Arceus-Psychic [GP 0/2]

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Arceus-Psychic


Original pink, screw you Arceus-Fairy

PISTOLERO is bad

Overview
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Even though all formes of Arceus have great stats and movepool, Arceus-Psychic seems at first to suffer from a poor defensive and offensive typing. Its weaknesses to Dark, Ghost and to a lesser extent Bug cause it several issues, with new arrival Yveltal in particular causing Arceus-Psychic many problems. Other tier members such as Arceus-Ghost and Darkrai are still huge threats and tend to be able to walk all over Arceus-Psychic as well. Arceus-Psychic also suffers from 4MSS to quite a degree, due to it wanting to be able to adequately deal with all Mewtwo formes but also provide typical Arceus utility to its team.However, Arceus-Psychic has several positive traits that help it distinguish itself amongst its fellow formes, and grant it three very appreciable niches and a third nice niche. Most importantly of all, Arceus-Psychic is the only Pokemon in the entire game that is able to efficiently deal with all Mewtwo formes, be it the X Mega, Y Mega, Classic Mewtwo, Stalltwo or Stalltwo X/Y (not sure how relevant mega stalltwo is, i know that Hack hates stalltwo X and thinks it's garbage), being able to come in on any move from Mewtwo first turn, even without knowing the Mega Evolution, and be safe the next turn, due to its oft maligned Psychic typing giving it a resistance to both Psystrike and Low Kick. Deoxys-Attack is also countered by Arceus-Psychic, with the only move even slightly threatening a 2HKO being max Special Attack Life Orb Dark Pulse, with the more common Sash variants cannot even threaten a 3HKO with Knock Off, due to its power not being boosted. The final niche Arceus-Psychic has is STAB Psyshock, allowing it to run a competent Calm Mind set that can break other Calm Mind Arceus, as well as giving it an easier time against Ho-Oh and Blissey.

1. Utility Check
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name: Mewtwo Utility Check
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Magic Coat / Defog
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
evs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Judgment is used as STAB, allowing for fair neutral damage thanks to the Plate boost, and importantly allows Arceus-Psychic to 2HKO Mega Mewtwo X. Will-O-Wisp is used to burn physical attackers, meaning that Arceus-Psychic can check things such as Zekrom, Arceus-Normal and Groudon. Magic Coat bounces status, hazards and Taunt, protecting Arceus-Psychic and its team from all three. Defog can be useful on any Arceus forme, and Arceus-Psychic is no exception. Lastly, Recover is to keep Arceus-Psychic at high health so that it can repeatedly come in on Mewtwo and Deoxys-Attack.

Set Details
========

This Arceus-Psychic variant focuses less on completely countering all Mewtwo variants in order to provide more Arceus-esque team support, whilst still competently checking Mewtwo, as well as Deoxys-Attack and other tier members. 96 Speed EVs and a Timid nature allow Arceus-Psychic to outspeed Palkia, a good benchmark for support Arceus to hit, whilst max HP investment and 164 Defense EVs allow Arceus to sponge Psystrikes and Low Kicks in particular from Mewtwo formes, as well as better taking on Arceus-Normal; for example, Arceus-Psychic can survive a +2 Life Orb Shadow Claw after Stealth Rock and burn it. Will-O-Wisp is very helpful to spread residual damage, and ruins things that Arceus-Psychic can otherwise have a hard time against; Scarf Genesect is ruined if it switches into Will-O-Wisp, as is Scizor or its Mega Evolution; Yveltal intensely dislikes Will-O-Wisp due to the huge residual damage alongside Life Orb and Stealth Rock, and also has its Sucker Punch and Foul Play crippled; it also ruins a plethora of other Pokemon, such as Groudon, Landorus-Therian, Zekrom and Mega Mewtwo X. Judgment allows Arceus-Psychic to 2HKO Mega Mewtwo X with a little prior damage, has a higher than 80% chance to OHKO neutral-natured Deoxys-Attack (rofl), deals fair damage to neutral targets such as Palkia and Zekrom, and can also hit opponents such as Arceus-Poison, Terrakion and Amoonguss supereffectively, rare as they are. Magic Coat is useful for bouncing back hazards from the likes of Deoxys-Speed and Klefki, as well as shielding Arceus-Psychic from Toxic and other status, and Taunt from Mewtwo (allowing it to beat Mewtwo with Will-O-Wisp if played well). Defog is also a standard move on many support Arceus, and Arceus-Psychic can use it competently. However, bear in mind that using Defog can allow dangerous opposing Pokemon to switch in for free. Lastly, Recover helps keep Arceus-Psychic at a high amount of HP and means that it can do its job better.

The choice between the three moves slashed depends on the team structure; generally, Will-O-Wisp is the best choice alongside Magic Coat or Defog. However, each combination of moves has its own advantages. Will-O-Wisp + Defog allows Arceus-Psychic to take on a more traditional support Arceus role, burning opposing threats and clearing hazards. Will-O-Wisp + Magic Coat works best against Mewtwo, beating all variants with good prediction, whilst also retaining the ability to check physical attackers and spread burns. Finally, Magic Coat + Defog, whilst generally not as useful as the other two combinations, allows for an interesting situation - a common way of stopping Defog Arceus from clearing hazards is through Taunt, be it from Prankster users or Mewtwo, and by using Magic Coat at the right time, it is possible for Arceus-Psychic to Defog away hazards at crucial points during a match thanks to its ability to ambush Taunt users with Magic Coat (think about something like this: Gothitelle can Taunt support Arceus to stop them defogging away Sticky Web, but gets ambushed by Arceus-Psychic, no more Sticky Web, RIP Gothitelle’s slowass team).

Usage Tips
========

This variant of Arceus-Psychic should still be switched into Mewtwo liberally, even before it has been revealed what kind of Mewtwo it is, due to its ability to take on all three formes and any variant of the three reasonably well, provided it does not get Taunted on the switchin. It can easily eat up Psystrikes, Fire Blasts, Ice Beams, Low Kicks and other moves, and can threaten to bounce Mewtwo’s Taunt and/or burn it, or straight out attack it if it is Mega Mewtwo X. If it is revealed that the Mewtwo is a Stalltwo variant, however, it is recommended to be careful not to switch in Arceus-Psychic on a Taunt or a Will-O-Wisp, due to it no longer being able to Recover, bounce back Will-O-Wisp or Taunt, or have it take a lot of residual damage each turn, hampering its walling ability.

