Arghonaut Analysis

Status
Not open for further replies.
#26
I think that Brick Break shouldn't be an option on the recover tank. What does it hit? A reliable OHKO on Tyranitar is nice, but it can't do jack to you and nor does it hit bulky waters hard enough. Waterfall/Stone Edge coverage is enough and isn't really enhanced by Brick Break.

Mach Punch, Revenge and Roar should be the options for that slot. Mach Punch allows you to stop Stratagem as well as basically doing the same job against DDtar (you take one hit in any scenario where it DDs on the switch, regardless of move). Revenge should be the "power" attack and Roar just helps with random stuff like Gyara and Mence and scouts in general.
 
#28
[SET]
name: Recover Tank
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Brick Break / Revenge
move 3: Stone Edge / Ice Punch
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Arghonaut has all the qualities of a fantastic defensive Pokemon: a good defensive typing, great bulkiness and an instant recovery move. This set can switch into even such ridiculous offensive threats as Dragon Dance Salamence and Swords Dance Lucario and not be threatened with death, thanks to its amazing ability, Unaware.</p>

<p>Waterfall is your strongest, most reliable STAB move. Brick Break is also STAB and it hits Tyranitar and Lucario hard; (but-remove) Revenge is a good though less reliable option for its doubled power when attacked first. Stone Edge is a powerful move that hits both Salamence and Gyarados for consistent damage, but you may want to use Ice Punch if you’re afraid of not OHKOing Salamence (well, does it OHKO or not?). Toxic can also go in this slot, especially useful for Zapdos switch ins. (if you want a general crippling move for things that switch into you-remove).</p>

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Stone Edge/Thunder Punch
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Arghonaut possesses, in addition to its great defenses and good resistances, 110 base Attack and (a stat-up) move in Bulk Up; this set takes advantage of its offensive prowess. (You switch into a Pokemon that doesn’t threaten Arghonaut and begin to Bulk Up. When you run low on health, you can use Rest to bring Arghonaut Back to health-obviously). This set is recommended for late-game, as being asleep for two turns can leave you very vulnerable to powerful special attackers like Starmie (is powerful?) or Rotom-a.</p>

<p>Since Bulk Up boosts Arghonaut’s Defense, the EVs listed were intended to maximize its special durability. This helps a great deal against Pokemon like Rotom-a and Zapdos; however, if you’re particularly irked by Pokemon like Mamoswine and Lucario, who will hit you really hard with their neutral STAB attacks, you may use the EVs from the Recover Tank set.</p>


[SET]
name: Cronaut
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Bulk Up
move 4: Waterfall
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>ResTalk Bulk Up Arghonaut can be ridiculously threatening if you don’t have a good counter for it. It plays very much like the last set, but it sacrifices type coverage for the ability to continue your strategy even as you Rest.</p>

<p>This set can also be used effectively by Swampert, but Arghonaut has a few advantages over it. While Swampert doesn’t have a nasty Electric weakness to worry about, Arghonaut has a Dark resistance for switching directly into CBTar and a Water resistance for coming in on bulky waters. It also has the ability to set up on boosting foes like Gyarados, Suicune and Revenankh with impunity thanks to Unaware. Finally, it doesn’t have a x4 Grass weakness like Swampert, and it (can-remove) therefore does not have to worry about random Hidden Power Grass users (much better).</p>

[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swagger
move 3: Focus Punch
move 4: Waterfall/Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set may look odd on the surface, however it is highly effective when paired with Paralysis support. (First, bring Arghonaut in on something that can't hurt it, like Tyranitar or Scizor. Then, use Substitute as they switch out.-pretty obvious) Usually the opponent will bring in a counter that hits from the special side. What you do then is use Swagger, boosting their attack and confusing them. However, due to Unaware, the attack boost is ignored (this matters why when they're usually special attackers?). Then, if they broke your Substitute, make another one, or just attack with Focus Punch or Waterfall.</p>

<p>The last slot is mainly for coverage. Water and Fighting STABs are slightly redundant, so you could use Stone Edge in its place to hit Flying-types and Fire-types super-effective.</p>

I haven't tested this set, but I'd like to question how useful Swagger actually is. Confusion isn't that great to begin with, and you won't want to use it on something that could KO you and give you hell with +2 attack after, like Salamence possibly. It's hardly helping you against Rotom/Zapdos either.

