(Archive) Small Subjective Changes Thread

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/hippopotas

On the UU lead set there is the following sentace " The nature and Speed IV allow it to be slower than all Snover, so that sandstorm takes precedence over hail if the two leads are opposing each other."

However to find out what speed IV is required the person has to click the Team Optins and additional comments tab then read to the second to last line.
I've took care of this.
 
the 3rd paragraph under the OTHER OPTIONS on Dragonite's page probably contains a typo.
The last sentence says, "Dragonite also has access to Waterfall which has perfect accuracy and a handy flinch rate. It can be used on the Dragon Dancer and Choice Band, however it misses out on some 2HKOs that Waterfall provides."

Me as wells as others noted that this doesn't make sense. Maybe the word "Waterfall" in the 2nd sentence should be replaced with Aqua Tail since it applies to the choice band moveset
 
the 3rd paragraph under the OTHER OPTIONS on Dragonite's page probably contains a typo.
The last sentence says, "Dragonite also has access to Waterfall which has perfect accuracy and a handy flinch rate. It can be used on the Dragon Dancer and Choice Band, however it misses out on some 2HKOs that Waterfall provides."

Me as wells as others noted that this doesn't make sense. Maybe the word "Waterfall" in the 2nd sentence should be replaced with Aqua Tail since it applies to the choice band moveset
Thanks. I fixed this.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/infernape

On the second paragraph of the overview, I think it rambles on about Starmie a bit too long. It doesn't seem necessary to continue explaining why it stops Infernape over two sentences. Probably important to note that the counters section only briefly mentions Starmie but talks about how Vaporeon and Tentacruel are his best counters, so it's odd that the overview emphazises Starmie.
I agree with you. Fixed.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/infernape
Counters discussion

"Tentacruel is the best counter to the most common set, the mixed Nasty Plotter"
| Infernape | Move | Nasty Plot | 15.8 |
And if that means Nasty Plot Ape with Close Combat instead of Focus Blast, then Physically-Based Mixape is more used, judging by locations on the analysis.

EDIT:
Perhaps: "Tentacruel is the best counter to the second most common set*, the mixed Nasty Plotter"
*if it is the second most common, that is.
True. I fixed it.
 
Kingdra's Dragon Dance + 3 Attacks set has Adamant listed as the nature, but Adamant lowers Kingdra's Special Attack, and Dragon Dance + 3 Attacks Kingdra uses, and even invests EVs in, its Special Attack stat. The nature for Dragon Dance + 3 Attacks Kingdra should be Naughty instead.
The reason for this is because Kingdra only needs 24 Special Attack EVs to 2HKO Skarmory and Forretress with Hydro Pump. He doesn't need to use a nature that lowers one of his defenses.

Here are some calcs for proof:

Life Orb Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpD Impish Skarmory: 59.58% - 70.36%
-> vs 252 HP/ 252 SpD Impish Skarmory: 43.41% - 51.50%
-> vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 62.99% - 74.58%
-> vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Forretress:
40.96% - 48.59%
 
This is a change to the LeadApe set on Infernape's analysis.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/infernape

The set recommends running no more speed than needed to outrun positive natured base 100s because "Due to the defense drops from Close Combat, any encounter with a fellow Infernape will almost always result in the slower ape winning, so in general, it is a poor choice to increase Infernape's Speed any further." (quote)

I believe that this is poor advice because if a player is aware of this fact they will use Fire Blast rather than Close Combat. The slower Infernape will then be in KO range and can be defeated, assuming the same set is used on both Pokemon. You will always win unless you miss repeatedly, and your Fake Out blocks theirs and saves your Focus Sash.

So, the opposite is true. The faster Infernape will usually win, not the slower one, and advising against it for no other specific reason is not good. If there is something I'm missing here, the sentence should be clarified, or if not, changed.
I suppose you are right about this. I decided to simply take out that sentence because it isn't necessarily true. Thanks for bringing this up.
 
Not sure where to post this but this seems to be the most appropriate thread.

In the Venusaur analysis, the fourth paragraph of the Mixed Attacker set mentions Cresselia -- now BL -- as a counter. I believe the set was written with UU usage in mind, not OU, so that mention of Cresselia should be removed.
Wow, I'm surprised that this was still here. I removed the entire paragraph, as the whole thing was centered around Cresselia. Thanks for posting here ^_^
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/absol

in Absols Choice band set, it should have Psycho cut either slashed with Aerial ace/Stone edge or at least mentioned somewhere in the set as a way to help beat Poison and Fighting types particulary Weezing and Haryima.
I spoke to Heysup, who is very knowledgeable about UU, and he agrees that Psycho Cut needs to be in there as the primary option. Aerial Ace is absolutely unnecessary and is inferior to Psycho Cut.

