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Aron (Analysis) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jukain, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    I know I'm posting more than usual in a C&C thread but I like gimmicks like Aron

    Anyway, on top of HP Steel as the fourth mve, Toxic Spikes support should also be added to Additional Comments, because it allows you to KO Dugtrio, Garchomp*, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Terrakion, and Tyranitar. It also lets you cripple Breloom, Cloyster, Haxorus, Kyurem-B, and Jellicent. Forretress and Tentacruel both get it and they're both options for spinners (although Tentacruel on a Sand team is strange), so it's not hard to fit into the team.

    *After hitting Garchomp / Ferro with Endeavor, the order of passive effects is ability --> Rocky Helmet --> Shell Bell, so these Pokemon cannot switch in on Aron.
  2. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
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    This is rather trivial, but wouldn't hidden power flying be better than steel to hit Shedinja outside of sand?
  3. Spirit

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    Shedinja isn't even a threat. Moreover, why would you use aron outside of sand?
  4. Woodchuck

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    I understand that the situation is rare, but there is literally no reason to use Hidden Power Steel over Hidden Power Flying.
  5. Lavos Spawn

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    hidden power rock is best

    actually any hidden power that has no immunities and hits shedinja will do the trick but aron's a rock-type :)!
  6. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    qc time~
  7. PK Gaming

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    If we're going to use max Speed, we should use a +Speed nature to tie with opposing Arons. There's also no point in using attack EVs if Hidden Power Rock is our attack main option, and the AC comment about killing 40 HP Tyranitar needs to be changed as well. What do you think about adding Sandstorm to AC? It's a pretty situational move, but it could help you against Politoed / Ninetales / Abomasnow switch ins.

    EDIT:
    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  8. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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  9. breh

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    Out of curiosity, why is HP rock being used over roar, which Shrang mentioned earlier in this thread?
  10. BKC

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    aron is good. i've used it myself a fair bit and it's definitely effective. i hate to even call it a gimmick...

    qc approved 2/3
  11. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    forgot roar's ac mention so added it~

    thanks guys for the checks, I'll write this...uh idk sometime soonish
  12. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    I'm not done writing quite yet, but I'd like some feedback on what's currently done because I wrote the set comments in a different manner than usual, as the moves themselves don't really require that much explanation while using Aron definitely does, especially for inexperienced players. However, this definitely deviates from the norm, so I'd like to ensure this is acceptable.
  13. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    this is written :)
  14. ginganinja

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    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  15. tehy

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    Just reading the overview, I feel like Ghost-types need a mention. They completely demolish aron-gengar especially, as it is immune to Toxic. I'm aware you mention it right at the start of the set comments, but such a full stop definitely deserves a mention.

    Max Special Attack would help for mirror matches, and in the same vein, 4 SpD EVs. It also lets you mess up your mirror on the switch-in. If all of your other Aron counters are dead, it'd be helpful to have this on tap, and if your aron>theirs, you can get the switch advantage on the next Pokémon.

    In OO, why not mention TR support? That gives Aron a few turns of outspeeding basically everything. And if you've got it up, it can switch in on an attack or with hazards up! Although any priority move wastes it, since it starts the turn with 1 hp. And it's basically cooked after TR leaves. (Unless it can be gotten up again and you can get a safe switch-in. Hard to do, although Zong might be able to pull it off with Explosion.)

    If forry's a mentioned partner, might as well mention it can spin for Aron too, right? And... it slow volt switches it in! Perfect! Also, Tenta can T-spike and spin, although TBF it doesn't function well in sand.

    Finally, a couple short sentences that could be fused here.

    Edit: So.... you just going to ignore this post in its entirety, then?

    Good to hear.