Arceus-Psychic should also be switched into Deoxys-Attack (and, as mentioned, can even antilead it), due to its ability to sponge even Life Orb Psycho Boost easily, as well as not being threatened by a 2HKO from any other move Deoxys-Attack carries; only 252 Atk Life Orb Knock Off and 252 SpAtk Life Orb Dark Pulse have a chance of 2HKOing, and require suboptimal moveslots and/or EV spreads anyway; Deoxys-Attack is easily OHKOed by Judgment if it is running Naive, and is OHKOed >80% of the time if it is Hasty anyway.

Use Magic Coat smartly. Don't spam Magic Coat all the time as it gives free switches however. Using it to ambush Klefki, Toxic Palkia, SR Groudon, and Taunt Mewtwo (who will almost certainly try to Taunt to stop you statusing it) means that Arceus can protect itself from status and keep hazards away. Using it at the correct time is also important, as revealing it early on can lead to the opponent being more careful with their Klefki/Toxic spreading/etc. The same goes for Defog - sometimes it is better to throw out a Will-O-Wisp to cripple something such as Scarf Genesect that switches in expecting a Will-O-Wisp. Using Recover at the right time is also a good plan. Interestingly, with a combination of Magic Coat and Will-O-Wisp / Defog, a well-played Arceus-Psychic can actually stop Dialga from setting up Stealth Rock due to Magic Coat protecting it from Dialga’s Toxic. However, bear in mind that Arceus-Psychic has to watch out for Toxic on the switchin, as well as Stealth Rock already being set up before it comes in / as it comes in.

Due to the full HP investment, Arceus-Psychic also does reasonably well against Mega Blaziken due to resisting Low Kick, and therefore being able to switch in on it and easily OHKO Mega Blaziken with Judgment, with Knock Off not receiving a boost due to the Plate being unremovable. Swords Dance on the switchin can prove problematic, but if also using Kyogre, it is possible to switch around smartly so that Arceus-Psychic can easily take on even +2 Mega Blaziken thanks to the rain (e.g. Kyogre comes in on Flare Blitz, sets up rain, then Arceus-Psychic comes in on Low Kick). This is not a foolproof method of dealing with Mega Blaziken, however. This variant of Arceus-Psychic is also more reliable than the specially defensive set due to the 164 Defense EVs, helping it take Flare Blitz better.

Lastly, it is best not to be too obvious with Arceus-Psychic when using it, as it is not too hard to predict its switchin and send in Yveltal, Arceus-Ghost or Darkrai to scare it away and gain free turns; as mentioned, throwing out a Will-O-Wisp to catch these Pokemon on the switch is not a bad play. It is also interesting to note that Mega Gengar cannot really trap Arceus-Psychic safely due to it being OHKOed by Judgment on the switchin, and can have its Taunt Magic Coated back at it.

Something of note are that it is reasonably hard for physical attackers to set up on Arceus-Psychic; Will-O-Wisp cripples Swords Dance Arceus and Groudon, whilst Mega Blaziken, who is immune to burn and can therefore set up Swords Dance on several support Arceus, is promptly OHKOed by Judgment.

Team Options
========

Xerneas takes care of Dark Types such as Darkrai and Yveltal with a specially defensive spread, and can use Aromatherapy to cure itself and Arceus-Psychic of any status. Sylveon can also work too, as can Clefable - Clefable gets special mention for being able to wall certain things that try to set up on Arceus-Psychic, such as Calm Mind Arceus formes; however, Clefable tends to be better with a physically defensive spread and therefore cannot take Oblivion Wings and Sludge Bombs as well as specially defensive Sylveon and Xerneas can. Sylveon gets bonus points for being able to wreck Darkrai with Hyper Voice even if it Substitutes on Arceus-Psychic, whilst Xerneas can absorb Dark Void if it is running a Rest/Sleep Talk cleric set - the two can take even a +2 Life Orb Sludge Bomb whilst easily OHKOing back with a Fairy move, although Bad Dreams + Stealth Rock means that Xerneas can fall to it.

Ho-Oh switches in on opposing Calm Mind Arceus that can try and take advantage of Arceus-Psychic, and can also eat up hits from Yveltal and Darkrai easily. It helps that this variant of Arceus-Psychic can viably run Defog, making Ho-Oh’s life a lot easier. Ho-Oh can also take on any kind of Genesect, devouring U-Turns, Bug Buzzes, Iron Heads and Ice Beams and asking Genesect FOR MOAR, with Genesect having to blow itself up to threaten Ho-Oh at all (a point of interest is that Genesect will receive the Special Attack boost due to Arceus-Psychic’s defensive spread, so U-Turn will not be boosted). It also frightens Scizor to death, although bear in mind that switching in on U-Turn from either hands the initiative to the opponent, as well as Scizor sometimes carrying Toxic especially for Ho-Oh (although the aforementioned Fairies can deal with this).

Dark Types of your own are also useful, as Lugia has the potential to be irritating (you can Magic Coat its Toxic and Whirlwind back however), and if Arceus-Psychic goes down before the opponent’s Mewtwo does, you may have a backup check to them, with Yveltal in particular being able to Sucker Punch Mewtwo. Darkrai and Yveltal can deal with Arceus-Ghost too, which can cause Arceus-Psychic huge problems and also threatens to set up on it. They also deal with Gothitelle nicely, which can otherwise trap Arceus-Psychic and set up on it with Calm Mind and Trick Room.


2. All-encompassing Mewtwo Counter
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name: All-encompassing Mewtwo Counter
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Payback
move 3: Magic Coat
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Sassy

Moves
========

Judgment is used as STAB, allowing for fair neutral damage thanks to the Plate boost, and importantly allows Arceus-Psychic to 2HKO Mega Mewtwo X. Payback is used to 2HKO all Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y, and also allows for a guaranteed OHKO against Deoxys-Attack, which can just barely live a Judgment if not running a Naive or Rash nature. Magic Coat allows Arceus-Psychic to reflect back status moves, most importantly Taunt from Mewtwo - It allows Arceus-Psychic to beat all variants of Stalltwo as it protects Arceus from Taunt and from Will-O-Wisp, and means that Payback’s power is not cut in half by a burn. Lastly, Recover is to keep Arceus-Psychic at high health so that it can repeatedly come in on Mewtwo and Deoxys-Attack.

