1. Our third apparel sale is live. New design + reprint of the athletic design. Support us and get a shirt!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  3. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

Ubers Arceus-Normal

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Nayrz, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    [​IMG]
    something something pre-battle tintinnabulation

    QC 3/3 (Fireburn, Minority, Dominatio)
    GP 2/2 (Mr. Uncompetitive, Fireflame479)
    [OVERVIEW]

    Arceus's ability to sweep late-game thanks to its strong priority move in Extreme Speed makes it a good fit on offensive teams, as it can pick off threatening sweepers to the playstyle such as Geomancy Xerneas and Rock Polish Primal Groudon. Arceus's bulk and typing give it set up opportunities against many Pokemon in Ubers, allowing it to set up Swords Dance in a game consistently. The prevalence of Ghost-types in Ubers can work both ways for Arceus, however; it makes its immunity to Ghost-type moves more useful, but it also doesn't appreciate there being more Pokemon in the metagame that are immune to Extreme Speed. This, combined with the fact that the Extreme Killer set has many checks to contend with in Marshadow, Zygarde-C, Celesteela, and a more commonly seen Giratina, means that its offensive abilities can be a little restricted. Some checks such as Mega Gengar and Mega Lucario are also able to threaten Extreme Killer Arceus without the fear of being OHKOed first. Psychic Terrain prevents Arceus from using its Extreme Speed as long as it is active as well, making it difficult to pick off dangerous threats such as Deoxys-A and Geomancy Xerneas.

    [SET]
    name: Extreme Killer
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Extreme Speed
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Earthquake / Ice Beam
    item: Chople Berry
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    Swords Dance and Extreme Speed are staples for Extreme Killer Arceus. Extreme Speed deals upwards of 40% to Geomancy Xerneas unboosted, allowing Arceus to be a good revenge killer to it if a teammate such as offensive Primal Groudon can knock it into that range. When boosted by Swords Dance, Arceus is able to clean weakened teams without any retaliation thanks to Extreme Speed's priority. Shadow Claw offers great neutral coverage when combined with Extreme Speed, giving Arceus the ability to hit Ghost-types such as Marshadow, Lunala, and Giratina-O. Earthquake grants coverage against Steel-types such as Mega Lucario and Dialga while also hitting Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Arceus-Rock as well as other Pokemon like Toxapex and Primal Groudon harder than Extreme Speed. Ice Beam is an alternative option to Earthquake that targets Zygarde-C and Mega Salamence, but it requires a small amount of chip damage to 2HKO Zygarde-C and also requires Stealth Rock damage to OHKO Mega Salamence.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature gives Arceus the greatest damage output, something it requires due to not having any boosting item behind its attacks. 16 Speed EVs let Arceus outspeed neutral-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon, such as Adamant Primal Groudon. Due to Extreme Speed's priority, Arceus can afford to make the trade of running less Speed in favor of HP, and as such, the rest of the EVs are all poured into bulk, making excellent use of Arceus's stats to be more difficult to take down. An alternative Speed benchmark is 124 Speed EVs, outspeeding positive-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Jolly Ho-Oh. It also outspeeds Jolly Excadrill and any Pokemon below base 100 Speed running a neutral nature. Chople Berry is necessary to prevent Pokemon such as Marshadow and Mega Lucario from easily revenge killing Arceus. It also helps against Fighting-type coverage from Mega Gengar and Lunala.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Extreme Killer Arceus should be used as a late-game cleaner once checks such as Celesteela, Zygarde-C, and Giratina are sufficiently dealt with. The usage of Chople Berry means that Arceus doesn't have to fear Fighting-types such as Marshadow as greatly. Arceus being immune to Spectral Thief also means that Marshadow cannot realistically steal Arceus's Swords Dance boosts. However, Fighting-type attacks will still deal heavy damage regardless of the Chople Berry's damage reduction, so keep Arceus as healthy as possible in order to tank a Fighting-type attack. Keep in mind that this set has little Speed investment, which can become an issue when facing Mega Lucario and other faster threats resistant or immune to Extreme Speed such as Mega Gengar, as they can get a strong hit on Arceus first and potentially take it down. Extreme Killer Arceus can be used to revenge kill offensive threats to its team such as Geomancy Xerneas, Rock Polish Primal Groudon, and Deoxys-A if necessary. Be aware of Psychic Terrain, as it stops Arceus from being able to use Extreme Speed against grounded Pokemon, which could be detrimental to Arceus's ability to sweep or revenge kill threats. Despite the bulk this set has, it is still vulnerable to status moves, and the lack of recovery means that any damage on Arceus will stay. Try to keep Arceus in pristine condition in preparation for a late-game sweep.

