Data ASB Viability Rankings Mark III

[Its_A_Random]

ASB VIABILITY RANKINGS

Welcome to the official ASB Viability Ranking thread. If you have visited the Viability Ranking thread for any other tier, you should be familiar with the concept of this thread - we will organise the Pokémon in our tier into ranks, varying on how good they are. You are encouraged to post your thoughts on where Pokémon should be ranked. Please note that each section is going to be in alphabetical order.

We currently have no "council" except for the mods - the people who have proven to be consistently good, quality posters in this thread (even those with differing opinions from the masses!) will be considered to help make the final calls.

In order to cut down on shit-posting, please do not bandwagon posts. Unless you have new or different experiences to share, you are defending a nomination, or if the nomination has not been discussed for ~3 days, try to avoid repeating the same information someone else said before you.

Disclaimer: Just because a Pokémon is not listed in a tier, does not mean it is unviable and/or unusable; quite the opposite. These rankings are ultimately subjective and power levels in ASB are far more closer in ASB relative to in-game, and Pokémon in lower tiers or not listed will still be excellent choices against higher tiered Pokémon. Do not let this discourage you from buying Pokémon because apart from the truly terrible, any Pokémon can be powerful in ASB.

--------------------

OLD THREADS
Mark I
Mark II

 

[Its_A_Random]

PRELIMINARY RANKINGS (SINGLES)

Tier 0
Pokémon in Tier 0 are objectively speaking, way too good for the metagame.

• Frosty

Tier 0.5
Pokémon in Tier 0.5 are arguably too good for the metagame, bordering on unhealthy or maybe even outright broken metagame-wise.

• Nothing available.

Tier 1
Pokémon in Tier 1 have a very high level of viability in the metagame, winning most of their 1v1 matchups and having any flaw they have made up for by their strengths. To put it simply, you cannot go wrong by using these Pokémon.

• 
  Aurumoth
• 
  Gallade (Mega)
• 
  Gardevoir (Mega)
• 
  Gengar (Mega)
• 
  Greninja
• 
  Kecleon
• 
  Mr. Mime
• 
  Sableye

Tier 1.5
Pokémon in Tier 1.5 have a high level of viability in the metagame, winning a lot of 1v1 matchups and being all around good. These Pokémon do however, have flaws that stop them from winning consistently.

• 
  Aggron (Mega)
• 
  Alakazam (Mega)
• 
  Bronzong
• 
  Camerupt (Mega)
• 
  Charizard (Mega X)
• 
  Charizard (Mega Y)
• 
  Colossoil
• 
  Conkeldurr
• 
  Deoxys
• 
  Dragonite
• 
  Dusknoir
• 
  Gallade
• 
  Gardevoir
• 
  Gengar
• 
  Heracross (Mega)
• 
  Kangaskhan (Mega)
• 
  Kitsunoh
• 
  Mawile (Mega)
• 
  Metagross (Mega)
• 
  Mewtwo
• 
  Necturna
• 
  Porygon-Z
• 
  Pyroak
• 
  Sableye (Mega)
• 
  Salamence (Mega)
• 
  Snorlax
• 
  Togekiss

Tier 2
Pokémon in Tier 2 possess an average amount of viability, possessing traits that make them worth using, but having noticeable flaws that stop them winning consistently and tend to be matchup-dependent.

• 
  Aggron
• 
  Alakazam
• 
  Altaria (Mega)
• 
  Ambipom
• 
  Azumarill
• 
  Blaziken (Mega)
• 
  Camerupt
• 
  Chandelure
• 
  Cinccino
• 
  Clefable
• 
  Cyclohm
• 
  Delcatty
• 
  Druddigon
• 
  Eelektross
• 
  Glalie (Mega)
• 
  Goodra
• 
  Gyarados (Mega)
• 
  Haxorus
• 
  Infernape
• 
  Krilowatt
• 
  Lopunny (Mega)
• 
  Lucario
• 
  Lucario (Mega)
• 
  Mamoswine
• 
  Meloetta
• 
  Metagross
• 
  Mollux
• 
  Nidoking
• 
  Pinsir (Mega)
• 
  Plasmanta
• 
  Porygon2
• 
  Regirock
• 
  Reuniclus
• 
  Revenankh
• 
  Rotom
• 
  Slowbro
• 
  Slowbro (Mega)
• 
  Slowking
• 
  Starmie
• 
  Steelix
• 
  Steelix (Mega)
• 
  Stratagem
• 
  Syclant
• 
  Tomohawk
• 
  Tyranitar (Mega)
• 
  Venomoth
• 
  Venusaur (Mega)
• 
  Volkraken

