scare it out with Judgment, the aforementioned Blaziken will also threaten to OHKO with an unboosted Low Kick. Mega Mewtwo X threatens in the same way as Blaziken
• Steel Types - The popular introduction of Xerneas has also led to the rise in Steel types. Scizor is a massive problem as Bullet Punch is a near certain 2HKO after SR and priority is something Arceus-Ice cannot handle very well. Heatran, Aegislash and Steel Arceus are also very threatening as Heatran can effectively wall you without Earth Power and Steel Arceus can potentially set up in your face.
• Rock Types - While Rock type Pokemon are not commonly seen in ubers, Rock type moves such as Stone Edge are very common as coverage moves and they will hit Ice Arceus fairly hard. Rock Arceus can switch in on any move rather easily and scarf Terrakion is also very threatening.
• Hazards- Ice Arceus hates hazards. Stealth Rocks strips a quarter of it's health upon switch in, while Spikes/Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web also limit any potential for you to actually accomplish something.
• Status - Arceus-Ice can't deal with anything that might limit it, and status is certainly no exception. Paralysis can leave it to be extremely vulnerable to anything that has a type advantage, and Poison/Toxic can also shorten your already limited time.
• Deoxys-Attack - Deoxys-Attack can revenge kill you with a Life Orb boosted Low Kick.

 

[ogasian]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-79723838

Iceceus is a massive threat and not to be taken lightly as shown by this replay. Another interesting fact is that Max HP / Max Defense Iceceus lives a Mega-Lucario Close Combat on 4 percent.

 

[steelskitty]

Mention that it's mostly an inferior Eleceus-- Electric spam is generally better than Ice spam, and Eleceus can just barely pull its weight in team synergy by sponging things like Brave Bird and Bolt Strike. Iceceus is just not providing much team synergy. Also, point out the disadvantages of running Flamethrower / Fire Blast in place of a recovery move--you have a disappointing lifespan already with your SR weakness, though luring out something like Ferrothorn can be nice.

 

[Nayrz]

Alright, suggestions so far have been added.

 

[Minority]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-79723838

Iceceus is a massive threat and not to be taken lightly as shown by this replay. Another interesting fact is that Max HP / Max Defense Iceceus lives a Mega-Lucario Close Combat on 4 percent.

As hilarious and awesome as that replay is, no competent player would ever just sit and let Arceus Calm Mind like that. The only thing that this replay shows is how little Ice-ceus takes from even powerful super effective moves like V-Create when the opponent is burned, but that's already common sense.

You could have done the same thing with any stat booster, in fact something like Geomancy Xerneas could have done the same thing in half the time so long as you battled someone who was a complete idiot.

 

[MMII]

get this in skeleton format please

 

[Nayrz]

get this in skeleton format please

Apologies, I had the meaning of skeleton format down wrong in my head somehow, this any better?

 

[Sweep]

OK, time for my daily massive post. To start off, your spacing is odd; try to make sure each section is only one space below the prior section. For instance, there is a 5 space gap between Usage Tips and Other Options. Remove the big gaps please, it'll make the skeleton and eventual analysis more aesthetically pleasing and easier to read. I do thank you for getting this into skeleton format in such a short period of time, however.

Overview

Clarify what you mean by "forces switches, for the wrong reasons." I didn't understand this, so I am guessing a fair number of people also don't. You overstate how well it does vs. Dragons, as it loses to Dialga & Reshiram and cannot switch into any of them because Ice Arceus does not resist Dragon (and is weak to Fire Blast / V-Create). I'd just remove the latter half of the first bullet point. You hint at this but explicitly mention that Ice Arceus is merely an offensive powerhouse. It hits pretty hard and has great coverage, so it does not lack offensive presence at all. Its weaknesses mostly lie in its awful defensive typing.

Calm Mind Sweeper

1. Remove the quotation marks from the set name; this thing is Generation 1 Mewtwo compared to something like Bug Arceus and actually CAN be threatening.

2. Make sure to include a space in between slashes (so Recover / Fire Blast / Flamethrower instead of Recover/Fire Blast/Flamethrower).

3. Speaking of moves, make Recover first slash in the final moveslot, especially with an EV spread containing a lot of HP. It's still an Arceus and will find some opportunities to use Recover.