Set Details
========

Sassy with full Special Defense investment allows Arceus-Psychic to counter any variant and forme of Mewtwo completely, whilst not reducing the power of Payback or Judgment. Not even Mega Mewtwo Y’s Shadow Ball, which is already a very rare and inferior move on Mewtwo, can 2HKO after Stealth Rock (I think, have to check this). Judgment deals with Mega Mewtwo X, coming very close to a 2HKO, whilst MMX can't do much back, and also does solid damage to other tier members neutral to it, such as 3HKOing Palkia without Leftovers - due to the Special Defense investment, Arceus-Psychic can act as a decent check to offensive Palkia - bear in mind that Palkia will be faster, however, and can carry status. Payback is useful for Mewtwo and Mewtwo Y, 2HKOing both of them as long as Arceus-Psychic isn’t burned, and also guaranteeds an OHKO on Deoxs-Atttack. Magic Coat is useful for bouncing back hazards from the likes of Deoxys-Speed and Klefki, as well as shielding Arceus-Psychic from Toxic and other status, and Taunt from Mewtwo. Lastly, Recover helps keep Arceus-Psychic at a high amount of HP and means that it can do its job better. An alternative spread is 252 HP / 240 SpDef / 16 Spe Careful, with Zen Headbutt over Judgment, so that Arceus-Psychic can outspeed neutral Speed base 90s - however, Zen Headbutt cannot 2HKO Mega Mewtwo X and does less damage than Judgment on average (although Kia takes more from Zen Headbutt I think). Other interesting options are Roar, which along with the full Special Defense and HP investment allow it to survive a Moonblast from Geomancy Xerneas after Stealth Rock damage and phaze it away, as well as phazing away anything that tries to set up on Arceus-Psychic. Extremespeed can also find a place to finish off certain threats and help in anti-leading Deoxys-Speed and Deoxys-Attack (hitting them with Payback first, then Extremespeeding them, whilst also being able to bounce back Stealth Rock or Taunt with Magic Coat); however, Extremespeed is very weak without STAB or investment, and takes up a valuable moveslot.

Usage Tips
========

Arceus-Psychic should be switched into Mewtwo liberally, even before it has been revealed what kind of Mewtwo it is, due to its ability to take on all three formes and any variant of the three. Its ability to easily sponge Psystrikes, Fire Blasts, Ice Beams, Low Kicks and other moves helps it immensely, and it can immediately threaten Mewtwo with its moves. If it is revealed that the Mewtwo is a Stalltwo variant, however, it is recommended to be careful not to switch in Arceus-Psychic on a Taunt or a Will-O-Wisp, as it will no longer be able to Magic Coat a Will-O-Wisp back or Recover if Taunted, whilst its Payback will be crippled and turn from a 2HKO to a 4HKO against Mewtwo, as well as taking large residual damage each turn.

Arceus-Psychic should also be switched into Deoxys-Attack (and, as mentioned, can even anti-lead it), due to its ability to sponge even Life Orb Psycho Boost easily, as well as not being threatened by a 2HKO from any other move Deoxys-Attack carries; only 252 Atk Life Orb Knock Off and 252 SpAtk Life Orb Dark Pulse have a chance of 2HKOing (and require suboptimal moveslots and/or EV spreads anyway); Deoxys-Attack is easily OHKOed by Payback or even by Judgment if it is running Naive nature, which is the standard.

Use Magic Coat smartly. Don't spam Magic Coat all the time as it gives free switches however. Using it to ambush Klefki, Toxic Palkia, SR Groudon, and Taunt Mewtwo (who will almost certainly try to Taunt to stop you statusing it) means that Arceus can protect itself from status and keep hazards away. Using it at the correct time is also important, as revealing it early on can lead to the opponent being more careful with their Klefki/Toxic spreading/etc.

Due to the full HP investment, Arceus-Psychic also does not do too badly against Mega Blaziken due to resisting Low Kick, being able to switch in on it and easily OHKO Mega Blaziken with Judgment. Swords Dance on the switchin can prove problematic, but if using Kyogre, it is possible to switch around smartly so that Arceus-Psychic can easily take on even +2 Mega Blaziken thanks to the rain (e.g. Kyogre comes in on Flare Blitz, sets up rain, then Arceus-Psychic comes in on Low Kick). This is not a foolproof method of dealing with Mega Blaziken, however.

Lastly, it is best not to be too obvious with Arceus-Psychic when using it, as it is not too hard to predict its switchin and send in Yveltal, Arceus-Ghost or Darkrai to scare it away and gain free turns. It is also interesting to note that Mega Gengar cannot really trap Arceus-Psychic safely due to it being severely damaged or OHKOed by Judgment on the switchin.

Team Options
========

Xerneas takes care of Dark Types such as Darkrai and Yveltal with a specially defensive spread, and can use Aromatherapy to cure itself and Arceus-Psychic of any status. Sylveon can also work too, as can Clefable - Clefable gets special mention for being able to wall certain things that try to set up on Arceus-Psychic, such as Arceus-Normal and various Calm Mind Arceus formes; however, Clefable tends to be better with a physically defensive spread and therefore cannot take Oblivion Wings and Sludge Bombs as well as specially defensive Sylveon and Xerneas can. Sylveon gets bonus points for being able to wreck Darkrai with Hyper Voice even if it Substitutes on Arceus-Psychic, whilst Xerneas can absorb Dark Void if it is running a Rest/Sleep Talk cleric set.

Ho-Oh switches in on opposing Calm Mind Arceus that can try and take advantage of Arceus-Psychic, and can also eat up hits from Yveltal and Darkrai easily. However, this means that a Rapid Spinner or Defogger is mandatory, and Arceus-Psychic cannot be the one doing it as it does not really have space on its moveset. Ho-Oh can also take on any kind of Genesect, soaking up U-Turns, Bug Buzzes, Iron Heads and Ice Beams without a second thought, with Genesect having to blow itself up to threaten Ho-Oh at all. It also frightens Scizor to death, although bear in mind that switching in on U-Turn from either hands the initiative to the opponent, as well as Scizor sometimes carrying Toxic especially for Ho-Oh. Speaking of Ho-Oh, it can come in on Arceus-Psychic relatively easily, so it is important to keep up Stealth Rock to prevent it from doing so, and also have a decent switchin such as Tyranitar or Landorus-Therian; usefully, both of these can set up said Stealth Rock.

Dark Types of your own are also useful, as Lugia has the potential to be irritating (you can Magic Coat its Toxic and Whirlwind back however), and if Arceus-Psychic goes down before the opponent’s Mewtwo does, you may have a backup check to them, with Yveltal in particular being able to Sucker Punch Mewtwo. Darkrai and Yveltal can deal with Arceus-Ghost too, which can cause Arceus-Psychic huge problems and also threatening to set up on it. They also deal with Gothitelle nicely, which can otherwise trap Arceus-Psychic and set up on it with Calm Mind and Trick Room.


3. Calm Mind
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name: Arceus-Psychic the Calm Mind King
move 1: Psyshock
move 2: Thunder / Fire Blast / Focus Blast
move 3: Calm Mind
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
evs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Psyshock is STAB and hits the opponent in their Defense, giving Arceus-Psychic a strong move to use against its opponents. The coverage move is up to peronal preference and team structure, with each move hitting a different target. Calm Mind allows Arceus-Psychic to set up, whilst Recover keeps it at high HP.