    Team Options
    ========

    This set best fits teams ranging from bulky offense to hyper offense. Primal Groudon makes for a great partner, as it is able to use a variety of sets to assist Arceus. Offensive sets can break down the enemy team, allowing Arceus to clean up, while Stealth Rock sets can set the entry hazard to put more Pokemon into range of Extreme Speed or other coverage options prior to the late-game. Primal Groudon can also take advantage of Tyranitar and has the ability to force out Mega Lucario and Mega Gengar if given the ability to switch in safely. Mega Gengar can fit on similar styles of teams that Arceus can and can use a set catered to taking down some of Arceus's checks such as Lugia and Skarmory if so desired. Mega Salamence can put pressure on Celesteela and Primal Groudon for Arceus and also take advantage of some status ailments aimed at Arceus with Facade. Mega Salamence also helps to soften up the enemy team so that Arceus can clean up later on in the match. Yveltal is capable of taking advantage of Steel-type Pokemon, as well as help against most physical walls that Arceus struggles with such as Zygarde and both Giratina formes. It can also help against Marshadow and Mega Lucario if Yveltal uses a Choice Scarf set. Geomancy Xerneas can double up on the sweeping potential alongside Arceus while also helping against Yveltal, Salamence, and Marshadow, softening up Steel-types and Primal Groudon, and taking Fighting-type attacks aimed at Arceus if necessary. Dialga can make for a good partner, as it sets Stealth Rock and checks Mega Salamence and Giratina for Arceus. Entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-S, Excadrill, and Cloyster also make for good leads on an offensive team with Arceus, helping it secure KOs with the chip damage from Stealth Rock and Spikes.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    Life Orb can be used to maximize the power behind Arceus's attacks and also make alternate coverage options such as Fire Blast more effective, but this can leave Arceus vulnerable to Marshadow. Substitute can be used in order to avoid status and also set up on Celesteela, as it cannot break Arceus's Substitute in one hit. However, this set will have consistency issues against Marshadow and will lose the coverage of Earthquake to fit Substitute. Recover can keep Arceus healthy against bulky teams, but similarly to Substitute, it leads to Arceus lacking coverage options, which can make it easier to check. Refresh can be used to cure status and can be combined with Normalium Z to use Z-Refresh, a move that restores Arceus to full health while also curing status ailments. Arceus has trouble fitting the move and the respective item on its set, however. Magic Coat allows Arceus to be an effective anti-lead to teams utilizing dedicated entry hazard setters such as Smeargle, Deoxys-S, and Shuckle. Unfortunately, similar to the many other options Arceus has access to, it proves difficult to fit into Arceus's sets. Fire Blast hits would-be counters in Celesteela and Skarmory while also OHKOing Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it gives up valuable coverage on other Pokemon such as Mega Salamence and Zygarde-C that would then become better checks to Extreme Killer Arceus. Stone Edge can be used to bypass physically defensive Yveltal and Ho-Oh sets while also hitting Mega Salamence and Lugia for higher damage, but these targets can already be dealt with via other moves or Stealth Rock support. Shadow Force combined with Power Herb nets a surprise OHKO on Giratina-O, as well as Lugia after Stealth Rock damage. This takes up Arceus's vaulable item slot, however, and +2 Shadow Force comes short of OHKOing Giratina, making it a rather niche option. Natural Gift combined with a Kee Berry allows Arceus to use a 100-Base Power Fairy-type attack that able to OHKO Mega Sableye at +2. However, this is a very specific target and requires both the item slot and a moveslot to work, making it an option that is extremely hard to justify.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Celesteela and Skarmory**: Celesteela and Skarmory are very difficult for Arceus to break thanks to the combination of their Steel / Flying typing and recovery options. Skarmory also carries Whirlwind to prevent Arceus from boosting any further. However, both Pokemon are vulnerable to the rare Fire Blast, and Celesteela can also find itself being set up on if Arceus is using Substitute.

    **Marshadow**: Marshadow outspeeds Arceus, has an immunity to Extreme Speed, and deals high damage to Arceus with Close Combat. Chople Berry mitigates this weakness but only to a degree. If Arceus is running anything other than Chople Berry in the item slot, it risks being OHKOed by Marshadow.

    **Other Physical Walls**: Zygarde-C, Giratina, and Buzzwole all take Extreme Speed and most of Arceus's coverage options well enough to check Arceus via status moves, Dragon Tail, or other STAB attacks. Unaware Clefable typically runs enough Defense to avoid the Extreme Speed 2HKO from most variants of Arceus, allowing Clefable to stall it out. Lugia can take an attack and either phaze Arceus out or Toxic stall it.

    **Other Ghost-types**: Arceus-Ghost, Mega Gengar, and Mega Sableye can all use their Extreme Speed immunity to switch into Arceus. Mega Sableye can take any boosted attack from Arceus at least once and retaliate with Foul Play or Will-O-Wisp. Arceus-Ghost cannot OHKO Arceus even with boosted attacks, however.

    **Intimidate Users**: Mega Salamence is capable of utilizing Intimidate before Mega Evolving and its high Defense afterwards to reduce Arceus's damage against it while dealing heavy damage with STAB attacks; defensive sets can also use Dragon Tail to phaze Arceus out. Landorus-T can also use a similar strategy with Intimdate, getting damage onto Arceus and generally being a nuisance to take down. Both Landorus-T and Mega Salamence have to be wary of Ice Beam, however.

    **Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario is able to outspeed standard Extreme Killer Arceus and deal heavy damage with Close Combat, although a boosted Extreme Speed can still do over half of Mega Lucario's HP.

    **Yveltal**: Physically defensive Yveltal makes for an effective check to Extreme Killer Arceus, as it can take a boosted Extreme Speed even after Stealth Rock damage and retaliate with Foul Play.

    **Certain Steel-types**: Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor make for decent soft checks to Arceus, as they are capable of taking hits from most moves Arceus uses and potentially stall it out. Dialga and Arceus-Steel can also deal heavy damage to Arceus sets that lack Earthquake.

    **Rock-types**: Arceus-Rock Speed ties with Arceus at worst and threatens to burn it with Will-O-Wisp. Tyranitar is able to take attacks from Arceus sets that lack Earthquake and retaliate with STAB attacks or status.

    **Xerneas**: Both Geomancy and Z-Geomancy Xerneas sets are capable of surviving a boosted Extreme Speed and taking Arceus down. In a one-on-one situation, Xerneas can boost with Geomancy and KO Arceus first. Z-Geomancy sets take hits more easily and are also able to offensively check Arceus.
    Skeleton (open)

    [OVERVIEW]

    * Strong priority and the ability to sweep late game makes Extreme Killer Arceus a good fit to offensive teams, as it can pick off threatening sweepers such as Geomancy Xerneas and Rock Polish Primal Groudon.
    * Arceus's bulk and typing gives it many set up opportunities against many Ubers Pokemon, allowing it to set up Swords Dance in a game consistently.
    * The prevalence of Ghost-types in SM Ubers can work both ways for Arceus. It makes its immunity to Ghost-type moves useful, but it also doesn't appreciate more Pokemon in the metagame that can take advantage of their immunity to Extreme Speed.
    * The Extreme Killer set has many checks to contend with in Marshadow, Zygarde-C, Celesteela, and a more commonly seen Giratina. This can restrict its offensive abilities.
    * Checks such as Mega Gengar and Mega Lucario are now able to threaten Extreme Killer Arceus without the fear of being OHKOed first, thanks to their Speed buffs. Psychic Terrain also prevents Arceus from using its Extreme Speed as long as its active as well, making it difficult to pick off dangerous threats such as Deoxys-A and Geomancy Xerneas.

