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Quality Control Arceus-Psychic (Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'BW Ubers Analyses' started by Sweep, Apr 12, 2014.

  1. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

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    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Psychic Arceus carves out an excellent niche as one of the few Pokemon that can check Mewtwo and Deoxys-A effectively. Though at first glance Latias might appear to be the superior choice as a defensive Psychic type, Psychic Arceus differentiates itself thanks due its better physical bulk, higher base Speed, a lack of a weakness to common Ice and Dragon attacks, and access to excellent support moves such as Will-O-Wisp, Stealth Rock and Perish Song. Psychic Arceus is also much more difficult to trap with Pursuit, especially if it runs Will-O-Wisp. Though Psychic Arceus is most often seen running a support set, it can also run an effective Calm mind set since Psyshock gives it an edge in Calm Mind wars. That isn't to say Psychic Arceus is flawless. Its typing lends it weaknesses to common Ghost, Dark, and Bug-type moves and only one resistance. It is also not threatening offensively unless it has multiple Calm mind boosts, since Psychic STAB is mediocre in Ubers due to the many Pokemon that resist or carry immunities to Psychic moves. Psychic Arceus also struggles with common hazard setters since it rarely finds a moveslot available for Fire Blast, though Psyshock variants can beat Tentacruel. If your team needs a check to powerful Psychic types and can cover Psychic Arceus's weaknesses, it will not disappoint.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Ice Beam / Payback
    move 4: Toxic / Stone Edge / Roar
    item: Mind Plate
    nature: Timid / Jolly
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Psychic Arceus is an excellent support Pokemon in Ubers due to its lack of relevant weaknesses to common physical attacks (barring Genesect's U-Turn) and its ability to check threats such as Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and Latias. Will-O-Wisp is an important move that allows Psychic Arceus to take advantage of its lack of physical weaknesses and superb bulk to burn almost all physical attackers in the tier without worry. It also provides a way to wear down Dialga and Forretress, two Pokemon Psychic Arceus despises. Recover is mandatory on Psychic Arceus to enable it to repeatedly check threats throughout the game. Since Psychic STAB is underwhelming in Ubers, this Arceus typically runs a coverage move in its place. Ice Beam is a good option to destroy Rayquaza and pressure Giratina-O, Groudon and other Pokemon. However, should you opt for a spread that can reliably beat Taunt three attacks Mewtwo, Payback can be used with a Jolly spread. Payback also deals good damage to Latias and Latios. The final move depends on team need. Toxic is very viable even though Psychic Arceus already runs a status move, since Will-O-Wisp cannot shut down Calm Mind Arceus formes like Toxic can. Toxic is also Psychic Arceus's best option against Lugia. Stone Edge can be used to lure and kill Ho-Oh if your team is weak to it. Finally, Roar is an excellent move on support Arceus in general, especially in conjunction with hazard support. It works best on Ice Beam variants that are inherently more susceptible to Calm Mind Latias and Latios.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Arceus to outrun Garchomp while providing as much physical bulk as possible to deal with threats such as double Dance Groudon and Swords Dance Rayquaza. Bear in mind that Payback variants should run a Jolly nature over Timid, especially if it opts to run Stone Edge as well. A max speed spread can be used to outrun Latias and Latios while speed tying other Arceus formes, but the extra speed is generally not very useful. Psychic Arceus can run several moves not listed on its set with adequate effectiveness. It can serve as your team's Stealth Rock user if you lack user of the move. However, only use Stealth Rock on it as a last resort. Perish Song is an option on Stall teams to serve as a win condition against set-up sweepers. Magic Coat is another intriguing option that can surprise status users and hazard setters such as Ferrothorn, Forretress and Froslass.</p>