[Other Options]

<p>There aren't many other options, since almost everything is covered by Arghonaut's main sets. Yawn is an option to force switches, as is Roar. Taunt could be used to stop other stat-uppers but Unaware ignores the boosts anyway (then don't mention). Punishment is an option to hit Psychic types who try to stat up like Slowbro (is UU, why mention) or Azelf, or to hit stat-uppers in general, since it still gets the power boost even with Unaware (Nasty Plot Azelf isn't very common anymore though, and I can't think of any other psychic/ghosts to worry about). Psych Up is an option to abuse Unaware by stealing the opponent's stat boosts and using it against them, while their stat boosts don't affect you. Psych Up also works nicely in tandem with Swagger, since Unaware ignores the stat boost on your opponent but you can still copy the +2 bonus on Attack, leaving you 2 attacks to sweep with(,-remove) while the foe is still confused.
Dive could be used to PP stall your opponent. Similarly, Protect can be used to stall out opponents with Toxic, or force switches with Yawn and scout their next attack. Arghonaut also has 70 SpA and Hydro Pump(, which-remove) can 2HKO the standard Skarmory with minimum SpA investment and a Life Orb, though it’s not very useful for much else. Finally, you could try to throw together a gimmicky Choice set, but be advised that mediocre offensive stats hurt it, since STAB Waterfall from Choice Band Arghonaut sometimes fails to OHKO the standard Fidgit (more like mediocre attacks, Snorlax makes out fine with his 110 Attack).</p>

[EVs]

<p>For most sets, you should max HP, and invest in either of the defenses, depending on whether or not you are using Bulk Up. 36 Atk, 220 Def Adamant will get you an extra point in Attack over using 120 Atk, 136 Def Impish (important?). On more offensive sets, you should invest more in Attack, possibly with some speed to outspeed key threats (elaborate a little?).</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Arghonaut is one of the sturdiest Pokemon around, with key resists to common attacks, instant recovery and a very reasonable 110 Attack. It’s also the only Pokemon other than Bibarel with the ability Unaware(, which ignores the opponent’s stat boosts except for Speed-remove). This forces Pokemon to rely on unboosted attacks to bring it down, which makes Arghonaut ridiculously hard to kill. Stall and balanced teams will enjoy Arghonaut’s durability and offensive teams will benefit from its ability to force switches and its reasonable offensive prowess. Whatever type of team you’re using, Arghonaut is a great choice for a Pokemon.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Zapdos is an obvious response to most Arghonaut, as Thunderbolt will easily 2HKO. However, even Zapdos has to be aware of Stone Edge and Ice Punch, which deal a relatively large amount of damage. The Rotom Appliances can wreak havoc with a diverse movepool consisting of Thunderbolt, Will-o-Wisp, Trick, Charge Beam, and Reflect, all of which can hinder Arghonaut's capabilities greatly. Celebi can 2HKO most Arghonaut that do not run any SpD with Grass Knot, even without any SpA investment. Likewise, Jirachi can 2HKO Arghonaut who do not run SpD EVs with Psychic. Modest Togekiss can also 2HKO Arghonaut with Air Slash, so be sure to watch out for that. Also, Life Orb Starmie is able to 2HKO any Arghonaut with Psychic and Thunderbolt. Starmie can also Recover any damage that is taken from Arghonaut, although Thunder(space)Punch will 2HKO it. However, non-Life Orb variants cannot 2HKO Careful Arghonaut. Stratagem can come in on weakened Arghonaut and kill with Technician Giga Drain, which 2HKOs while still recovering it's health in the process. CB Jolly Staraptor will always OHKO Arghonaut, even when it runs max HP and Defense.</p>

<p>Trick is definitely something to watch out for when using more defensive Arghonauts such as Restalking ones. Zen Headbutt Jirachi is also something to watch out for, as it is usually a 3HKO to most Arghonauts along with an annoying 40% flinch rate, and can shrug off damage using Wish. Life Orb Adamant Metagross OHKOs Arghonaut with Zen Headbutt, and many other Metagross also carry Trick. Without Life Orb, Zen Headbutt is still an obvious 2HKO. Adamant CB Salamence can 2HKO any Arghonaut with Outrage even after a Bulk Up, provided they do not run too much Defense.</p>

<p>Bulky Water-types in general are good responses to sweeper Arghonauts. For example, Vaporeon can Toxic-stall Arghonaut with Wish and Protect (probably doesn't have Protect then), shrugging off any damage that was done to it. Suicune with HP Electric is able to wall and kill Arghonaut provided they do not run ThunderPunch. However, even bulky waters have to watch out for the occasional Toxic if they cannot Rest it off.</p>
A bit lengthy with relatively obvious "2HKOs" all over the place...