    [SET]
    name: Extreme Killer
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Extreme Speed
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Earthquake / Ice Beam
    item: Chople Berry
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    * Swords Dance boosts Arceus's attack to become the typical sweeping threat.
    * Extreme Speed is the standard STAB move for Arceus. It deals upwards of 40% to Geomancy Xerneas unboosted, allowing Arceus to be a good revenge killer if a teammate can knock it into range.
    * Shadow Claw offers great neutral coverage and a method to hit Ghost-types such as Marshadow, Lunala, and Giratina.
    * Earthquake grants coverage against Steel-types such as Mega Lucario and Dialga, while also hitting Pokemon such as Toxapex and Primal Groudon harder than Extreme Speed. Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Arceus-Rock are also targets of Earthquake.
    * Ice Beam is an alternative option that targets Zygarde-C and Mega Salamence, but falls short of the 2HKO and OHKO without Stealth Rock damage, respectively.

    Set Details
    ========

    * Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature gives Arceus the greatest damage output, something it requires due to not having a boosting item for its attacks.
    * 16 Speed EVs outspeeds neutral natured base 90 Speed Pokemon. Due to Extreme Speed's priority, Arceus can afford to make the trade of running less Speed in favor of HP.
    * The rest of the EVs are all poured into bulk, making excellent use of Arceus's bulk to take attacks and be much more difficult to take down.
    * An alternative Speed benchmark is 124 Speed EVs, outspeeding positive natured base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Jolly Ho-Oh. It also outspeeds Jolly Excadrill, and any Pokemon below base 100 Speed running a neutral nature.
    * Chople Berry is necessary to prevent Pokemon such as Marshadow and Mega Lucario from easily revenge killing Arceus. It also helps against Fighting-type coverage from Mega Gengar and Lunala.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    * Extreme Killer Arceus should be used as a late game cleaner once checks such as Celesteela, Zygarde-C, and Giratina are sufficiently dealt with.
    * The usage of Chople Berry means that Arceus doesn't have to fear Fighting-types such as Marshadow as greatly. Arceus being immune to Spectral Thief also means that Marshadow cannot realistically steal Arceus's Swords Dance boosts. However, Fighting-type attacks will still deal heavy damage regardless of the berry's damage reduction, so keep Arceus as healthy as possible to tank a Fighting-type attack.
    * Note that this set has little Speed investment. This can be a big issue against Mega Lucario and other faster threats resistant or immune to Extreme Speed such as Mega Gengar, as they can get a strong hit on Arceus first.
    * Extreme Killer Arceus can be used to revenge kill offensive threats to Arceus's team such as Geomancy Xerneas, Rock Polish Primal Groudon, and Deoxys-A if necessary.
    * Watch out for Psychic Terrain, as it stops Arceus from being able to use Extreme Speed against grounded threats, which could be detrimental to any potential sweeping or revenge killing.
    * Despite the bulk this set has, it is still vulnerable to status moves and the lack of recovery means that any damage on Arceus will stick. Try to keep Arceus in pristine condition.

    Team Options
    ========

    * This set best fits teams ranging from bulky offense to hyper offense.
    * Primal Groudon makes for a great partner, able to use a variety of sets to assist Arceus. Offensive sets can break down the enemy team allowing Arceus to clean up, while Stealth Rock sets can set the entry hazard to put more Pokemon into range of Extreme Speed over time. It can also take advantage of Tyranitar, and has the ability to force out Mega Lucario and Mega Gengar if given the ability to switch in safely.
    * Mega Gengar can fit both styles of team that Arceus does, using a set catered to taking down some of Arceus's checks such as Lugia and Skarmory.
    * Mega Salamence can put pressure on Celesteela and Primal Groudon for Arceus, and also take advantage of some status ailments aimed at Arceus with Facade. Mega Salamence helps to soften up the enemy team so Arceus can clean up later on in the match.
    * Yveltal is capable of taking advantage of Steel-type Pokemon as well as help against most physical walls that Arceus struggles with such as Zygarde and both Giratina formes. It can also help against Marshadow and Mega Lucario if using a Choice Scarf set.
    * Xerneas can double up on the sweeping potential alongside Arceus, while also helping against Yveltal, Salamence, and Marshadow. It can soften up Steel-types and Primal Groudon, and also take Fighting-type attacks aimed at Arceus if necessary.
    * Dialga can make for a good partner, as it sets Stealth Rock and checks Mega Salamence and Giratina for Arceus.
    * Entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-S, Excadrill, and Cloyster also make for good partners, helping Arceus secure KOs with the chip damage.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    * Life Orb can be used to add maximum power behind Arceus's attacks and also make alternate coverage options such as Fire Blast more effective, but this can leave Arceus vulnerable to Marshadow.
    * Substitute can be used on Arceus's set in order to avoid status and also break Celesteela, as it cannot break Arceus's sub in one hit. However, this has consistency issues against Marshadow, and loses the coverage of Earthquake to fit Substitute.
    * Recover can keep Arceus healthy against bulky teams, but lacks coverage options which can make it easier to check.
    * Refresh can be used to cure status, and can be combined with Normalium Z to use Z-Refresh, a move that restores Arceus to full while also curing status ailments. Arceus has trouble fitting the move and respective item on its set, however.
    * Magic Coat allows Arceus to be an effective anti-lead to teams utilizing dedicated entry hazard setters such as Smeargle, Deoxys-S, and Shuckle. It can be difficult to fit into Arceus's sets, however.
    * Fire Blast hits would-be counters in Celesteela and Skarmory, while also OHKOing Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, but gives up valuable coverage on other Pokemon that would then become better checks to Extreme Killer Arceus in their stead.
    * Stone Edge can be used to bypass physically defensive Yveltal and Ho-Oh, while also hitting Mega Salamence and Lugia for higher damage. These targets can already be dealt with via other moves or Stealth Rock support, however.
    * Shadow Force combined with Power Herb nets a surprise OHKO on Giratina-O, as well as Lugia after Stealth Rock damage. It comes with the large cost of Arceus's moves taking a hit to power overall, however, and +2 Shadow Force comes short of OHKOing Giratina, making it a niche option.
    * Natural Gift combined with a Kee Berry allows Arceus to use a 100 BP Fairy-type attack, able to OHKO Mega Sableye at +2. However, this is a very specific target, and requires both the item slot and a move slot to work, making it an option that is extremely hard to justify.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Celesteela and Skarmory**: Celesteela and Skarmory are very difficult for Arceus to break thanks to their typing, recovery options, Toxic, and Whirlwind, in Skarmory's case. Both Pokemon are vulnerable to the rare Fire Blast, however.

