Data ASB Viability Rankings

Status
Not open for further replies.

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
ASB VIABILITY RANKING

Welcome to the official ASB Viability Ranking thread. If you've visited the Viability Ranking thread for any other tier, you should be familiar with the concept of this thread - we will organize the Pokemon in our tier into ranks, varying on how good they are. You are encouraged to post your thoughts on where Pokemon should be ranked. Please note that each section is going to be in alphabetical order.

We currently have no "council" except for the mods - the people who have proven to be consistently good, quality posters in this thread (even those with differing opinions from the masses!) will be considered to help make the final calls.

In order to cut down on shitposting, please do not bandwagon posts. Unless you have new or different experiences to share, you are defending a nomination, or if the nomination has not been discussed for ~3 days, try to avoid repeating the same information someone else said before you.

Disclaimer: Please note, these rankings are just for fun and are a subjective ranking of what the general strongest ASB mons are. Pokemon strength is much closer in ASB than in regular mons, and Pokemon in D or C ranks will still often have excellent chances against Pokemon in the A ranks. Do not let this discourage you from purchasing any Pokemon you like, as aside from the truly terrible any Pokemon can be powerful in ASB.

---

Preliminary ASB Rankings

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon with dominating offensive, defensive, balanced, or support capabilities, almost always some combination of the above. These Pokemon will win 1v1 matchups most of the time and can take on more than one opponent in the right scenario. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

S

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon with capabilities that excel in one of the aforementioned categories. These Pokemon will win the majority of 1v1 matchups but suffer flaws that prevent them from dominating consistently. These Pokemon may be lacking in one quality or another that prevents them from succeeding against certain opponents.

A+


A

A-

B Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who given offensive/defensive niche or are overall balanced Pokemon who's parts enable them to perform effectively against many opponents. Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job every time and can be considered to win an average number of matchups. Such Pokemon are often type matchup dependent. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

B+


B

B-

C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support or matchups, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

C+


C

C-


D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time. Many of your favourite Pokemon will reside here.

D


E Rank:
E is for "Everything Else". If you're using these mons you're doing so for fun or for a very specific TLR/Raid niche. Unless you are an ASB god these Pokemon will lose more often than not.
...everything else. :pirate:
 
Last edited:

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Okay that should be just about all of them. If you're looking for a mon and you don't see it I either thought it was E rank, missed it, or was too tired by the end of it to give a fuck

Go nuts with pointing out your opinions of what should move
 
Can you also add "raids" to the "for fun or a very specific TLR niche" category? That could also be said about some of the D-tier picks, but eh.

...Is Rare Candy really that much better than Abomasite? (also why isn't Rhyperior 1 tier beneath Rhydon)

Finally...this is for singles primarily, right?

EDIT: actual finally: where is Pachirisu
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Can you also add "raids" to the "for fun or a very specific TLR niche" category? That could also be said about some of the D-tier picks, but eh.

...Is Rare Candy really that much better than Abomasite? (also why isn't Rhyperior 1 tier beneath Rhydon)

Finally...this is for singles primarily, right?

EDIT: actual finally: where is Pachirisu
Sure I'll add raids.

Imo yes, I don't think there's a big difference between the rocks, esp with new protector

Singles and doubles can both be considered, with singles given a somewhat stronger consideration die to prevalence.

Again, these are all preliminary rankings that I decided on and should in no way be considered gospel, I expect the community to argue to place them completely accurately
 
You forgot Porygon2 and Dusclops, who should have spots next to their evolutions imo. Maybe a rank lower.

Some opinions:

Tyranitar (and Mega) should be taken down a notch because they lose to anything with Low Kick, and also have a ton of other weaknesses.

Goodra should be B or B+, because it's one of the very few Dragon-types that can actually take ice-type attacks, and as such is very good vs Water-types (including quite a few Water/Ice) and can also easily beat most Electric-, Grass- and Fire- types. It doesn't have too many really bad matchups either.

Mega Aggron should go up to A- or A, because try killing it. Same for Dusknoir.

Why is Starmie A-? I don't think I've ever seen one used before.

Fidgit should go up to C+ maybe, because it has basically every support move in existence and can hurt opponents too, to an extent.

Alakazam and Clefable in C should go up to B tier somewhere, as they have a gazillion moves and cool abilities.

Braviary should go up to C at least, because holy fuck Sky Attack.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
P2 and Clops added

For reference there are currently 152 Pokemon tiered out of roughly 300ish with anything missing being E
 
Mega Aggron is easily taken down by most special STABs. They don't even have to be SE (and because of Mega Aggron's abilities it's probably better if they're not). It pretty much auto-loses to anything with WoW that's not weak to Heavy Slam or Head Smash (like Sableye, Gengar, Kitsunoh, etc.), as well as a lot of Ground-types (Garchomp, Hippowdon, Gastrodon, Swampert, etc.). Low Kick also hurts it quite a bit if it's coming from a strong Fighting-type like Mega Heracross or Mega Medicham. That said I could see it in A-, but it's got too many weaknesses for A.