4. I'm fine with the given EV spread but list a max Speed spread in Set Details.

5. Ice Beam is still very useful in Calm Mind wars due to the freeze rate; the reason to use it is not "gone." I agree Judgment is better since realistically Ice Arceus will not get into too many Calm Mind wars (orgasm if it does), but Ice Beam is far from unviable and deserves a slash after Judgment IMO.

6. Add another bullet point discussing Blizzard on Hail Offense (Blizzard spam isn't very good in Ubers, but it's worth a sentence or two because Blizzard has more power than Judgment AND can freeze the opponent on occasion). It's dreadfully unreliable so do not slash it.

7. QUESTION FOR QC: Should Arceus run 112 speed with a Timid nature for Garchomp, or is that considered speed creep? I don't see a problem in EVing Ice Arceus to outrun chompy...

8. Physically Defensive Kyogre pairs well with Ice Arceus as it resists Fire moves and checks Ho-Oh while temporarily increasing Thunder's accuracy. I cannot think of a Rock move that Kyogre cannot safely switch in on either (maybe band Terrakion's Stone Edge lol). Also mention Icy Rock and Mega Abomasnow for Blizzard variants, though that stacks Ice types. Mention Ho-Oh as well, as it resists Fighting, Steel, and Fire-type moves. For example, it shuts down Mega Scizor. A shame that Ho-Oh stacks SR weak mons. Ho-Oh with Sleep Talk can kinda absorb status, too (though it really does not like Toxic).

9. Usage Tips need more detail. We don't need to know that Iceceus needs to beware of Fire types, you will talk about that in the Checks & Counters section. Talk about how it plays, and specify WHAT kinds of Pokemon (or at least predicted moves) Ice Arceus can switch in on. Let me know if you need help and I know Ice Arceus is hard to use, but this section lacks detail.

Other Options

Ice Arceus is a high risk Pokemon anyway, Blizzard + Hail is worth a mention in the "Moves" section (just not a slash).

Mention a support set, then briefly explain why it sucks :p.

Checks & Counters

Both Blaziken and Ho-Oh are hit hard by Thunder on the switch, so neither can switch in "for free" 100% of the time. Aegislash / Heatran .Steel Arceus deserve an explicit mention in the "Steel" section, and Scarf Reshiram can be mentioned in the Fire type section. Remove the Rock Slide mention, as it will almost never be used vs. Ice Arceus (the Pokemon that sometimes carry Rock Slide, such as Earth Plate Groudon and Mega Mewtwo X, are better off using their STAB moves). Mention Rock Arceus in the Rock section, and Scarf Terrakion deserves a mention somewhere. Life Orb Deoxys-A revenges with Low Kick.


You seem to know what you are doing, so:

QC 1/3

 

[Nayrz]

OK, time for my daily massive post. To start off, your spacing is odd; try to make sure each section is only one space below the prior section. For instance, there is a 5 space gap between Usage Tips and Other Options. Remove the big gaps please, it'll make the skeleton and eventual analysis more aesthetically pleasing and easier to read. I do thank you for getting this into skeleton format in such a short period of time, however.

Overview

Clarify what you mean by "forces switches, for the wrong reasons." I didn't understand this, so I am guessing a fair number of people also don't. You overstate how well it does vs. Dragons, as it loses to Dialga & Reshiram and cannot switch into any of them because Ice Arceus does not resist Dragon (and is weak to Fire Blast / V-Create). I'd just remove the latter half of the first bullet point. You hint at this but explicitly mention that Ice Arceus is merely an offensive powerhouse. It hits pretty hard and has great coverage, so it does not lack offensive presence at all. Its weaknesses mostly lie in its awful defensive typing.

Calm Mind Sweeper

1. Remove the quotation marks from the set name; this thing is Generation 1 Mewtwo compared to something like Bug Arceus and actually CAN be threatening.

2. Make sure to include a space in between slashes (so Recover / Fire Blast / Flamethrower instead of Recover/Fire Blast/Flamethrower).

3. Speaking of moves, make Recover first slash in the final moveslot, especially with an EV spread containing a lot of HP. It's still an Arceus and will find some opportunities to use Recover.

4. I'm fine with the given EV spread but list a max Speed spread in Set Details.

5. Ice Beam is still very useful in Calm Mind wars due to the freeze rate; the reason to use it is not "gone." I agree Judgment is better since realistically Ice Arceus will not get into too many Calm Mind wars (orgasm if it does), but Ice Beam is far from unviable and deserves a slash after Judgment IMO.