    **Marshadow**: Marshadow outspeeds Arceus, has an immunity to Extreme Speed, and deals high damage to Arceus with Close Combat. Chople Berry mitigates this weakness, but only to a degree. If Arceus is running anything other than Chople Berry in the item slot, it risks being OHKOed by Marshadow.

    **Other Physical Walls**: Zygarde-C, Giratina, and Buzzwole all take Extreme Speed and most of Arceus's coverage options well enough to check Arceus via status moves, Dragon Tail, or other STAB attacks. Unaware Clefable typically runs enough Defense to avoid the Extreme Speed 2HKO from most variants of Arceus, allowing Clefable stall it out. Lugia can take an attack and phaze Arceus out, or Toxic stall it.

    **Ghost-types**: Arceus-Ghost, Lunala, Mega Gengar, and Mega Sableye can all use their Extreme Speed immunity to switch into Arceus. Arceus-Ghost risks losing a Speed tie, and cannot OHKO Arceus even with boosted attacks. Mega Sableye can take any boosted attack from Arceus at least once and retaliate with Will-O-Wisp or Foul Play.

    **Intimidate Users**: Mega Salamence is capable of utilizing Intimidate before Mega evolution and its high Defense after to reduce Arceus's damage against it, and deal heavy damage with STAB attacks. Defensive sets can use Dragon Tail to phaze Arceus out. Landorus-T can also do a similar strategy to Mega Salamence with Intimdate, getting damage onto Arceus and generally being a nuisance to take down. Both Landorus-T and Mega Salamence have to be wary of Ice Beam, however.

    **Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario is able to outspeed the standard spread of Extreme Killer Arceus and OHKO with Close Combat. A boosted Extreme Speed can still do over half of Mega Lucario's HP, however.

    **Yveltal**: Physically defensive Yveltal makes for an effective check to Extreme Killer Arceus, as it can take a boosted Extreme Speed even after Stealth Rock damage, and retaliate with Foul Play.

    **Certain Steel-types**: Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor make for effective soft checks to Arceus, as they are capable of taking hits from most moves Arceus uses. Dialga and Arceus-Steel can also deal heavy damage to Arceus lacking Earthquake.

    **Rock-types**: Arceus-Rock Speed ties with Arceus at worst and threatens to burn it with Will-O-Wisp. Tyranitar is able to take attacks from Arceus lacking Earthquake and return damage with Foul Play or status options.

    **Xerneas**: Both Geomancy and Z-Geomancy Xerneas sets are capable of living a boosted Extreme Speed and taking Arceus down. In a 1v1 situation, Xerneas can boost with Geomancy and take down Arceus first. Z-Geomancy sets take hits much easier and are also able to offensively check Arceus.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017 at 10:55 PM
  2. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    i think we are qc ready here.
  3. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Ubers Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,176
    QC 1/3
    Nayrz likes this.
  4. Minority

    Minority Numquam Vincar
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,395
    Overview is good.

    Explanation as to why bulky is the first set? Seems like the "definitive" set is constantly changing due to trends or w/e. Is there a really solid argument as to why this is the first set and why it will continue to be the most used set for time to come?

    Team options are kinda lame, especially for bulky set. Only a few mentions here and Scarf Luna is one of them.


    Add Mega Mence to C&C. It falls to Ice Beam, but it can still impede EKiller / get the job done. Certainly a better check than Lucario.

    Add Lugia, Mega Slowbro, and phys def Clefable to physical walls.

    Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, and Lando-T are all soft checks. I'd consider creating a "certain steel-types" section.

    Geo Xern, especially Z Geo, are offensive checks.


    [​IMG]
    QC: 2/3
    Nayrz likes this.
  5. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    I implemented the QC - I bunched Salamence + Landorus into an Intimidate section and added the rest.

    I'm going to hold off on writing this and instead give it another do over in the near future due to how Marshadow's influence affects this analysis. I put a couple of obvious statements in already but this analysis won't stand against time without proper implementation of Marshadow's influence. If that means waiting a little while in order to do so accurately, then so be it. It would be a waste of time and effort to have this finished as if Marshadow didn't exist and then have to revamp it in like a month.
  6. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    This has had a substantial revamp to better suit the Marshadow metagame. "Offensive Extreme Killer" (Jolly LO) has been removed, all parts of it are featured in OO. The bulky set has been revamped, with all the previous item slots relegated to OO as well. All relevant sections have had a brush up to better accomodate the Marshadow meta. I think the best option is to restart the QC process on this to ensure its properly QC'd... so we're back at 0/3 it seems.
  7. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Ubers Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,176
    already went over this on Discord, QC 1/3
    Nayrz likes this.
  8. Minority

    Minority Numquam Vincar
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,395
    I have some doubts as to if Chople will remain the only viable set for the rest of SM. Analysis itself looks pretty good.

    [​IMG]
    QC: 2/3
    Nayrz likes this.
  9. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    this is fully written up - should be ready for the 3rd check
  10. Dominatio

    Dominatio
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    903
    looks good

    [​IMG]
    Nayrz likes this.
  11. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    GP ready
  12. Mr. Uncompetitive

    Mr. Uncompetitive Every Day is Night in Neo Kobe City
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    572
    GP 1/2
    [​IMG]
    Additions, (AC) = add comma
    Removals, (RC) = remove comma
    Comments


    wallceus is irrelevant ONCE AGAIN BABYYYYY (open)

    [OVERVIEW]