    <p>Psychic Arceus excels on defensively-oriented Rain teams to ensure it can check LO Mewtwo efficiently, as Rain will prevent Fire Blast from 2HKOing it. When using Psychic Arceus, remember that its job it to spread status while being able to check powerful Psychic-types and physically-oriented Pokemon, so use Will-O-Wisp and Recover liberally. It will not need to attack very often, though it does need to hit Pokemon such as Mewtwo, Rayquaza and Deoxys with its coverage moves to actually defeat them one on one. Specially defensive Kyogre makes an excellent partner, as it can deal with Darkrai and Calm Mind Ghost Arceus while simultaneously weakening Mewtwo's Fire Blasts. Heatran is a good partner as well, since it resists all three of Psychic Arceus's weaknesses. In particular, Heatran can easily deal with specially-oriented Genesect, which threatens to OHKO Psychic Arceus at +1 after Stealth Rock damage. In return, Psychic Arceus can burn Ground and Fighting-types such as Ground Arceus and Terrakion. Finally, Lustorus Orb Palkia pressures hazard setters that Psychic Arceus invites in and checks Kyogre, while Psychic Arceus can handle faster dragonsd like Latias and Garchomp in return.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Focus Blast / Dark Pulse
    item: Mind Plate
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Psychic Arceus's access to STAB Psyshock. Calm Mind makes Arceus incredibly difficult to revenge on the special side, forcing the opponent to beat it with physical moves. Psyshock is what makes this set worthwhile, as Psychic Arceus possesses the potential to win most Calm Mind wars because of it. Recover is mandatory on Arceus to increase its longetivity. There are two quality options for the final slot. Focus Blast grants Psychic Arceus a way to beat the myriad of Steel-types that would otherwise wall it, such as Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Heatran. On the other hand, Dark Pulse allows Psychic Arceus to still function as an excellent check to Psychic types such as Latias, something this set cannot do well if you choose to forgo Dark Pulse. Both moves are equally viable so the choice is up to you and typically depends on team need.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set opts for max Speed to speed tie opposing Arceus and outrun Latias and Latios; the extra Speed can prove critical in a Calm Mind war against the latter two since they also have access to Psyshock. Psychic Arceus is vulnerable to all status, so while it is capable of setting up a Calm Mind in the face of many offensive threats, it struggles with both Toxic and paralysis. Also, if you see a Pokemon that easily walls Psychic Arceus, refrain from setting up a Calm Mind until the counter is sufficiently worn down. Toxic Spikes severely hamper Psychic Arceus, so Tentacruel makes a great partner for it. Tentacruel also possesses the ability to lure and cripple its checks such as Ghost Arceus with Toxic, while Psychic Arceus can check Pokemon such as Latios in return. As with the last set, specially defensive Kyogre makes a great partner since it can check Darkrai, Dark Arceus Ghost Arceus and while weakening Ho-Oh's Sacred Fires. Ferrothorn and Forretress also make for good partners because both of them resist all of Psychic Arceus's weaknesses and can set up multiple layers of Spikes, helping wear down its checks. In return, Psychic Arceus can check Terrakion and Fight Arceus for Ferrothorn.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>If you are using Psychic Arceus on a Sun team, Fire Blast is a viable option on both sets to nail bulky Excadrill and Forretress that attempt to spin on it. Fire Blast also stops Ferrothorn from setting up multiple layers of Spikes. Spacial Rend is also a viable move on the support set to pressure Palkia, Reshiram, and other Dragon-types. Finally, Thunder Wave can be used as an alternative status move, though most of Psychic Arceus's common switch-ins are not bothered by it much. There are not any other moves really worth considering on this Pokemon.</p>

    [CHECKS & COUNTERS]

    <p>Darkrai is the best check to Psychic Arceus in the game since it fears nothing Arceus can throw at it while hitting Arceus super-effectively with Dark Pulse. If Darkrai has not already slept something, it can use Dark Void on Arceus too. Certain Calm Mind Arceus will beat Psychic Arceus one on one by virtue of typing, such as Dark Arceus and Ghost Arceus. Ho-Oh is an excellent check to Psychic Arceus, though it must be wary of a rogue Stone Edge from the support variant and a +1 Psyshock after Stealth Rock from the Calm Mind variant. A Sun-boosted Sacred Fire will deal massive damage to Psychic Arceus while it will struggle to damage Ho-Oh in return. Dialga walls Psychic Arceus and can cripple it with Toxic or Thunder Wave. Though Focus Blast variants have an easier time wearing Dialga down, even a +1 Focus Blast will not come close to OHKOing it. Heatran stonewalls both of Psychic Arceus's sets and easily sets up Stealth Rock on it. Ferrothorn and Forretress can set up hazards on Arceus too, though they dislike Will-O-Wisp and Magic Coat and despise the rare Fire Blast. Kyogre will easily beat Psychic Arceus 1-1 since Arceus does not resist its powerful Rain-boosted Water moves. Kyogre also takes little from any of its attacks and isn't too bothered by a Will-O-Wisp burn. Special Genesect will get a Special Attack boost from Download on the support variant and can proceed to destroy Arceus with Bug Buzz. However, physical Genesect can only do around 50% with U-Turn, so healthy Arceus can simply Recover off the damage every time it comes in. Note that physical Genesect deals upwards of 70% damage to the Calm Mind variant after it boosts. Other pokemon, such as Kingdra, Omastar, and Toxic Jirachi will easily beat Psychic Arceus one on one. In general, Psychic Arceus is hard to kill, but very easy to switch into.<p>

