CAP 6 Arghonaut Playtesting

#52
I finally got a chance to test Arghonaut today, and Im impressed. The set Ive had the most success with has been:

Arghonaut (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Roar
- Waterfall
- Mach Punch
---

Think skarm, zaporeon, and particularly steelix in UU. These pokemon make good roarers because they can switch in on a number of highly used pokemon and wall them so utterly that the opponent is almost guarenteed to switch out, or do an extra 10% net damage with their resisted moves. Take the example of Vaporeon, who can easily switch in on and wall just about any heatran... scarfed, specsed, sub, etc. With SR up, roar is on average going to do a hell of a lot more damage to your opponents team than if you had just surfed into their blissey. Ive tested roar vaporeon before and it gets to the point where you can just blindly switch in to heatran and roar every time, while occasionally wishing. The only thing I end up needing surf for is those weird situations where vaporeon has to try and beat something 1v1.

Anyway, the point is that Argho, like vaporeon, walls the shit out of some pokes. Some of the most highly used ones, in fact. This set hardly even needs attacks; just pack it alongside a stealth rocker and a rotom and switch it into tyranitars, its that irresistible. Plus, it has the advantage of not caring about the stat ups it phazes, unlike those other roarers I mentioned who have trouble taking bosted attacks. (damn you infernape)

The ev spread isnt anything special. I figured hed need it to take power whips a from rev and such. The real magic of this set comes from the move roar. If anyone could suggest an ev spread that hits a magic number, like 2hkoing strata with mach punch, that would be nice.
 

Plus

is a Tutoris a Community Leaderis a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Professor of B101
#53
I'm seeing a shitload of bulk up Arghonauts in the CaP ladder, and I am pleased that CBmence can still 2hko an Argho with one Bulk Up.
 

Bobtheball4

CAP Playtesting Expert
#54
Well, I faced the Stockpile set of Arghonaut the other day -- it was a beast. It took out my team easily, due to the fact that it could just shrug off any damage with Recover, then set up. As a result, Arghonaut was able to Waterfall and or Toxic it to death. To deal with this Arghonaut, I decided to run something totally different because Lunar Fang wanted me to test out something. I used a Bronzong which packed Psychic/Block/Calm Mind/Rest, which walls it pretty well. Block Arghonaut while it sets up, then Calm Mind in front of Argho. Rest off any damage done to Bronzong, and spam Psychic, although the CMs will not kick in until you PP stall Argho thoroughly. Since Zong has more PP than most Arghonauts, your opponent will be screwed with a +6 CM Bronzong.
 
#55
Yeah, pretty much the only way the Stockpile Argh (I call him the piledriver) can be stopped is wall it so it struggles to death (Celebi and Bronzong work well here) or flinch hax it with Jirachi or Kiss. I guess you could also phaze or haze it, but you risk being toxic'd.

Also I gotta start running a haze crobat in case of walls setting up on my argh.
 

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
#56
Hasn't it occurred to anybody that you can just status Stockpile Argho to an early demise? ._. Trick is also pretty good for crippling it.

Not to mention that it's still possibly to offensively overcome Stockpile Arghonaut if you have a strong enough SE hit.
 
#57
I did say that status, Toxic especially, as well as critical hits can destroy Arghonaut. But, just like Revenankh, if you're unprepared, it will wall you into oblivion.
 

Plus

is a Tutoris a Community Leaderis a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Professor of B101
#58
It's true that stockpile Arghonaut will wall you if you're not prepared. Heck, that can be said for any team who isn't prepared for a pokemon. If i ran 6 pokemon with fighting weaknesses with speed below 108, you obviously know your team isn't prepared for ape.

What matters is, however, is how hard it is to prepare for something.

Bulky waters are relatively easy to put on teams. So are statusers, and trick users. If your team isn't prepared for it, too bad. Your team should have been prepared for it. It isn't even that hard to prepare for it.
 
#59
It can hit Vaporeon back with Toxic, as well as a lot of other bulky waters. The only problem with Bulky Waters that I've run into is Restalk Crocune. Thunderpunch and HP Grass are there too if you're worried about those.

This isn't meant to be the most used set, nor the best defensive set, but it has really helped end sweeps for me. The already bulky defenses, plus boosts, along with unaware, can stop most sweepers cold. The problems that you guys have mentioned are primarily with either support or other defensive Pokemon, as well as gimmicks, and those are definitely not the sweepers that Stockpile Arghonaut helps to keep in check.
 
#60
I just tested this set, and it actually works! It really surprised my opponent.

Name:SpecsNaut
Arghonaut @ Choice Specs
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 SP. Atk/ 4 Spe
Modest Nature
Surf
Ice Beam
HP-Electric
Sludge Bomb
 

tennisace

cardiac cats
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Administrator
#61
That's a gimmick, plain and simple. 70 Special attack/75 Speed is shit no matter how you cut it, and it's not even like Specs Fidgit, who has 90 Special Attack and 105 Speed and STILL fails to KO key threats. That's not even other options material really.
 

Bobtheball4

CAP Playtesting Expert
#62
ya, on my gimmickteams, i wouldnt specs that >_> i only scarf/specs a pokemon if the other stat is good... like on scarf rev, that brings it up to about 340, but it also has a good atk to go along with it so it has a chance to sweep.
 
#63
I would at least run Superpower/Cross Chop and destroy any cocky Blissey that thinks they have rumbled you as well as maybe OHKOing Snorlax and ttar
 
#64
I'm using a Swagger/Psych Up set, originally with Punishment and Revenge. Punishment also nicely working with Swagger and the Dark/Fighting combo being pretty much unresisted. Only problem is that Punishment doesn't give base power on the next pokemon, only on the first pokemon I set up on. So I'm testing out Ice Punch/Thunderpunch alongside Swagger/Psych Up. It does work nicely, especially against pokemons who already started doing power ups (the reason why you're switching in Argho in the first place).
 