Set Details
========

STAB Psyshock is what gives Arceus-Psychic its niche as a Calm Mind user. It allows Him to do things that other Arceus can't, such as beating other CM Arceus by preying on their unboosted Defense. It also allows Him to get past Ho-Oh by hitting the turkey bird in her weaker Defense. Usefully, Psyshock also allows Arceus-Psychic to beat Gothitelle, as at +1, Psyshock 3HKOes Gothitelle, meaning that she can't Taunt and set up Calm Mind and Rest (sorry Melee Mewtwo).

Choose your coverage move as appropriate. Thunder gives the best neutral coverage, and hits Yveltal, Lugia and Kyogre. Focus Blast is the only move that lets you take Tyranitar, and hits Steel-Types. Fire Blast hits Steel-Types too, murdering Scizor and Genesect (although Genesect might just U-Turn out, and needs to be caught on the switch if Choice Scarfed).

Alternative EV spreads are max Speed to tie with other Arceus that run the same, and moving Defense and maybe HP investment into Special Attack so that Arceus-Psychic hits harder. 176 Speed allows Arceus-Psychic to outspeed and easily OHKO unevolved Mega Gengar even at +0, meaning that it cannot Destiny Bond Arceus-Psychic away like the cheap piece of shit that it is, i don’t think i’ll have time to play the suspect but please get this piece of shit out of here.

Usage Tips
========

Use like you would any Calm Mind Arceus. Wait until its checks are gone then set up and sweep lategame. Watch out for Toxic in particular, as it ruins all Calm Mind Arceus without Refresh, and Arceus-Psychic can't use Refresh due to needing coverage. However, burn is not the worst status as it protects you from Toxic, paralysis and Darkrai’s Dark Void. Using coverage moves to complement the rest of Arceus-Psychic’s teammembers is recommended, e.g. It is kind of pointless to use Fire Blast for opposing Scizor / Genesect if Ho-Oh is on your team, and Focus Blast is kindof pointless if you have something like Groudon to destroy opposing Tyranitar with / Xerneas to destroy opposing Arceus-Dark with / etc.

Team Options
========

Mega Gengar can Destiny Bond away Dark Types if it has to, as well as trapping other annoying Pokemon, and can be an annoyingass stupid bitch in general. Ho-Oh checks the CM Arceus that Psychic Arceus loses to, such as Ghost and Dark. The issue here is that Arceus can't provide Defog support, so Rapid Spin users are probably your best bet, as otherwise Ho-Oh will fall.Xerneas or another Fairy-Type work well to check Dark-Types and provide cleric support. Heatran works nicely against Genesect and Scizor if you don't want to run Fire Blast or use Ho-Oh. Ground-Types deal with Tyranitar if you leave Focus Blast at home, and can set up SR to help break Lugia.

Other Options
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Toxic may be good on everything, but on Arceus-Psychic it means that Steel-Types causeeven more problems. Thunder Wave can cripple Yveltal and Darkrai, Darkrai in particular, whilst also deterring setup from things such as Geomancy Xerneas. Dark Pulse or Surf on Calm Mind (or Thunderbolt if you aren't a real man who runs Thunder) .Perish Song and Roar are nice moves, and Perish Song in particular helps against last-man-standing opponents such as Calm Mind Resttalk Xerneas or Mono Calm Mind Arceus, making it a great tool for stall, an archetype that doesn’t appreciate the triple threat Mewtwo can pose. It is probably best to run Perish Song with full speed investment so that Arceus-Psychic has the best chance of Perish Singing against said Calm Mind Arceus. Extremespeed + Payback + Magic Coat ruins Deoxys leads. Psyshock can be used over Judgment to deal fair damage to Ho-Oh, as well as dealing consistent supereffective damage to Arceus-Poison, but sadly does not 2HKO Mega Mewtwo X. Punishment stops Arceus-Ghost, Gothitelle and Mega Mewtwo Y from setting up with Calm Mind, but is very specialised and is extremely weak unboosted (it does not 2HKO Mega Mewtwo Y or even 3HKO normal Mewtwo) as well as having very low PP.

Checks & Counters
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**Yveltal**: probably the most threatening tier member to Arceus-Psychic, it can come in on Psychic moves, Payback, Defog and Magic Coat for free, and threatens Arceus-Psychic immensely with Dark Pulse, whilst also being able to Sucker Punch boosted Calm Mind variants. It does not appreciate Will-O-Wisp on the switchin, however, and falls to boosted Thunder from a well-played Arceus-Psychic.

**Darkrai**: Outspeeds Arceus-Psychic, and is a triple threat (huehuehue who gets the basketball reference), being able to Dark Pulse Arceus-Psychic, Dark Void it or the switchin, or set up Nasty Plot/even Substitute as Arceus-Psychic runs away. It can also check the Calm Mind set competently, only really fearing Focus Blast on the switchin. Arceus-Psychic can be a man and Magic Coat Dark Void back, however.

**Arceus-Ghost**: threatens to set up with Calm Mind or Swords Dance, or simply beat up on Arceus-Psychic with Judgment. However, it can be burned by Will-O-Wisp, making it risky to set up Swords Dance, whilst Calm Mind variants can lose to Calm Mind Arceus-Psychic variants that have more boosts due to Psyshock hitting Arceus-Ghost in its unboosted Defense.

**Blissey**: eats up everything support Arceus-Psychic can do whilst threatening with Toxic, and does not particularly care about having its Toxic reflected back due to Natural Cure and Heal Bell. Boosted Psyshock from Calm Mind Arceus-Psychic can severely hurt her though.

**Steel-Types**: resist Judgment and Psyshock and can U-Turn off of it (Genesect and Scizor), set up and status it (support Dialga), or status it/hit it with Shadow Ball (Aegislash). However, Genesect, Scizor and Aegislash are ruined by Will-O-Wisp, and Dialga doesn’t particularly appreciate it either.

**Ho-Oh**: comes in on anything the support sets have and threatens burns and / or heavy damage with Sacred Fire or Brave Bird. It does not, however, do too well against Calm Mind Arceus-Psychic, due to Psyshock hitting it in its relatively low Defense, meaning that unlike other Calm Mind Arceus (Dark, Ghost, Steel, Poison), Arceus-Psychic actually has a much easier time getting through Ho-Oh.

**Lugia**: Hard walls the Calm Mind set unless Multiscale is broken and it is hit by +2 Thunder, and can poison Calm Mind Arceus-Psychic and / orWhirlwind it away. It can Dragon Tail away support Arceus-Psychic, and can also poison it / Whirlwind it away if it isn’t caught by Magic Coat.