Starmie is A- because of its insane speed and amazing coverage, though you could argue it for B+ or B. Illuminate also helps Hydro Pump, Thunder, and Blizzard hit, and Analytic is super fun with combos and Dive.

Also yeah if stuff like Alakazam and Garchomp are C Braviary at least deserves C because Sky Attack is strongth.

Also Hydreigon for C+/C imo. It's strong but not that strong compared to other powerful mons like Reuniclus (LO!), Rampardos, and Aggron, and its weaknesses really hurt.
 
Definitely don't think Gallade belongs in S, it's not a massive defining factor in the ASB meta like the other S-ranks are and I wouldn't say it's better or more influential than some A+ things like Pyroak. No higher than A+ imo

Also what is Ferrothorn doing in C+? It has absolutely zero coverage and once it sets up hazards and such it generally just roll over and dies against almost everything. C- at absolute best.

(Might add more to this later I see a few other things I glaringly disagree with)
 
Raids should not be counted, because the viability of Pokemon in raids is highly volatile and depending on current content.

That being said, I do have some remarks about this list

Gallade - From S to A+: Gallade is very good, but as other people pointed out, it just does not stand out as much as the other S Pokemon. In fact, basically most Flying-type and Fairy-type Pokemon beat down Gallade quite hard, while the other S Pokemon can't be defeated just through sheer type matchup.

Scizor - From A- to somewhere in B rank: The Fire-type quad weakness is just too big to be ignored. I mean, a quad-weakness is not necessarily crippling - Mega Heracross does fine even with Flying quad weakness (mainly because most non-STAB Flying-type attacks have abysmal BP). But Flamethrower, Fire Punch, and the other Fire-type moves are so widespread that the chances of NOT running into them is very low. To me, Scizor is in a very similar boat to Syclant (although it's fairly superior)

Mr. Mime - From B+ to somewhere in A rank: This guy is a lot stronger than it looks. It is deceptively bulky, and the priority granted by its sig. item makes him even more dangerous. Plus, as Gardevoir shows, Psychic/Fairy is one hell of a good type (Since neither Poison nor Fighting types will love switching into it).

Syclant - From B- to C+: As noted for Scizor, the Fire-type weakness is just too big to be ignored. But most importantly, just looking at the stuff in the two tiers shows that Syclant shouldn't even be there.

Ludicolo - From C+ to somewhere in B rank: Seriously, this guy is good. It has an excellent typing, great defensive and offensive abilities, a decent sig item, and a very diverse movepool. I dunno what would Ludicolo's "crippling flaws" be.

Goodra - From C+ to B+: I think this is mostly due to lack of playtime, but Goodra has no real "crippling flaws" to speak of, and is more than capable to go toe-to-toe with even a type disadvantage. It has a great movepool (especially for a VI gen Pokemon), a good typing, excellent stats, and great abilities.

Mega Absol - From C+ to B rank: This is largely speculation since none has yet used Mega Absol with a good movepool to my knowledge, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that a Magic Bounce Pokemon with nearly 100 moves and massive offenses/speed deserves more than C rank.

Smeargle - ???: To be quite frank, I have no idea of where to place this guy. Could be below D, could be above S... Only time will tell.
 
Ludicolo's crippling flaw is the lack of power. That movepool isn't helping it if it can't really do anything with it, since it consists mainly of offensive moves and 3/3 offenses are kinda bad. Also its abilities are kinda meh, and are only useful because Water Stone auto-activates them.
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus

Heatran: C/C- Rank (Maybe even D?)

Heatran pretty much fits the definition of C Rank to a tee. It has the potential to be ridiculously effective as a powerful offensive trapper and has a decent support movepool. Its offensive movepool is no slouch either but there is one major flaw that sinks it: Its typing. It comes with five quad resists, yes, but its weaknesses are dreadful, most notably its quad-weakness to Ground with no way to get around it by itself. To compare with some mons from S and A rankings:

Struggles vs. Mega Gardevoir thanks to Focus Blast, Loses to Gallade although Gallade fears a burn. Does okay against Sableye. Loses to Dragonite thanks to Earthquake. Mega Gengar is a bit iffy though Gengar will prevail through Focus Blast. Mega Lucario beats it. Cyclohm is more even though clohm can generally win with Hydro Pump. Has an easier time against regular Gardevoir than its mega. Loses to Snorlax. Struggles against Pyroak thanks to Earthquake. Generally wins against Necturna depending on her sketched move. ChariXard beats Heatran with Earthquake. Gengar can Focus Blast Heatran's face most of the time though the match-up is a little bit even. Revenankh beats it though it fears burn. Kitsunoh will generally beat it thanks to Earthquake though kit will struggle. Togekiss struggles against Heatran even if it has HP Ground. Mega Heracross beats it with Earthquake and does not fear burn. Krilowatt beats it. Aurumoth is more even though Heatran struggles here (Auru can steal Flash Fire too). Colossoil beats it. ChariYard will usually beat it since its Attack is quite decent to use Earthquake and Dig. Porygon-Z is a neutral matchup though HP Ground variants will hurt it. Lucario beats it. Rotom is a pretty neutral match-up though Washtom will be more of a problem. Mollux loses to Heatran. Tomohawk beats it. Mega Scizor loses to Heatran. Mega Tyranitar simply hits the Earthquake button. I think Stratagem gets Earth Power so Heatran struggles against it. Bronzong is quite a neutral matchup. Starmie beats Heatran though it fears Solar Beam. Porygon2 is harder for Heatran to beat than Porygon-Z and 2 will generally beat Heatran, especially if it has HP Ground.

