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ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread (New Proposal Handling System in OP)

Discussion in 'Policy Center' started by Seven Deadly Sins, Feb 10, 2012.

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  1. Athenodoros

    Athenodoros Official Smogon Know-It-All

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    ^Agree completely. I was just thinking this yesterday. For one thing, the flavour makes no sense.
  2. Objection

    Objection

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    <-- This guy is in agreement. I'd apply the same thing to evasive Teleport too, although I'm not sure what evasive Teleport would combine with anyway.
  3. TIO

    TIO

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    Agreed.
    Also, Teleport could combine with punches or something, just teleport behind the target, punch it, teleport back.
  4. C$FP

    C$FP

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    I think Teleport should only be able to combine with other evasive moves, since combining it with an attack would really just be using the two moves in succession rather than together as one move. The only thing that could be done simultaneously and together with Teleport is something evasive, but even such a combination is questionable.

    Otherwise, I agree with the sentiments above.

    Regarding the items discussion, I think that all Pokemon that evolve when traded in whatever manner should be allowed to use the Link Cable to keep in line with the principal that absolutely any Pokemon that can evolve upon level up can use Rare Candy. Finally, I think new items for the mons that evolve on level up once they know a particular move is a good idea, but I really have no idea what effects these items should have.

    EDIT: oh I also agree about the issues concerning when the energy is spent for attacking evasive moves (Dig, etc.) and charge-up moves (Sky Attack, etc.), and that the user should spend have the energy at each stage.
  5. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random The imitated
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    After a week or two of bickering & complaining, the ASB Council Constitution is now in the OP of this thread.

    That is all.
  6. Complications

    Complications

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    IAR, regaurding the proposals section of Constitution, what of the proposals made jus before this? (Regaurding Link Cable for all Pokemon who evolve via trade, Dodge combos, etc?)
  7. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random The imitated
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    Sorry, I have no intentions to break Kingdra; It can have its 3/3/3/3 stats for all I care. Besides, it has Dragon Scale. Also, you already know what my position on Dodge Combos are.
  8. Complications

    Complications

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    Well have to discuss this on IRC- anyways, Dragon Scale definitely is better for Kingdra than Link Cable...
  9. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon is a more intuitive player
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    ok so rules for ref compensation in case of DQ currently suck DICK. I've never once heard a case of a ref getting overcompensated or even fairly compensated for his time when a match ends in a dq and it's to no fault of his own!

    there are two proposed ideas i've heard - the first is to take the number of KOes on one side, and claim UC based on the largest possible format that would have finished normally. For example, in a 4v4 doubles where 3 mons fainted on one side and 0 on the other, the ref would claim 7 UC (the payout of a 3v3). In a 6v6 singles where four mons fainted on one side and two on the other, the ref would claim the 9 uc of a 4v4 and the 6 additional UC of a KO bonus. While this method is simple, it runs into a problem when there's a switch = ok match.

    That's where the second proposal comes in. This isn't based on how many mons were KOed, but how many participated in the match on the more participative side. Take the number of mons one side sent out, subtract the match format/2 rounded up, and claim for that size battle. For example, in a 5v5 triples where one side sent out all five mons, the ref would claim the UC for a 3v3 triples (5-[3/2^]=5-2=3). there could be minor concerns of refs being overcompensated for battles that end in DQ, but overall i believe it is much fairer.

    obviously, these aren't the only two possible solutions to the problem, so fire away with your ideas
  10. C$FP

    C$FP

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    ok well can people please express their thoughts specifically on what Illuminate should actually do? I think giving the user's team +1 Acc is good because it does not cause hax, and is a very easy solution. Other than that, the council can start discussing soon Dodge combos and I think the spending of Energy when using Dig and such (since that's a simple issue); as far as items go, I don't think there has been much agreement specifically on what should happen. I think once there is more (specific) feedback on Illuminate and/or the items, the council will start discussing the raised issues and vote on them all.
  11. LouisCyphre

    LouisCyphre heralds disaster.

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    +1 Acc is still very powerful on Starmie and Mollux; that's 91% Thunder and 100% Hydro Pumps. If people are okay with that, though...

    [box]Illuminate

    Type: Can be Activated

    When this Pokemon initially goes out into the battlefield, it generates an intense light. This light eases the accuracy of moves on command.

    While this Pokemon is in play, the chance to capture wild, non-boss Pokemon increases by x1.1

    Command: (Ability: Illuminate)

    The user luminescences, lighting the battlefield. The accuracy of all Pokemon, both friend and foe, increases by +1 stage. This command may be issued upon entering play, without consuming an action.

    Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 10 | Attack Type: Other| Effect Chance: -- | Typing: -- | Priority: 0 | CT: None

    Pokemon with this ability: Staryu, Starmie, Chinchou, Lanturn, Volbeat, Watchog, Mollux.[/box]

    Call this a starting point.