Tier 3
Pokémon in Tier 3 are on the edge of viability in the metagame, possessing a low amount of viability overall and having a lot of flaws or being highly matchup dependent and/or minorly outclassed, but have strong quirks that make them worth using.

• 
  Aegislash
• 
  Aerodactyl
• 
  Aerodactyl (Mega)
• 
  Ampharos (Mega)
• 
  Armaldo
• 
  Aromatisse
• 
  Banette (Mega)
• 
  Beedrill (Mega)
• 
  Blastoise (Mega)
• 
  Blaziken
• 
  Carracosta
• 
  Clawitzer
• 
  Cloyster
• 
  Darmanitan
• 
  Delibird
• 
  Ditto
• 
  Dragalge
• 
  Drapion
• 
  Dusclops
• 
  Electivire
• 
  Escavalier
• 
  Ferrothorn
• 
  Heracross
• 
  Houndoom (Mega)
• 
  Kingdra
• 
  Lanturn
• 
  Ludicolo
• 
  Medicham (Mega)
• 
  Musharna
• 
  Primeape
• 
  Regice
• 
  Registeel
• 
  Roserade
• 
  Scizor
• 
  Scizor (Mega)
• 
  Shuckle
• 
  Smeargle
• 
  Sunflora
• 
  Swoobat
• 
  Tentacruel
• 
  Weavile
• 
  Zoroark

Tier Matezoide
Pokémon in Tier Matezoide tend to either have niches that are not strong enough to get them featured on this list or are just not good enough or are outclassed by Pokémon in higher tiers. This is also the "favourites" rank. Named after Matezoide for his ability to get success out of otherwise unviable Pokémon.

• Everything else.

 

[Its_A_Random]

PRELIMINARY RANKINGS (DOUBLES)

Coming Soon!

 

[Its_A_Random]

REVISION HISTORY

This is where pastebins go if things actually happen.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Reserved.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Okay I have basically decided to revive and overhaul the rankings a bit. Some noticeable changes:

• There will be separate rankings for Singles and Doubles. This is because some Pokémon are much better in Doubles than Singles and vice versa.
• I have decided to use a Tier # system as opposed to the SABCDEF system. This is because Tier # can extend forever and is less restricting than SABCDEF, and does not really need subdivisions.
• I am doing two things with these new lists: putting much less emphasis on micro-management, and trying to keep lists small, which is why there is a whopping 137 entries in the initial list. That said:
  • The only micro-management I am strongly considering is revising Tier 3 and adding a Tier 4 as the new "edge of viability" tier.
  • I do not want to add Pokémon willy nilly just because they are viable as some Pokémon in the lowest non-Tier Matezoide tier. If they are better than a lot maybe and if something terrible is on there, then it should be unlisted. I also do not want the ranks to be too inflated Generally speaking I do not want the tiers to be gigantic like the old thread.
• The initial rankings I have posted for singles and will post for doubles are very rough and there will most likely be some obvious movements/additions/subtractions needed, but keep in mind if a Pokémon is the best in its tier but a cut below the Pokémon in the tier above, odds are it is not moving up. Generally onus is on those wanting to change the status quo to prove that the change is worthy.
• No, Rotom and Deoxys formes will not be tiered separately for now. Rotom because you can basically pick and choose your forme depending on the situation (don't tell me you will never use Rotom Fan because I found a use for it in tournament play), and ditto for Deoxys. Basically I am considering them as a suite and the ability to pick what you use makes it more viable in general.
• Triples will not have a VR list for now. Besides, it would be mostly the same as Doubles at any rate.

That I think covers all of it, remember that general forum rules apply here, and happy posting!