**Shadow Tag**: Gengar cannot come in safely due to Judgment, but can outspeed Support Arceus-Psychic and deal heavy damage with Shadow Ball. It can also be stupendously gay and Destiny Bond Calm Mind variants away, but loses if it is not mega evolved. Gothitelle can trap support Arceus-Psychic and set up Calm Mind, cannot 2HKO Arceus-Psychic at +6, and loses to Calm Mind Arceus-Psychic due to being slower and getting hit in its unboosted Defense by Arceus-Psychic’s boosted Psyshocks, whilst also not being able to Taunt reliably due to Magic Coat, and also loses to the rare Punishment.

**Status**: Toxic ruins Arceus-Psychic’s walling ability and comes from every direction this generation. Will-O-Wisp is also thrown around by support Arceus and ruins Payback’s damage output if you are running it, as well as stacking nasty residual damage. Thunder Wave ruins Arceus-Psychic’s great speed and leaves it open to slower threats such as Yveltal’s Dark Pulse.
 
Last edited:

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Wrote a skeleton for this mon as part of the initial dex rush, take from it what you will.

Overview
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- Can check Deoxys-A and both Mewtwo formes
- Difficult to trap since it OHKOes Mega Gengar and beats Gothitelle with Punishment
- Only two useful resistances - Psychic is not the best typing defensively
- Outclassed by Mewtwo at offensive roles

Utility Counter
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name: Utility Counter
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Punishment / Defog
move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 144 SpD / 112 Spe

Moves
========

- Judgment is STAB, OHKOes Mega Gengar and 2HKOes Mega Mewtwo X.
- Punishment prevents Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo Y from setting up, also stops Gothitelle from trapping and can mess up setup attempts from other Calm Mind Arceus, particularly Ghost
- Defog can be used over Punishment to clear hazards and gives extra utility outside of checking Mewtwo
- Will-O-Wisp checks EKiller and other physical threats such as Groudon and Mega Lucario
- Toxic messes up Ho-Oh and other Arceus formes
- Recover to stay alive


Set Details
========

- 112 Speed outruns Garchomp
- Max HP for bulk
- Rest goes into SpD to help take special Mewtwo's coverage moves

Usage Tips
========

- Only use on teams that need a reliable Mewtwo check
- Can also check Deoxys-A and EKiller with Will-O-Wisp
- Try to catch checks such as Ho-Oh/Yveltal with status on the switch
- Don't reveal Punishment until its needed

Team Options
========

- Fairies provide cleric support and check Yveltal and Darkrai - Xerneas and Sylveon are good teammates
- Ho-Oh/Dialga can check Steel-types
- Palkia can check Kyogre
- Groudon/Landorus-T check Tyranitar and can help against Ho-Oh with Stealth Rock
- Kyogre is neat since Psychic Arceus can check Blaziken with rain support + it helps against Ho-Oh


Other Options
########

- Can run Calm Mind with Psyshock as a bulkier version of Mewtwo, but is mostly outdone by Mega Mewtwo Y
- Focus Blast gives a line of defense against Heatran and Dark-types
- Perish Song also checks Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo Y and can act as something of a phazing move
- Refresh to heal status
- Thunder Wave is another status option - stops Geomancy Xerneas from setting up
- Zen Headbutt for physical STAB
- Stone Edge if Ho-Oh is a major concern


Checks & Counters
########

**Dark-types**: Yveltal, Darkrai, Dark Arceus, and Tyranitar (if no Will-O-Wisp) switch in easily and shred Psychic Arceus with STAB Dark-type attacks
**Steel-types**: Scizor, Heatran, Klefki, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, and Bronzong can all come in easily and cripple Psychic Arceus with Toxic or set up hazards
**Ghost Arceus**: Doesn't like Punishment or status but otherwise sets up and KOes Psychic Arceus pretty easily
**Ho-Oh**: Takes hits from Psychic Arceus easily and ruins it with Sacred Fire or Toxic
**Kyogre**: Takes hits from Psychic Arceus easily and overwhelms it with STAB rain boosted Water-type attacks
**Xerneas**: Geomancy sets set up pretty easily on Psychic Arceus
**Toxic**: Ruins Psychic Arceus's ability to wall threats
 

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Wrote a skeleton for this mon as part of the initial dex rush, take from it what you will.

Overview
########
- Can check Deoxys-A and both Mewtwo formes
- Difficult to trap since it OHKOes Mega Gengar and beats Gothitelle with Punishment
- Only two useful resistances - Psychic is not the best typing defensively
- Outclassed by Mewtwo at offensive roles

Utility Counter
########
name: Utility Counter
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Punishment / Defog
move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 144 SpD / 112 Spe

Moves
========

- Judgment is STAB, OHKOes Mega Gengar and 2HKOes Mega Mewtwo X.
- Punishment prevents Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo Y from setting up, also stops Gothitelle from trapping and can mess up setup attempts from other Calm Mind Arceus, particularly Ghost
- Defog can be used over Punishment to clear hazards and gives extra utility outside of checking Mewtwo
- Will-O-Wisp checks EKiller and other physical threats such as Groudon and Mega Lucario
- Toxic messes up Ho-Oh and other Arceus formes
- Recover to stay alive


Set Details
========

- 112 Speed outruns Garchomp
- Max HP for bulk
- Rest goes into SpD to help take special Mewtwo's coverage moves

Usage Tips
========

- Only use on teams that need a reliable Mewtwo check
- Can also check Deoxys-A and EKiller with Will-O-Wisp
- Try to catch checks such as Ho-Oh/Yveltal with status on the switch
- Don't reveal Punishment until its needed

Team Options
========

- Fairies provide cleric support and check Yveltal and Darkrai - Xerneas and Sylveon are good teammates
- Ho-Oh/Dialga can check Steel-types
- Palkia can check Kyogre
- Groudon/Landorus-T check Tyranitar and can help against Ho-Oh with Stealth Rock
- Kyogre is neat since Psychic Arceus can check Blaziken with rain support + it helps against Ho-Oh


Other Options
########

- Can run Calm Mind with Psyshock as a bulkier version of Mewtwo, but is mostly outdone by Mega Mewtwo Y
- Focus Blast gives a line of defense against Heatran and Dark-types
- Perish Song also checks Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo Y and can act as something of a phazing move
- Refresh to heal status
- Thunder Wave is another status option - stops Geomancy Xerneas from setting up
- Zen Headbutt for physical STAB
- Stone Edge if Ho-Oh is a major concern


Checks & Counters
########

**Dark-types**: Yveltal, Darkrai, Dark Arceus, and Tyranitar (if no Will-O-Wisp) switch in easily and shred Psychic Arceus with STAB Dark-type attacks
**Steel-types**: Scizor, Heatran, Klefki, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, and Bronzong can all come in easily and cripple Psychic Arceus with Toxic or set up hazards
**Ghost Arceus**: Doesn't like Punishment or status but otherwise sets up and KOes Psychic Arceus pretty easily
**Ho-Oh**: Takes hits from Psychic Arceus easily and ruins it with Sacred Fire or Toxic
**Kyogre**: Takes hits from Psychic Arceus easily and overwhelms it with STAB rain boosted Water-type attacks
**Xerneas**: Geomancy sets set up pretty easily on Psychic Arceus
**Toxic**: Ruins Psychic Arceus's ability to wall threats
Thank you Fireburn :)

Should i go with the Timid set that you suggested or the Sassy set that I worked out with Shrang? or should i post both? the Sassy set seems to be able to take hits better from Mewtwo + it doesn't lose to StallTwo, whereas the Timid set seems to be more useful overall. shrang Fireburn what do you guys think?