    EDIT: The capture rate bit is to emulate the in-game encounter rate increase. Can we even do anything like that in ASB?

    EDITEDIT: [box]20:20 imanalt|phone trilluminate tlr run LGI
    20:20 *** RoyalKevin quit (Connection reset by peer)
    20:21 imanalt|phone mollux/starmie/lanturn might work in some tlr
    20:21 imanalt|phone idk which though[/box]

    yeah the capture rate thing shouldn't stack with itself
  12. Gerard

    Gerard

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    So... you spend 10 energy for a worst version of No Guard?

    Tbh I don't think that Illuminate is broken, but a proposed change is to make it into a Victory Star clone (+Capture thing cause that seems really cool)
  13. Deck Knight

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    As far as Dodge Combos people keep forgetting that combinations are not some kind of free action. Yes, you could use Dodge + Bounce. But it'd cost you not less that 21 Energy (over 1/5th your supply), you'd evade one attack, and be completely vulnerable for the next action, all for a 10-odd BAP Flying attack with 30% paralysis and a single action of relative invulnerability (for anything that doesn't have Gust/Hurricane/Sky Uppercut/Smack Down/Thunder/Twister or 100 Acc moves).

    Don't lose your sense of balance by thinking only "this makes a powerful last-ditch attack!" It probably does, the thing is, especially in the case of these Dodge Combos, you have to outplay your opponent long enough to even get them into KO Range for that to work, and they can still trump you with Protect/Endure etc. or even a slower evasive move because even if the Evasive action is +4 priority, the hit isn't.
  14. LouisCyphre

    LouisCyphre heralds disaster.

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    A Victory Star outclasser, no less. Unless we make Victory Star stronger somehow.

    Thoughts, anyone?
  15. Elevator Music

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    I really like that idea. It's a simple fix that isn't ridiculous. I don't care either way about the capture thing (if we do that we might want to do that for all abilities that increase encounter rate, and it'd probably be better if they don't stack, but idk), whatever everyone else wants for that will be fine by me I guess.

    As far as Victory Star itself being "outclassed" that way, eh. Victini is good enough (especially with the new moves its getting), but it does seem kinda silly.
  16. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
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    Victini doesn't need to worry about its ability being outclassed, it can just demolish things anyways...
  17. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    If we're really worried about Victory Star being outclassed why don't we make that +1 Acc as well -_- It doesn't really make a difference to the powerful moves (i.e. V-Create, Fusion XXX, Overheat, and the 15 BAP Sluggish moves) giving a nifty bonus to Focus Blast and Thunder. There's also Inferno but 67% Acc is still really shaky.

    That being said I like Lou's proposal, although the wording is kind of awkward but that's just my being nitpicky. The concept itself is really great.
  18. King Serperior

    King Serperior

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    I would like to bring up the ability: Illuminate.

    The accuracy lowering has been an issue to many people, according to what I have observed. I would like to propose a new version of this ability.

    My reasoning for this comes from my observation of the Psychic Type. They can lose concentration fairly easily if there is a bright enough light or loud enough noise. As many Special Moves require concentration to maintain them, the flash of light can and will stun them. Lets look at Flash itself for a moment. There is a certain part that makes me look at Illuminate and its potential ability to make a mon lose concentration:

    Many of you may agree, and many others may not. I still believe that Illuminate becoming a specially based Intimidate is required.
  19. Objection

    Objection

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    I like the idea behind this, although I feel that +1 accuracy might be a bit much. Perhaps it could be a flat 10% increase in accuracy for all moves as long as the Illuminate pokemon is in play (so a Timid Starmie still gets 100% accurate Thunders), and this bonus does not stack with other Illuminate pokemon in play. In which case, Illuminate would work better as a Can be Disabled ability than a Can be Activated ability since flavour-wise I imagine an effect like that being more akin to a lantern being lit or a light being switched on than a sudden flash of blinding light.
  20. Complications

    Complications

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    On Pwnemon's argument for ref compensation during a DQ, I have a suggestion:

    For singles battles, refs receive a compensation of .5 UC per round, rounded up. In cases where you only ref, say, one round, you get 1 UC, but if you were to red 26 (near the size of a 6vs), you'd get 13.

    For doubles battles, you would get 1 UC per round, seein how they are more difficult to ref.

    For triples battles, you would get either 1 or 1.5 UC per round, rounded up. Personally I lean more towards 1 UC per round seeing as the number of actions in a round of triples is the same as that of doubles.