Oh, and try to not let this thread die like the last two incarnations did... >_>

Current discussion: Sorting out the obvious in the rankings.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

From my internal ranking I'd see Bronzong and Necturna moved to 2, but by the definitions they're fine. Based on definitions, Char-x needs to drop to 1.5, it's not metagame defining good. Druddigon needs to be way way way higher, 1.5 isn't unreasonable at all. I've never been joking when I've claimed it's the best Dragon, it can win almost any matchup 1v1 through Sheer Force (see what I did there). Awesome versatility, great stats, a typing without serious flaws, and a surprisingly expansive movepool, I'd see Druddigon to 2 at the very least and I'd push for 1.5.

edit: Switch Dragonite with Char-X

edit2: Goodra is too high at Rank 2, s/b rank 3, being higher than Drudd is absurd

edit3: Delcatty may be high at 3. Syclant is a bad Pokemon, it arguably shouldn't be on the list, rank 2 is way too high

edit4: drop both Cyclohm and Meloetta to 2, both are special beatsticks that need good matchups to excel without a ton of tricks that can win games

 

[Birkal]

In terms of Tier 1, I agree with Texas in that Charizard-X is not a huge threat to the metagame. In terms of a physical powerhouse, it isn't much better than Pyroak / Colossoil, and its even outclassed by some like Conkeldurr / Mega Heracross. Being SR weak doesn't help either. I will be the first to admit that Kecleon is a fantastic Pokemon, but I wouldn't categorize it as a Tier 1 threat. Yes, it wins most 1v1 match ups, but it can be extremely hindered by item removal or ability cancellation. Having 3/2/40 offenses is poor, even with Protean. It should be ranked in Tier 1.5 as a result.

I'm not sure what qualifies a move-up from Tier 1.5 to Tier 1, but if it's based off of actual viability, Mega Aggron, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Camerupt should all be moved up for dealing insane amounts of damage. Mega Heracross could be considered too, as it can even beat Flying-types that lack Sky Attack. Finally, I would love to see someone link a match within the past year in which Cyclohm did amazing work. It should be in Tier 2 for a poor movepool and not great offenses.

Just my initial thoughts.

 

[Frosty]

Lemme see:

- Char-X: 1.5 or 2. Certainly not 1
- Gallade: eeeeeehhhhhhhhhh. "fine". I'd prefer 1.5, but I could see reasoning for 1.
- MeGallade: fine
- Gardevoir: Regular Gardevoir is kinda meh to be blunt. it doesn't have as many tricks or survivability as Mr. mime and it doesn't pack much punch either. Easy 1.5 IMO.
- MeGardevoir: 1 if only because of its punch.
- Gengar: Passed its prime. I would demote to 2 or 1.5.
- Megagengar: fine
- Greninja: fine
- Kecleon: fine
- Kitsunoh: I'd put at 1.5. Imprison is annoying, but it doesn't have THAT many tricks and doesn't hit THAT hard. Similar boat as regular gardevoir.
- Mr. Mime: fine
- Sableye: fine

- Aggron, Alakazam, Mega Camerupt, Colossoil, Conkeldurr, Deoxys, Dragonite, Mega Heracross, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, Mega Metagross, Mewtwo, Necturna, Porygon-Z, Pyroak, Mega Sableye, Mega Salamence: fine
- Azumarill: Certainly matchup-reliant, I would put under 2.
- Bronzong: it is more annoying than effective really. Good vs light opponents, but meh otherwise.
- Regular Camerupt: Mega Camerupt has the power to break through unfavourable matchups. Regular Camerupt doesn't for the most part.
- Charizard y: eeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. "Fine". Drought + Solar Power is powerful, but it is still very weak to rock attacks. I never managed to really work this, but it can be me. 2 based on personal experience, but I suppose 1.5 for starters isn't out of whack.
- Cyclohm: see birkal's post. Past its prime.
- Dusknoir: I didn't have time to test how new Reaper Cloth affects it. But it's movepool has lots of variety and little power. It is one of the ghosts with the most tricks (see: wonder room :D), but...I don't know I wouldn't go as far as put it on 1.5 yet.
- Meloetta: no experience with or against it (gotta challenge subwayJ >:D) so can't comment.
- Slowbro: Matchup reliant. Loses vs many special attackers. Remove the huge defense and what is left is certainly unremarkable for a mega. Rank 2.
- Snorlax: Hi, I lose to ghosts and users of low kick. This is the staple of matchup-reliant. Rank 2.
- Togekiss: ...depends on if you are taking hax as a viable strategy. If yes then 1 or 1.5. If not then 2. Aside from the hax, Togekiss is kinda meh.
- Tomohawk: this seems...out of place? Boltbeam is everywhere. its stats are okay at best. It doesn't have any inherent advantage on neutral matchups. Rank 2 IMO.




