Arceus-Rock [QC 2/3]



http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/arceus-rock

Overview
########

· Decent offensive typing, but suffers weaknesses to 5 common types on defense.

· Gets a major boon (in terms of viability) from its ability to handle Ho-oh, one of the biggest threats in the metagame, very effectively. Rock Arceus also has a good matchup against Yveltal, Kyurem-W, Fire mons, etc.

· Gets a handy 1.5x Special Defense boost from Sandstorm on top of 120/120/120 base defense stats, and can patch up its "weaker" physical side by burning foes with Will-o-Wisp.

· Is able to use Defog very effectively, even when compared with other support Arceus forms, as it doesn't need to run extra coverage moves to hit Ho-oh or Gengar.

· Demolished by Kyogre, greatly dislikes Mega Mewtwo-X, Blaziken, and any of the 5 Arceus forms with advantageous typing against Rock.


Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Defog
move 2: Recover
move 3: Judgment
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
ability: Multitype
item: Stone Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe

Moves
========

· Judgment provides a reliable, decently powerful STAB move. Handles the numerous flying types in Ubers (read: Ho-oh, Yveltal) well.

· Recover provides longevity, which is a must on any defog supporter.

· Defog removes hazards and screens, which, by all accounts, is pretty neat.

· Will-O-Wisp messes up the physical attackers that would otherwise prove problematic for this set.


Set Details
========

· 112 speed with a timid nature is amongst the better spreads for support Arceus-Rock, as it allows for Rock Arceus to zip past Garchomp and Base 100s, while still leaving room for extra defensive investment. Running 252+ speed is also a decent option, as it allows Rock Arceus to at least get the speed tie with other Arceus forms.

· Max HP is self-explanatory. Placing 144 EVs in defense helps Rock Arceus ward off physical damage, even giving it a 50% chance to live an Earthquake from a +2 Normal Arceus (running a jolly nature, 252 attack, and holding a Life Orb).

Usage Tips
========

· This set has 2 main roles: checking assorted offensive threats & keeping hazards off your field.

· Arceus-Rock is one of the few Pokémon in the tier than can easily switch into either of Ho-oh’s STAB attacks. Be somewhat wary of the fiery turkey when switching in, though; Earthquake from a banded set does more than enough to 2hko.

· Will-o-wisp combined with solid base defenses allows it to serve as an okay check to a number of physical attackers (including some with super-effective coverage, such as Mega Kangaskhan and Extremekiller Arceus). This works particularly well on a predicted switch; opponents will rarely stay in on Rock Arceus with fire or flying types, and burn will cripple incoming checks like Mega Mewtwo X and Lucario. Don’t rely too much on this capability, though, as a well-placed Lum Berry or inopportune miss can result in Rock Arceus getting pummeled by physical damage.

· Defog should be used with caution, as it allows opponents to either get a free hit or switch into one of Rock Arceus' checks. A particularly good example of this is Bisharp, which gets a free +2 attack boost if it switches into Defog, allowing it to KO back with Iron Head.

· The presence of Sandstorm allows Arceus-Rock to reach a ridiculously high level of special defense, further increasing its longevity.


Team Options
========

· Since Kyogre flat-out demolishes Arceus-Rock, having a check, such as Palkia, is essential.

· As this set lacks refresh, having a teammate with Aromatherapy or Heal Bell (i.e. Xerneas, Blissey) prevents statuses like Toxic and Burn from wearing down Arceus-Rock over time. Clearing burns from Rock Arceus is particularly useful, given how frequently it ends up switching into Banded/Life Orb Ho-oh. Xerneas also has a handy resistance to the fighting types that plagued Rock Arceus in Gen V, but shares a common weakness to steels.

· Shaymin-S is a pretty good teammate all-around, as it tears through the most of the offensive threats to Arceus-Rock (Ground, Grass, Fighting, Water) while also appreciating the latter’s resistances to Flying/Fire and ability to clear Stealth Rock.

· Ho-oh also covers a wide range of threats to Rock Arceus (although the two share a common weakness to Water) and provides much more bulk than Shaymin-S.

· Scizor can support Rock Arceus through its handy resistance to grass types. At the same time, Scizor benefits greatly from the stone titan's ability to beat down Ho-oh.

· Giratina-Origin is immune to both fighting and ground type moves, while also resisting grass and water-typed threats, making it a nearly ideal way of checking Rock Arceus' threats.