A lot of struggles there, a few neutral matchups and a few winning matchups in that wall of text. It struggles a bit with a lot of the B Rank mons too, but it feels quite at home in the C Ranks with a lot of kinder matchups.


Volbeat: D Rank (or maybe C or C-)

We all know what he does with regards to Singles. It carries a Power Lens, it boosts to +6 Sp. Attack in one action with Tail Glow and then he either passes it off or it uses it for himself. Pretty small niche but Volbeat pretty much has a monopoly in that market thanks to Prankster. Thanks to the massive boost, Volbeat can actually put up a decent fight with some Pokémon in the higher ranks. Problem is though, it is (somewhat) crippled by Taunt with no way to reliably avoid it, it is massive encore bait, and then there are your usual stat boost counters and your opponent can take advantage with Psych Up. It can work in C but I am saying D just to be conservative.

===

Also Steelix and Nidoking should be in B+ imo (or maybe higher). The two do not have any major crippling flaws to speak of to deserve to be in the lower bounds of the B rank and these two benefited a lot from the Life Orb buff although they are somewhat reliant on it for major power. The two can win quite a lot of 1v1 matchups too. Looking at the S and A Ranks, both are pretty potent against:

Nidoking: Gardevoir (standard and mega, though risky), Gengar (standard and mega), Dragonite and Sableye to a degree, Lucario (standard and mega), Cyclohm, Pyroak, Necturna, ChariXard, Kitsunoh, Togekiss, Mega Heracross, Krilowatt (risky), ChariYard, Rotom, Mollux, Mega Scizor, Mega Tyranitar, Stratagem, and Bronzong.
Steelix: Gardevoir (standard and mega, though risky), Gengar (standard and mega), Dragonite and Sableye to a degree, Lucario (standard and mega, though risky), Cyclohm (risky), Kitsunoh (to a degree), Togekiss (to a degree), ChariYard, Rotom, Mollux (risky), Mega Scizor, Mega Tyranitar, and Stratagem.

That is quite a bit of matchups that they can do positively against. But yeah I feel the ranking of these two were done a bit too conservatively and I feel they deserve to be B+ at least.
 
I would consider adding Mienshao to D rank. It does have a niche thanks to its massive power and speed, plus it has good coverage for a D-rank mon. Its only flaw is that Pokemon such as Lucario and Gallade outclass it kinda badly, but it's hard to deny the sheer power of Mienshao's High Jump Kick.
 

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I might as well give my opinion on everything that is ranked atm over a post or three.