This is done.
Did what I could
 

tennisace

cardiac cats
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Administrator
#29
No offense, but a lot of your changes are wrong. ThunderPunch is the correct spelling for one, and Toxi-stall is a legit abbreviation.

As for the Swagger set, I have tested it extensively, Caelum and I can attest to the fact that it does work.
 
#31
My bad, I looked on serebii and it's Thunderpunch actually, and wasn't aware of toxi-stall, but you did forget the dash
edit: or is serebii wrong ?_?
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
#34
Tennis asked for someone to grammar check this. Corrections in bold, comments underlined.

[SET]
name: Recover Tank
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Brick Break / Revenge
move 3: Stone Edge / Ice Punch
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Arghonaut has all the qualities of a fantastic defensive Pokemon: a good defensive typing, great bulkiness, and an instant recovery move. This set can even switch into ridiculous offensive threats such as Dragon Dance Salamence and Swords Dance Lucario without significant risk thanks to Unaware. (sounds better)</p>

<p>Waterfall is your strongest, most reliable STAB move. Brick Break also gets STAB and it hits Tyranitar and Lucario hard, but Revenge is also a good option, as it has 120 base power if Arghonaut get hit first. Stone Edge is a powerful move that hits both Salamence and Gyarados for consistent damage, but you may want to use Ice Punch if you’re afraid of not OHKOing Salamence. Toxic can also go in this slot if you want a generally crippling move for things that switch into you.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Stone Edge/ThunderPunch
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Arghonaut possesses, in addition to great defenses and good resistances, 110 base Attack and a stat-up move in Bulk Up. This set takes advantage of its offensive prowess. You switch into a Pokemon that doesn’t threaten Arghonaut and begin to Bulk Up. When you run low on health, you can use Rest to bring Arghonaut back to health. This set is recommended for late-game, as being asleep for two turns can leave you very vulnerable to powerful special attackers like Starmie or Rotom-a.</p>

<p>Since (reduces repetition) Bulk Up boosts Arghonaut’s Defense, the EVs listed maximize its special durability. This helps a great deal against Pokemon like Rotom-a and Zapdos. However, if you’re particularly irked by Pokemon like Mamoswine and Lucario, which will hit you really hard with their neutral STAB attacks, you may use the EVs from the Recover Tank set.</p>


[SET]
name: Cronaut (Do people actually call it this?)
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Bulk Up
move 4: Waterfall
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>RestTalk Bulk Up Arghonaut can be ridiculously threatening if you don’t have a Pokemon like Celebi or Vaporeon around to stop it. It plays very much like the last set, but it sacrifices type coverage for the ability to continue its strategy even as it Rests.</p>

<p>This set is obviously taking a page out of Swampert’s book, but Arghonaut has a few advantages over the mudfish. While Swampert doesn’t have a nasty Electric weakness to worry about, Arghonaut has a Dark resistance for switching directly into Choice Band Tyranitar and a Water resistance for coming in on bulky Waters. It also has the ability to set up on boosting foes like Gyarados, Suicune, and Revenankh with impunity thanks to Unaware. Finally, it doesn’t have a x4 Grass weakness like Swampert, and it can therefore deal with random Hidden Power Grass users much better.</p>

[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swagger
move 3: Focus Punch
move 4: Waterfall/Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set may look odd on the surface, but it is highly effective when paired with paralysis support. First, bring Arghonaut in on something that can't hurt it, like Tyranitar or Scizor. Then, use Substitute as they switch out. Usually the opponent will bring in a counter that hits from the special side. What you do then is use Swagger, boosting their Attack and confusing them. However, due to Unaware, the Attack boost is ignored when they attack Arghonaut, but it remains when they hit themselves in confusion (added another beneficial effect). Then, if they broke your Substitute, make another one, or just attack with Focus Punch or Waterfall.</p>