+ i think that CM deserves its own set, if only because only having one set is kindof sad for an Arceus forme. + STAB psyshock gets past Gothitelle/other CM Arceus + maybe you would want to use another kind of Mewtwo, idk :P
 
Not QC but I've tinkered with this thing so here's my input:

I feel the support set should look like this:

Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Defog / Punishment
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 248 HP / 144 SpD / 112 Spe

So it's pretty similar to what's in Fireburn's skelly, except that Punishment is slashed after Defog and Toxic isn't slashed. Psyceus is a good support forme, making Defog an optimal choice, so you'd probably want to run it if you elect to use Psyceus. Punishment is very nifty vs Mewtwo but overall it just seems lux and very specialised. It's somewhat like running Edgar's Pursuit Aegi because the move's nice for Gengar... except that Psyceus is even more hard-pressed to spare the moveslot than Aegi (which isn't really). Definitely the move to use if you have alternative means of hazard control, though. Will-O-Wisp is really nice on Psyceus, as it hurts annoying Steels (Scizor, Aegi, Ferro) that Psyceus can't touch otherwise. Toxic is better for Lugia and CM Arceus though. As mentioned, Magic Coat is an interesting option that can be used in slot 3 to fuck with Mewtwo.

As for CM:

Calm Mind
########
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Recover
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Thunder
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

Way too many slashes. :p Wisp is great as it makes Psyceus very hard to break on both sides. Thunder is great for Yveltal, Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Kyogre. Note that although the move really makes a difference vs the former 2, it's only <25% more powerful than Judgment vs the latter. Alternative EV spreads can be mentioned but the main one should probably just be max-max as CM Arceus want to be as fast as possible while making the best of their natural bulk.


Idk where to put this, but Psyceus can OHKO Mega Blaziken with Judgment (usage tips probably, or maybe a sweeping mention in overview).
 

jrp

Banned deucer.
lol no. 0 SpA Judgment caps out at 70%. even 252 spA modest judgment doesn't kill btw. i think it deserves a mention, but we'll leave it to qc.
252+ SpA Mind Plate Arceus-Psychic Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blaziken: 488-576 (162.1 - 191.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Mind Plate Arceus-Psychic Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blaziken: 362-428 (120.2 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


????

arceus definitely isnt going to enjoy eating a flare blitz, as non physically defensive variants are ohko'd at +2, so Arceus can't exactly do anything against it so the point is moot unless the blaziken is unboosted.
 
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????

arceus definitely isnt going to enjoy eating a flare blitz, as non physically defensive variants are ohko'd at +2, so Arceus can't exactly do anything against it so the point is moot unless the blaziken is unboosted.
i'm not sure what you are trying to say either, although i could have made myself clearer before.
my points:
  • psyceus and waterceus are the only viable support arc formes that can ko blaziken with judgment. i think this deserves mention because a blaziken at full health can technically set up an sd on other support arceus formes since a neutral 0 spA judgment caps at 70% damage. for this reason, i think blaziken should get a small mention somewhere in the analysis, although i admitted that i was unsure where exactly.
  • in my previous post, i was trying to explain the above point to minority suspect, who seems to think that mega blaze is much frailer than it really is. to put things in perspective, i stated that even a 252 spA modest neutral judgment (so, not from psyceus ofc) does not KO mega blaze.
also, yes, arceus will get killed by +2 flare blitz, but blaziken will more likely than not be unboosted. this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but i don't get how people automatically assume blaze to be at +2 because most of the time, it won't be.
 

shrang

General Kenobi
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I'm not liking Punishment, actually. You don't even 2HKO Mega Mewtwo Y with it (you don't even 3HKO regular Mewtwo most of the time). It also has really crappy PP, so any Mewtwo carrying Recover can just stall it out easily. A Timid nature isn't really helping either. Psychic Arceus really needs to run Sassy, I'm afraid, and Punishment just isn't going to cut it.
 

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
I'm not sure which QC is right - personally I think that Arceus-Psychic is only really good at checking Mewtwo formes - as in, it's the only thing it can do better than other Arceus really + it checks Deoxys-A (not sure how much Knock Off does - is it boosted to 97.5 base power or does it stay unboosted due to the plate being unremovable). For this reason, I think it's better for Psychic Arceus to optimise itself to doing what it does best, instead of halfheartedly checking Mewtwo kindof and trying to fit in with its other Arceus Forme buddies - also, something else which i thought of last night (and Fireburn actually wrote this) is that Psychiceus in rain does a good job against Mega Blaze, so I'll be sure to mention that as well.

tl;dr I'll keep the Sassy set that me and Shrang came up with for now, but I'll write up the other sets preliminarilaly (hmm) and, if it comes to it, we can have two sets, one being a dedicated Mewtwo counter/check and the other doing a decent job of it and doing a couple other things too :)

P.S. Punishment against MMX is absolute balls, BU outboosts it after 1 turn if that makes sense, + without Payback, MMY makes you sad with Shadow Ball, without Payback StallTwo makes you sad, Magic Coat is absolutely marvelous in my opinion to bounce Taunt back at Mewtwo/Will-O-Wisp back at StallTwo etc. without Sassy nature, Mewtwo Y can 2HKO on the switch with Shadow ball iirc, whereas with Sassy and full investment, Arceus has a really really high chance of being able to take Psystrike + 2 Shadow Balls from full health. There's no point in using an arguably very niche Arceus Forme to do a certain thing if it isn't sure of being able to do its job correctly - that is, shutting down all variants of Mewtwo nicely. Timid Arceus is outsped by its target whatever its EVs, so why not just leave it at that and buffer yourself against said target even more, instead of trying to do 3 different jobs at once and sucking at two of them, + potentially not even fulfilling your duties with regards to Mewtwo.