S Rank
  • Mega Gardevoir: Agree with S Rank.
  • Gallade: Other people have covered it and I do not have much to add here.
  • Dragonite: Agree with S Rank.
  • Sableye: Agree with S Rank.
  • Mega Gengar: Agree with S Rank.
A+ Rank
  • Mega Lucario: Not much of an opinion here but I guess it is okay where it is.
  • Cyclohm: Not much of an opinion here.
  • Gardevoir: Agree with A+ Rank.
  • Snorlax: Agree with A+ Rank.
  • Pyroak: Agree with A+ Rank.
  • Necturna: I think she should move down to A because she is not as great as she is being made out to be. She has solid bulk, she has a solid support movepool, she has some added unpredictability with Sketch but her coverage is rather shallow otherwise and really has to rely on Soak (not always available) or a crippling move to get past a disadvantageous match-up and Pokémon that gravitate towards S Rank should be able to do this consistently. I can see the majority of A+ and S Rank Pokémon being able to beat Necturna one on one and even A Rank is somewhat hostile towards it. Drop to A imo.
  • Mega Charizard X: Not much of an opinion here.
  • Gengar: Yeah okay it can stay where it is. Personally I would prefer it to be lower (to A?) on the basis that it is ridiculously frail and does not live long but I can be cool with A+.
A Rank
  • Revenankh: Agree with A Rank.
  • Kitsunoh: Agree with A Rank.
  • Togekiss: Not much of an opinion here.
  • Mega Heracross: Agree with A Rank though the quad Flying weakness is a bit of a downer.
  • Krilowatt: This should be A+ imo because 125/3/3 with immunity to passive damage, a competent damaging item, the ability to rebound attacks and its natural speed alongside a competent support movepool makes it super good. No reliable recovery (iirc) is a downer but I feel it can beat about 50% of those above it one on one maybe higher? I feel it should be higher.
  • Aurumoth: Agree with A Rank.
  • Colossoil: Agree with A Rank.
  • Mega Charizard Y: Not much of an opinion here.
  • Porygon-Z: This should move down to A- or Porygon2 should move up to A Rank. They are both just as good as each other overall despite their different niches and I cannot see why the two should not be in the same rank as each other. I guess reliance on Eviolite in 2's case could be the reason but even then Porygon2 has the advantage of a more "reliable" Analytic and being better with Trick Room. 2 and Z should be in the same rank imo.
A- Rank
  • Lucario: Not sure on this one.
  • Rotom: Personally I feel this should be lower though I guess the five appliances thing is a plus. But from my experiences with it, it is nothing spectacular. Personally I would give it a B+ or a B but I cannot be bothered making a compelling case for that and am okay with A- for now.
  • Mollux: Should be in B. The crippling Ground weakness is too big to ignore and Ground-type attacks are pretty omnipresent in ASB. At least it is immune to Water-type attacks and has reliable recovery unlike Heatran hahaha.
  • Tomohawk: Agree with A- Rank.
  • Mega Scizor: Move it to B. It is not that great, it has a crippling weakness... All it is effectively is a Scizor with +1 to all ranks and Scizor it pretty unspectacular itself.
  • Mega Tyranitar: IDK though the quad Fighting weakness is pretty relevant when you have quite a few Fighting-types in A- or higher.
  • Stratagem: Not much of an opinion here.
  • Bronzong: No real opinion here at the moment either.
  • Starmie: Agree with A- Rank.
  • Porygon2: See Porygon-Z.
I will probably look through the B's C's and D's later since I do not have the time to do it now.
 

Dogfish44

You can call me Jiggly
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributor
So, Mega Alakazam is seriously underrated here.

Move M-Alakazam from C+ to A+

  • 8 SpA is incredibly strong.
  • 4 exceptionaly strong abilities.
  • An obscenely large movepool and support pool. It was released in Gen 1, and it shows clearly.
  • +30 Acc, including 100% Acc Focus Blast, 90% Acc Hypnosis, 80% DynamicPunch/Zap Cannon, and plenty of other useful moves made very reliable.
  • One of the fastest Pokemon in the game.

M-Alakazam's only flaw is a lack of access to Pain Split. However, most of the other A+ Rank mons miss out on the lovely move as well, and have far more noticable flaws to handle.

fishedit: RE: IAR's below comment as to M-Alaka's frailness, the reason why Zam should probably go into A rank, whilst Gengar's S Rank, is because that Gengar has Pain Split, which is ASB's most powerful damaging/healing move. Which makes Gengar deceptively bulky ¬_¬
 
Last edited:

Its_A_Random

A distant memory
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Continuing on...