However, I'm not going to include this change in the set because the Choice Band set needs a big moveset update anyway. The set needs to look like this: Sucker Punch / Superpower / Pursuit / [Psycho Cut / Night Slash] instead of what is listed there.
 
After having attended this proposal and discussed it a bit between some QCers, we've decided that the LO Heatran set on-site deserves a mention of the following details in AC:

- The possibility of using a +SpA nature and Stealth Rock in the lead position in order to function in an Anti-lead way.

More information, calcs, and other details can be found in the same thread. Thanks.
 
After having attended this proposal and discussed it a bit between some QCers, we've decided that the LO Heatran set on-site deserves a mention of the following details in AC:

- The possibility of using a +SpA nature and Stealth Rock in the lead position in order to function in an Anti-lead way.

More information, calcs, and other details can be found in the same thread. Thanks.
Since this was approved by QC, I went ahead and made a small mention of Life Orb Heatran being used as a lead. Thanks.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shaymin

protect needs to be slashed in over substitute on the subseed set (change the name to defensive leech seed or something). protect is great cause you can stall a turn out of frail sweepers that are faster than you, giving you a free turn of leech seed. it also has scouting capabilities for choice mons like scizor and flygon who like to pull tricky shit with the u-turn mindgames. it is endorsed by reverb's article, so some players should be familiar with it already.
 

Nosferalto

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shaymin

protect needs to be slashed in over substitute on the subseed set (change the name to defensive leech seed or something). protect is great cause you can stall a turn out of frail sweepers that are faster than you, giving you a free turn of leech seed. it also has scouting capabilities for choice mons like scizor and flygon who like to pull tricky shit with the u-turn mindgames. it is endorsed by reverb's article, so some players should be familiar with it already.
Also, about Shaymin, in the SubSeed set, the EV Spread should be 252 HP / 36 SpAtk / 220 Spe. I understand max Speed wasn't used because HP Fire lowers your Speed IV, but 220 Spe allows Shaymin to outspeed max Speed Jolly Gliscor since 216 doesn't achieve that with HP Fire lowering your Spe IV.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/flygon

name: Choice Band
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Outrage
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Fire Blast / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Fire Blast allows Flygon to 2HKO Skarmory who do not invest in Special Defense.
this is all the analysis says about this move. i actually believe that this flygon wants fire punch here instead of fire blast. fire blast may 2hko physical skarmory, but it won't do much to sdef skarm, who is still rising in popularity. on the other hand, fire punch does respectable damage to both, and 2hkoes sdef skarm with stealth rock.

Adamant Flygon Fire Blast

vs. 252/0 Impish Skarmory : 51.5% - 61.1%
vs. 252/252 Impish Skarmory : 38.3% - 45.5%

252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch

vs. 252/176 Impish Skarmory : 40.7% - 47.9%
vs. 252/4 Impish Skarmory : 46.1% - 54.5%


bronzong isn't 3hkoed by fire blast, but is cleanly 2hkoed by fire punch.

vs. 252/80/92 Sassy Bronzong

Adamant Flygon Fire Blast : 28.4% - 33.7%
252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch : 54.4% - 64.5%


i also think scizor is relevant here. i'd like to point out that fire blast from choice band flygon does not guarantee an ohko against most scizor, and any that invest in special defense will easily survive. fire punch ohkoes all scizor. this is big, because if you fail to ohko, scizor will easily 2hko with bullet punch (or if scizor switched in and survived, will inflict ~70% before going down)

vs. 248/0/0 Adamant Scizor

Adamant Flygon Fire Blast : 91% - 107.3%
252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch : 131.8% - 155.1%

vs. 176/0/232 Adamant Scizor

Adamant Flygon Fire Blast : 73.8% - 87.4%
252 Adamant Flygon Fire Punch : 139.1% - 163.7%


and then there's that bloody 85% accuracy thing, meaning the one reason to use fire blast may still fail. i made the change on-site (needs a cache) but i wanted to post here anyway so that people knew why/could debate it.
 
I have a theory here about any set that runs subsitute. I know that some pokemon have a maximum of 404 HP for those magic 101 subs, but for any pokemon that runs subsitute, can have more than 404 HP, and only settles for that amount of HP, I recommend adding 4 HP EVs into HP to make the number 405. Why, you might ask? The reason, I feel, is simple: with 405 HP, you can make 4 101 subs with 1 HP remaining, rather than just 3 101 subs with 404 HP.
 