· Lugia sports an immunity to ground alongside resistances to grass and fighting, and also appreciates Rock Arceus' ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field.


Calm Mind Mono-Attacker
########
name: Arceus - Zen Mode
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment
move 3: Recover
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Refresh
ability: Multitype
item: Stone Plate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112Spd

Moves
========

· Calm Mind is, as one might expect, is what makes this set click. After just a couple of boosts, Rock Arceus can handle a good part of the tier with its powerful Special Attack and nigh-on impregnable special defense.

· Judgment serves as an effective STAB move which, notably, has no immunities.

· Recover helps prevent Rock Arceus from getting worn down by chip damage and priority.

· Will-O-Wisp stops physical attackers from exploiting the defensive stat that CM can't boost, while also providing utility for the team even if Rock Arceus goes down.

· Refresh has a rather self-explanatory role, removing statuses that would otherwise put Rock Arceus on a timer.



Set Details
========

· Max HP is what it is (Take more hits => Do more in return => Profit).

· 112+ Speed, as stated before, is the benchmark to beat Garchomp and Timid Base 100 opponents, the fastest of the common threats that Rock Arceus can reliably outspeed. Other speed investments, such as 252+ speed and 96+ speed, are usable, but they either allow common threats to get off the first hit against Rock Arceus or simply leave it too frail.

· Investing 144 EVs in defense allows Rock Arceus to patch up the defensive stat which isn’t being boosted by Calm Mind.


Usage Tips
========

· It’s very likely that your opponent will have their Rock Arceus checks intact in the early and mid game; as such, this set tends to work best when it sets up in the lategame. Don’t try to force a setup too early. Rock Arceus gets its best setup opportunities against opponents like Reshiram and Ho-oh, which will likely switch under the threat of heavy damage. Yveltal can also be used as setup fodder at times, but Taunt will hinder said setup if it stays in.

· Sets lacking Will-o-wisp can’t stop threats like Groudon or Garchomp from switching in freely and smashing Rock Arceus with an Earthquake, while Toxic and Thunder Wave can cripple sets lacking Refresh. Know your weaknesses and play accordingly.

· CM Arceus sets with type advantages are often this set’s bane – don’t bother continuing to set up against them unless you’re at least at +3 on the switch-in. The majority of these threats are checked by Ho-oh, while CM Water Arceus will either fear status or physical threats like scarfed Zekrom.

· Once Rock Arceus gets off 3 Calm Mind boosts, it's in a very good position; for example, it can easily 2hko Assault Vest Palkia and avoid the 2hko from Hydro Pump in return. Similarly, +3 Special Defense turns Judgment from unboosted CM Waterceus into a 4hko.

Team Options
========

· Clerics are very useful if Rock Arceus lacks Refresh, as Toxic and Thunder Wave will limit your setup opportunities.

· Kyogre check (i.e. Palkia)

· Shaymin-S / Ho-oh – very good type synergy (see above)

· Giratina-Origin covers Rock Arceus' weaknesses to fighting, ground, grass & water, and can also provide Defog support for other teammates (such as Lugia & Ho-oh) as this particular set lacks that capability.

Other Options
########

· Can run a Swords Dance set which tears through numerous opponents (i.e. 252 HP Skarmory after Stealth Rock, Defensive Yveltal) after a single boost, and does a hefty chuck to Giratina and Landorus-T. However, the set faces several problems that can limit its utility. Rock Arceus' porous defensive typing allows it to be easily revenge-killed after setting up, burns are increasingly common thanks to Gen VI's Will-o-Wisp buff, and Stone Edge is unreliable as your only STAB move. On top of that, it faces competition from Arceus-Ground, which can run a nearly identical set and has better accuracy on its STAB.

· Stealth Rock can replace Defog on the support set, particularly if there are other potential defoggers/spinners on your team. It tends to have a higher opportunity cost than Defog, though, and there are plenty of other viable SR users in the metagame.

· Toxic can similarly be used over Will-O-Wisp on the support set, as it takes more of a toll on special setup sweepers. Not having Will-O causes some different problems, though, as the set becomes (a) unable to handle many physical threats and (b) complete setup fodder for the tier’s many Steel types.


Checks & Counters
########

**Kyogre**: Quite possibly the single biggest threat to Rock Arceus, Kyogre can win just about every matchup with the fossilized deer. Sets running Choice Scarf / Specs will ohko Rock Arceus with Water Spout and Surf respectively, while defensive variants still do heavy damage and can phaze out Calm Mind Rock Arceus with Roar.