6. Add another bullet point discussing Blizzard on Hail Offense (Blizzard spam isn't very good in Ubers, but it's worth a sentence or two because Blizzard has more power than Judgment AND can freeze the opponent on occasion). It's dreadfully unreliable so do not slash it.

7. QUESTION FOR QC: Should Arceus run 112 speed with a Timid nature for Garchomp, or is that considered speed creep? I don't see a problem in EVing Ice Arceus to outrun chompy...

8. Physically Defensive Kyogre pairs well with Ice Arceus as it resists Fire moves and checks Ho-Oh while temporarily increasing Thunder's accuracy. I cannot think of a Rock move that Kyogre cannot safely switch in on either (maybe band Terrakion's Stone Edge lol). Also mention Icy Rock and Mega Abomasnow for Blizzard variants, though that stacks Ice types. Mention Ho-Oh as well, as it resists Fighting, Steel, and Fire-type moves. For example, it shuts down Mega Scizor. A shame that Ho-Oh stacks SR weak mons. Ho-Oh with Sleep Talk can kinda absorb status, too (though it really does not like Toxic).

9. Usage Tips need more detail. We don't need to know that Iceceus needs to beware of Fire types, you will talk about that in the Checks & Counters section. Talk about how it plays, and specify WHAT kinds of Pokemon (or at least predicted moves) Ice Arceus can switch in on. Let me know if you need help and I know Ice Arceus is hard to use, but this section lacks detail.

Other Options

Ice Arceus is a high risk Pokemon anyway, Blizzard + Hail is worth a mention in the "Moves" section (just not a slash).

Mention a support set, then briefly explain why it sucks :p.

Checks & Counters

Both Blaziken and Ho-Oh are hit hard by Thunder on the switch, so neither can switch in "for free" 100% of the time. Aegislash / Heatran .Steel Arceus deserve an explicit mention in the "Steel" section, and Scarf Reshiram can be mentioned in the Fire type section. Remove the Rock Slide mention, as it will almost never be used vs. Ice Arceus (the Pokemon that sometimes carry Rock Slide, such as Earth Plate Groudon and Mega Mewtwo X, are better off using their STAB moves). Mention Rock Arceus in the Rock section, and Scarf Terrakion deserves a mention somewhere. Life Orb Deoxys-A revenges with Low Kick.


You seem to know what you are doing, so:

QC 1/3

Thanks for the help, Sweep. Changes have been implemented and I have edited the article to clear up any issues with spacing but I have run into a wall when it comes to Usage Tips (other than don't use it lol). In the time that I was gathering experience with Iceceus I noticed that the best chances I had with it were only caused by using a misplay by the opponent to my advantage (not sure if prediction can really help since nearly EVERYTHING can cause trouble for Iceceus)

Also the "Forces switches, for the wrong reasons" was just my bad attempt at a joke, it's removed now.

 

[user php]

Also the "Forces switches, for the wrong reasons" was just my bad attempt at a joke, it's removed now.

If this analysis has taught me anything, it is that Nayrz is a terrible comedian.
"joke" def sig worthy tho imo.

 

[shrang]

qc approved 2/3

 

[Nayrz]

Sweet. I'll have this written up hopefully by the end of today, if not then definitely by the end of the weekend.

Edit: Had more spare time than I thought, it's (hopefully) done now.

 

[Blue Jay]

Overview
I like.

Calm Mind
502 SpA is high, if not more. Also clarify that it's SpA (currently there's just a number). "Offensive" variants of Kyogre. "Greater" longevity. Blizzard has a 10% higher chance (or say 20% chance) to freeze (Sorry for going all wannabe GP I'll stop). Make the usage tips less ambiguous and broad; they're a lot about playing lategame and coming in on non-threats, which is all good, but mention stuff like when it's best to CM and when you would rather just attack flat out (eg trying to roast Scizor on the switch). You also don't always have to wait until lategame if it's running Recover. Mention Giratina-O as a partner, since you can't use Defog Arceus (it's also a great check for Fighting types). Lando-T is a good alternative to Groudon.

Other Options
Lol what other options this mon sucks.
Will-o-Wisp is viable since it lures a lot of mons that hate burns (as viable as the rest of the mon anyway).