to sum everything up, if you're not using psychic Arceus to thoroughly fix an issue with Mewtwo, why are you using Him at all...? if you want Defog + WoW Arceus, use Yveltal as a Mewtwo check and use Arceus-Water/Grass/Fairy instead, right?

sorry if i repeated myself at all in this paragraph :)
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
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(and Fireburn actually wrote this) is that Psychiceus in rain does a good job against Mega Blaze, so I'll be sure to mention that as well.
I'm curious as to how this will work since weather isn't perma anymore. Do you send Kyogre in on a +2 Mega Blaze to take Flare Blitz and then double switch to Acreus-Psychic, to take the Low Kick / Flare Blitz. You then have to take another Flare Blitz and then finish with Judgment leaving you with a wounded Kyogre and a wounded Arceus-Psychic (not a big deal because you can recover but your opponent's send in will most likely force you out leaving you in KO range). This is a horrible way to check Mega Blaze as it can even predict a Kyogre switch and promptly KO with Low Kick. Arceus-Psychic is only going to beat Mega Blaze if it comes in on the turn it SDs and it has to be at FULL health, also keep in mind that many Mega Blaze builds run sun support.
 
I'm not sure which QC is right - personally I think that Arceus-Psychic is only really good at checking Mewtwo formes - as in, it's the only thing it can do better than other Arceus really + it checks Deoxys-A (not sure how much Knock Off does - is it boosted to 97.5 base power or does it stay unboosted due to the plate being unremovable). For this reason, I think it's better for Psychic Arceus to optimise itself to doing what it does best, instead of halfheartedly checking Mewtwo kindof and trying to fit in with its other Arceus Forme buddies - also, something else which i thought of last night (and Fireburn actually wrote this) is that Psychiceus in rain does a good job against Mega Blaze, so I'll be sure to mention that as well.

tl;dr I'll keep the Sassy set that me and Shrang came up with for now, but I'll write up the other sets preliminarilaly (hmm) and, if it comes to it, we can have two sets, one being a dedicated Mewtwo counter/check and the other doing a decent job of it and doing a couple other things too :)

P.S. Punishment against MMX is absolute balls, BU outboosts it after 1 turn if that makes sense, + without Payback, MMY makes you sad with Shadow Ball, without Payback StallTwo makes you sad, Magic Coat is absolutely marvelous in my opinion to bounce Taunt back at Mewtwo/Will-O-Wisp back at StallTwo etc. without Sassy nature, Mewtwo Y can 2HKO on the switch with Shadow ball iirc, whereas with Sassy and full investment, Arceus has a really really high chance of being able to take Psystrike + 2 Shadow Balls from full health. There's no point in using an arguably very niche Arceus Forme to do a certain thing if it isn't sure of being able to do its job correctly - that is, shutting down all variants of Mewtwo nicely. Timid Arceus is outsped by its target whatever its EVs, so why not just leave it at that and buffer yourself against said target even more, instead of trying to do 3 different jobs at once and sucking at two of them, + potentially not even fulfilling your duties with regards to Mewtwo.

to sum everything up, if you're not using psychic Arceus to thoroughly fix an issue with Mewtwo, why are you using Him at all...? if you want Defog + WoW Arceus, use Yveltal as a Mewtwo check and use Arceus-Water/Grass/Fairy instead, right?

sorry if i repeated myself at all in this paragraph :)
Knock Off hits for regular damage on support Arceus formes, and the biggest thing Psychic Arceus has going for it is that it can counter Deoxys-A. Knock Off / Dark Pulse is a 3HKO even from the Life Orb set, meaning that chances are you can switch in and take it out (unless flinches, other hax, and about 3 layers of hazards lol)
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Psychic: 177-208 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Psychic: 185-218 (41.6 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Those moves are the hardest hitting that Deoxys-A can do and as you can see Psyceus can switch in on them and win. If it's running Sash then its attacks are doing even less meaning that hitting twice isn't even an issue.

Also, using Psyceus purely as a Mewtwo check didn't work for me. I tested this a fair bit (since i had the plan to write this then changed my mind for based flyceus) and i found that using the Calm Mind set with Psyshock and Dark Pulse works well as Mewtwo becomes set-up fodder ( it tends to Taunt you however :( ) You also play mind games with trapping mons like Goth and Gengar, Psyshock ensuring you win in the long run and playing around with Gengar's forced Destiny Bonds can mean you win against it if you win the mind games. Dark Types give you hell though, having something like Sp Def Xerneas helps a lot with that. My two cents.
 
Calm Mind
########
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Recover
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Thunder
item: Mind Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

Way too many slashes. :p Wisp is great as it makes Psyceus very hard to break on both sides. Thunder is great for Yveltal, Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Kyogre. Note that although the move really makes a difference vs the former 2, it's only <25% more powerful than Judgment vs the latter. Alternative EV spreads can be mentioned but the main one should probably just be max-max as CM Arceus want to be as fast as possible while making the best of their natural bulk.

//

Idk where to put this, but Psyceus can OHKO Mega Blaziken with Judgment (usage tips probably, or maybe a sweeping mention in overview).
Quoting part of my above post. Excessive slashing on CM IMO. At any rate, Thunder should get first slash over Thunderbolt; the latter when super effective is merely as powerful as a neutral Judgment.

EDIT: just to clarify, the above comparison is just to illustrate how weak tbolt is rather than a direct comparison between tbolt and judgment (I'm aware that targets of electric coverage like Yveltal and lugia are immune to/resist judgment)
 
Last edited:

yohoE

I'm jus Here for da memes r wateva dem shits called
Alright, so after reading all this stuff and talking with folks I think I've settled on what Psy arc should be this gen.

Personally, I like having an Arceus forme that checks Mewtwo rather than a Mewtwo check that uses up my Arceus forme. Shrang's brought up good points about punishment and, tbh, even with Payback I don't think it's needed anymore. Mewtwo rarely uses Shadow Ball (turns out that's just a Dice thing) and even with Payback you are probably going to lose to Mewtwo. Best set for support imo is:

-Judgment
-Wisp
-Recover
-Magic Coat / Defog

I think Wisp is important so that Psyceus still does typical bulky Arceus things like check Ekiller and crap. I like the Magic Coat on Psychic Arceus even more this gen now that Taunt Mewtwo is so popular and anti-leading is always cool. Defog is Defog though so that's totally an option as well. Rest is pretty self explanatory.

As for CM, I agree with what Malefic has posted with the exception of using Shock over Judgment for the STAB move (unless there's some calcs I'm missing, please share if so) so just implement what he had but with that minor change.

As for ev spreads, standard support / cm Arceus spreads apply.

