1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Ask A Little Question, Get A Little Answer

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Dubulous, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,369
    EDIT: Is this not simple enough for SQSA? :/


    Well as Gengan said there isn't a "best" fire type, there's just some that work and some that don't.
    The most common are probably Ponyta and Larvesta followed by Houndour, Darumaka and Numel.
    Ponyta and Larvesta are great with Flame Body as it can discourage Mienfoo from U-Turning through your team for fear of a burn. Larvesta also has bug typing which can be very useful to resist fighting. Ponyta doesn't have the fighting resistance but can be a semi-reliable Murkrow check and can speed tie with it. They're the two best in my opinion.
    Life Orb Houndour is a very good wallbreaker with a great Sp. Attack stat, but being weak to many priority moves and frail in general means it will die very quickly.
    Darumaka is powerful but kind of unreliable due to hustle. It can pretty much only use Choice Scarf, but imo Larvesta outclasses it, due to getting STAB U-Turn.
    Numel is the most interesting pokemon I mentioned and it doesn't have that SR weakness which is cool. It can run a solid Stockpile RestTalk set with simple; once you remove water types can be solid, but it's often hard to get Set Up opportunites. I remember Ray Jay paired it with Lileep which handled waters to make a very good defensive core.

    Obviously, all these pokemon have problems with hazards so Staryu or other rapid spinners are necessary. Staryu can switch into water moves too, but obviously has trouble switching into Chinchou, the most common water type in the tier.
    All of these pokemon appreciate hazards as Larvesta and Darumaka can force switches with U-Turn and it helps Houndour to nail KOs. Lileep counters every water type in the tier and sets up Stealth Rock.
    Snover makes an interesting partner; it can switch into water types and also remove sand as Drilbur can outspeed and OHKO every pokemon that I mentioned.
    Basically, support it by removing hazards and good water type checks.

    Those are my thoughts and just some ideas of good supporters, I hope I helped!
  2. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,530
    Thanks for the detailed response, Corkscrew, it's very helpful :) Ponyta, Darumaka, and Houndour are the ones I am most interested in so far; Numel lacks some punch, and I detest Larvesta's quad SR weakness. If I were to use Darumaka, it would have Inner Focus, since missing loses games.
  3. FrostFireBolt

    FrostFireBolt

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    How viable is Cranidos as a Rock Polish sweeper in this metagame? I can think of a fairly good team to support him and counter his checks but when looking at the recent usage stats I wasn't sure what he could really set up on (I haven't played LC in a while so I'm not really sure of the kind of sets most Pokes run these days).
  4. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,369
    I've thought about using Rock Polish Cranidos also and due to its immense attack it could work. However you have to remember that Cranidos is very frail and therefore the majority of priority moves will hurt him greatly. If your opponent has Croagunk, Timburr or Tirtouga there is pretty much no point in trying to set up.
    Without those Pokemon it's going to be very difficult to pull of a sweep anyway; as you noted it's very difficult to set up. Even Murkrow deals a minimum of 66% with Sucker Punch so it is very risky to try that. Your best bet is to set up on a fire type like Larvesta, but make sure you remove all priority users/faster scarfers first.
    So yeah, basically it's not that great. Cranidos is best used as a very powerful scarfer who can revenge kill easily or damage a switch in.
  5. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,689
    He's not exactly "frail" he just struggles to set up and even with that mammoth attack, misses some crucial OHKOes. Corkscrew is right though, it does struggle against those Croagunk Timburr Murkrow and Tirtouga priority moves. I have used it in the past, and you can attempt to set up on a few things, notably silly opponents using Meowth and Aipom, Brave Bird Murkrow after it revenge kills something, Larvesta or Ponyta if its using a more defensive EV spread, and probably a few other things. The problem is so much of the metagame (Staryu, Chinchou, Lileep, all the Fighting-types, Misdreavus, Foongus and Shroomish, and the list goes on) possess a super effective attack so it can be tough to set up.
  6. FrostFireBolt

    FrostFireBolt

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    Yeah, after testing the set on PS I've found that while not a complete deadweight he just has too much trouble switching in and setting up. The problem in most games was that after I had removed anything threatening to his sweep, the game was over. Just about everything popular these days carries a move that can KO him.
  7. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    383
    I would like to know why Mudkip is not viable. Sure, there are plenty of water types, but Mudkip does have access to a pretty good movepool.

