ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread (New Proposal Handling System in OP)

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Well, not only lumrest - hydrarest and chestorest are nonfunctioning as well, which is counterintuitive to how they work in-game.

Also, trick and switcheroo should work in the proposed crazy way of skill swap and co.
 

Geodude6

Look at my shiny CT!
Little thing we've been discussing over on IRC:

DAT said:
Struggle: The Pokemon struggles desperately in an attempt to do some damage to its foe, taking 40% of the damage done in recoil to itself in the process. Struggle can be ordered at any time; however, it tends to unnerve the Pokemon when used. Struggle is a typeless attack, hitting all opponents for neutral damage. Struggle can hit Ghosts.

Attack Power: 5 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 5 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: Yes | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
As it stands now Normal-types get the STAB benefits when using Struggle, which doesn't make sense imo. Struggle is a typless attack, yet it says "Normal" as the type.

I say we should change Struggle to Type: N/A.
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
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Little thing we've been discussing over on IRC:

DAT said:
Struggle: The Pokemon struggles desperately in an attempt to do some damage to its foe, taking 40% of the damage done in recoil to itself in the process. Struggle can be ordered at any time; however, it tends to unnerve the Pokemon when used. Struggle is a typeless attack, hitting all opponents for neutral damage. Struggle can hit Ghosts.

Attack Power: 5 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 5 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: Yes | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
As it stands now Normal-types get the STAB benefits when using Struggle, which doesn't make sense imo. Struggle is a typless attack, yet it says "Normal" as the type.

I say we should change Struggle to Type: N/A.
Nah, there is no real point to this. Struggle in-game is a Normal-Type, & Attacks with no type no longer exist in-game since the Current Generation. Also, the only thing typeless about it is the fact that it ignores the type chart. Let the normal types have their stab or something, idk. Oppose w/o discussion. :/

EDIT: Yeah, my bad, Normalk does not get STAB on Struggle, but still, there is no ??? Type in the game any more. My initial position on the matter stands.
 

Engineer Pikachu

Good morning, you bastards!
is a Contributor Alumnus
Actually despite Struggle being listed as a Normal-type attack in-game I don't think Normal-type Pokemon gain STAB on it. Bulbapedia isn't exactly reliable but I don't see any other site that refutes the claim.

Supporting this, but I'd argue to change the Type listing to something more like "Type: ???" but that's small nitpicky stuff.
 
So IAR, to clarify, you would be okay with modifying struggle to not have stab (to adhere to ingame), not be affected by type chart (to adhere to ingame), but would rule against it having type:???

Because now the "only things" typeless about it is that it ignores the type chart and doesn't have STAB

Well okay
 
I'm going to power trip and just make the following change:

DAT said:
Struggle: The Pokemon struggles desperately in an attempt to do some damage to its foe, taking 40% of the damage done in recoil to itself in the process. Struggle can be ordered at any time; however, it tends to unnerve the Pokemon when used. Struggle is a typeless attack, hitting all opponents for neutral damage. Struggle can hit Ghosts. No Pokemon can gain STAB from Struggle.

Attack Power: 5 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 5 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: Yes | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive

Look at me, I'm a mini-DK :O
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
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So IAR, to clarify, you would be okay with modifying struggle to not have stab (to adhere to ingame), not be affected by type chart (to adhere to ingame), but would rule against it having type:???

Because now the "only things" typeless about it is that it ignores the type chart and doesn't have STAB

Well okay
??? Typing does not exist in-game as of Gen V onwards; which is precedent enough to reject it. Not that it matters now, since EM decided to go on a power trip... -.-'
 
With no action being taken, I volunteer for the position of RP Committee member until a more permement solution is being taken. If no one else is willing to take on the task, I will step up to the plate. And if anyone has a better idea, now would be the time to hear it.
Leethoof

Leethoof

Leethoof
Leethoof is frozen in Siberia at the moment. Dunno when he'll thaw.

Also I'd totally volunteer or compete for a spot, but that probably wouldn't be best, seeing as I've got got showdown to worry about. But, I'd be happy to help.
Its april already i cant be frozen.