    I also like how most of this post has been implemented, so it's not even like the suggestions were bad.
  16. Oglemi

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    the set name should be Endeavor (Level 1)

    makes it easier for honko to add it to the damage calc and this isn't technically the "FEAR" set though it's basically the strategy so idk but i'd rather we just call it Endeavor but regardless the (Level 1) in parentheses is what's important
  17. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    done oglemi, this is ready for gp
  18. GatoDelFuego

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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

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    [Overview]

    <p>While using an NFE not named Chansey in OU might seem odd, especially one with such pitiful stats as Aron, Aron has quite a bit going for it. It succeeds where all other FEAR users have failed in the past, which is mainly due to its immunities to Toxic and sandstorm. This means that unlike Pokemon such as Cottonee and the classic Rattata, Aron cannot be worn down through most common forms of residual damage. It actually thrives in sand, as sandstorm damage can finish off Pokemon after they take an Endeavor, which mitigates Aron's lack of access to priority. After Aron is hit by an attack, which will always activate bring it into Sturdy range due to it being run at level 1, it can use Endeavor to bring the foe down to 1 HP that number of health. Aron's Shell Bell then heals it back up to full HP, creating an endless cycle of death.</p>

    <p>However, Aron does have its flaws. First off, most opponents know exactly what Aron does, so they can play around it. Aron's most major downfall is its vulnerability to entry hazards; if they are on the field, Aron cannot switch in lest its beloved Sturdy be broken. Additionally, it is affected by burn, Leech Seed, Encore, and Perish Song, not to mention that multi-hit moves that ignore Sturdy. Furthermore, Aron flat-out fails against stall and even some balance teams, as they always carry at least one or two of the aforementioned ways of defeating Aron. However, offensive teams generally have a difficult time against it; these teams are the most common, so Aron finds use in most battles. Overall, despite its numerous downfalls, Aron is definitely a decent choice for any team, so long as you are willing to provide it with the support it requires.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Endeavor (Level 1)
    move 1: Endeavor
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Hidden Power Rock
    item: Shell Bell
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Aron isn't that difficult to use, but there are a few steps you must take for it to succeed. During the Team Preview, look over your opponent's team. If he or she lacks a Ghost-type or a Pokemon that can inflict burn, then Aron has the upper hand. However, if the opponent does, these Pokemon and others that can stop Aron, such as users of Perish Song, Encore, and multi-hit attacks, must be removed. Once the game starts and these issues are dealt with, the next step is getting Aron in, which isn't actually that easy. If there are entry hazards on the field, make sure they are gone before you bring in Aron, as they would break its Sturdy and thus render it completely useless. Aron also has to come in completely unscathed, so you must be sure to utilize smart double switches and U-turn and Volt Switch; the only other option is to bring it in after one of Aron's teammates faints. An interesting option is to use a kamikaze Explosion and then bring it in.</p>

    <p>Once Aron is in play, you are pretty much guaranteed one kill. Any attack will bring Aron down to Sturdy range, so the best move is to respond with Endeavor, after which Shell Bell will bring it back to full health. If the foe doesn't attack, you have a few options. This is where the other moves come into play. If the foe doesn't carry Leftovers, Protect is an excellent choice, as sandstorm damage will finish off these foes, assuming they are affected by the weather. If the foe isn't affected by sandstorm or is a Ghost-type, using Toxic is the best modus operandi, as this will wear said foe down. Although Aron itself might not be able to complete the job, a teammate should be able to. Hidden Power Rock is for cases where the foe is immune to sandstorm damage and Toxic yet is sitting at 1 HP. Hidden Power Rock is chosen because every attack will do exactly two damage to a level 100 Pokemon regardless of its Base Power, and it ignores contact abilities can hit Shedinja So does sandstorm. If the foe is immune to Toxic and sandstorm and carries Leftovers, Aron just will not be able to kill it, but it will still be in an incredibly low range of health. Sometimes, however, you don't have to deal with any of this due to the foe being unprepared for Aron and can just spam Endeavor along with possibly Protect to win the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment is run to ensure opposing Aron and other FEAR Pokemon don't outspeed Aron. Any more EVs would be complete waste. In the realm of attacks, Stealth Rock is a decent support option, as every team needs the entry hazard, though Aron is not the most reliable setter of it. However, it gives Aron something to do against Pokemon it has no hope of overcoming. Sandstorm is an interesting choice, allowing Aron to support itself a bit more, though this isn't the recommended way of using the move; instead, it should be used as opposing weather inducers, such as Politoed and Ninetales, switch in. The final possibility is Roar, which can shuffle out threatening Pokemon as they switch in, often enabling Aron to get off a free Endeavor.</p>