    Show Hide

    Mudkip @ Eviolite
    Trait: Does not matter
    EVs: 196 Atk/116 Def/196 Sp Def
    Adamant/Careful Nature
    -Curse
    -Waterfall
    -Superpower
    -Avalanche

    The point here is simple: charge up with Curse, and then select your move. Waterfall is STAB, Superpower scars Ferroseed, and Avalanche gives coverage. While there are many Water types in LC, this is a possible set, as is a Trick Room set with Curse.
  8. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,747
    The problem with this set is that Mudkip really lacks the power to do anything despite having curse, and the fact that everything and its mother has eviolite really doesn't help its cause either. Mudkip fails to OHKO lileep with Superpower even after +1 (I think) and lileep can simply giga drain any damage it takes, resulting in an easy 2HKO for the Grass type. In addition, trick room requires time and patience to set up, and is more so a gimmick than a viable strategy in little cup. However, this should not attempt to discourage you in your future endeavors of trying to make Mudkip viable.
  9. Salamence97

    Salamence97

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    On a sandstorm team, is using Overcoat on Shelmet a good idea? Though I'm currently using Shell Armor, but removing the residual damage could help.
  10. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,091
    Yes, Overcoat is definitely worth it.
  11. KingTorterraXIV

    KingTorterraXIV

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Depedns, if you want to win stall wars against Scraggy, use Shell Armor, cause if it crits, you will be very much dead.

    Any other time (especially if your using weather) just use Overcoat, like iss said
  12. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,689
    I would argue that due to the prevalence of sandstorm and even hail, Overcoat is worth it 99% of the time. Teams break through Shelmet via special attacker in combination with residual damage, meaning if you can invest a bit in Shelmet's Special Defense then threats such as Chinchou become a lot less scary. Furthermore, it can be tough to find times to use Recover early game with Shelmet, so Overcoat can ease that burden. About the point about Scraggy; most good Scraggy players won't be keeping it in against Shelmet, so the point is largely moot there, but whatever floats your boat.
  13. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    337
    Why was Sitrus Berry (heals a flat 30 HP) allowed in ADV Little Cup, but Berry Juice (heals a flat 20 HP) banned in Gen IV+ Little Cup?
  14. Fiction.

    Fiction. Believe in los tigres.

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    389
    because no one plays adv LC so it doesn't matter.
  15. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,689
    To my knowledge, there are no standing tiering decisions on items or Pokemon in Gen III Little Cup.
  16. JacobNinja

    JacobNinja

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    174
  17. Gengan

    Gengan

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    542
    It's not released iirc.
  18. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,091
    The Gothorita that has Shadow Tag is male-only, so it cannot pass Shadow Tag to Gothita.
  19. JacobNinja

    JacobNinja

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    174
    Thanks! So we have to wait for litwick to get a decent shadow tagger in lc... Theorymoning, this litwick
    Show Hide
    Litwick @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 196 HP / 156 SDef / 156 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Will-O-Wisp



    could be incredibly dangerous
  20. Gengan

    Gengan

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    542
    Er, no. Not really. There's barely any SpAtk investment. Maybe if you had Calm Mind > WoW, 156 SpAtk > 156 Def, and Shadow Ball > Psychic it'd be a teensy bit threatening.
  21. JacobNinja

    JacobNinja

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    174
    But finally having a trapper with decent immunities will be very dangerous, killing choiced pokemon like eevee and the occasional deerling, along with most timburr and mienfoo not running u-turn.
  22. Gengan

    Gengan

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    542
    Exactly why Calm Mind is useful in those situations. You can boost to hell and back in front of Choice-locked Pokemon when they can't hit you, and then destroy everything with the appropriate move.
  23. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,747
    There are three things wrong with your post:

    1) no one uses eevee or deerling. I think you meant to say "snover".
    2) timburr is uncommon (not gonna say no one here); I think you meant to say "Croagunk not running Stone Edge"
    3) no one is dumb enough to use mienfoo without u-turn.

    This Pokemon is decent, I must say. I have to put this on a team where I need to trap things...it's like Wynaut only with attacks. Probably the best on a sandstorm or a team weak to steels (do people still use steels in LC?) not named pawniard would probably work. Shadow tag gives it something better than pursuit on houndour, but the typing isnt the best because of stealth rock.

    Edit: I think sub/cm/shadow ball/fire blast OR flamethrower would be best
  24. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,091
    This is SQSA, not the place to theorymon.
  25. JacobNinja

    JacobNinja

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    174
    would a mod mind posting an official thread for the lc uu challenge I've seen going around? I made a team 100% below 5% usage for August 2012, and it's pretty fun

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)