Checks & Counters
Just give Rock Arceus its own mention instead of Rock types. Scarf Terrakion is not viable (the whole mon is actually pretty questionable in Ubers). Mega Aerodactyl might be deemed viable but it can't switch in, so it'll go under the 3rd last check (just before hazards/status), which iiiiiiiiis...

Revenge killing. Remove Deo-A and put it here. Scarf Kyogre (unless you have a lot of boosts), Scarf Genesect, Lucario (unless you're max speed, and even then Bullet Punch can pick you off at low HP), whatever else you can think of.

QC: 3/3

 

[Nayrz]

All is done and dusted, now we wait for the GP team to destroy my faith in writing patch things up. :)

 

[Cobalt314]

Slight nitpick, but remove the apostrophe from the first "it's." An apostrophe means "it is", while no apostrophe shows possession.

 

[Nayrz]

Ah yes, the one error I keep carelessly making when writing. I fixed it in places where i seen the errors but i'm rather tired atm so I probably missed one or two.

 

[Electrolyte]

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Overview
========

When Arceus can be any single type in the game, one would wonder why anyone it would pick Ice. Its typing gives it great offensive potential, but just so happens to be it's its downfall as well. Boasting weaknesses to Fighting-, Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-type attacks as well as a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock and no resistances other than against its own type, Ice Arceus isn't short of problems. It also has trouble switching in,(AC) on anything, and finds itself to be luring drawing in many of the metagame's top threats, such as Ho-Oh, Blaziken,(AC) and Mega Mewtwo X. If you are looking for a good Calm Mind sweeper, Electric Arceus does the same thing as Ice Arceus but with far more advantages. Ice Arceus also faces a lot of competition as a Calm Mind sweeper with Electric Arceus, which does the same thing but with far more advantages. With the right support,(AC) however, Ice Arceus can still be very threatening. (do not refer to the reader in the Overview)

Calm Mind Sweeper
========
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment / Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 4: Recover / Fire Blast / Flamethrower
item: Icicle Plate
evs: 160 HP / 236 SpA / 112 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Calm Mind is the best thing that Ice Arceus can do since Swords Dance is unviable due to the lack of a good physical Ice-type STAB attack. After one Calm Mind, Ice Arceus reaches a decent 502 SpA with the given EV spread while also boosting its Special Defense, which is necessary to allow Ice Arceus to do heavy damage. Judgment is the best reliable STAB move it gets, but Ice Beam can be used as well, as while it and while Ice Beam has a drop in power, it can be very useful in Calm Mind wars due to the 10% freeze chance. Thunder completes the BoltBeam combination, as it can 2HKO offensive variants of Kyogre such as the Choice Scarf set, and does massive damage to anything that resists Judgment. Thunderbolt is a less powerful alternative, but makes up for power with reliability, as without rain, Thunder can be is very inaccurate outside of rain. The last move is a tough choice;(+Semicolon) - Recover allows you Arceus to have greater longevity so you it can set up Calm Minds without any worries, while Fire Blast or and Flamethrower can hit the Steel-(+Hyph.)types that are bound to switch in on you it for super effective damage. Another option is to use Blizzard over Judgment if you are running a Hail team. Blizzard has 10 more base power over than Judgment, has a 10% freeze rate as a bonus,(AC) while Judgment does not and is also 100% accurate in Hail.

Set Details
========

Ice Arceus runs a rather standard Calm Mind set but has some small changes. 160 HP EVs allows Ice Arceus to live a Bullet Punch from Scizor after Stealth Rock damage while also giving much needed bulk. 236 Special Attack EVs allows Ice Arceus to do great damage to any Dragon-type in the tier with Judgment and lets you it do as much damage as possible to anything else with its coverage moves. 112 EVs in Speed allows Ice Arceus to outspeed everything up to and including Garchomp, which is good because many of your Arceus's targets (Dragons-types) can now be then outsped. One can also choose to run a max Speed spread to Speed tie with other Arceus formes and outspeed as much as possible.