2 and others maybe later.

 

[Gemini Taurus]

Yes I am biased when it comes to Meloetta, but to say it's a special beatstick with no tricks is a little bit of a stretch. The ability to completely exchange your set of weaknesses is extremely powerful (not to mention switching your stats as well). I would argue in terms of matchups as well there are very few where Meloetta doesn't have a chance to excel, rather than needing specific ones. While I can agree there aren't an extremely large amount of tricks to her, she does have great access to QUICK ability manipulation, as well as things like Gravity and Telekinesis to help. And this all goes without mentioning her great offensive power and strong coverage options.

TLDR: I am biased but I think Meloetta is deserving of Tier 1.5 or at least to be on par with several other pokemon in the tier.

As for other opinions I would add to Tier 3, Swampert or Mega Swampert. With a good amount of bulk, fair attacking stats, and stuff like CounterCoat+Bide. It has potential to be very good. It is however very matchup reliant which is why I'm gunning for Tier atm.

I've got to go atm, but later as a self reminder: Lapras, Cradily, Golurk, Reuniclus up,

 

[smashlloyd20]

Ooookay here we go

So tier 1 seems to contain several Pokemon that really belong with tier 1.5, and are not overpowering enough to stay in tier 1. Tier 1 Pokemon are defined as winning most of their matchups, while tier 1.5 Pokemon win many of theirs. It seems as though the Pokemon on the lower end of 1 are on the same level as the better 1.5 Pokemon, which are quite removed from the lower 1.5 mons. By definition, tier 1 should contain substantially fewer Pokemon than it does now; there are really only a few Pokemon in ASB that you really cannot go wrong by using. I would say that, in particular, Gengar, Kitsunoh, Charizard X, and Kecleon do not win the vast majority of their 1v1 matchups, and as such most likely belong in rank 1.5.

Gengar: Frail and doesn't hit extremely hard. Has lots of tricks but can be dealt with on fairly even ground by many Pokemon.
Kitsunoh: Has a few shenanigans but common weaknesses give it problems.
Charizard X: Has a lot of raw power but can't really overcome its weak matchups like the stronger rank 1 Pokemon
Kecleon: Incredibly versatile but suffers from generally low stats across the board.

I would also note that Dragonite can push through basically everything besides Ice-types with Multiscale and its huge movepool; I would definitely argue it for rank 1.

I'm also seeing quite a few Pokemon currently in rank 1.5 that, as Frosty alluded to, are matchup-dependent to a large degree. Based on the definitions, a tier 1.5 Pokemon should at least be able to go even in the vast majority of matchups, and win its good ones solidly. With that said, I believe these Pokemon belong more in tier 2 than 1.5:

Azumarill: Its STABs hit hard but it can be crippled in too many ways and has too many bad matchups.
Bronzong: Doesn't hit hard and doesn't have effective tricks. Extremely strong in doubles though.
Camerupt: Doesn't pack the power to break through mediocre matchups like its mega form does, and has bad weaknesses.
Cyclohm: See everyone above.
Mega Slowbro: Strong against physical attackers, but has poor weaknesses and insufficient offensive presence.
Tomohawk: I don't really see what this brings to the table that any tier 2 Pokémon don't. Decent but not amazing offense, and weak to boltbeam.

Lower rank comments coming soon (tm)

 

[Dogfish44]

Auru, Zard-X, Gallade, Gardevoir, Gengar, and Kitsunoh are all out of place in T1. I'd punt them all down to 1.5.