    Arceus's strong priority and ability to sweep late game late-game thanks to its strong priority move in Extreme Speed (this should fix this sentence's grammar issues, make it less awkward, and improve its clarity) makes it a good fit to offensive teams, as it can pick off threatening sweepers to the playstyle such as Geomancy Xerneas and Rock Polish Primal Groudon. Arceus's bulk and typing give it set up setup opportunities against many Pokemon in Ubers, allowing it to set up Swords Dance in a game consistently. The prevalence of Ghost-types in SM Ubers can work both ways for Arceus, however; it makes its immunity to Ghost-type moves more useful, but it also doesn't appreciate there being more Pokemon in the metagame that can take advantage of their immunity are immune to Extreme Speed. (felt awkward so I condensed it a bit) This, (AC) combined with the fact that the Extreme Killer set has many checks to contend with in Marshadow, Zygarde-C, Celesteela, and a more commonly seen Giratina, means that its offensive abilities can be a little restricted. Some checks such as Mega Gengar and Mega Lucario are also able to threaten Extreme Killer Arceus without the fear of being OHKOed first as well (repetitive with "also"). Psychic Terrain also prevents Arceus from using its Extreme Speed as long as its active as well, making it difficult to pick off dangerous threats such as Deoxys-A and Geomancy Xerneas. All of this combined can make Arceus a little more difficult to work with, but it certainly has the tools to maintain its presence as a strong sweeper in Ubers. (this sentence feels like fluff, namely in that, like other "overview closing sentences", it doesn't really add anything content-wise)

    [SET]
    name: Extreme Killer
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Extreme Speed
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Earthquake / Ice Beam
    item: Chople Berry
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    Swords Dance and Extreme Speed are staples for Extreme Killer Arceus. Extreme Speed deals upwards of 40% to Geomancy Xerneas unboosted, allowing Arceus to be a good revenge killer to it if a teammate such as offensive Primal Groudon can knock it into that range. When boosted by Swords Dance, Arceus is able to clean weakened teams without any retaliation thanks to Extreme Speed's priority. Shadow Claw offers great neutral coverage when combined with Extreme Speed, and gives giving Arceus the ability to hit Ghost-types such as Marshadow, Lunala, and Giratina-O. Earthquake grants coverage against Steel-types such as Mega Lucario and Dialga, (RC) while also hitting Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Arceus-Rock as well as other (condenses things a bit and imo makes it flow better) Pokemon such as Toxapex and Primal Groudon harder than Extreme Speed. Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Arceus-Rock are also targets of Earthquake. Ice Beam is an alternative option to Earthquake that targets Zygarde-C and Mega Salamence, but it requires chip damage (maybe add an adjective describing how much chip damage?) to 2HKO a full HP Zygarde-C, (RC) and also requires Steath Stealth Rock damage to OHKO Mega Salamence.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature gives Arceus the greatest damage output, something it requires due to not having any boosting item behind its attacks. 16 Speed EVs outspeeds let Arceus outspeed neutral natured base 90 Speed Pokemon, such as Adamant Primal Groudon. Due to Extreme Speed's priority, Arceus can afford to make the trade of running less Speed in favor of HP. The rest of the EVs are all poured into bulk, making excellent use of Arceus's stats to take attacks and (feels a bit repetitive with the next statement...) be more difficult to take down. An alternative Speed benchmark is 124 Speed EVs, outspeeding positive natured base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Jolly Ho-Oh. It also outspeeds Jolly Excadrill, (RC) and any Pokemon below base 100 Speed running a neutral nature. Chople Berry is a necessary evil to prevent Pokemon such as Marshadow and Mega Lucario from easily revenge killing Arceus. It also helps against Fighting-type coverage from Mega Gengar and Lunala.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Extreme Killer Arceus should be used as a late game late-game cleaner once checks such as Celesteela, Zygarde-C, and Giratina are sufficiently dealt with. The usage of Chople Berry means that Arceus doesn't have to fear Fighting-types such as Marshadow as greatly. Arceus being immune to Spectral Thief also means that Marshadow cannot realistically steal Arceus's Swords Dance boosts. However, Fighting-type attacks will still deal heavy damage regardless of the berry's Chople Berry's damage reduction, so keep Arceus as healthy as possible in order to tank a Fighting-type attack. Keep in mind that this set has little Speed investment, as this which can become an issue when facing Mega Lucario and other faster threats resistant or immune to Extreme Speed such as Mega Gengar, as they can get a strong hit on Arceus first, (RC) (reducing comma usage in this sentence) and potentially taking take it down. Extreme Killer Arceus can be used to revenge kill offensive threats to Arceus's its team such as Geomancy Xerneas, Rock Polish Primal Groudon, and Deoxys-A if necessary. Be aware of Psychic Terrain, as it stops Arceus from being able to use Extreme Speed against grounded threats, which could be detrimental to Arceus's ability to sweep or revenge kill threats. Despite the bulk this set has, it is still vulnerable to status moves, (AC) and the lack of recovery means that any damage on Arceus will stick. Try to keep Arceus in pristine condition in preparation for a late game late-game sweep.

    Team Options
    ========

    This set best fits teams ranging from bulky offense to hyper offense. Primal Groudon makes for a great partner, as it is able to use a variety of sets to assist Arceus. Offensive sets can break down the enemy team, (AC) allowing Arceus to clean up, while Stealth Rock sets can set the entry hazard to put more Pokemon into range of Extreme Speed or other coverage options prior to the late game late-game. Primal Groudon can also take advantage of Tyranitar, (RC) and has the ability to force out Mega Lucario and Mega Gengar if given the ability to switch in safely. Mega Gengar can fit similar styles of teams that Arceus can, (RC) and can use a set catered to taking down some of Arceus's checks such as Lugia and Skarmory if so desired. Mega Salamence can put pressure on Celesteela and Primal Groudon for Arceus, (RC) and also take advantage of some status ailments aimed at Arceus with Facade. Mega Salamence also helps to soften up the enemy team so that Arceus can clean up later on in the match. Yveltal is capable of taking advantage of Steel-type Pokemon, as well as help against most physical walls that Arceus struggles with such as Zygarde and both Giratina formes. It can also help against Marshadow and Mega Lucario if Yveltal uses a Choice Scarf set. Geomancy Xerneas can double up on the sweeping potential alongside Arceus, (RC) while also helping against Yveltal, Salamence, and Marshadow. (remove period) , (AC) It can soften softening up Steel-types and Primal Groudon, and also take taking Fighting-type attacks aimed at Arceus if necessary. Dialga can make for a good partner, as it sets Stealth Rock and checks Mega Salamence and Giratina for Arceus. Entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-S, Excadrill, and Cloyster also make for good leads to on an offensive team with Arceus, helping it secure KOs with the chip damage from Stealth Rock.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============
    (In both OO and C&C you were using "... , however." in a lot of sentences. I tried to vary this up throughout)