    Of course, all DQ compensation with this formula would be capped at the amount of UC obtained if the match had been completed properly.
  21. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight DK! DK! Donkey Kong is here!
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    So I've been working on this for several days, and think I finally have it nailed down. This will be long:

    EDIT: Have been getting feedback on IRC

    Proposal For Signature Moves:

    I've been hesitant to support signature moves initially because the 5th Generation has so many different attacks that can be used or combined that there was little reason for me to support them. The signature moves systems I had been used to had very powerful signature moves that could only be used once every several actions, and had a nearly unlimited number of effects. They were essentially as customizable as arenas.

    The goal of the signature move system I am about to propose is to make signature moves fully compatible with the combinations system, and thus reserved enough in power to be used once every action. As such, the following rules are proposed:

    1. Signature moves can be learned by Pokemon that have filled out their Dream Counters (they do not need to have activated their ability.) Pokemon currently without Dream Counters will now have them, and can claim them by linking to previous battles they have been in.

    2. Signature Moves must match the same Base Power, Energy, Effect Chance, and any negative effects of an existing move.
    a. For all Pokemon except Legendaries caught through TLR or winning a Tournament, any cloned move must have at least three (3) distinct non-CAP Pokemon families (defined by the lowest evolution e.g. Wurmple/Oddish) that learn the base move.
    b. The Pokemon may only use a signature move of one of their types, the applicable types of a previous evolution (e.g. Surskit -> Masquerain), any type enabled based on their STAB (listing will be below), or Normal type.
    c. While the effect chance must be the same, based on the Pokemon's type they will change the effect (listing will be below).
    d. Major Status changes can only be inflicted by their base types (Burn: Fire, Freeze; Ice, Poison/Toxic: Poison, Paralysis: Electric, Sleep: Grass). Cloned Moves cannot inflict Major Status except where allowed by STAB. Temporary Effects (confusion, flinch) are maintained when cloned.
    e. If a move has ONLY an effect, like stat-ups/downs, direct Major Status (except where it would change due to STAB as noted above), or Direct Recovery, it cannot be cloned - since changing the type will not change the battle effect of the move.
    f. A Signature Move cannot be an exact clone of an existing move, even if the Pokemon does not learn that move (e.g. Camerupt cannot have an exact clone of Flare Blitz, however it can have a Fire version of Body Slam, Wild Charge, or Head Smash).
    g. If a Normal or Fighting Move with a Combination Type (CT) of Passive or Deferring is used as a base move by another type, the Signature Move’s CT will be changed to Elemental.

    List of Moves that Cannot Ever be Base Moves (will overlap with rules above):
    DO NOT USE THESE (open)
    Acid
    Acid Spray
    Assist
    Bide
    Bounce
    Bulldoze
    Copycat
    Counter
    Curse
    Dig
    Dive
    Dynamicpunch
    Earthquake
    Encore
    Endeavor
    Explosion
    Fake Out
    Feint
    Final Gambit
    Fissure
    Fly
    Focus Punch
    Freeze Shock
    Gastro Acid
    Gravity
    Grudge
    Guillotine
    Heal Block
    Heal Pulse
    Hi Jump Kick
    Hail
    Horn Drill
    Ice Burn
    Inferno
    Imprison
    Leech Seed
    Light Screen
    Magic Coat
    Me First
    Memento
    Metal Burst
    Metronome
    Mimic
    Mirror Coat
    Mirror Move
    Natural Gift
    Nature Power
    Pain Split
    Perish Song
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Reflect
    Relic Song
    Rest
    Safeguard
    Sandstorm
    Selfdestruct
    Shadow Force
    Sheer Cold
    Sketch
    Sky Attack
    Sleep Talk
    Spikes
    Spore
    Stealth Rock
    Stored Power
    Sunny Day
    Taunt
    Techno Blast
    Torment
    Toxic Spikes
    U-turn
    V-Create
    Volt Switch
    Water Gun
    Weather Ball
    Worry Seed
    Zap Cannon


    3. Signature moves will be eligible for the same ability bonuses as the base move.
    a. Cloned Punch Moves will be eligible for Iron Fist
    b. Cloned Recoil Moves will be eligible for Reckless, Rock Head, and Magic Guard
    c. Cloned Secondary Effect moves will be eligible for Sheer Force and Serene Grace
    d. Cloned Multi-Hit moves will be eligible for Skill Link
    e. Cloned moves with 6 or less BAP will be eligible for Technician

    4. STAB allowances for Signature Moves
    1. All Specific Pokemon may use a signature move of any type where they have five (5) or more distinct attacks of that type in their 5th generation learnset.
    2. Otherwise STABs are linked to specific kinds of moves for related types as indicated below:

    Normal (open)
    Normal: May use Normal and any signature move type where they learn Moves in 5th Gen of that type equal to the following or greater values:
    Bug: 3
    Dark: 5
    Dragon: 3
    Electric: 5
    Fighting: 5
    Fire: 5
    Flying: 5
    Ghost: 3
    Grass: 4
    Ground: 3
    Ice: 4
    Poison: 4
    Psychic: 5
    Rock: 4
    Steel: 3
    Water: 3
    Bug (open)
    Bug: May use Bug type signature moves as well as Dark, Flying, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Bug, Dark, Flying, Psychic
    Dark (open)
    Dark: May use Dark type signature moves as well as Fighting, Ghost, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Dark, Fighting, Ghost, Psychic
    Dragon (open)
    Dragon: My use Dragon type signature moves as well as Fire, Ground, or Water type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Dragon, Fire, Ground, Water
    Electric (open)
    Electric: May use Electric type signature moves as well as Dark, Fire, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect to paralysis. Electric types add a 10% paralysis effect to any Electric-type move with no Major Status effect.
    Type Recap: Electric, Dark, Fire, Psychic
    Fighting (open)
    Fighting: May use Fighting type signature moves as well as Dark, Ground, or Rock type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Fighting, Dark, Ground, Rock
    Fire (open)
    Fire: May use Fire type signature moves as well as Ground, Poison, or Rock type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to burn. Fire types add a 10% burn chance to any Fire-typed signature move with no Major Status effect.
    Type Recap: Fire, Ground, Poison, Rock
    Flying (open)
    Flying: May use Flying type signature moves as well as Dark, Dragon, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Flying, Dark, Dragon, Psychic
    Ghost (open)
    Ghost: May use Ghost type signature moves as well as Dark, Electric, or Ice provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Ghost, Dark, Electric, Ice
    Grass (open)
    Grass: May use Grass type signature moves as well as Dragon, Poison, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to sleep. Grass types add a 10% sleep chance to any Grass-typed signature move with no Major Status effect.
    Type Recap: Grass, Dragon, Poison, Psychic
    Ground (open)
    Ground: May use Ground type signature moves as well as Bug, Rock or Steel type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Ground, Bug, Rock, Steel
    Ice (open)
    Ice: May use Ice type signature moves as well as Dark, Fighting, or Rock provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to freeze. Ice types add a 10% freeze chance to any Ice-typed signature move with no Major Status effect.
    Type Recap: Ice, Dark, Fighting, Rock
    Poison (open)
    Poison: May use Poison type signature moves as well as Dark, Fighting, or Fire type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to poison or toxic (owner discretion). Poison types add a 10% poison or toxic chance to any Poison-typed signature move with no Major Status effect.
    Type Recap: Poison, Dark, Fighting, Fire
    Psychic (open)
    Psychic: May use Psychic type signature moves as well as Dark, Electric, or Fighting type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Psychic, Dark, Electric, Fighting
    Rock (open)
    Rock: May use Rock type signature moves as well as Dragon, Ground, or Steel type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Rock, Dragon, Ground, Steel
    Steel (open)
    Steel: May use Steel type signature moves as well as Ground, Psychic, or Rock type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Steel, Ground, Psychic, Rock
    Water (open)
    Water: May use Water type as well as Bug, Ice, or Ground type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset.
    Type Recap: Water, Bug, Ice, Ground


    Signature Move Form:
    Pokemon: <Pokemon learning the signature move>
    Base Move: <The base move of the signature>
    New Type: <The new type of the signature>
    Name: <The name being given to the signature>
    Description: <A DAT type description of how the attack is performed>
    Data: <Data for the move>

    Example:
    Pokemon: Camerupt
    Base Move: Body Slam
    New Type: Fire
    Name: Fire Drive
    Description: Camerupt charges into the foe full force with its whole body in flames. The heat and pressure of the attack can cause a burn.
    Data: Attack Power: 7 + User Weight Class/2.5 (round up) | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 5 + Weight Class/3 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: 30% | Contact: Yes | Typing: Fire | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental
  22. TIO

    TIO

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    How much do sig moves cost?
    Where can we get them?
  23. Complications

    Complications

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    Deck Knight where will these move applications be posted? Also, is there a limit to the number of signature moves attainable? (I assume one?)
  24. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

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    I was kind of hoping I could give my snorlax an energy restoring rest, but this is still great. Finally my snorlax can finally be different from other snorlax!

    Thank you Deck Knight!
  25. Gerard

    Gerard

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    I think there are some moves missing from the Unusable list (ex. Endeavour, who I don't think shoud be allowed to be used as a base move)

    Otherwise it's a great idea, though it might be a slap in the face for pokemon with shallow movepools whose attacks mostly revolve around their STABs, looking good though (maybe now we can get the gym to give TMS?)

    PS: what does 5th Generation learnset means? I'm thinking all of Level Up, Eggs + 5th Gen TMs & Tutors but I think I would like clarification
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