<p>The last slot is mainly for coverage. Water and Fighting STABs are slightly redundant, so you could use Stone Edge in its place to hit Flying-types and Fire-types super effectively.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>There aren't many other options, since almost everything is covered by Arghonaut's main sets. Yawn is an option to force switches, as is Roar. Taunt could be used to stop other stat-uppers but Unaware ignores the boosts anyway; however, it supports the team well. Punishment is an option to hit Psychic-types that try to stat up, such as Slowbro or Azelf, or stat-uppers in general, since Punishment still gets the power boost even with Unaware. Psych Up is an option to abuse Unaware by stealing the opponent's stat boosts and using the boosts against them, while their stat boosts don't affect Arghonaut. Psych Up also works nicely in tandem with Swagger, since Unaware ignores the stat boost on your opponent but you can still copy the +2 bonus on Attack, leaving you 2 attacks to sweep with, while the foe is still confused. Dive could be used to PP stall your opponent. Similarly, Protect can be used to stall out opponents with Toxic, or to force switches with Yawn and scout their next attack. Arghonaut also has 70 SpA and Hydro Pump, which can 2HKO the standard Skarmory with minimum SpA investment and a Life Orb, though it’s not very useful for much else. Finally, you could try to throw together a gimmicky Choice set, but be advised that mediocre offensive stats hurt it, since STAB Waterfall from Choice Band Arghonaut sometimes fails to OHKO the standard Fidgit.</p>

[EVs]

<p>For most sets, you should max HP, and invest in either of the defenses, depending on whether or not you are using Bulk Up. 36 Atk / 220 Def Adamant is recommended because it will get you an extra point in Attack compared to using 120 Atk / 136 Def Impish. On more offensive sets, you should invest more in Attack, possibly with some speed to outspeed key threats.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Arghonaut is one of the sturdiest Pokemon around, with key resistances to common attacks, instant recovery, and a very reasonable 110 Attack. It’s also the only Pokemon other than Bibarel with the ability Unaware, which essentially ignores the opponent’s stat boosts except for Speed. This forces Pokemon to rely on unboosted attacks to bring it down, which makes Arghonaut ridiculously hard to kill. Stall and balanced teams will enjoy Arghonaut’s tendency to not die to anything and offensive teams will benefit from its ability to force switches and its reasonable offensive prowess. Whatever type of team you’re using, Arghonaut is a great choice.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Zapdos is an obvious response to most Arghonaut, as Thunderbolt will easily 2HKO. However, even Zapdos has to beware of Stone Edge and Ice Punch, which deal relatively large amounts of damage. The Rotom Appliances can wreak havoc with a diverse movepool consisting of Thunderbolt, Will-O-Wisp, Trick, Charge Beam, and Reflect, all of which can hinder Arghonaut's capabilities greatly. Celebi can 2HKO most Arghonaut that do not run any SpD with Grass Knot, even without any SpA investment. Likewise, Jirachi can 2HKO Arghonaut that do not run SpD EVs with Psychic. Modest Togekiss can also 2HKO Arghonaut with Air Slash, so be sure to watch out for that. Also, Life Orb Starmie is able to 2HKO any Arghonaut with Psychic and Thunderbolt and Recover any damage that is taken, although ThunderPunch will 2HKO it. However, non-Life Orb variants cannot 2HKO Careful Arghonaut. Stratagem can come in on weakened Arghonaut and kill with Technician Giga Drain, which 2HKOs while still recovering health in the process. CB Jolly Staraptor will always OHKO Arghonaut, even when Arghonaut runs max HP and Defense.</p>

<p>Trick is definitely something to watch out for when using more defensive Arghonaut such as Restalking ones. Zen Headbutt Jirachi is also something to watch out for, as Zen Headbutt is usually a 3HKO to most Arghonaut and has an annoying 40% flinch rate, and can shrug off damage using Wish. Life Orb Adamant Metagross OHKOs Arghonaut with Zen Headbutt, and many other Metagross carry Trick. Without Life Orb, Zen Headbutt is still an obvious 2HKO. Adamant Choice Band Salamence can 2HKO any Arghonaut with Outrage even after a Bulk Up, provided they do not run too much Defense.</p>

<p>Bulky Water-types in general are good responses to sweeper Arghonaut. For example, Vaporeon can Toxistall Arghonaut with Wish and Protect, shrugging off any damage that is done to it. Suicune with Hidden Power Electric is able to wall and kill Arghonaut provided Arghonaut does not run ThunderPunch. However, even bulky Waters have to watch out for the occasional Toxic if they cannot Rest it off.</p>

This is done.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.