    Life Orb can be used to add maximum maximize the power behind Arceus's attacks and also make alternate coverage options such as Fire Blast more effective, but this can leave Arceus vulnerable to Marshadow. Substitute can be used on Arceus's set in order to avoid status and also set up on Celesteela, as it cannot break Arceus's sub in one hit. However, this has the set will have consistency issues against Marshadow, (RC) and loses will lose the coverage of Earthquake to fit Substitute. Recover can keep Arceus healthy against bulky teams, but similarly to Substitute, it leads to Arceus lacking coverage options, (AC) which can make it easier to check. Refresh can be used to cure status, (RC) and can be combined with Normalium Z to use Z-Refresh, a move that restores Arceus to full health while also curing status ailments. Arceus has trouble fitting the move and respective item on its set, however. Magic Coat allows Arceus to be an effective anti-lead to teams utilizing dedicated entry hazard setters such as Smeargle, Deoxys-S, and Shuckle. Similar Unfortunately, similar to the many other options Arceus has access to, it proves difficult to fit into Arceus's sets, (RC) however. Fire Blast hits would-be counters in Celesteela and Skarmory, (RC) while also OHKOing Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it gives up valuable coverage on other Pokemon such as Mega Salamence and Zygarde-C that would then become better checks to Extreme Killer Arceus. Stone Edge can be used to bypass physically defensive Yveltal and Ho-Oh sets, (RC) while also hitting Mega Salamence and Lugia for higher damage. (remove period) , (AC) but These these targets can already be dealt with via other moves or Stealth Rock support, (RC) however. Shadow Force combined with Power Herb nets a surprise OHKO on Giratina-O, as well as Lugia after Stealth Rock damage. This takes up Arceus's vaulable item slot, (RC) however, and a +2 Shadow Force comes short of OHKOing Giratina, making it a rather niche option. Natural Gift combined with a Kee Berry allows Arceus to use a 100 BP Fairy-type attack, which is able to OHKO Mega Sableye at +2. However, this is a very specific target, and requires both the item slot and a move slot moveslot to work, making it an option that is extremely hard to justify.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Celesteela and Skarmory**: Celesteela and Skarmory are very difficult for Arceus to break thanks to the combination of their Steel / Flying typing and recovery options. Skarmory also carries Whirlwind to prevent Arceus from boosting any further. Both However, both Pokemon are vulnerable to the rare Fire Blast, however. (remove period) and Celesteela can also find itself being set up on if Arceus is using Substitute on its set.

    **Marshadow**: Marshadow outspeeds Arceus, has an immunity to Extreme Speed, and deals high damage to Arceus with Close Combat. Chople Berry mitigates this weakness, but only to a degree. If Arceus is running anything other than Chople Berry in the item slot, it risks being OHKOed by Marshadow.

    **Other Physical Walls**: Zygarde-C, Giratina, and Buzzwole all take Extreme Speed and most of Arceus's coverage options well enough to check Arceus via status moves, Dragon Tail, or other STAB attacks. Unaware Clefable typically runs enough Defense to avoid the Extreme Speed 2HKO from most variants of Arceus, allowing Clefable to stall it out. Lugia can take an attack and either phaze Arceus out, (RC) or Toxic stall it.

    **Other Ghost-types**: Arceus-Ghost, Mega Gengar, and Mega Sableye can all use their Extreme Speed immunity to switch into Arceus. Mega Sableye can take any boosted attack from Arceus at least once and retaliate with Foul Play or Will-O-Wisp. Arceus-Ghost cannot OHKO Arceus even with boosted attacks, however.

    **Intimidate Users**: Mega Salamence is capable of utilizing Intimidate before Mega Evolution Evolving and its high Defense afterwards to reduce Arceus's damage against it, (RC) and deal while dealing heavy damage with STAB attacks. (remove period) ; (add semicolon) Defensive defensive sets can also use Dragon Tail to phaze Arceus out. Landorus-T can also do use a similar strategy to Mega Salamence with Intimdate, getting damage onto Arceus and generally being a nuisance to take down. Both Landorus-T and Mega Salamence have to be wary of Ice Beam, however.

    **Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario is able to outspeed the standard spread of Extreme Killer Arceus and OHKO with Close Combat. (remove period) , (AC) although A a boosted Extreme Speed can still do over half of Mega Lucario's HP, (RC) however.

    **Yveltal**: Physically defensive Yveltal makes for an effective check to Extreme Killer Arceus, as it can take a boosted Extreme Speed even after Stealth Rock damage, (RC) and retaliate with Foul Play.

    **Certain Steel-types**: Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor make for effective soft decent checks (an "effective soft check" sounds a bit contradictory...perhaps "decent" is a better adjective for this?) to Arceus, as they are capable of taking hits from most moves Arceus uses and potentially stall it out. Dialga and Arceus-Steel can also deal heavy damage to Arceus sets that lack Earthquake.

    **Rock-types**: Arceus-Rock Speed ties with Arceus at worst and threatens to burn it with Will-O-Wisp. Tyranitar is able to take attacks from Arceus sets that lack Earthquake and return damage retaliate (less awkward word choice) with STAB attacks or status options.

    **Xerneas**: Both Geomancy and Z-Geomancy Xerneas sets are capable of living surviving a boosted Extreme Speed and taking Arceus down. In a 1v1 situation, Xerneas can boost with Geomancy and KO Arceus first. Z-Geomancy sets take hits much easier more easily and are also able to offensively check Arceus.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    Haund, Nayrz and CKW like this.
  13. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    yea when i was proofreading i noticed the numerous "howevers" and wondered if that was an analysis curse because even a thesaurus didnt help me. i did take note of how you handled it to (hopefully) memorize for the future

    cheers for the check, this should be ready for the second

    ps: i approve of the va-11 hall-a avatar
    Mr. Uncompetitive likes this.
  14. Fireflame479

    Fireflame479 I find that answer vague and unconvincing...
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Messages:
    550
    Remove Add Comments (AC)= add comma (RC)= remove comma (AH)= add hyphen (RH)= remove hyphen
    Show Hide
    [OVERVIEW]