    Show Hide

    [OVERVIEW]
    • Underrated defensive typing allows it to adequately check Mewtwo and Deoxys formes very well
    • Differentiates itself from Latias with its significantly higher physical bulk, higher Speed, a lack of a weakness to common Ice and Dragon moves, and access to moves like Will-O-Wisp, Perish Song and Stealth Rock that Latias wish it had (also not Pursuit-bait due to Will-O-Wisp)
    • Can run a decent Calm Mind set since Psyshock enables it to win CM wars
    • Three nasty weaknesses to Bug, Dark, and Ghost, all of which are found in Ubers
    • Horrible offensive typing, not very threatening unless it has multiple Calm Mind boosts
    • Hazard bait since it has trouble fitting Flamethrower / Fire Blast...it can beat some spinners such as Tentacruel (possibly others depending on moveset)
    • Simple Pokemon to use, very viable but there's naturally a high opportunity cost with it being an Arceus forme...fits best on Stall since those teams tend to have more trouble with Psychics than Offense
    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Ice Beam / Payback
    move 4: Toxic / Stone Edge / Roar
    item: Mind Plate
    nature: Timid / Jolly
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Will-O-Wisp and the lack of physical Ghost/Dark types moves (lol at SD Arceus-Ghost, it can actually get outstalled by this 1-1) make Psychic Arceus a nice check to most physical threats
    • Genesect does ~50% with U-Turn, so it gets Recovered off easily
    • Checks Deoxys-A really well
    • Beats most variants of Mewtwo but loses to Sun-boosted Fire Blasts and hates Taunt...though taunt 3 attacks has trouble touching Psychic Arceus with Sunny Fire Blasts and gets worn down quickly, so really only LO Sun Fire Blast and the uncommon Stalltwo win
    • Wisp burns Groudon/EKiller/SD Groundceus/etc, also cripples Forretress and Ferrothorn and wears down Dialga; high speed allows Arceus to burn before getting attacked in many instances
    • Ice Beam OHKOes Rayquaza, does chip damage to sweepers and stuff like Latias
    • Payback is another good attacking move that 2HKOes Mewtwo and Lati@s, acting as a utility counter
    • 4th move adjustable based on team needs, Toxic is viable as a second status ailment to cripple CM Arceus and Latias...Stone Edge prevents Psychic Arceus from being Ho-Oh bait and Roar is an excellent move to punish switches with hazard support, and provides obvious utility
    • Magic Coat can be very nice on this to prevent hazard setters from having a field day. Can also surprise Darkrai but usually not worth staying in
    • Other viable moves available include Judgment (AWFUL coverage), Stealth Rock, and Perish Song.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Excels on Rain teams to ensure it can check LO Mewtwo efficiently; fits best on Stall because its defensive capabilities>>>offensive capabilities, though it's a viable wall on offense too if you can afford to lose some momentum
    • EV spread lets it outrun Garchomp and below while survive a +1 Outrage from Life Orb Rayquaza after SR damage
    • Max Speed viable to check Latios and Latias but generally unnecessary
    • Run Jolly if using Payback
    • Beware of fast Substitute users like the SubCM Arceus, unless it carries Roar or Perish Song
    • Will mostly be spreading burns and Recovering its health; Ice Beam usually only used to finish off very weakened threats, Deoxys, or some Dragons
    • Specially Defensive Kyogre helps check Darkrai and CM Arceus-Ghost, which this set hates, while weakening powerful Fire moves with Drizzle
    • Heatran checks Special Genesect while Psychic Arceus checks Terrakion and physical Ground types in return (Physical Genesect isn't a major issue)
    • Palkia pressures hazard setters, which this Arceus tends to invite, fast physical dragons such as Garchomp are taken care of by Psychic Arceus in return