Usage Tips
========

Ice Arceus is better suited for the role of a late game cleaner, as it offers no utility to a team outside of it's its offensive abilities. If it has Recover,(AC) then keeping it for late-(+Hyph.)game isn't always necessary. Keep entry hazards off the field and so Ice Arceus has a much easier time doing some work. Switch it in on things that have little offensive presence, such as other Arceus formes that are playing a support role that and don't have a type advantage, as well as defensive entry hazard setters such as Ferrothorn that can't do too much to you deter it. Use Calm Mind when the opponent is attempting to set up entry hazards, or when you Arceus can Recover off the damage from a special attacker as you it uses Calm Mind, such as against Palkia. When you feel like the opponent is going to switch in a check to Ice Arceus, do not be afraid to just attack—-(-Hyph.)Ice Arceus takes risks just from being there,(AC) so taking your chances to Flamethrower Scizor or a different Steel-(+Hyph.)type on the switch can prove to be well worth it. Status is something that you must be wary of when using Ice Arceus,(AC) as -(-Hyph.) it can't stand being limited in any way as it is already fairly limited in its ability to sweep. Aside from that, it works like any other Calm Mind Arceus, although Ice Arceus is restricted because of it's typing.(+Period) -(-Hyph.) It resists nothing other than it's its own type, so it can't help much at all when checking other threats. Playing carefully is the one thing you have to bear in mind, although it's its 120 / 120 / 120 defenses mean that is by no means frail.

Team Options
========

The one thing Ice Arceus needs above all is a teammate with Defog to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Stealth Rock removes a quarter of your its health upon switch in, which is something that it must avoid as much as possible. On the flip side, having a teammate that can place Stealth Rock on the opponents side of the field will be very beneficial to stop Ho-Oh from carelessly switching in on you. In terms of partners for Ice Arceus, Xerneas is good to have. Ice Arceus tends to lure out Xerneas' checks like Scizor, Ho-Oh,(AC) and Aegislash, which means if you can take them out,(AC) Xerneas can easily set up and sweep the opposing team. Physically defensive Kyogre is also a good partner, as it can check Ho-Oh,(AC) and effectively neutralize Ice Arceus' Fire weakness and ensuringe that Thunder hits by bringing rain support, but will weaken the power of your Fire-type move should you choose to use it on your set. Groudon can also be used as a partner, but this comes as a double edged sword.(+Period) - While Groudon can set up Stealth Rocks and make your Fire-type move do more damage, Drought will cause Ice Arceus' Fire weakness to become very troublesome. Ho-Oh is probably the best partner, as it resists 3 three of Ice Arceus' weaknesses and shuts down Scizor, who would otherwise be a great check to Ice Arceus. This stacks Pokemon that are weak to Stealth Rock,(AC) however, so using Ho-Oh makes keeping your Defog user ger alive even more crucial. Finally, for Blizzard variants, Mega Abomasnow or Pokemon with hail holding an Icy Rock are very good for keeping hail up, allowing Blizzard to be used at maximum effectiveness.

Other Options
========

Stone Edge is a move to consider if you wish to lure in Ho-Oh and take it out, however it takes significant Attack investment to land the OHKO and Ice Arceus can't really afford to give up the EVs for one Pokemon, it should consider a teammate that can handle Ho-Oh instead. Earth Power is definitely worth considering, as it allows you to hit Fire-(+Hyph.)types like Heatran and Blaziken which would otherwise would give you large problems for by inflicting super effective damage. Will-O-Wisp is another option that could be used as Ice Arceus lures in many Pokemon that do not like being burned at all, such as Scizor.
A support set is possible but highly discouraged, due to Ice Arceus carrying multiple weaknesses including entry hazards as well as being completely outclassed by other Arceus formes for this role.

Checks & Counters
========
(":" behind every "**x**")
**Fire-types**: Pokemon such as Blaziken and Ho-Oh are able to OHKO Ice Arceus rather easily and pressure the rest of your team, but are hit hard by Thunder on the switch in so your opponent has to be wary.

**Fighting-types**: Arceus-Fighting can switch in and scare Ice Arceus out with it'(-Apos.)s own Judgment. Mega Mewtwo X and Blaziken will also threaten to OHKO with an unboosted Low Kick.

**Steel-types**: The popular introduction of Xerneas has also led to the rise in Steel-types. Scizor is a massive problem as Bullet Punch is a near certain 2HKO after Stealth Rock and priority is something Arceus-Ice cannot handle very well. Heatran, Aegislash,(AC) and Steel Arceus are also very threatening as Heatran can effectively wall you without Earth Power and Steel Arceus can potentially set up on Ice Arceus.

**Rock Arceus**: Rock Arceus can switch in and threaten to potentially set up on you or outright KO with Judgment, and none of your moves can hit back super effectively barring Earth Power should you choose to run it.