    <p>When using Aron, there are two types of support that are mandatory: sand and Rapid Spin. For the sand inducer, either Tyranitar or Hippowdon works, but Tyranitar is best suited for the offensive teams Aron is generally found on. Additionally, it can Pursuit trap Ghost-types, which are major threats to Aron. Rapid Spin support can be provided by Starmie, OU's best offensive spinner; it also happens to be able to handle Skarmory, which stops Aron in its tracks. Toxic Spikes support isn't necessary, but it can be very useful if you don't want to waste time using Toxic. Forretress is generally the best Pokemon for this, as it can Rapid Spin as well. Other than these few requirements, there isn't much else that Aron needs; there are some teams it will always utterly fail against and other that it will flat-out sweep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Using any set other than the one listed will cause you to be the laughingstock of the OU ladder. Don't even think about it.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As a start, any weather other than sand renders Aron completely useless. Without the additional damage sandstorm provides, Aron is unable to actually kill its foes. Ghost-types, such as Jellicent, Gengar, and Sableye, are unaffected by Endeavor and thus are perfect counters to it. All that Aron can do return is use Toxic, but Gengar is immune to it too. Additionally, Jellicent and Sableye in addition to Rotom-W can burn Aron; because Aron is not immune to burn, it is immediately crippled for the duration of the match. Because Aron is affected by Leech Seed, Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Jumpluff can also stop Aron. Entry hazards also render Aron completely useless, as they break its beloved Sturdy, which means it can't take a hit before it uses Endeavor.</p>

    <p>Defensive Pokemon that are immune to Toxic and have some sort of recovery option, such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory, are hard stops to Aron. Poison Heal Gliscor is especially effective, as its ability heals it up after the Endeavor; it is also immune to Toxic and sandstorm. Pokemon that carry multi-hit attacks, such as Breloom and Cloyster, can ignore Sturdy and kill Aron. Pokemon with the ability Mold Breaker or Teravolt work in a similar vein. Garchomp and Ferrothorn, which have the abilities Rough Skin and Iron Barbs respectively, can check Aron; although they pretty much have to sacrifice themselves to do so, their abilities can finish off Aron after it uses Endeavor. Finally, having unrelenting offensive pressure means Aron cannot switch in, so if you somehow lack any of the aforementioned Pokemon, playing well can get you around it.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]

    Also, sorry if this is past QC and all, but shouldn't Aron be at the highest level possible? Calculated to always reach 1HP from OU's weakest attack with minimum HP, Defense, and Special Defense investment with maximum offensive investment? That would give it maybe a chance of damaging things immune to sandstorm + toxic, like Skarmory with HP fire or something
  19. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    I didn't make this exact change (a slightly different one instead) because it messes with the actual meaning of the sentence. All multi-hit moves ignore Sturdy, so implying that any don't is misleading.

    In any case, thanks Gato; this is ready for the last check!
  20. superstar

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    The last sentence of the intro is somewhat misleading imo, Aron certainly isn't a decent choice for just any team, you can't just slap it on.

