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(Archive) Small Subjective Changes Thread

Discussion in 'Archives' started by eric the espeon, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. Namso

    Namso
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    I've took care of this.
  2. Namso

    Namso
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    I took care of this. Thank you.
  3. overtime

    overtime

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    the 3rd paragraph under the OTHER OPTIONS on Dragonite's page probably contains a typo.
    The last sentence says, "Dragonite also has access to Waterfall which has perfect accuracy and a handy flinch rate. It can be used on the Dragon Dancer and Choice Band, however it misses out on some 2HKOs that Waterfall provides."

    Me as wells as others noted that this doesn't make sense. Maybe the word "Waterfall" in the 2nd sentence should be replaced with Aqua Tail since it applies to the choice band moveset
  4. Namso

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    Thanks. I fixed this.
  5. Namso

    Namso
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    I agree with you. Fixed.

    True. I fixed it.
  6. Namso

    Namso
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    The reason for this is because Kingdra only needs 24 Special Attack EVs to 2HKO Skarmory and Forretress with Hydro Pump. He doesn't need to use a nature that lowers one of his defenses.

    Here are some calcs for proof:

    Life Orb Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpD Impish Skarmory: 59.58% - 70.36%
    -> vs 252 HP/ 252 SpD Impish Skarmory: 43.41% - 51.50%
    -> vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 62.99% - 74.58%
    -> vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Forretress:
    40.96% - 48.59%
  7. Namso

    Namso
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    I suppose you are right about this. I decided to simply take out that sentence because it isn't necessarily true. Thanks for bringing this up.
  8. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    Wow, I'm surprised that this was still here. I removed the entire paragraph, as the whole thing was centered around Cresselia. Thanks for posting here ^_^
  9. Namso

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    I spoke to Heysup, who is very knowledgeable about UU, and he agrees that Psycho Cut needs to be in there as the primary option. Aerial Ace is absolutely unnecessary and is inferior to Psycho Cut.

    However, I'm not going to include this change in the set because the Choice Band set needs a big moveset update anyway. The set needs to look like this: Sucker Punch / Superpower / Pursuit / [Psycho Cut / Night Slash] instead of what is listed there.
  10. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    After having attended this proposal and discussed it a bit between some QCers, we've decided that the LO Heatran set on-site deserves a mention of the following details in AC:

    - The possibility of using a +SpA nature and Stealth Rock in the lead position in order to function in an Anti-lead way.

    More information, calcs, and other details can be found in the same thread. Thanks.
  11. Namso

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    Since this was approved by QC, I went ahead and made a small mention of Life Orb Heatran being used as a lead. Thanks.
  12. Thorns

    Thorns

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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shaymin

    protect needs to be slashed in over substitute on the subseed set (change the name to defensive leech seed or something). protect is great cause you can stall a turn out of frail sweepers that are faster than you, giving you a free turn of leech seed. it also has scouting capabilities for choice mons like scizor and flygon who like to pull tricky shit with the u-turn mindgames. it is endorsed by reverb's article, so some players should be familiar with it already.
  13. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    i'm doing an update and phil is doing qc. protectseed is good though.
  14. Nosferalto

    Nosferalto We're all gonna make it
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    Also, about Shaymin, in the SubSeed set, the EV Spread should be 252 HP / 36 SpAtk / 220 Spe. I understand max Speed wasn't used because HP Fire lowers your Speed IV, but 220 Spe allows Shaymin to outspeed max Speed Jolly Gliscor since 216 doesn't achieve that with HP Fire lowering your Spe IV.
  15. Namso

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    Thanks Nosferalto. I've fixed this.
  16. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/flygon

    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Fire Blast / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    this is all the analysis says about this move. i actually believe that this flygon wants fire punch here instead of fire blast. fire blast may 2hko physical skarmory, but it won't do much to sdef skarm, who is still rising in popularity. on the other hand, fire punch does respectable damage to both, and 2hkoes sdef skarm with stealth rock.

    damage calcs for skarmory (open)
    Adamant Flygon Fire Blast

    vs. 252/0 Impish Skarmory : 51.5% - 61.1%
    vs. 252/252 Impish Skarmory : 38.3% - 45.5%

    252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch

    vs. 252/176 Impish Skarmory : 40.7% - 47.9%
    vs. 252/4 Impish Skarmory : 46.1% - 54.5%


    bronzong isn't 3hkoed by fire blast, but is cleanly 2hkoed by fire punch.