**Entry hazards**: Ice Arceus hates entry hazards. Stealth Rocks strips a quarter of it'(-Apos.)s health upon switch in, while Spikes / Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web also limit any potential for you to actually accomplish something.

**Status**: Arceus-Ice can't deal with anything that might limit it, and status is certainly no exception. Paralysis can leave it to be extremely vulnerable and being Poisoned/Toxiced poisoned can also shorten your already limited time.

**Revenge Killers**: Choice Scarf Genesect can revenge kill with Iron Head, and Choice Scarf Kyogre can also revenge kill you unless you have a few Calm Mind boosts up. Deoxys-(+Hyph.)Attack can also do this with a Life Orb-(+Hyph.)boosted Low Kick. Mega Lucario can outspeed the given EV spread and OHKO with Close Combat easily. If Ice Arceus is running max Speed then Mega Lucario can still pick Ice Arceus off if weakened with Bullet Punch.

Nayrz

GP 1/2

 

[Nayrz]

GP check has been implemented, thanks Electrolyte!

This is now GP 1/2.

 

[Kingler]

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Overview
========
When Arceus can be any single type in the game, one would wonder why it would pick Ice. Its typing gives it great offensive potential, but just so happens to be its downfall as well. Boasting weaknesses to Fighting-, Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-type attacks, as well as a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock and no resistances other than against its own type, Ice Arceus isn't short of problems. It also has trouble switching in, and finds itself to be drawing in many of the metagame's top threats, such as Ho-Oh, Blaziken, and Mega Mewtwo X. Ice Arceus also faces a lot of competition as a Calm Mind sweeper with Electric Arceus, which does the same thing but with far more advantages. With the right support, however, Ice Arceus can still be very threatening.

Calm Mind Sweeper
========
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment / Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 4: Recover / Fire Blast / Flamethrower
item: Icicle Plate
evs: 160 HP / 236 SpA / 112 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
Calm Mind is the best thing that Ice Arceus can do, as Swords Dance is unviable due to the lack of a good physical Ice-type STAB attack. After one Calm Mind, Ice Arceus reaches a decent 502 Special Attack with the given EV spread while also boosting its Special Defense, which is necessary to allow Ice Arceus to do heavy damage. Judgment is the best STAB move it gets, but Ice Beam can be used as well, as while it has a drop in power, it can be very useful in Calm Mind wars due to the freeze chance. Thunder completes the BoltBeam combination, as it can 2HKO offensive variants of Kyogre and does massive damage to anything that resists Judgment. Thunderbolt is a less powerful alternative, but makes up for power with reliability, as Thunder is very inaccurate outside of rain. The last move is a tough choice; Recover allows Ice Arceus to have greater longevity so it can set up Calm Minds without any worries, while Fire Blast and Flamethrower can hit the Steel-types that are bound to switch in on it for super effective damage. Another option is to use Blizzard over Judgment if you are running a hail team. Blizzard has more Base Power than Judgment, has a freeze rate as a bonus, and is also 100% accurate in hail.

Set Details
========
Ice Arceus runs a rather standard Calm Mind set but has some small changes. 160 HP EVs allow Ice Arceus to live a Bullet Punch from Scizor after Stealth Rock damage while also giving it much-needed bulk (anything more specific? this last part is p vague..). 236 Special Attack EVs allow Ice Arceus to do great damage to any Dragon-type in the tier with Judgment and let it do as much damage as possible to anything else with its coverage moves(any specific OHKOs? 2HKOs?). 112 EVs in Speed allow Ice Arceus to outspeed everything up to and including Garchomp, which is good because many of Ice Arceus's targets (Dragon-types) can then be outsped (Something like 'which it can proceed to OHKO with Judgment' would be more informative as you already mention what it outspeeds). One can also choose to run 252 Speed to Speed tie with other Arceus formes and outspeed as much as possible (again, adds nothing informative).