B+ Rank
  • Camerupt: Agree with B+ Rank.
  • Tyranitar: No idea on this one.
  • Aggron: This thing is really a master of extremes. It has two crippling weaknesses and its weight can easily be used against it yet it can use that weight to its advantage and hit like an absolute truck. I am not completely sure but I would say it is B rank.
  • Mega Aggron: Agree with B+ Rank though I would not mind a higher rank.
  • Mega Gyarados: No idea on this one, have not seen it anywhere so I cannot judge.
  • Infernape: Agree with B+ Rank.
  • Azumarill: Agree with B+ Rank.
  • Conkeldurr: Forgive me for the 2012-esque mindset when conk was considered ASB's best but I think it should go up to A- or even A. Life Orb buff really helped it out and allows it to muscle past even Pokémon due to three ridiculous offensive abilities and one of them circumventing the recoil on some of its attacks. It can definitely reliably beat at least half of the Pokémon in the above ranks imo and it should definitely move up. Its offence is really consistent too.
  • Haxorus: Agree with B+ Rank.
  • Greninja: S is for skill frog it should go there imo because nothing can beat such a pro mon Agree with B+ Rank.
  • Mr. Mime: A- or A. It is not outclassed by Gardevoir thanks to Odd Incense and its abilities and it can definitely beat quite a few of the Pokémon in A or S. Otherwise others have covered it well enough.
B Rank
  • Hydreigon: Has this thing even been popular since the new generation? Should go to B-.
  • Heracross: Agree with B Rank.
  • Scizor: Should go to B-. It is unspectacular, has a crippling weakness and it is basically not that much better than Mega Scizor who I have suggested to move to B.
  • Chandelure: I would not underestimate that natural Rank 6 Sp. Attack and its abilities. Quite a few mons in the above ranks are quite hostile towards it but I feel B+ is a fair assessment for Chandy.
  • Eelektross: Agree with B Rank.
  • Slowking: Should move to B+ or maybe even A-. The fact that it is immune to Taunt for a support-based mon is pretty big and it is quite competent as an attacker. Even its Speed is a minor downside when you have an untauntable Trick Room. It also has a really good matchup in general against most of the mons in B+ and even A-.
  • Slowbro: See Slowking.
  • Mega Mawile: Agree with B Rank.
  • Dusknoir: Agree with B Rank.
  • Mega Venusaur: No idea here.
  • Mamoswine: Agree with B Rank.
  • Mega Kangaskhan: No idea here.
B- Rank
  • Metagross: Agree with B- Rank.
  • Syclant: Already covered, should be C+ or C imo.
  • Nidoking: Already covered this in my first post.
  • Steelix: See Nidoking.
  • Carracosta: No idea here.
  • Gyarados: Agree with B- Rank.
  • Mega Blaziken: No idea here though I think B- is a little bit too low for it. B or B+ looks a bit more respectable.
  • Aromatisse: Easily B+. It is not really outclassed by Gardevoir since Aroma Veil and Big Root Draining Kiss are major reasons to use it, alongside its ability to beat a lot of higher tier threats. It has no real crippling weaknesses to speak of that warrants it being in the lower parts of the B Rank. Overall: B+.
  • Mega Blastoise: No idea here.
  • Kecleon: Should go up to B personally but I do not have much of an opinion on it. Protean + Colour Change is a really nasty combination though.
  • Cinccino: Agree with B- Rank.
  • Regirock: Should move up to B. No real weaknesses that can confine it to the lower parts of B and you would be surprised with how many of the upper ranks it can beat one on one. It is not that amazing but it is a solid B Rank imo.
  • Druddigon: Agree with B- Rank.
  • Dusclops: Agree with B- Rank.
C+ Rank
  • Ludicolo: FUCKLUDICOLO It looks like a solid B Rank Pokémon to me. It has been covered in earlier posts though.
  • Mega Aerodactyl: What crippling flaws does it have to deserve C+? It should be B at least due to insane speed among a few other things that I cannot really be bothered going over considering what I am doing.
  • Roserade: No idea here.
  • Charizard: No idea here.
  • Zoroark: Agree with C+ Rank.
  • Weavile: Agree with C+ Rank.
  • Gliscor: I can see this thing in B- actually. Sure it suffers a quad weakness to Ice but it is not outclassed by anything, its offensive capabilities are deceptively powerful (High BAP STAB, Razor Fang, Power Trick) and its natural bulk and support movepool allows it to stall if needed. It can even lay claim to being one of the few Pokémon that can effectively hard counter another FE Pokémon (in this case, the currently unranked Shuckle). It does suffer from the fact that it can be awkward as hell to use and it is the sort of Pokémon that takes some skill to effectively use but I feel that it is worth moving up to B- but no higher atm. Plus it is my signature Pokémon that makes it awesome right???
  • Venusaur: Agree with C+ Rank.
  • Mega Alakazam: Dogfish covered most of it but I feel like A or A- is more appropriate as a conservative ranking and it is also a bit frail... just like Mega Gengar... uhhh...
  • Whimsicott: Agree with C+ Rank.
  • Aegislash: The only thing it has over Kitsunoh is that it is a ridiculous mixed attacker and mixed wall, but not both at the same time. I guess it is not outclassed enough to the point where it can go up to B-?
  • Kingdra: I can also see this going up to B-. Focus Energy Dragon Scale Draco Meteor spam is no joke though sadly fairies and Freeze-Dry means it is finding things a bit more difficult... But still, that raw offensive power is worth a B- imo.
  • Regice: Agree with C+ Rank.
  • Ferrothorn: Is garbage as others have pointed out already. Iron Barbs and high bulk are its only saving grace. C/C- imo.
  • Mega Garchomp: Agree with C+ Rank.
  • Goodra: Others have covered it. B/B+ imo.
  • Clawitzer: Agree with C+ Rank.
C Rank