**Blissey**: The demonic pink blob has little to fear from any variation of Rock Arceus (barring the obscure SD set) and can cripple it with status moves.

**Other Water Types**: Water Arceus, Palkia, and yes, even Omastar, can all dish out heavy damage, even if Drizzle isn't brought into play.

**Fighting Types**: The fighting-type portion of the Ubers metagame will regularly put Rock Arceus in a world of hurt. Blaziken and Fighting Arceus don't have to worry much about Will-o-Wisp, and will tear holes in the creator's rocky facade. Mega Mewtwo-X does fear Will-o-Wisp on the switch in, but can easily take down Rock Arceus with Low Kick. Rock Arceus, on the other hand, can only respond with minimal damage (against Fightceus and MMX, that is).

**Ground Types**: Ground Arceus, Groudon and Garchomp are amongst the more threatening earthen opponents that Rock Arceus faces in the tier, as every one of them can beat down Rock Arceus with Earthquake (or on rare occasions, ground-type Judgment). They're far from perfect checks, though, as most of these pokemon are vulnerable to Will-o-Wisp from Rock Arceus.

**Steel Types**: Steel Arceus is a serious threat to its Rocky cousin, as it resists Rock Arceus' STAB and deals heavy damage back with any of its sets. Dialga also resists rock-type Judgement, usually doesn't care much about a burn, and can deal more damage back if it's running Flash Cannon. Genesect and Scizor can also prove threatening to Rock Arceus at times, although their respective Steel STAB moves fail to net the OHKO, and neither of the armored bugs appreciate Will-o-Wisp.

**Bulky Grass Types**: Grass Arceus beats its rocky cousin through brute force, if nothing else, and other threats like Ferrothorn and Amoongus are easily capable of wearing Rock Arceus down.

**Shaymin-S**: While it cannot switch in on Rock Arceus freely, as Judgement from the support set is an OHKO, Shaymin-S outspeeds the stone titan and deals well over 70% of Rock Arceus' health with Seed Flare, enabling it to revenge-kill the deer with some prior damage.

............................................................................................................................................

Changelog
- 03/25/14 - Added Blue J's edits, moving onto writeup.
- 03/15/14 - Added Polop's edits.
- 03/08/14 - Moving onto QC now, reformatted C&C, wrote up overview skeleton.
- 02/21/14 - Added CM set, just about done with WIP stage afaik. I'll put up the overview shortly. Keep the input coming!

QC : [ polop / Blue Jay / ]
GP : [ / ]
 
Last edited:
I don't want a Toxic slash. Will-o-wisp is really good on especially this Arceus because Fire types don't switch in on it. I'll comment more when you have worked a bit more.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Also I'm dubious about hippo/ttar as partners. Sand is good for it but, moreso with ttar, typing overlap is potentially troublesome (even hippo shares water+grass weakness) so I'd make a note that if you use those that they share significant common weaknesses.
 

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
You're gonna need a mention of alternative EV Spreads. 184 Speed with Timid allows you to beat Mega Gengar before and during it's transformation, meaning you have 72 EVs to use for something else.
112 Speed with Timid lets you beat max Speed base 100s, notably Palkia, leaving you with 144 EVs to dump somewhere else.
 
You're gonna need a mention of alternative EV Spreads. 184 Speed with Timid allows you to beat Mega Gengar before and during it's transformation, meaning you have 72 EVs to use for something else.
112 Speed with Timid lets you beat max Speed base 100s, notably Palkia, leaving you with 144 EVs to dump somewhere else.
Are you sure you need 184 and 112? I did a few calculations, and I found that you only need 176 for Gengar and 96 for base 100s.
 

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Are you sure you need 184 and 112? I did a few calculations, and I found that you only need 176 for Gengar and 96 for base 100s.
The extra EV's are used for extra Pokemon that are right around that speed range, for example Thunderus for 184 and Garchomp for 112. Both are viable tho
 
I don't want a Toxic slash. Will-o-wisp is really good on especially this Arceus because Fire types don't switch in on it. I'll comment more when you have worked a bit more.
Yeah, I've heard that opinion quite a bit. Added Toxic on a quick recommendation while doing the WIP, but it's not the best fit. Will be fixing on the next update.