    Arceus's ability to sweep late-game thanks to its strong priority move in Extreme Speed makes it a good fit to on offensive teams, as it can pick off threatening sweepers to the playstyle such as Geomancy Xerneas and Rock Polish Primal Groudon. Arceus's bulk and typing give it set up opportunities against many Pokemon in Ubers, allowing it to setup set up (setup = noun and adjective; set up = verb) Swords Dance in a game consistently. The prevalence of Ghost-types in SM (Analysis will be under "SM" anyway) Ubers can work both ways for Arceus, however; it makes its immunity to Ghost-type moves more useful, but it also doesn't appreciate there being more Pokemon in the metagame that are immune to Extreme Speed. This, combined with the fact that the Extreme Killer set has many checks to contend with in Marshadow, Zygarde-C, Celesteela, and a more commonly seen Giratina, means that its offensive abilities can be a little restricted. Some checks such as Mega Gengar and Mega Lucario are also able to threaten Extreme Killer Arceus without the fear of being OHKOed first. Psychic Terrain prevents Arceus from using its Extreme Speed as long as its it is active as well, making it difficult to pick off dangerous threats such as Deoxys-A and Geomancy Xerneas. (I'm surprised something along the lines of how Arceus isn't required to use a plate and can therefore run other items isn't in the overview. Seems like a good advantage over other offensive Arceus formes. But you're the QC member so make of this what you will)

    [SET]
    name: Extreme Killer
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Extreme Speed
    move 3: Shadow Claw
    move 4: Earthquake / Ice Beam
    item: Chople Berry
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    Swords Dance and Extreme Speed are staples for Extreme Killer Arceus. Extreme Speed deals upwards of 40% to Geomancy Xerneas unboosted, allowing Arceus to be a good revenge killer to it if a teammate such as offensive Primal Groudon can knock it into that range. When boosted by Swords Dance, Arceus is able to clean weakened teams without any retaliation thanks to Extreme Speed's priority. Shadow Claw offers great neutral coverage when combined with Extreme Speed, giving Arceus the ability to hit Ghost-types such as Marshadow, Lunala, and Giratina-O. Earthquake grants coverage against Steel-types such as Mega Lucario and Dialga while also hitting Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Arceus-Rock as well as other Pokemon such as like (there was a lot of "such as" in this sentence) Toxapex and Primal Groudon harder than Extreme Speed. Ice Beam is an alternative option to Earthquake that targets Zygarde-C and Mega Salamence, but it requires a small amount of chip damage to 2HKO Zygarde-C and also requires Stealth Rock damage to OHKO Mega Salamence.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature gives Arceus the greatest damage output, something it requires due to not having any boosting item behind its attacks. 16 Speed EVs lets let Arceus outspeed neutral-(AH)natured base 90 Speed Pokemon, such as Adamant Primal Groudon. Due to Extreme Speed's priority, Arceus can afford to make the trade of running less Speed in favor of HP,(AC) and as such,(AC).(period) the rest of the EVs are all poured into bulk, making excellent use of Arceus's stats to be more difficult to take down. An alternative Speed benchmark is 124 Speed EVs, outspeeding positive-(AH)natured base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Jolly Ho-Oh. It also outspeeds Jolly Excadrill and any Pokemon below base 100 Speed running a neutral nature. Chople Berry is a necessary evil to prevent Pokemon such as Marshadow and Mega Lucario from easily revenge killing Arceus. It also helps against Fighting-type coverage from Mega Gengar and Lunala.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Extreme Killer Arceus should be used as a late-game cleaner once checks such as Celesteela, Zygarde-C, and Giratina are sufficiently dealt with. The usage of Chople Berry means that Arceus doesn't have to fear Fighting-types such as Marshadow as greatly. Arceus being immune to Spectral Thief also means that Marshadow cannot realistically steal Arceus's Swords Dance boosts. However, Fighting-type attacks will still deal heavy damage regardless of the Chople Berry's damage reduction, so keep Arceus as healthy as possible in order to tank a Fighting-type attack. Keep in mind that this set has little Speed investment, which can become an issue when facing Mega Lucario and other faster threats resistant or immune to Extreme Speed such as Mega Gengar,(AC) (if "as" or "since" is used to mean "because", a comma must precede it) as they can get a strong hit on Arceus first and potentially take it down. Extreme Killer Arceus can be used to revenge kill offensive threats to its team such as Geomancy Xerneas, Rock Polish Primal Groudon, and Deoxys-A if necessary. Be aware of Psychic Terrain, as it stops Arceus from being able to use Extreme Speed against grounded Pokemon, which could be detrimental to Arceus's ability to sweep or revenge kill threats. Despite the bulk this set has, it is still vulnerable to status moves, and the lack of recovery means that any damage on Arceus will stick stay. Try to keep Arceus in pristine condition in preparation for a late-game sweep.