  • Aerodactyl: It deserves B- or C+, Power Herb Sky Attack is not to be underestimated (neither is Rock Slide spam) and it is not that much worse than Mega Aerodactyl.
  • Volcarona: Personally it could move up to C+ as it is undeniably powerful and it can be devastating in the right hands but I am okay with C as well.
  • Fidgit: Sadly this is not a doubles-based rankings list but otherwise, Agree with C Rank though I will not complain with C+.
  • Empoleon: Agree with C Rank.
  • Gastrodon: At least it can get past its counters with Countercoat and even up the scores with Pain Split. It deserves C+ at least imo.
  • Emboar: Kinda outclassed outside of Weight Class goodness and decent offensive stats, agree with C Rank.
  • Clefable: IDK yet depends on how well a maxxed Clefable goes.
  • Reuniclus: ehhh no real opinion though it looks more C+ / B- at a glance.
  • Alakazam: It is not that much worse than Mega Alakazam so I can see it being B- at least.
  • Chansey: Agree with C Rank.
  • Blissey: Agree with C Rank.
  • Delibird: Oh boy the Lethal Joke Character of ASB... It deserves to be a solid C imo which is great considering its "Joke Character" status. Maybe C+ but no higher.
  • Mega Medicham: I guess it is partially outclassed by Gallade but the fact that can hit like an absolute truck means that it is pretty underrated. It looks more of a solid B at a glance.
  • Mega Banette: This thing is better than what it is being ranked atm with Prankster and massive Attack, it deserves C+/B- at least.
  • Abomasnow: Agree with C Rank.
  • Mega Ampharos: Slow and somewhat outclassed by clohm, I guess B- or C+ is an ideal ranking for it, especially since it has a very high Sp. Attack to work with and it is quite bulky.
  • Shuckle: Agree with C Rank.
  • Mega Houndoom: Should go to C+ at least; the auto-activations from the Houndoominite make it a lot more powerful than it looks.
  • Mega Absol: We need someone with a well trained Absol before we think about properly ranking it though its frailty is a real downer I agree. It looks better than C though imo.
  • Garchomp: Agree with C Rank.
C- Rank
  • Honchkrow: Agree with C- Rank.
  • Machamp: Maybe it can go to C or C+ but it looks pretty outclassed... I am okay with C- Rank though.
  • Blaziken: See above.
  • Golurk: No Guard trolls... I can see it in C though.
  • Cradily: Agree with C- Rank for now though it can go up.
  • Scrafty: Agree with C- Rank.
  • Ninetales: Agree with C- Rank.
  • Castform: Agree with C- Rank.
  • Electivire: It looks quite outclassed... Agree with C- Rank though it can go up.
  • Magmortar: Agree with C- Rank though it can go up.
  • Tentacruel: Agree with C- Rank.
  • Crobat: Agree with C- Rank.
  • Sunflora: Great to see that my influence is being felt! C- is okay though I think it is a solid C.
  • Magnezone: Coronet Stone is really cool for it. So is Analytic. It can go up to C or C+ though.
  • Rhyperior: lol outclassed until Protector gets a buff if at all. Agree with C- Rank.
  • Rhydon: Can go up to C Rank. At the moment it outclasses Rhyperior and I do not think the two should be in the same rank.
  • Tyrantrum: Agree with C- Rank.
D Rank (i think i am missing the point of d rank by nomming lots for c- but this is going by definition of ranks or something idk)
  • Mawile: Agree with D Rank.
  • Braviary: Already discussed, can move up to C- at least.
  • Arghonaut: I guess it can go to C- at least? It is pretty unspectacular but it is not that bad to get D.
  • Lapras: Ehhh I could see it in C- at least but I am okay with D.
  • Smeargle: Until someone gets to max it... Well even then I am inclined to say it is B at the best. It is ultimate move control but its stats are so terrible hahaha.
  • Swampert: Bide, some increased speed and better Physical coverage is the only thing Swampert has over Gastrodon. Agree with D Rank for now though C- could work.
  • Milotic: No idea on this one
  • Salamence: Outclassed. Agree with D Rank.
  • Torterra: Such a shitty water counter for my gym lol. Agree with D Rank though C- is something I could agree on.
  • Froslass: No idea on this one.
  • Serperior: Contrary Leaf Storm really is a good niche eh? Well it is pretty okay and it could be worth C- at least but I am okay with D for now.
  • Excadrill: Classical example of something that is outclassed hahaha though high speed and a high dodge rate help it differentiate it enough to be D at worst. Maybe C-?
  • Blastoise: No idea on this one.
  • Arcanine: No idea on this one.
  • Ditto: Anything you can do it can do better... Yeah agree with D Rank.
  • Armaldo: Maybe worth a C- but it is pretty unspectacular at a glance.
  • Bisharp: Could be worth a look in at C- though I am okay with D.
  • Exeggutor: Agree with D Rank though I can see C- for it as well.
  • Jynx: C- or D are good options for it imo.
  • Medicham: Outclassed. Agree with D Rank.
  • Registeel: I can agree with C- for it since it is pretty hard to kill and it can make up for low speed with priority though D is okay for it.
  • Mismagius: Looks pretty outclassed though C- is something I am okay with.
  • Hippowdon: Sadly took a hit with the Sand Stream nerf though Sand Force means it can still abuse Sandstorm for its own powerful purposes. C- or C is something I am okay with.
  • Mega Abomasnow: Should be in the same ranking as Abomasnow imho (or one rank lower). The added bulk is pretty relevant I guess?
  • Audino: Agree with D Rank.
  • Dragalge: Ehhh its offensive power is potent enough for it to be worth a C- at least, maybe even C or C+. It is definitely not D imo.
  • Aurorus: Ehhh it could work in C- though I am okay with D.
  • Voodoom: lol outclassed unless you are running some Discharge spam Doubles team. Agree with D Rank.
  • Espeon: Ehhh it could be worth a look in C- or C, that Solar Ray is nothing to scoff at.
And that concludes my brief look over the current (initial) rankings*.**