#65
That's a gimmick, plain and simple. 70 Special attack/75 Speed is shit no matter how you cut it, and it's not even like Specs Fidgit, who has 90 Special Attack and 105 Speed and STILL fails to KO key threats. That's not even other options material really.
No, this set actually works. I was just in a battle with it, down 6-4, and 6 turns later, I had won 4-0.
 

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
#66
No, this set actually works. I was just in a battle with it, down 6-4, and 6 turns later, I had won 4-0.
It worked because your opponent wasn't expecting it/was pretty dang bad. I'd bet some combination of the two.

Not to mention that Choice Arghonaut is just misuse of Arghonaut's potential.
 
#67
No, this set actually works. I was just in a battle with it, down 6-4, and 6 turns later, I had won 4-0.
Just because you manage to beat someone with it, doesn't mean that it's good or will actually work most of the time. You're able to do much less damage than you can with a Bulk Up or Choice Band set, and have less survivability than you would if you had run Leftovers and Recover. It's also more solidly walled by things like Zapdos and Celebi, being able to do less potential damage to them than it could otherwise. It may take people by surprise, but Arghonaut has better things to be doing and there are Pokemon that can run Choice Specs much better.
 

Bobtheball4

CAP Playtesting Expert
#68
well, that person you battled was probably a person whos never been to CaP, since ive 6-0d someone with specs fidgit with only using sludge bomb. He eventually started getting angry and just left.
 
#69
Purely theorymoning here (though I will test the set soon!), but I think an LO Bulk Up set has some potential.


name: Offensive Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Aqua Jet? / Waterfall?
move 4: Brick Break / ThunderPunch
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 32 HP / 208 Atk / 16 Def / 252 Spe

If this works for stuff like Suicune I don't see why it can't work for Arghonaut. Base 75 Speed is unfortunate, but Arghonaut gets priority so it's not all bad. Aqua Jet isn't necessary but it helps get the KO on things like Timid Zapdos. It doesn't really help much against frail sweepers though (after a Bulk Up, all its 2HKOes are OHKOes for Waterfall. See Gengar, Azelf, etc.)

The premise of the set is simple. Come in on something that can't hurt you like Blissey or Tyranitar, and Bulk Up turn one. Attack whatever comes in if you can hit it SE/if it's frail.

Ice Punch is pretty mandatory as it helps you beat Celebi and Zapdos (and Salamence). You outspeed and 2HKO Bold Celebi and Zapdos after a Bulk Up, while neither OHKO with Grass Knot/Thunderbolt respectively (However Zapdos will most likely put you into the range where LO recoil will kill you on the second attack). You can OHKO Timid Zapdos (who outspeeds you) with Ice Punch 100% of the time if SR is down. If not, then you can finish it off next turn with Aqua Jet (if you choose to run it).

The choice between Aqua Jet and Waterfall is tricky. Aqua Jet will let you finish off pokemon who are faster than you like Zapdos. However it doesn't have any merit against fast, frail pokemon as its still weak even against them.

A similar choice is with Brick Break and ThunderPunch. Brick Break lets you hit Tyranitar hard if you forego Aqua Jet, and is a harder-hitting move in general. ThunderPunch has better coverage (it hits Starmie and Slowbro who are hit NVE by every other move) and makes battles against Gyara and bulky Waters in general easier. As a note, after a Bulk Up you 2HKO Slowbro almost 99.41% of the time (though you must be wary as it can Thunder Wave you). You also do 40.10% - 47.34% to a 252/136 Impish Arghonaut, meaning you should beat every version of Argho except ones with Recover. ThunderPunch without Waterfall means you'll have a hard time against Tyranitar however, so its suggested that you pair Aqua Jet with Brick Break and Waterfall with ThunderPunch.

blah I wanted to get this up I'll get the rest in soon

EDIT- What a waste of a .5K post though V__V
 
#70
I know I don't post around here much but hopefully my opinion is still valid!

I honestly have not had any problem with Stockpilers. I played against a couple and did fine. Of course, it might be partly because I have Encore Fidgit, Leech Seed Celebi, Zen Headbutt Jirachi, and also a Haze Tentacruel at one point. I had my own Arghonaut as well but that doesn't really do anything to stop theirs (I don't use Thunderpunch) besides being Unaware.

If you have like 1 or 2 of those on your team, which you probably would anyway (also Revenankh works), I don't think you would have any problem with Stockpile Arghonaut. I haven't had too much of a problem against any of them actually unless I'm like down to Celebi and Fidgit and both are at 30% or so but then obviously I could lose to anything.
 

tennisace

cardiac cats
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Administrator
#71
EM I've tried it and it's pretty much a waste. I would have included it in the analysis but it's not even good enough for it.
 
#72
name: AAARGH, move it!
move 1: Roar
move 2: Recover
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Body Slam
item: leftovers
nature: impish
evs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpDef



Argh makes an awesome roar user - ignoring the foe's boosts & then sending the opponent them packing makes him a great team player; even when it's on stuff he shouldn't really be in on. (I've even used him for phazing CM Cressys and CM Raikous that have gotten out of control... his bulk is awesome)
But a move that's definitely interesting for the Argh'ster is Body Slam. Argh generally causes whatever he comes in on to switch out, so doing (usually) unresisted damage WITH a delicious chance of paralysis can really cripple his counters. Couple this with waterfall, and you may end up paraflinching your foes to death later in the game.