    damage calcs for bronzong (open)
    vs. 252/80/92 Sassy Bronzong

    Adamant Flygon Fire Blast : 28.4% - 33.7%
    252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch : 54.4% - 64.5%


    i also think scizor is relevant here. i'd like to point out that fire blast from choice band flygon does not guarantee an ohko against most scizor, and any that invest in special defense will easily survive. fire punch ohkoes all scizor. this is big, because if you fail to ohko, scizor will easily 2hko with bullet punch (or if scizor switched in and survived, will inflict ~70% before going down)

    damage calcs for scizor (open)
    vs. 248/0/0 Adamant Scizor

    Adamant Flygon Fire Blast : 91% - 107.3%
    252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch : 131.8% - 155.1%

    vs. 176/0/232 Adamant Scizor

    Adamant Flygon Fire Blast : 73.8% - 87.4%
    252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch : 139.1% - 163.7%


    and then there's that bloody 85% accuracy thing, meaning the one reason to use fire blast may still fail. i made the change on-site (needs a cache) but i wanted to post here anyway so that people knew why/could debate it.
  17. Great Sage

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    Note: you don't need to post here if you have SCMS access.
  18. Spenstar

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    I have a theory here about any set that runs subsitute. I know that some pokemon have a maximum of 404 HP for those magic 101 subs, but for any pokemon that runs subsitute, can have more than 404 HP, and only settles for that amount of HP, I recommend adding 4 HP EVs into HP to make the number 405. Why, you might ask? The reason, I feel, is simple: with 405 HP, you can make 4 101 subs with 1 HP remaining, rather than just 3 101 subs with 404 HP.
  19. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    Most Pokemon that run 101 HP Substitutes have Leftovers, which means this point is moot. Additionally, a lot (i.e. Azumarill, Suicune, and Jirachi) also have only base 100 HP, meaning that 252 HP EVs gives them 404 HP.
  20. A2ZOMG

    A2ZOMG

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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/electivire

    On Other Options, I believe it should be mentioned for physical sets, Screech is an option that can allow Electivire do more damage to some walls who may want to switch in on him. With Screech, Electivire can do over 50% to Swampert with Earthquake or Cross Chop if he is holding a Life Orb. Against Hippowdon, the Curse set has a chance of being 1HKOed by Ice Punch after switching into Screech, while other sets take at least 73%. Rotom-A can be 2HKOed with Ice Punch or Fire Punch after Screech as well.
  21. Spenstar

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    An example of what I'm talking about is Rhyperior with Substitute and 405 HP. This also applies to any pokemon with Base 101 HP or Higher. (obviously those with base 100 HP don't have a choice)

    Rhyperior comes in on a bulk up Blaziken, for example, and takes no entry hazard damage. As Blaziken switches, it sets up subsitute and recovers HP from lefties. If Rhyperior's subs get broken every turn, he will have been able to set up a total of 6 subs before fainting. A pokemon with 404 HP would only get five.

    Sometimes the extra HP could make all the difference in getting you one more sub. If you have EVs to spare, it could help you a lot.

    On another note, there's something else I'd like to bring up. A few points, so bear with me.


    1. Cleric Blissey should always have Heal Bell on the main sets as a viable alternative. If you don't have any soundproof pokemon, Heal Bell is better due to a situational tiebreaker: if your opponent snatches it and has a soundproof pokemon on their team, they don't get the full benefit.
    2. any pokemon not using physical attacks should have an attack lowering nature and 0 attack IVs, to minimize the damage taken if confused.
    Yeah... that's kind of it. Whatever :P
  22. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    I think those are the reasons why, and after you fail to 1HKO you are promptly killed. Also this takes up a moveslot, and the only reason to use Electivire is it hits 13 Types with SE damage, so giving up coverage to allow it to nearly 2HKO things isn't that good. (Sorry if its not my place to post this...)
  23. redundant

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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/flygon

    This is from the Special Life Orb Flygon set. I'm pretty sure that Blissey ran some different EVs at one point, but now it runs Bold 252 Hp / 252 Def, meaning that Earthquake is no longer a 2HKO; it manages 38.7% - 45.5% on all current OU sets.
  24. Spenstar

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    On the Swords Dance set for Infernape, fire punch is listed as the "reliable" option over Flare Blitz. However, due to its low base power, (similar base power gives Dancing Weavile troubles as well) I recommend replacing it on the set with Blaze Kick, a 90% accurate move (not a problem, especially when Fire Blast's 85% accuracy is overlooked, for it is the main fire STAB option on the Nasty Plot set) with 85 base power. This adds up to be 127.5 after STAB, while Fire Punch adds up to 107.5 after STAB.

    20 more base power for 10% accuracy seems like a desirable trade, especially when Fire Blast is recommended over Flamethrower in a more extreme Power VS Accuracy debate, and Blaze Kick has no unfavorable other downsides compared with Hi Jump Kick (for the sake of example) or Flare Blitz. And when benefiting from Blaze, that power difference grows even greater, however Flare Blitz doesn't benefit well from Blaze, since the recoil could finish Infernape off.

    I'd also recommend adding Slack off to Other Options. Its main use would be to recover off Life Orb/Flare Blitz/Entry Hazard/Weather damage, as well as damage Infernape would have taken switching in. However, I do not recommend it to be paired with Close Combat for obvious reasons.
  25. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    I wouldn't be comfortable switching to an imperfectly accurate move until a calculation proved it was necessary. Missing blows.

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