*opinions are subject to change over time and i may not have done enough research with some entries but when you are looking at over one hundred and fifty entries...
**i apologise to anyone who dislikes tl;dr posts and i really should hide tag but uhhh...
 
Btw, why is Registeel so low? It can defeat nearly half the A-S list combined 1 on 1 with Everstone. It is at least C rank.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
To be clear, don't consider D to be the bad mins rank, that's E rank. I wrote up the tier descriptions as a guideline but imo they shouldn't be taken as gospel. I ranked them preliminarily more on gut on how powerful a given Mon is. And also to avoid upper tier inflation. So consider that with your noms. Zara, it a the worst of the four Regis and is generally considered subparagraph overall.

I should do updates later today.
 

Geodude6

Look at my shiny CT!
Might as well throw in my opinions on my (FE) team:
  • Braviary: (D Rank) Seems a solid C or C+ to me, that Sheer Force Sky Attack is nothing to scoff at. Its movepool is a bit underwhelming but who needs movepool when you're smashing things with 16 BAP STAB?
  • Blaziken: (C- Rank) It's not the best but methinks C- rank is a bit low; it still has 107 moves, and has some pretty high power.
    • Mega Blaziken: (B- Rank) Seems a solid B or B+ to me, maybe even A- but that might be pushing it.
  • Gardevoir: (A+ Rank) Haven't used him very much, but seems really good from what I've seen. Might even be S Rank.
  • Salamence: (D Rank) No argument here. Salamence has performed very poorly for me, and is generally outclassed by...pretty much every other dragon (except maybe Altaria)
  • Hydreigon: (B Rank) It's a powerful Pokemon, but that 4x Fairy weakness really hurts it. It's not terrible though. I could see this going to B-.
  • Aurumoth: (A Rank) Extremely powerful and extremely good. Should go to A+ or S imo.
  • Hitmontop: (Unranked) Haven't used it or seen it enough to make an informed comment, but from theorymonning I think this should go to C. A good ability in Intimidate, and good utility in Doubles+, but largely outclassed by other Fighting-types.
  • Charizard: (C+ Rank) Haven't used it enough to give an intelligent comment.
    • Mega Charizard X: (A+ Rank) Solid A+ or S rank; it's extremely powerful and has 5/5/100 offenses with Tough Claws, and nothing outright beats it.
  • Pyroak: (A+ Rank) I could see this going down to A rank now that its infamous 15 BAP STABS have been nerfed.
  • Rotom / Rotom-A: (A- Rank) See non-mega Charizard.
  • Darmanitan: (Unranked) No clue.
  • Camerupt: (B+ Rank) Agree with B+ rank, could maybe see this going to A- rank.
  • Syclant: (B- Rank) Haven't used mine enough to give an actual opinion; seems pretty good from other people I've seen using it.
  • Weavile: (C+ Rank) See above.
  • Emboar: (C Rank) Its powerful 15 BAP Reckless STAB has been nerfed, but I could still see this as C+ (maybe).
  • Talonflame: (Unranked) I could see this as D Rank or even E; mine has been largely underwhelming and I can't really see this going anywhere. It's definitely not a god like it is in OU.
  • Colossoil: (A Rank) Agree with A Rank.
  • Shuckle: (Unranked) D Rank or maybe C-, stall is an underpowered playstyle and Shuckle is the living embodiment of stall.
  • Gengar: (A+ Rank) Agree.
    • Mega Gengar: (S Rank) Disagree with S Rank; it's powerful but not godlike. I could see this bumping down to A+ rank and Gengar bumping down to A (maybe).
  • Mollux: (A- Rank) Haven't used mine enough to give a real opinion on it.
  • Shiftry: (Unranked) Solid D, it exists solely to be outclassed by Cacturne.
  • (Mega) Tyranitar: (A- / B Rank) These need to be taken down a notch as p. much anything with Low Kick kills it, and low kick is a pretty widespread move. TTar for B and Mega TTar for B+ IMO.
  • Scrafty: (C- Rank) Agree with C- Rank.
  • Greninja: (B+ Rank) I could definitely see this as A- or A; Protean is such a great ability both offensively and defensively.
  • Honchkrow: (C- Rank) Could maybe go to C for a similar reason as Braviary, Scope Lens + Super Luck gives it major offensive power.
  • Sableye: (S Rank) Solid S.
  • Zoroark: (C+ Rank) Haven't really used mine and haven't seen it used by any other player not named ED. Can't really offer an opinion on this.
  • Drapion: (Unranked) Solid C+ or B-, it's a deceptively powerflu Pokemon. Of course mine has like 30 moves so this is mostly theorymonning.
  • Snorlax: (A+ Rank) Could maybe see this as A as it's in the same boat as Tyranitar.
  • Musharna: (Unranked) Haven't seriously used mine and I can't really draw a conclusion from the times Leethoof (the only other Musharna owner) used his.
  • Pangoro: (Unranked) Could see this as a B- or C+. Iron Fist Hammer Arm is nothing to scoff at, especially since Pangoro will likely go last regardless of any speed drops or lack thereof. That quad Fairy weakness does hurt it though, and it's completely hard countered by Gardevoir.
  • Bisharp (D Rank) Agree with D Rank.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Confirmed changes