I have a theory here about any set that runs subsitute. I know that some pokemon have a maximum of 404 HP for those magic 101 subs, but for any pokemon that runs subsitute, can have more than 404 HP, and only settles for that amount of HP, I recommend adding 4 HP EVs into HP to make the number 405. Why, you might ask? The reason, I feel, is simple: with 405 HP, you can make 4 101 subs with 1 HP remaining, rather than just 3 101 subs with 404 HP.
Most Pokemon that run 101 HP Substitutes have Leftovers, which means this point is moot. Additionally, a lot (i.e. Azumarill, Suicune, and Jirachi) also have only base 100 HP, meaning that 252 HP EVs gives them 404 HP.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/electivire

On Other Options, I believe it should be mentioned for physical sets, Screech is an option that can allow Electivire do more damage to some walls who may want to switch in on him. With Screech, Electivire can do over 50% to Swampert with Earthquake or Cross Chop if he is holding a Life Orb. Against Hippowdon, the Curse set has a chance of being 1HKOed by Ice Punch after switching into Screech, while other sets take at least 73%. Rotom-A can be 2HKOed with Ice Punch or Fire Punch after Screech as well.
 
Most Pokemon that run 101 HP Substitutes have Leftovers, which means this point is moot. Additionally, a lot (i.e. Azumarill, Suicune, and Jirachi) also have only base 100 HP, meaning that 252 HP EVs gives them 404 HP.
An example of what I'm talking about is Rhyperior with Substitute and 405 HP. This also applies to any pokemon with Base 101 HP or Higher. (obviously those with base 100 HP don't have a choice)

Rhyperior comes in on a bulk up Blaziken, for example, and takes no entry hazard damage. As Blaziken switches, it sets up subsitute and recovers HP from lefties. If Rhyperior's subs get broken every turn, he will have been able to set up a total of 6 subs before fainting. A pokemon with 404 HP would only get five.

Sometimes the extra HP could make all the difference in getting you one more sub. If you have EVs to spare, it could help you a lot.

On another note, there's something else I'd like to bring up. A few points, so bear with me.


  1. Cleric Blissey should always have Heal Bell on the main sets as a viable alternative. If you don't have any soundproof pokemon, Heal Bell is better due to a situational tiebreaker: if your opponent snatches it and has a soundproof pokemon on their team, they don't get the full benefit.
  2. any pokemon not using physical attacks should have an attack lowering nature and 0 attack IVs, to minimize the damage taken if confused.
Yeah... that's kind of it. Whatever :P
 

firecape

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/electivire

On Other Options, I believe it should be mentioned for physical sets, Screech is an option that can allow Electivire do more damage to some walls who may want to switch in on him. With Screech, Electivire can do over 50% to Swampert with Earthquake or Cross Chop if he is holding a Life Orb. Against Hippowdon, the Curse set has a chance of being 1HKOed by Ice Punch after switching into Screech, while other sets take at least 73%. Rotom-A can be 2HKOed with Ice Punch or Fire Punch after Screech as well.
I think those are the reasons why, and after you fail to 1HKO you are promptly killed. Also this takes up a moveslot, and the only reason to use Electivire is it hits 13 Types with SE damage, so giving up coverage to allow it to nearly 2HKO things isn't that good. (Sorry if its not my place to post this...)
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/flygon

Fire Blast is used for Skarmory, Forretress, and Bronzong, while Earthquake deals with other Steel-types and ensures that Blissey is 2HKOed.
This is from the Special Life Orb Flygon set. I'm pretty sure that Blissey ran some different EVs at one point, but now it runs Bold 252 Hp / 252 Def, meaning that Earthquake is no longer a 2HKO; it manages 38.7% - 45.5% on all current OU sets.
 
On the Swords Dance set for Infernape, fire punch is listed as the "reliable" option over Flare Blitz. However, due to its low base power, (similar base power gives Dancing Weavile troubles as well) I recommend replacing it on the set with Blaze Kick, a 90% accurate move (not a problem, especially when Fire Blast's 85% accuracy is overlooked, for it is the main fire STAB option on the Nasty Plot set) with 85 base power. This adds up to be 127.5 after STAB, while Fire Punch adds up to 107.5 after STAB.

20 more base power for 10% accuracy seems like a desirable trade, especially when Fire Blast is recommended over Flamethrower in a more extreme Power VS Accuracy debate, and Blaze Kick has no unfavorable other downsides compared with Hi Jump Kick (for the sake of example) or Flare Blitz. And when benefiting from Blaze, that power difference grows even greater, however Flare Blitz doesn't benefit well from Blaze, since the recoil could finish Infernape off.

I'd also recommend adding Slack off to Other Options. Its main use would be to recover off Life Orb/Flare Blitz/Entry Hazard/Weather damage, as well as damage Infernape would have taken switching in. However, I do not recommend it to be paired with Close Combat for obvious reasons.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I wouldn't be comfortable switching to an imperfectly accurate move until a calculation proved it was necessary. Missing blows.