Melo probably should drop down to 2 for singles - it's a blighter in Doubles, but not in singles.

Cyclohm I'd argue is just about 1.5, based on the fact that it wins almost every physical matchup by virtue of 110/5 bulk, and Shield Dust is still a ridiculously good ASB Ability. The only reason it's not seeing a lot of high-level play is the same reason dragons in general suffer - everyone's got an M-Gardevoir.

Tomohawk can drop to 2. It can potentially be 1.5 or even 1 in doubles, but Singles is the wrong meta for it.

Castform should be dropped to Matezoide.

Ditto *could* potentially make it's way to a 2 for it's power in larger matches.

There is no reason for Drudd to be in the same rank as Kingdra. My only experience with it is watching Tex's gym matches and as a raid ally, but it's a tank.

Live everyone else, I'll post more thoughts later.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

Haven't looked thoroughly thru the rankings, but what would jump out to me off of the top of my head would be that certain mons from Tier 1 have proven to be a cut above the rest. Maybe it's the old rankings talking but Mega Garde and Mega Gengar would seem to fit that description; I certainly don't see them in the same tier as something like Megazard for the reasons people already listed.

Wrt Tier 1: Kit is a great Pokemon, probably my favorite mon to use in this whole game, but it's kinda high. Frosty already said a bit so I'm not going into too much detail, but nice tricks + average power + average bulk isn't enough to me to put it in a tier that is supposed to be reserved for metagame-defining threats. Mainly looking at things like Mega Garde and Mega Gallade who have at the very least above average bulk and great power to go with an insane amount of tricks.

Also, frog. I don't think Greninja has any business being mentioned in the same sentence with Mega Garde, Mega Gengar et al. Yes Protean is a thing that exists, but ordering first with it is still extremely easy to capitalize on (thank you, 100/2/3 bulk). Also, its whole act (Protean Candy) can be neutered via item control and ability suppression, not to mention that Protean can be turned into an actual liability in the face of Skill Swap/Role Play/Trace which are things that all other mons in Tier 1 have. Also also, Frog has kinda few utility moves; speed control/spikes/Role Play/Taunt are nice, but when you're comparing it to Gallade, Gengar or even Mimers, then that's just sad.
Tl;dr: 1.5 seems like a more accurate ranking for ninja.

 

[Mowtom]

"Hi. Mowtom here. Aka that guy who really loves his Reuniclus."

Yes, I'm biased, but Reuniclus has to be 2 at the very least. Letting it sit in Rank 3 is criminal:

Pokémon in Tier 3 are on the edge of viability in the metagame, possessing a low amount of viability overall and having a lot of flaws or being highly matchup dependent and/or minorly outclassed, but have strong quirks that make them worth using.

Reuniclus does not have a lot of flaws. Arguably the only one is its terrible Speed. Its attacking power is unreal with 3/6 or 4/5 offenses depending on if you want to go Quiet or Brave, with great coverage in basically every important type and, of course, the all-important Magic Guard+Life Orb. Its 110/3/3 bulk isn't the best, but the -1 BAP to everything combined with immunity to passive damage make it certainty bulky enough to survive for a while. And its neutral Psychic hits hard enough and it has enough status moves that it usually does fine in non-bad matchups.

Compare to the R2 definititon:

Pokémon in Tier 2 possess an average amount of viability, possessing traits that make them worth using, but having noticeable flaws that stop them winning consistently and tend to be matchup-dependent.

Reuniclus doesn't like fighting Steel or Bug types usually, but it can do ok against Darks, Psychics, and Ghosts with Signal Beam or Shadow Ball. I wouldn't recommend it, but it can still work. And effective 110/5/3.666/9/3.666/slow is incredible and makes it very much worth using.

I can even see it being Rank 1.5, but one step at a time.

And if that doesn't convince you, just look at Bubble. Isn't she the cutest?