Tyranitar B
Mega Tyranitar B+
Goodra B
Mega Aggron A-
Alakazam B-
Clefable B
Mega Alakazam A
Hydreigon C+
Gallade A+
Ferrothorn D
Scizor B-
Mr. Mime A-
Heatran C
Volbeat D
Steelix B+
Nidoking B+
Mollux B
Mega Scizor B
Chandelure B+
Syclant C+
Aromatisse B+
Regirock B
Rhydon C


Needs more discusssion: specific rank suggestions

Krillowatt A+
PorygonZ A-
Aggron B
Conkeldurr A-
Slowking B+
Slowbro B+
Ludicolo B
Gliscor B-
Kingdra B-
Aerodactyl C+

Needs more discussion: open

Braviary - I honestly don't see what all the hype is about for Braviary. It's a bog standard beatstick that loses to anything that resists flying. Has minimal coverage and essentially zero support options/tricks. Sky Attack isn't that good of a move to see it out of D.
Mega Absol - Mostly theory so far
Necturna
Mega Blaziken
Mega Aerodactyl - Mostly theory so far
Magnezone
 
Last edited:
The only one of those I can really weigh in on is Braviary, and I agree that it should at least be bumped up to C-, if not C. Yes it insta-loses to things that resist Flying, but if you don't resist Flying and you don't have a multi-hit attack good luck tanking Sheer Force Life Orb Sky Attacks. The description for C rank basically describes it perfectly.

I also feel like Magmortar is too low; it has an excellent Speed tier and a solid support/disruption movepool, as well as lots of offensive coverage and an awesome signature item. It should be at least C+ and possibly even be B-. Notably, non-Mega Charizard is basically completely outclassed by Magmortar aside from being faster and having Fly.
 
Time to give my opinions on my own FE team! Or at least my strong FEs.

Cyclohm: Agree with A+
Haxorus: Agree with B+
Hydreigon: Agree with C+
Rotom: Move to B+/B
. Yeah I know we're tiering the formes together but each forme on its own isn't really that special. Its movepool is extremely narrow and while its defenses are nice and it's versatile, but even combined they're not really as impressive as other A-rank powerhouses like Stratagem.
Aegislash: Move to C/C-. lol let's be real this thing isn't that good. King's Shield is cool but there's tons of ways around it.
Tyranitar: Agree with B. Mega Tyranitar: Agree with B+
Slowking: Agree with B
Dragonite: Agree with S
Garchomp: Agree with C. Mega Garchomp: Agree with C+
Kingdra: Yes to B-.
It's got lots of power, and although it's a bit lacking in terms of SE coverage, its neutral STABs will outdamage most foes after Focus Energy.
Infernape: Agree with B+
Revenankh: Agree with A
Medicham: Agree with D. Mega Medicham: Agree with C.
Tomohawk: Agree with A-
Gallade: Agree with A+
Lucario: Agree with A-. Mega Lucario: Agree with A+
Ludicolo: Yes to B
, maybe B-. What it lacks is offensive presence, but it makes up for it in the amount of passive regeneration it gets. Ever tried killing a Leech Seeding Teeter Dancing Water Stone Ludicolo (without Freeze-Dry)?
Gastrodon: Agree with C
Necturna: Agree with A+.
While it needs Soak to occupy its Sketch slot, what else could it reasonably use there? Sacred Fire, which won't be available until someone catches Entei? Magma Storm? Soak is a wonderful move, letting you turn any matchup (except against Sap Sippers I guess) into an advantageous matchup for 6 actions with a single move. It also removes the opponent's STAB, which is nice on mons like Magmortar.
Fidgit: Agree with C
Kitsunoh: Agree with A
Steelix: Agree with B+
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
For the record the more you suggest with one liners in one post the harder it is to read.

I'm going to say you've got two days to get the first round of global suggestions done and then we'll go rank by rank starting with S and A+
 
...Incidentally, should Sigilyph be in as at least a D? It does get Tinted Lens, Wonder Skin, Fly, Psycho Shift and more special coverage (along with Flying STAB and neutrality to Bug) to differentiate it from Reuniclus.

Other "random stuff that MIGHT be D-rank" mons:

Exploud: Scrappy+STAB+mono-STAB Rare Candy Boomburst and decent special coverage.
Lopunny: Pretty decent support movepool, rank 5 special defense with Soothe Bell, and pretty decent coverage (especially in the Fighting department); might be like Mawile as a D-rank mon that has/eventually will have a better-ranked mega evolution. I'm suspecting we'll get a closer look when OR/AS come out and Mega Lopunny the Hypothetical Sableye Slayer with it, but for now it *might* be D-rank material?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top