Also we'd need input from engi and zar on if they wish to keep thier positions/agree with this whole thing.
I already sent off a message to zarator earlier today; I'm not sure what system we're going to end up using but it's probably going to go through a general "who wants this position" thread and then a vote.
IRC said:
14:44 Eternal_Drifter
I think I've been meaning to speak with you... any word on plans for the RP Council?

14:45 Zarator
I resigned from the RP Council, sorry^^

14:45
Zarator
It happened some days ago

14:45 Eternal_Drifter
I see... then Engineer Pikachu is the last on it.

14:45 Zarator
For now, yes

14:47 Eternal_Drifter
*Sigh* Can I quote you on that? I'd like to get things moving for the RP Council.

14:48 Zarator
I already notified the other Council members

14:48 Eternal_Drifter
I see. Though nothing was mentioned in the feedback thread after Engineer said he'd check with you.

14:49 Zarator
I said it recently

14:49 Zarator
maybe it wasn't updated yet

14:56 Eternal_Drifter
Mind if I post this on the feedback thread?

14:56 Zarator
not at all, go ahead

14:56 Eternal_Drifter
Thank you... let's try to get this gap filled...
All right... Zarator's resigned from the RP council, so its just down to Engineer Pikachu now. Shall we start a discussion thread to start to get things dealt with?

Edit @V:
Good choices in those two. They have proven very capable with RPs. I hope they are able to fill the council well.
 
Actually the ASB Council has already discussed this turn of events after Zarator resigned. Over irc the 5 members not evolved put forth Frosty and Ragnarokalex as our recommendations, and all that remains is Engineer Pikachu's seal of approval for them to begin their duties.

engedit: I actually sent both of them a PM yesterday or two days ago (idr which one). Sorry for not mentioning it; I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post it in.
 
Actually the ASB Council has already discussed this turn of events after Zarator resigned. Over irc the 5 members not evolved put forth Frosty and Ragnarokalex as our recommendations, and all that remains is Engineer Pikachu's seal of approval for them to begin their duties.
Confirming this, we've decided upon these two owing to their time in the community, active work in RPs and being level headed.
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
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Okay, this needs to be done.
Switch = OK: At the end of each round, a trainer may switch their Pokemon. If they do, the Pokemon they send out must issue attacks first. The same trainer cannot switch on consecutive rounds unless an Attack like U-turn, Volt Change, or Teleport is used. Trainers whose Pokemon are returned through the effects of moves like Dragon Tail, Circle Throw, Roar, and Whirlwind do not have to move first the next round.

Voluntary switches occur only during a switching phase.

A Switching phase may only be initiated by the trainer moving first that round. Instead of issuing commands, the trainer may instead initiate a switch and offer their opponent a chance to switch their Pokemon. If the opposing trainer accepts and switches their Pokemon, that trainer forfeits the advantage of moving second that round.

A Switching phase has only two possible outcomes:

1. Player A Switch > Player B Declines Switch > Player A Orders > Player B Orders.

2. Player A Switch > Player B Counterswitch and Orders > Player A Orders.

Tag Team Battles operate the same with both team members on the same team switching their Pokemon first. The team which performs the most switches in the switch phase moves first. (e.g. if both trainers on a two person tag team switch, but only one of their opponents does, their opponents still move second)

Melee battles go through each trainer next in the order. Attack Order is then determined in the reverse order of trainers who switched. (eg. Trainer A initiates switch phase. Trainer B makes a switch, Trainer C declines to switch, then Trainer D makes a switch. The attack order would now be D > B > A > C. Because D was able to see the decisions of all other players, D is punished the most for deciding to switch after B switched and C declined.

Any Battle large enough to require orders via PM will automatically be set to Switch=KO

There are some issues that exist in the current rules that I feel need fixing. These are:

  • The obscure cannot initiate a switch phase on consecutive rounds ruling — Nobody follows it, so that needs to be abolished ASAP.
  • Lack of clarity in some sections — This should be fixed.
  • Switch Phases involving trapping moves/abilities/whatever — This is vague & is pretty much unwritten as a ruling, so clarifying it should be necessary.
So we need a solution. This is my proposed solution:
[BOX]Switch = OK: At the end of each round, a trainer may switch their Pokemon. If they do, the Pokémon they send out must issue attacks first if their opponent does not switch with them. Trainers whose Pokémon are returned through the effects of moves like U-turn, Volt Switch, Teleport, and Baton Pass have to order first next round, though they may still initiate a switch phase if they wish to do so. Trainers whose Pokémon are returned through the effects of moves like Dragon Tail, Circle Throw, Roar, and Whirlwind do not have to move first the next round.