*lightly breathes in her sleep*

#reuniclusforpresident2k16

 

[Its_A_Random]

Azumarill: Moves to 2
Camerupt: Moves to 2
Castform: Unranked
Mega Charizard X: Moves to 1.5
Cyclohm: Moves to 2
Druddigon: Moves to 2
Gallade: Moves to 1.5
Gardevoir: Moves to 1.5
Gengar: Moves to 1.5
Kitsunoh: Moves to 1.5
Meloetta: Moves to 2
Reuniclus: Damnit Mowtom Moves to 2
Mega Slowbro: Moves to 2
Tomohawk: Moves to 2
Volbeat: Unranked

Agreed with most changes listed though I was on the fence on some and some I disagreed with like the Protean Pokémon; Greninja is still a solid force after the nerf and Kecleon is one of the best anti-metagame threats and while its offensive powers is a valid concern, I am not convinced that those powers are bad enough to drop in spite of it's many tricks and whatnot (Feel free to prove me wrong though). I am not completely comfortable with a Meloetta drop as it is deceptively strong from the limited time I have used it but it fits Tier 2 quite well to be honest. Volbeat was not discussed in this thread but I admit it was a mistake after a little talk on IRC. Besides it's too niche.

Keep it up, I will get working on a doubles list shortly when I deal with other responsibilities.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

Alrighty, so.
Someone on IRC mentioned how the VR are totally neglected, so I came here and... sheesh. Some random thoughts to at least make the thread less dead:

First, wrt Rank 2, I feel like we could easily start splitting into R2 and R2.5. I feel like there are certain mons that are better for the most part than others within the same tier, such as Druddigon vs Haxorus, Infernape vs Revenankh and Nidoking vs Mollux, but are close enough to not be split into R2 and R3.

If that were the case, I'd nom the aforementioned Drudd, Ape and Nido for the upper tier of Tier 2, as well as things like Mega Lop, Mega Luke and Reuniclus.

Some reasoning for the above

- Druddigon is one of the dragons that struggles the least with fairies, and that alone should put it a cut above Haxorus and Goodra. Yes, you're still going to have a bad time, but less so when you have Sheer Force Life Orb Iron Tail and Gunk Shot. Plus, it has the ability to go mixed, unlike Haxorus, and it can blow holes into most Steels with Sheer Force Fire Punch or Heat Wave. The lower speed can be remedied by a timely Glare, too, and Rough Skin helps it in damage races vs physical attackers that have only Ice Punch and Dragon Claw against it. Plus it has the Texas Seal of Approval so I'm bound to trust his judgement. Oh btw I forgot but it gets Stealth Rock too =)

- Infernape I think is also a cut above other fighters in the same rank, such as base Lucario and Rev. Unlike Rev, Ape can hit from both sides and has wide coverage both physical and special. Fire is a nice offensive typing as well, much better than Lucario's Steel without losing the ability to hit fairies because of the high BP of Infernape's Gunk Shot. Not to mention it has a ton more utility moves than either of the other two Fighters: U-Turn is gr9, Fire Spin is too (Endure breaker and trapping in one move!). Taunt and Torment are metagame-defining moves and so is Encore, Fake Out is so so useful, Stealth Rock is there as well, Counter can eat up subs... Hell, even Assist is hilarious every once in a while.

- Nidoking I'd also place a cut above other Poisons such as Mollux and Plasmanta due to its stupid stupid coverage, Sheer Force + LO, access to priority and its retarded Gen 1 movepool with stuff like Bide, Counter, Disable, OHKO moves, trapping moves, idk what else because this thing has like 135 moves. It's one of the rare Poison types that can actively beat Ground-types, unlike the other two who just curl up and cry at the sight of an EQ. Plus, no 4x weaknesses! Also, guess who gets Stealth Rock too ._. SR isn't even that important but it's funny to keep pointing it out

- Mega Luke is just dumb with Adaptability 6/5 offenses, so it can be a special beatstick and a physical nuke at the same time (yay!). Not much else to say here in comparison with the other Fighting-types in Tier 2 because there's more comments on this at the bottom.

- For Mega Lop, I might be totally wrong but it just strikes me as far better than things like Rev and base Luke because of the presence of random utility moves like TWave, Mirror Coat, Magic Coat and Fake Out. Also, Encore. (plus HJK is kinda strong idk)

- Reuniclus.