-MM2
 
oml what was I typing I meant psyshock

I guess judgment hits grounds harder but CM wars + goth = definitely psyshock
 

Blue Jay

The notorious Good Wife
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Overview
Cool

Support
Go with MM2's variant imo (except Recover above WoW). Payback is such a deadweight moveslot outside of MMY or Classictwo (it doesn't even help with the likes of Gothitelle or Wobbuffet) and forces a disgusting EV spread/nature (worst of all one which gives you enough bulk and the right typing to check Geo Xern but no space for Roar). For all the threat Mewtwo presents I don't think that's worth it. I'd much rather it can accomplish some of the usual support Arceus stuff, with a 252 / 160 / 96 Timid spread and 2 support moves. Magic Coat is cool since the typing messes with Deo-S and Deo-A and it helps against Mewtwo (especially Stalltwo) while making Klefki cry and helping against Toxic spam. Will-o-wisp has nice overall utility, although I guess Thunder Wave can get a Moves mention (good vs the Dark types or if you run into a Shadow Ball MMY since you don't have Payback, and can annoy some other stuff too) and Defog can be slashed with Coat like MM2 suggested. You could maybe make a Set Details mention of a max SpD set with Payback, Judgment and Roar (if you're gonna use that awful spread at least have a way to screw over Geo Xern) but I'd much rather have a reasonable Mewtwo check that can do support Arceus stuff than a Mewtwo counter that's slower than offensive base 90s. I dislike Toxic because you're just Steel type fodder then (Twave too but at least it cripples Ygod and Rai and helps check MMY).

Usage Tips
Magic Coat is good but don't spam it (= free switch) and try not to reveal it too early if an opponent has mons weak to it (eg Klefki). Avoid status as always with support Arceus. Play carefully against Shadow Ball MMY.

Team Options
FAIRIES because no one likes Dark types (not just Xern, there's lots of good ones). Highlight the own Dark type to help check like Ghostceus too. Ho-Oh can be cool for some CM Arceus and helps with Dark types, but mention that if you're using it you need Defog on Psyceus (non-Arceus Defoggers aren't good enough for Ho-Oh). Ho-Oh also switches into U-turns from Genesect or if you lack Will-O-Wisp against Scizor. You might also want Defog or a spinner somewhere if this doesn't have it.

CM
Why would anyone ever use CM Psyceus. Ditch Dark Pulse imo, this isn't a good MMY check either way and DP sucks against Dark types, Thunder already hits Lugia, you won't beat Ghostceus with it (super effective STAB > super effective coverage, your best bet is being ahead in boosts and then at like +4 OHKO with Psyshock), Psyshock hits Gengar, Tinas aren't that common and while it's good neutral coverage it's also weak. Focus Blast could be maybe be slashed after Fire Blast, without Thunder you have no chance of breaking Lugia tbh and it still hits a lot of Steels/Darks super effectively and is the only option that doesn't make you Tyranitar food. Ditch Surf in Set Details and mention a max speed spread.

Usage Tips
Ditch Refresh/Surf mentions.

Team Options
Fairies/clerics, I'm not sure Gengar is particularly good here (and with the right coverage there's a good chance of beating Ygod/Darkrai), Heatran is nice against Bug types if you lack Fire Blast, same with Ho-Oh (but emphasize that it needs good anti-hazard support somewhere else). A Ground type to handle Tyranitar if you lack Focus Blast and give you SR to break Lugia is good too.

Other Options
Toxic but Steel types suck. Dark Pulse on CM. Emphasize that SD sucks even by Psyceus standards. Perish Song and Roar are usual support Arceus options (the former especially can help stall win).

Checks & Counters
Add Ghostceus above Blissey.

QC: 1/3
 

shrang

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Go with MM2's variant imo (except Recover above WoW). Payback is such a deadweight moveslot outside of MMY or Classictwo (it doesn't even help with the likes of Gothitelle or Wobbuffet) and forces a disgusting EV spread/nature (worst of all one which gives you enough bulk and the right typing to check Geo Xern but no space for Roar). For all the threat Mewtwo presents I don't think that's worth it.
I'm not so sure about this. I know you'd much rather a support Arceus with more utility, but Psychic Arceus has little on other support Arceuses apart from the fact that it's the best Mewtwo counter in the game. Take that away and you're kind of just losing the purpose of using Psychic Arceus IMO.
 
What happened to implementing blue jay's stuff, there's still payback with first slash ?_? Didn't look at much else beyond that, will give it a more careful look when you've implemented what Bluejay's suggested already, etc.
 

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
I have now tried writing this piece of shit up twice, and it's literally impossible to do with all the differing opinions. one QC says Payback is mandatory, another says it needs to go, one QC says Sassy, another says Timid, one says Defog the other says Magic Coat, etc etc etc

Hack He Must Edgar Fireburn Sweep and any other QC, please can i have your detailed opinions on this stupid divisive Pokemon, and whichever prove the most popular will be written up i guess :/
 

shrang

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Sassy. Like I said, you're going to use Timid and Defog, don't bother using Psychicceus since there are way more useful support Arceuses for that role. If you're going to use Psychicceus you should use the thing that it can do that nothing else can.
 

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Okay the issue i have now is shrang says Payback is mandatory, but Blue Jay says Payback is trash and wants Arceus to be doing more support Arceus-y things like Defog and be 96+ Timid. Melee Mewtwo says Blue Jay is right about Payback and also wanted a 96+ spread, but Fireburn told me Sassy with a strong mention of Timid. Could we all agree on what the set should be, it seems to either be

Utility Check
########
name: Mewtwo Utility COUNTER
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Payback / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Magic Coat / Defog
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Sassy

OR

General Arceus support that also doesn't do too bad against Mewtwo
########
name: Mewtwo Utility Check
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Magic Coat / Defog
move 4: Recover
item: Mind Plate
evs: 248 HP / 164 SpDef / 96 Speed
nature: Timid

In Blue Jay's words:

I'd much rather have a reasonable Mewtwo check that can do support Arceus stuff than a Mewtwo counter that's slower than offensive base 90s.
so.... which will it be? :/ sorry shrang to keep bringing this up again and again :/

Edit: Hell, we could even have both. This solves all issues, no?
 
I agree with Shrang. It's utter stupid to elect for a normal defog set in this case- it's typing is going to leave it prone to a lot of shit and there are better options for for defog then. If you are gonna use this mon at all, use it for its advantages, namely checking Mewtwo, which you will need payback for.
 
Arc-psy still checks Mewtwo without Payback and has a move that is just far more useful in general. Payback only gives it a shot at beating the odd Sball Mewtwo which still beats you if it calls the switch. It's really lame, imo, to eat up your arc slot for some dedicated and generally useless Mewtwo counter when arc psy can do plenty other things for the team and still make sure Mewtwo doesn't rape your team.
 

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