    Maybe change it from "Overall, despite its numerous downfalls, Aron is definitely a decent choice for any team, so long as you are willing to provide the support it requires"

    To, "Overall, despite its numerous downfalls, Aron can perform well on a team that provides the support it requires."
  21. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    The new version doesn't change the meaning of the sentence at all; it's certainly a decent choice if you provide the needed support. "perform well" === "decent choice" in my book.
  22. Explorer

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    Would giving Aron 252 SpA EVs help too, just in case...still I don't see why not to add them, as long as Aron uses the HP Rock.
  23. Jukain

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    Actually, they would help in (admittedly rare) matchups against other Aron. I'll add them, though they don't help against level 100 Pokemon at all.
  24. relaunched

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    additions deletions comments

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    <p>While using an NFE not named Chansey in OU might seem odd, especially one with such pitiful stats as Aron, Aron has quite a bit going for it. It succeeds where all other FEAR users have failed in the past, which is mainly due to its immunities to Toxic and sandstorm. This means that unlike Pokemon such as Cottonee and the classic Rattata, Aron cannot be worn down through by most common forms of residual damage. It actually thrives in sand, as sandstorm damage can finish finishes off most Pokemon after they take an Endeavor, which mitigates mitigating Aron's lack of access to priority. After Aron is hit by an attack, which will always activate Sturdy due to it being run at as it is level 1, it can use Endeavor to bring the foe down to 1 HP. Aron's Shell Bell then heals it back up to full HP, creating an endless cycle of death.</p>

    <p>However, (RC) Aron does have its flaws. First off, most opponents know exactly what Aron does, so they can play around it. Aron's most major downfall is its vulnerability to entry hazards; if they are on the field, Aron cannot switch in lest its beloved Sturdy be broken. Additionally, it is affected by burn, Leech Seed, Encore, and Perish Song, not to mention multi-hit moves, which ignore Sturdy. Furthermore, Aron flat-out fails against stall and even some balance teams, as they always carry at least one or two of the aforementioned ways of defeating Aron. However, offensive teams generally have a difficult time against it; these teams are the most common, so Aron finds use in most battles. Overall, despite its numerous downfalls, Aron is definitely a decent choice for any team, so long as you are willing to provide the support it requires. (Consider changing the green text to something more imperative like "though you must", to really drive the point home.)</p>

    [SET]
    name: Endeavor (Level 1)
    move 1: Endeavor
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Hidden Power Rock
    item: Shell Bell
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Aron isn't that difficult to use, but there are a few steps you must take for it to succeed. During the Team Preview Before the battle begins, look over your opponent's team. If he or she lacks does not have (added for consistency with the following sentence) a Ghost-type or a Pokemon that can inflict burn, then Aron has the upper hand. However, if the opponent does, these Pokemon and others that can stop Aron, such as users of Perish Song, Encore, and multi-hit attacks, must be removed. Once the game starts As the game progresses and these issues are dealt with, the next step is getting Aron in, which isn't actually that easy. If there are entry hazards on the field, make sure they are gone before you bring in Aron, as they would will break its Sturdy and thus render it completely useless. Aron also has to come in completely unscathed, so you must be sure to utilize smart double switches and, (AC) U-turn and Volt Switch; the only other option is to bring it in after one of Aron's teammates faints. An interesting option way to do this is to use a kamikaze Explosion and then bring it in.</p>

    <p>Once Aron is in play, you are pretty much nearly guaranteed one kill. Any attack will bring Aron down to Sturdy range, so the best move is to respond with Endeavor, after which Shell Bell will bring it back to full health. If the foe doesn't attack, you have a few options. This is where the other moves come into play. If the foe doesn't carry Leftovers, Protect is an excellent choice, as sandstorm damage will finish off these foes off, assuming they are affected by the weather damaged by it. If the foe isn't affected by sandstorm or is a Ghost-type, using Toxic is the best modus operandi, as this will wear said foe down. Although Aron itself might not be able to complete the job, a teammate should be able to. Hidden Power Rock is for cases where the foe is immune to sandstorm damage and Toxic yet is sitting at 1 HP. Hidden Power Rock is chosen because every attack will do exactly two damage to a level 100 Pokemon regardless of its Base Power, and it can hit Shedinja. If the foe is immune to Toxic and sandstorm and carries Leftovers, Aron just will not be able to kill it, but it will still be in an incredibly low range of health though it will come very close. Sometimes, however, you don't have to deal with any of this due to the foe being unprepared for Aron and can just spam Endeavor along with possibly Protect to win the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment is run to ensure opposing Aron and other FEAR Pokemon don't outspeed Aron. Full investment is run in Special Attack is fully invested to give Aron the upper hand in matchups against put it at least on equal footing with other Aron that do not run any Special Attack EVs. In the realm of attacks, Stealth Rock is a decent support option, as every team needs the entry hazard, though Aron is not the most a reliable setter of it. However, it gives Aron something to do against Pokemon it has no hope of overcoming. Sandstorm is an interesting choice, allowing Aron to support itself a bit more, (RC) though this isn't the recommended way of using the move; instead, (RC) it should be used as opposing weather inducers, such as Politoed and Ninetales, switch in. (The latter thing you mentioned is still supporting itself, so you don't need the red portion.) The final possibility is Roar, which can shuffle out threatening Pokemon as they switch in, often enabling Aron to get off a free Endeavor.</p>