Also, if nothing else I think it's a travesty that certain specific mons are in the same tier as their megas. More specifically, someone please explain to me why base Luke sits in the same tier as Mega Luke, who has two ranks better Attack and Adaptability over its base form ._.
Same thing to a lesser extent with Slowbro, which I'm not sure why it's considered on par with its Mega when Megabro has 1 rank higher SpA, Shell Armor and ridiculous Defense. Also keep in mind that RC boosts Slowbro's Defense of all things, so it's not like its item interaction is the best.

So yeah, some basic thoughts to try and bring this thing back to life for a day or two.

Also I still think Frog is better at 1.5 but w/e, that's an argument I'm not gonna win.

 

[Dogfish44]

Usually mons and their megas end up in the same tier when you consider Mega Opportunity cost. Like, Mega Luke is stronger than Luke (Although Soothe Bell makes Regular Luke faster and still fairly strong), but it's not to the same degree that, say, MGarde is stronger than Garde - if you were doing a 2v2 Dubs with 1 mega, using Luke and Garde, most people would MEvo the Garde.

I mean, MSlow should be higher up for it's ability to shut down physical attackers completely, but in general I don't have an inherent problem with Megas matching their non-mega forme if their only benefit is 'hits slight harder'.

 

[Exclaimer]

Delphox to tier 3.

Delphox has a bunch of very redeeming qualities, including having that powerful Fire/Psychic typing, which lets it go toe-to-toe with stuff like Bronzong and Kitsunoh that would beat out a lot of other psychic types. It gets excellently powerful Fire STAB by virtue of Blast Burn + Mystical Fire alternation, and its coverage is decent. Grass Knot, Dazzling Gleam, Shadow Ball, Solar Beam, and Foul Play help with a lot of Delphox's opponents, like fat water types and frail ghost types. Doesn't mean Delphox can beat them, but it can dent them. Delphox also gets a bunch of Psychic tricks, like Wisp, Skill Swap, Magic Coat, Screens, and Snatch, though Delphox doesn't use them effectively because of RCB turns.

RCB + Magician is a fantastic combination, and lets it dominate common Pokemon like Bronzong and Kitsunoh and Aurumoth, abusing their life orbs or expert belts or rare candies while having awesome boosted stats. Even against stuff like base Sableye and Porygon2, it can neuter them by taking away their Everstones and never letting them have it back.

It's a very potent burst weapon with a few Psychic tricks, decent coverage, great STAB, and good matchups against some common stuff. Definitely deserves to be among the likes of Primeape, Delibird, Armaldo, Aromatisse, and Electivire.

 

[cityscapes]

IRC DISCUSSION TOOK PLACE AND HERE ARE THE STUFF

• Mega Gallade to 1.5 because it loses to stuff in 1
• Greninja to 1.5 because versatility is not as important as other stuff? I don't know what happened there
• Deoxys to 1 because you just can't kill it man!! maybe opportunity cost is part of the 1.5 thing tho

Also Gen VII came out so I think we should use this as a starting rank:

• SiIvally to 1.5. SiIvally is good because it can counterteam people and stuff. Kind of like Rotom, but it can be any type.
• Araquanid to 1.5. Water Bubble is totally balanced guys!!
• Toucannon to 2. Skill Link Rock Blast and Bullet Seed are good with a good Attack to work off. I could see this.
• Vikavolt to 2. It has a surprisingly decent movepool for a new mon, including Dig, Volt Switch, Aerial Ace, Guillotine, etc and Charged Stone is good for damage racing too.
• Mudsdale to 3? Matchup based but in a good matchup, it does stuff with WC 11. Grass Knot just destroys it tho and Gen VII movepool means it's not on the same level as Aggron.
• Muk-A to 3 or something. Excellent typing to beat Fairies and Psychics, and the stats to damage race effectively.
• Golisopod to 3? Good Ability, good typing, has some advantages over Araquanid I guess because of high Defense.
• Pyukumuku to 0.5 it's just that good

Obviously this is theorymon but there's no reason we can't change them of course

Let's discuss!

 

[Its_A_Random]

I'd rather just make a new thread for Gen VII material tbh though it will be a bit before that happens since this meta doesn't evolve as fast as say, simulator play.