    Team Options
    ========

    This set best fits teams ranging from bulky offense to hyper offense. Primal Groudon makes for a great partner, as it is able to use a variety of sets to assist Arceus. Offensive sets can break down the enemy team, allowing Arceus to clean up, while Stealth Rock sets can set the entry hazard to put more Pokemon into range of Extreme Speed or other coverage options prior to the late-game. Primal Groudon can also take advantage of Tyranitar and has the ability to force out Mega Lucario and Mega Gengar if given the ability to switch in safely. Mega Gengar can fit on similar styles of teams that Arceus can and can use a set catered to taking down some of Arceus's checks such as Lugia and Skarmory if so desired. Mega Salamence can put pressure on Celesteela and Primal Groudon for Arceus and also take advantage of some status ailments aimed at Arceus with Facade. Mega Salamence also helps to soften up the enemy team so that Arceus can clean up later on in the match. Yveltal is capable of taking advantage of Steel-type Pokemon, as well as help against most physical walls that Arceus struggles with such as Zygarde and both Giratina formes. It can also help against Marshadow and Mega Lucario if Yveltal uses a Choice Scarf set. Geomancy Xerneas can double up on the sweeping potential alongside Arceus while also helping against Yveltal, Salamence, and Marshadow, softening up Steel-types and Primal Groudon, and taking Fighting-type attacks aimed at Arceus if necessary. Dialga can make for a good partner, as it sets Stealth Rock and checks Mega Salamence and Giratina for Arceus. Entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-S, Excadrill, and Cloyster also make for good leads on an offensive team with Arceus, helping it secure KOs with the chip damage from Stealth Rock and Spikes.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    Life Orb can be used to maximize the power behind Arceus's attacks and also make alternate coverage options such as Fire Blast more effective, but this can leave Arceus vulnerable to Marshadow. Substitute can be used on Arceus's set in order to avoid status and also set up on Celesteela, as it cannot break Arceus's sub Substitute in one hit. However, this set will have consistency issues against Marshadow and will lose the coverage of Earthquake to fit Substitute. Recover can keep Arceus healthy against bulky teams, but similarly to Substitute, it leads to Arceus lacking coverage options, which can make it easier to check. Refresh can be used to cure status and can be combined with Normalium Z to use Z-Refresh, a move that restores Arceus to full health while also curing status ailments. Arceus has trouble fitting the move and the respective item on its set, however. Magic Coat allows Arceus to be an effective anti-lead to teams utilizing dedicated entry hazard setters such as Smeargle, Deoxys-S, and Shuckle. Unfortunately, similar to the many other options Arceus has access to, it proves difficult to fit into Arceus's sets. Fire Blast hits would-be counters in Celesteela and Skarmory while also OHKOing Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it gives up valuable coverage on other Pokemon such as Mega Salamence and Zygarde-C that would then become better checks to Extreme Killer Arceus. Stone Edge can be used to bypass physically defensive Yveltal and Ho-Oh sets while also hitting Mega Salamence and Lugia for higher damage, but these targets can already be dealt with via other moves or Stealth Rock support..(period) (remove extra period) Shadow Force combined with Power Herb nets a surprise OHKO on Giratina-O, as well as Lugia after Stealth Rock damage. This takes up Arceus's vaulable item slot,(AC) however, and a +2 Shadow Force comes short of OHKOing Giratina, making it a rather niche option. Natural Gift combined with a Kee Berry allows Arceus to use a 100 BP 100-(AH)Base Power Fairy-type attack,(RC) which that is able to OHKO Mega Sableye at +2. However, this is a very specific target,(RC) and requires both the item slot and a moveslot to work, making it an option that is extremely hard to justify.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Celesteela and Skarmory**: Celesteela and Skarmory are very difficult for Arceus to break thanks to the combination of their Steel / Flying typing and recovery options. Skarmory also carries Whirlwind to prevent Arceus from boosting any further. However, both Pokemon are vulnerable to the rare Fire Blast, and Celesteela can also find itself being set up on if Arceus is using Substitute on its set.

    **Marshadow**: Marshadow outspeeds Arceus, has an immunity to Extreme Speed, and deals high damage to Arceus with Close Combat. Chople Berry mitigates this weakness,(RC) but only to a degree. If Arceus is running anything other than Chople Berry in the item slot, it risks being OHKOed by Marshadow.

    **Other Physical Walls**: Zygarde-C, Giratina, and Buzzwole all take Extreme Speed and most of Arceus's coverage options well enough to check Arceus via status moves, Dragon Tail, or other STAB attacks. Unaware Clefable typically runs enough Defense to avoid the Extreme Speed 2HKO from most variants of Arceus, allowing Clefable to stall it out. Lugia can take an attack and either phaze Arceus out or Toxic stall it.

    **Other Ghost-types**: Arceus-Ghost, Mega Gengar, and Mega Sableye can all use their Extreme Speed immunity to switch into Arceus. Mega Sableye can take any boosted attack from Arceus at least once and retaliate with Foul Play or Will-O-Wisp. Arceus-Ghost cannot OHKO Arceus even with boosted attacks, however.

    **Intimidate Users**: Mega Salamence is capable of utilizing Intimidate before Mega Evolving and its high Defense afterwards to reduce Arceus's damage against it while dealing heavy damage with STAB attacks; defensive sets can also use Dragon Tail to phaze Arceus out. Landorus-T can also use a similar strategy to Mega Salamence with Intimdate, getting damage onto Arceus and generally being a nuisance to take down. Both Landorus-T and Mega Salamence have to be wary of Ice Beam, however.

    **Mega Lucario**: Mega Lucario is able to outspeed the standard spread of Extreme Killer Arceus and deal heavy damage with Close Combat, although a boosted Extreme Speed can still do over half of Mega Lucario's HP.

    **Yveltal**: Physically defensive Yveltal makes for an effective check to Extreme Killer Arceus, as it can take a boosted Extreme Speed even after Stealth Rock damage and retaliate with Foul Play.

    **Certain Steel-types**: Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor make for decent soft checks to Arceus, as they are capable of taking hits from most moves Arceus uses and potentially stall it out. Dialga and Arceus-Steel can also deal heavy damage to Arceus sets that lack Earthquake.

    **Rock-types**: Arceus-Rock Speed ties with Arceus at worst and threatens to burn it with Will-O-Wisp. Tyranitar is able to take attacks from Arceus sets that lack Earthquake and retaliate with STAB attacks or status options.

    **Xerneas**: Both Geomancy and Z-Geomancy Xerneas sets are capable of surviving a boosted Extreme Speed and taking Arceus down. In a 1v1 one-on-one situation, Xerneas can boost with Geomancy and KO Arceus first. Z-Geomancy sets take hits more easily and are also able to offensively check Arceus.
    GP 2/2
    [​IMG]

    Just to help out a little on the use of "however":
    • If using "however" in the beginning of the sentence, "but" can be used as a direct synonym to avoid repetition ("However, xyz..." = "But, xyz...")
    • If using "however" in the end of the sentence, "though" can be used ("...xyz, however." = "...xyz, though.")
    • "Though" and "although" can be used in the middle the same way "however" can be used in beginning (or end) ("Yveltal checks Arceus, though/although it is hit by Stone Edge" = "Yeltal checks Arceus. However, it is hit by Stone Edge").
    • "Though" and "although" can also be used in the beginning ("Though/although Yveltal checks Arceus, it is hit by Stone Edge = "Yveltal checks Arceus. However, it is hit by Stone Edge)
    • "Though" can be used in this fashion also: ("Lunala is not good against X, however, because Y"= "Lunala is not good against X, though, because Y")
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017 at 9:17 AM
    Nayrz and Stevan's Sceptile like this.
  15. Nayrz

    Nayrz
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,325
    thanks for the tips and check - i'll keep these in mind.

    this is finished and uploaded!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)