Usage Tips
========
Ice Arceus is better suited for the role of a late-game cleaner, as it offers no utility to a team outside of its offensive abilities. If it has Recover, then keeping it for late-game isn't always necessary. Keep entry hazards off the field so Ice Arceus has a much easier time doing work. Switch it in on things that have little offensive presence, such as other Arceus formes that are playing a support role and don't have a type advantage, as well as defensive entry hazard setters such as Ferrothorn that can't do too much to deter it (not qc, but gyro ball+leech seed doesn't seem like 'can't do too much'). Use Calm Mind when the opponent is attempting to set up entry hazards, or when you can Recover off the damage from a special attacker as it uses after using Calm Mind, such as against Palkia. When you feel like the opponent is going to switch in a check to Ice Arceus, do not be afraid to just attack—Ice Arceus takes risks just from being there, so taking your chances to use Flamethrower against Scizor or a different Steel-type on the switch can prove to be well worth it. Status is something that you must be wary of when using Ice Arceus, as it can't stand being limited in any way as it is already fairly limited in its ability to sweep. Aside from that, it works like any other Calm Mind Arceus, although Ice Arceus is restricted because of its typing. It resists nothing other than its own type, so it can't help much at all when checking other threats. Playing carefully is the one thing you have to bear in mind, although its 120 / 120 / 120 defenses mean that is by no means frail.

Team Options
========
The one thing Ice Arceus needs above all is a teammate with Defog to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Stealth Rock removes one-fourth of its health upon switch in, which is something that it must avoid as much as possible. On the flip side, having a teammate that can place Stealth Rock on the opponent's side of the field will be very beneficial to stop Ho-Oh from carelessly switching in on you. In terms of partners for Ice Arceus, Xerneas is good to have. Ice Arceus tends to lure out Xerneas's checks like Scizor, Ho-Oh, and Aegislash, which means if you can take them out, Xerneas can easily set up and sweep the opposing team. Physically defensive Kyogre is also a good partner, as it can check Ho-Oh and effectively neutralize Ice Arceus's Fire weakness and ensure that Thunder hits by bringing rain support, but will weaken the power of your Fire-type move should you choose to use it on your set. Groudon can also be used as a partner, but this comes as a double-edged sword; while Groudon can set up Stealth Rock and make your Fire-type move do more damage, Drought will cause Ice Arceus's Fire weakness to become very troublesome. Ho-Oh is probably the best partner, as it resists three of Ice Arceus's weaknesses and shuts down Scizor, which would otherwise give Ice Arceus trouble. This stacks Pokemon that are weak to Stealth Rock, however, so using Ho-Oh makes keeping your Defog user alive even more crucial. Finally, for Blizzard variants, Mega Abomasnow or Pokemon with Hail holding an Icy Rock are very good for keeping hail up, allowing Blizzard to be used at maximum effectiveness.

Other Options
========
Stone Edge is a move to consider if you wish to lure in Ho-Oh and take it out; however, it takes significant Attack investment to land the OHKO and Ice Arceus can't really afford to give up the EVs for one Pokemon, it should consider a teammate that can handle Ho-Oh instead.
Earth Power is definitely worth considering, as it allows Ice Arceus to hit Fire-types like Heatran and Blaziken which would otherwise give it large problems by inflicting super effective damage. Will-O-Wisp is another option that could be used as Ice Arceus lures in many Pokemon that do not like being burned at all, such as Scizor.
A support set is possible but highly discouraged, due to Ice Arceus carrying multiple weaknesses including entry hazards as well as being completely outclassed by other Arceus formes for this role.

Checks & Counters
========
**Fire-types**: Pokemon such as Blaziken and Ho-Oh are able to OHKO Ice Arceus rather easily and pressure the rest of your team, but are hit hard by Thunder on the switch in so your opponent has to be wary.

**Fighting-types**: Fighting Arceus can switch in and scare Ice Arceus out with its own Judgment. Mega Mewtwo X and Blaziken will also threaten to OHKO with an unboosted Low Kick.

**Steel-types**: The introduction of the popular Xerneas has also led to the rise in Steel-types. Scizor is a massive problem, as Bullet Punch is a near-certain 2HKO (you earlier said it avoids the OHKO, might wanna check this) after Stealth Rock and priority is something Ice Arceus cannot handle very well. Heatran, Aegislash, and Steel Arceus are also very threatening as Heatran can effectively wall Ice Arceus that lack Earth Power and Steel Arceus can potentially set up on Ice Arceus.

**Rock Arceus**: Rock Arceus can switch in and threaten to potentially set up on Ice Arceus or outright KO with Judgment, and none of its moves can hit back super effectively bar Earth Power should you choose to run it.

**Entry hazards**: Ice Arceus hates entry hazards. Stealth Rock strips a quarter of its health upon switch in, while Spikes/Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web also limit any potential for it to actually accomplish something.