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psyshock
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Focus Blast / Dark Pulse
    item: Mind Plate
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Somewhat effective CM user because Psyshock gives it an advantage vs. most other Calm Mind users in Ubers
    • Psyshock is not strong at all initially; Psychiceus needs multiple Calm Mind boosts to start dishing out damage
    • Recover is self-explanatory
    • Dark Pulse for harder hit on Mewtwo while still hittting Lati@s
    • Focus Blast to bop incoming Darkrai and deal OK damage to Dialga, which otherwise completely stonewalls you
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Vulnerable to all status, so while Psychic Arceus can set up a Calm Mind in the face of many offensive threats, it struggles with Toxic and Paralysis
    • Last coverage move depends on team need...if your team has a harder time breaking down Steels, use Focus Blast, and if Lati@s and Giratina-O are a concern, try Dark Pulse
    • Toxic Spikes severely hamper Psychic Arceus, so Tentacruel is a great partner. Toxic Tentacruel deals fairly well with Ghost Arceus in the rain and takes Genesect's STAB moves like a champ, and Psychic Arceus deals well with Lati@s in return
    • Specially Defensive Kyogre checks Darkrai, Ghost Arceus, Dark Arceus, and other Pokemon that trouble Psychic Arceus while providing it rain protection from Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire
    • Steel types such as Ferrothorn and Forretress resist all of Psychic Arceus's weaknesses while setting up spikes to help soften the opposition
    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    • Fire Blast or Flamethrower if you want to use this on Sun for some reason; no spinning for you, Excadrill/Forry
    • Spacial Rend (I use this sometimes over Ice Beam to help wear down Palkia, which rain stall struggles with without Arceus-Grass unless you have a blob...also helps with Reshiram while still bopping Rayquaza for good damage)
    • Thunder Wave I guess, annoys Scarfers
    [CHECKS & COUNTERS]

    • Darkrai
    • Dark Arceus (cannot Perish Song this safely, gulp)
    • Ho-Oh
    • Arceus-Steel
    • Dialga is an ass, especially if it has Toxic
    • Ferrothorn and Forry set up hazards on you despite loathing Will-O-Wisp (ferro moreso than forry)
    • Heatran
    • Kyogre overwhelms you
    • Special Genesect
    • Others? (Heracross / Specs Omastar / Specs Kingdra / Jirachi [REALLY hates WoW though] etc.)
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014 at 1:00 PM
    Muk likes this.
  2. Muk

    Muk
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Also important to note in the latias diff that you aren't a dragon-type, which means no Ice Beam or Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor weaknesses. (Mewtwo, Palkia, Latios)

    I don't really like slashing SR and Perish Song. Both are kinda a waste to have on Arceus and you can often compensate for what they accomplish with your teammates. I'd probably rather see Stone Edge be slashed if anything does just cause you are kinda Ho-Oh bait atm. (although Toxicing Ho-Oh isn't bad either) Roar is always a good way to just blindly punish any switch so that might be worth a slash as well.

    I feel like Magic Coat is good enough in bw to deserve being moved out of moves. Psychic Arceus already has the typing to not fear Deo-A and the bulk to not worry TOO much about a switch to Genesect (unlike most other Magic Coat psychic types) plus it sorta helps deal with being Darkrai bait by reflecting a predicted Dark Void.

    Not really much else to say, a simple but beautiful mon.

    QC Approved 1/3
    [​IMG]


    -MM2
    Melee Mewtwo likes this.
  3. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is an official Team Rateris a SPL Winner

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    I would slash Ice Beam and Payback on support since payback does over half to Mewtwo and Latis, making it more effective as a utility counter

    0 Atk Arceus-Psychic Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 182-216 (51.5 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 Atk Arceus-Psychic Payback (100 BP) vs. 164 HP / 0 Def Latias: 184-218 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Add set comments for the CM set I guess....?

    :]
    aim likes this.
  4. Saso

    Saso Banned deucer.

    Joined:
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    I pref use latias, and take othervtime arceus (steel, wgrass, ghost, ...) psi arceus no is a good idea, if u take a Cm arceus u presect a +1 in atk genesect amd gg.

    I dont like it dat arceus. Yes i know genesect kill latias with u-turn.

    Im srry for my english.
    Cherub Agent likes this.
  5. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
    is an official Team Rateris a SPL Winner

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    Looks fine bro, slash Jolly nature on support in case they run Payback?

    QC Approved 2/3
  6. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    qc approved 3/3

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