    <p>When using Aron, there are two types of support that are mandatory: sand and Rapid Spin. For the sand inducer, either Tyranitar or Hippowdon work, but Tyranitar is best suited for the offensive teams Aron is generally found on. Additionally, it can Pursuit trap the Ghost-types, (RC) which that are major threats to Aron in its tracks. Rapid Spin support can be provided by Starmie, OU's best offensive spinner; it also happens to be able to handle Skarmory, which stops Aron in its tracks another full stop to Aron. ("Major threats" misrepresents what Ghost types do to Aron." Toxic Spikes support isn't necessary, but it can be very useful if you don't want to waste time using Toxic. Forretress is generally the best Pokemon for this, as it can Rapid Spin as well. Other than these few requirements (I wouldn't call it "few", as most Pokemon don't even need one particular partner), there isn't much else that Aron needs; there are some teams it will always utterly fail against and other others that it will flat-out sweep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Using any set other than the one listed will cause you to be the laughingstock of the OU ladder. Don't even think about it.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As a start, any weather other than sand renders Aron completely useless. Without the additional damage sandstorm provides, Aron is unable to actually kill its foes. Ghost-types, such as Jellicent, Gengar, and Sableye, are unaffected by Endeavor and thus are perfect counters to it. All that Aron can do in return is use Toxic, but though Gengar is immune to it too. Jellicent and Sableye in addition to Rotom-W can burn Aron; because Aron is not immune to burn, it is immediately crippled for the duration of the match. Because Aron is affected by Leech Seed, Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Jumpluff can also stop Aron. Entry hazards also render Aron completely useless, as they break its beloved Sturdy, which means it can't take a hit before it uses Endeavor.</p>

    <p>Defensive Pokemon that are immune to Toxic and have some sort of a recovery option, such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory, are hard stops to Aron, (RC) though Ferrothorn won't enjoy a hit from Endeavor. Poison Heal Gliscor is especially effective, as its ability heals it up after the Endeavor; it is also immune to Toxic and sandstorm and healed by Toxic. Pokemon that carry multi-hit attacks, such as Breloom and Cloyster, can ignore Sturdy and kill Aron. Pokemon with the ability Mold Breaker or Teravolt work in a similar vein. Garchomp and Ferrothorn, which have the abilities Rough Skin and Iron Barbs respectively, can check Aron; although they pretty much have to sacrifice themselves to do so, their abilities can finish off Aron after it uses Endeavor. (Wait, you mentioned Ferrothorn in the beginning of this paragraph, and now you contradict yourself later. Whatever error you've made, fix it.) Finally, having unrelenting offensive pressure means Aron cannot switch in, so if you somehow lack any of the aforementioned Pokemon, playing well can get you around it.</p>


    This might be the best analysis I've checked. Well done.

    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  25. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    Thanks relaunched; there were some subjective changes that weren't actually correct (mostly factually due to changing the meaning of the writing), so I either didn't implement them or made different changes.

    This is ready for upload~

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