Voluntary switches occur only during a switching phase.

A Switching phase may only be initiated by the trainer moving first that round. Instead of issuing commands, the trainer may instead initiate a switch and offer their opponent a chance to switch their Pokémon. If the opposing trainer accepts and switches their Pokémon, that trainer forfeits the advantage of moving second that round. During a Switch Phase, if a trainer switches in/out a Pokémon with the Shadow Tag/Arena Trap Ability, or switches out a Pokémon that has trapped another Pokémon through the use of Block/Mean Look/Bind/Clamp/Fire Spin/Magma Storm/Sand Tomb/Whirlpool/Wrap, then the opponent can still Counterswitch the Pokémon that were trapped through such means. Should the opposing trainer have no living Pokémon in the bench, then the offer to Counterswitch is automatically declined.

A Switching phase has only two possible outcomes:

1. Player A Switch > Player B Declines Switch > Player A Orders > Player B Orders.

2. Player A Switch > Player B Counterswitch and Orders > Player A Orders.

Tag Team Battles operate the same with both team members on the same team switching their Pokemon first. The team which performs the most switches in the switch phase moves first. (e.g. if both trainers on a two person tag team switch, but only one of their opponents does, their opponents still move second)

Melee battles go through each trainer next in the order. Attack Order is then determined in the reverse order of trainers who switched. (eg. Trainer A initiates switch phase. Trainer B makes a switch, Trainer C declines to switch, then Trainer D makes a switch. The attack order would now be D > B > A > C. Because D was able to see the decisions of all other players, D is punished the most for deciding to switch after B switched and C declined.

Any Battle large enough to require orders via PM will automatically be set to Switch=KO[/BOX]
Okay, the obscure ruling is gone, that is obvious. I mentioned how the auto-switch moves affect turn order, that is obvious. I mentioned how trainers with no reserve cannot Counterswitch, obvious. The real controversial part, I believe, is this added section:
[BOX]During a Switch Phase, if a trainer switches in/out a Pokémon with the Shadow Tag/Arena Trap Ability, or switches out a Pokémon that has trapped another Pokémon through the use of Block/Mean Look/Bind/Clamp/Fire Spin/Magma Storm/Sand Tomb/Whirlpool/Wrap, then the opponent can still Counterswitch the Pokémon that were trapped through such means.[/BOX]
Okay, here is the niggling part that would see opinions divided. Do not get me wrong, the ability to trap something you want to take out is very powerful in its own right, but the major problem comes in this: Do we follow in-game—where Double Switches are a thing—or do we follow the Anime, where there is an "I switch, then you switch" thing? I believe we should—for the sake of clarity & balance—try to apply the two in separate occasions. Switching in a st/at mon should follow in-game where you can double switch & avoid having your weaker Pokémon trapped, while switching out the trapper should follow the Anime where you switch out, but when you switch out, so does the trapping effects, allowing the opponent to counter-switch, since there is nothing stopping them from not switching any more, right?

Any thoughts? Especially the whole switching trappers thing since I honestly doubt that is going to be agreed on...
 

ZhengTann

Nargacuga
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Regarding Memento: Support without need for discussion. As a relatively weak suicide move (doesn't do damage, and can be nullified pretty easily by self-phazing or switching), I don't think that there is much to discuss about. Perhaps the Council could hold a vote to settle upon an arbitrary EN cost (I'd say maybe 10, since Selfdestruct, Shell Smash and Growth costs 15, 20 and 7 EN respectively as a suicide move, a +2/-1/+2/-1/+2 super-stage booster, and an average +1/+1 stage booster).