**Status** Ice Arceus can't deal with anything that might limit it, and status is certainly no exception. Paralysis can leave it to be extremely vulnerable and being poisoned can also shorten its already limited time.

**Revenge Killers** Choice Scarf Genesect can revenge kill Ice Arceus with Iron Head, and Choice Scarf Kyogre can also revenge kill it unless it has a few Calm Mind boosts up. Deoxys-A can also accomplish this with a Life Orb-boosted Low Kick. Mega Lucario can outspeed Ice Arceus with the given EV spread and OHKO with Close Combat easily. Even if Ice Arceus is running max Speed, Mega Lucario can pick Ice Arceus off if weakened with Bullet Punch.

 

[Nayrz]

Alright, changes have been implemented, and edits have been made where necessary.

In answer to (any specific OHKOs? 2HKOs?) in Set Details, the Special Attack investment is mainly just what's left when the other specified EVs have been added, no notable things to mention there.

 

[Rotosect]

As hilarious and awesome as that replay is, no competent player would ever just sit and let Arceus Calm Mind like that. The only thing that this replay shows is how little Ice-ceus takes from even powerful super effective moves like V-Create when the opponent is burned, but that's already common sense.

You could have done the same thing with any stat booster, in fact something like Geomancy Xerneas could have done the same thing in half the time so long as you battled someone who was a complete idiot.

But if Arceus-Ice is capable of doing that by itself, imagine if it had proper team support. It might not be the best Arceus form, but most people aren't even giving it a chance (in fact it's the only Arceus form placed in C- rank, lower than bug and psychic, which is complete BS to me).

I also disagree that Arceus-Electric is overall better because Ice STAB is more useful than Electric STAB in Ubers, and the Ground weakness prevents it from beating threats such as Groudon.

Arceus-Ice's niche is being the fastest ice type special attacker in the game, and in a tier where ice is a common weakness and Defog support is so easy to get it warrants its niche.

 

[Blue Jay]

But if Arceus-Ice is capable of doing that by itself, imagine if it had proper team support. It might not be the best Arceus form, but most people aren't even giving it a chance (in fact it's the only Arceus form placed in C- rank, lower than bug and psychic, which is complete BS to me).

I also disagree that Arceus-Electric is overall better because Ice STAB is more useful than Electric STAB in Ubers, and the Ground weakness prevents it from beating threats such as Groudon.

Arceus-Ice's niche is being the fastest ice type special attacker in the game, and in a tier where ice is a common weakness and Defog support is so easy to get it warrants its niche.

Are you honestly using a replay that was posted sarcastically to make a point? All the opponent had to do was bring in Ho-Oh on Turn 2, use Sacred Fire, and on the off chance that Ice Arceus survives the encounter, Rayquaza could pick it off with Extremespeed or Darkrai could put it to sleep and finish it off. Obviously any Arceus forme will sweep a completely incompetent player if they let it set up to +6/+6.

Groudon is easily worn down. Having massive problems with Ho-Oh (especially if you're providing it Defogs yourself) is a far greater issue. Sure Ice STAB hits more, but Electric Arceus gets a few actually usable resistances. More importantly, Ice Arceus has so many bigger weaknesses that it astounds me that you do not see the inferiority. Electric Arceus can wear down Groudon on switches and OHKO Landorus-T and Gliscor, with Ground Arceus or the odd Mega Mewtwo X with Earthquake (not nearly a OHKO) being the only really troubling offensive threats. Ice Arceus either lacks Recover or struggles far more with Steel-types than Electric Arceus (Scizor being very troublesome even if you carry a Fire move), struggles with Rock Arceus and Tyranitar, Ho-Oh and Heatran, as well as having no chance against Protect Blaziken or Mega Mewtwo X.

I would also like to know where Defog support is easy to get while using Ice Arceus, because Mega Scizor is not good at it, Giratina-O gets worn down and dies and the other options are even worse.

 

[Kingler]

Nayrz that was GP approved 2/2 but I forgot to mention it so this is done. You have said 236 SpA EVs let it do great damage to any Dragon-type but afaik it would OHKO most of them anyway, hence my question. What you have is irrelevant information that tells absolutely nothing to the user so you might as well say that the rest are dumped into Special Attack.

 

[Nayrz]

Alright, changed the mention of the Special Attack EVs, so this is now done! Thanks Kingler!

 

[user php]

I think "it" refers to Arceus-Ice, not the reader in that sentence.