You're gonna need a mention of alternative EV Spreads. 184 Speed with Timid allows you to beat Mega Gengar before and during it's transformation, meaning you have 72 EVs to use for something else.
112 Speed with Timid lets you beat max Speed base 100s, notably Palkia, leaving you with 144 EVs to dump somewhere else.
Sounds good. Working on adding this atm.

Also I'm dubious about hippo/ttar as partners. Sand is good for it but, moreso with ttar, typing overlap is potentially troublesome (even hippo shares water+grass weakness) so I'd make a note that if you use those that they share significant common weaknesses.
Will make a note, thanks.
 
You're gonna need a mention of alternative EV Spreads. 184 Speed with Timid allows you to beat Mega Gengar before and during it's transformation, meaning you have 72 EVs to use for something else.
112 Speed with Timid lets you beat max Speed base 100s, notably Palkia, leaving you with 144 EVs to dump somewhere else.
It's 176 Speed to outspeed 110s (Gengar) and 96 for 100s (Palkia), though.
 

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
It's 176 Speed to outspeed 110s (Gengar) and 96 for 100s (Palkia), though.
I said it before:
The extra EV's are used for extra Pokemon that are right around that speed range, for example Thunderus for 184 and Garchomp for 112. Both are viable tho
I'd definitely want to outspeed Thunderus since it's somewhat used but I'll leave it up to him if Garchomp is worth the few extra EV's.
 
I tend to run modest max special attack as rock judgment hits pretty much everything for neutral or SE, so it gets used a lot. 212 speed beats timid palkia iirc and I would put the rest in hp or defence.

Also, defog/stealth rock IMO.
 
I use my arceus mainly for ho-oh and because nothing else on my team can hit lugia, defensive yveltal, or physically defensive giratina. (I run semi-stall)

I suppose that on most teams a bulky arceus rock is better though.

Still, I think stealth rock is very good on arceus.
 
I use my arceus mainly for ho-oh and because nothing else on my team can hit lugia, defensive yveltal, or physically defensive giratina. (I run semi-stall)

I suppose that on most teams a bulky arceus rock is better though.

Still, I think stealth rock is very good on arceus.
re; Stealth Rock: Arceus-Rock can be a pretty good SR user, but in doing so, you're basically giving up Defog's slot. That's a very high opportunity cost for any Support Arceus set, so I don't think SR is worth a slash. Might be worth a mention in other options, but idk.
 

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
re; Stealth Rock: Arceus-Rock can be a pretty good SR user, but in doing so, you're basically giving up Defog's slot. That's a very high opportunity cost for any Support Arceus set, so I don't think SR is worth a slash. Might be worth a mention in other options, but idk.
Not sure what other guys think about Stealth Rock slash, but Defog is far from mandatory on every team.
 
Yeah of course, if you don't aready have a defogger then defog is preferred. I know I keep referring to my own team, but I like giratina origin as my defogger as it's better against most rock setter leads, especially deoxys speed. I was just thinking that if you already have a defogger, then rocks might be a good option.
 

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Stealth Rock in OO is fine IMO. You really shouldn't use Arceus as the Stealth Rock user in general unless nothing else can learn it.
 
I think the best EV distribution for the Defog set should be with 96 Spd. Outspeeding 100 speed base is enough in most cases.

This let you 160 EVs to boost either Defense or Special Defense.
With defense, you can take Earthquake much better, especially from Choice Band Ho-oh, Mega-Kangaskhan or Normal-Arceus.
With special defense, you handle Yveltal better as Dark Pulse hurt if SDef is uninvested.

252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spd would be my pick.
 
Last edited:
CarbonTheSecond If you could get the main set, the overview, checks counters, and other options sections all out of wip (so bascially everything but the second set for now) by tomorrow that would be really helpful for me. We are going to have the new dex live soon and need at least a place holder skeleton. (oh and if you could jump ahead and format the checks and counters section like you see in the index that would be even better)
 
CarbonTheSecond If you could get the main set, the overview, checks counters, and other options sections all out of wip (so bascially everything but the second set for now) by tomorrow that would be really helpful for me. We are going to have the new dex live soon and need at least a place holder skeleton. (oh and if you could jump ahead and format the checks and counters section like you see in the index that would be even better)
Getting on it atm, thanks for the heads-up.
 
Moved on to QC after... 2 months or so... yeah...

In any case, added overview, fixed a few trouble spots, reworked C&C. Let's see how this goes.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top