Regarding Switch phases in Switch = OK: Fifth-ing the support with discussion bandwagon. This issue actually highlighted one of the more important underlying questions in ASB - what to do when there exists discrepancies between in-catridge and in-anime precedences. If I could, I would like to delve deeper into that in order to resolve Switch and any other issues that might come up in the future, but then again, I am only one person.
 
So I have no business making a proposal of any sort, I'd just like to note that reffing a 3v3 Singles nets you 7 UC, compared to a 4v4, which nets roughly 15 UC (given 6 KO's, which should happen unless the match is extremely unbalanced). If this has been brought up before, I apologize!
 
AS I recall the KO bonus which you mention was to encourage the taking of larger matches, providing such an incentive. a 4v4 singles will generally take a much longer time to ref than most other formats and is compensated accordingly. There may be a better system out there for UC distribution but one has yet to be proposed.
 
Proposing that we change Sheer Force to act like it does in-game in relation to which moves get boosted... Currently moves such as Fake Out, Bulldoze, Inferno, and Zap Cannon do not get boosted (even though they do receive the boost and negation effect ingame.)

I just see zero reason as to why we are special snowflakes for this ability
 
Proposing that we change Sheer Force to act like it does in-game in relation to which moves get boosted... Currently moves such as Fake Out, Bulldoze, Inferno, and Zap Cannon do not get boosted (even though they do receive the boost and negation effect ingame.)

I just see zero reason as to why we are special snowflakes for this ability
22:56 EspyOwner also everyone go support my proposal before I cut out your spines

good thing i have no spine



I see no reason why it isn't already what it is in the game.
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
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Proposing that we change Sheer Force to act like it does in-game in relation to which moves get boosted... Currently moves such as Fake Out, Bulldoze, Inferno, and Zap Cannon do not get boosted (even though they do receive the boost and negation effect ingame.)

I just see zero reason as to why we are special snowflakes for this ability
If we are following ingame precedence with this ability, then yeah, unless there is some balance issue that I cannot see at the present moment. I am going to tentatively support this.

Anyhow, this is not what I am posting for. This is what I am posting for.

Shift.

It is a command.

It does this:
[BOX]Shift: A Pokemon may use the Shift command on an adjacent allied Pokemon in any multi-battle format. Shift switches the position of the Pokemon using it and its target without interfering with the target's actions. Shift cannot fail due to Taunt, cannot be Disabled, cannot be Encored, and cannot be interacted with by any other move that would otherwise prevent it from taking place.

Command Type: Universal | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 5 | Priority: 0 | CT: Deferring[/BOX]
Never seen it before? Well, you are not alone, as this thing—a command that was never in the original DAT—Was never even remotely discussed in any SotG, nor in this thread at all, until now. Implemented out of the blue, it is very much a powerful dick move that can fuck up an entire round's worth of actions in multiples, especially since any decent player would have a better thing to sub for. Yet this is based on the ingame triples command. It is basically a command very much superior to the move counterpart: Ally Switch, whose only niche over Shift is the increased priority. So what is the big deal about it? Well, apart from the fact that not even Deck knew that this was a thing until I mentioned it on IRC, but to put it simply, for the sake of balance in battles & most roleplays like TLR & ASB Raid Zone, I want this thing to be only usable in battles where positioning is on, since those battles tend to resemble in-game more than usual, & with shift being a command for ingame triples, this seems appropriate.

Proposed Shift
[BOX]Shift: A Pokemon may use the Shift command on an adjacent allied Pokemon in any multi-battle format where positioning is on. Shift switches the position of the Pokemon using it and its target without interfering with the target's actions. Shift cannot fail due to Taunt, cannot be Disabled, cannot be Encored, and cannot be interacted with by any other move that would otherwise prevent it from taking place.

Command Type: Universal | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 5 | Priority: 0 | CT: Deferring[/BOX]
We could always remove Shift too, but idk. The point is, allowing this in Positioning off matches when we have shit like Bodyblock, Take Cover, & Ally Switch, & other roleplays like TLR that do not have positioning, is just a balance issue imo. Keep it to positioning on matches, like it was supposed to be intended to be used in.

Now then... Who wants to shoot me down on this?
 
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