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Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - mark 24 (READ THE OP)

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Haunter, Jul 2, 2010.

  1. Unholy Confessions

    Unholy Confessions

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    And how about for NU?
  2. scwizard

    scwizard

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    Why can't I equip my pokemon with Air Mail in Shoddybattle?

    You know, as a trick counter.
  3. Trent

    Trent

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    Oct 14, 2009
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    Yes.

    If you know how to build a (sinister-looking) team around them, I suggest:
    OU- Tyranitar (Choice Scarf or Dragon Dance)
    UU- Houndoom (Nasty Plot or Mixed) or Absol (Choice Scarf)

    Not quite. For every four EVs your Pokemon has in a stat, it gets raised by one point at Lv100. For example: 20 EVs in Attack = 5 added points to Atk in Lv100.

    ================

    Some items weren't implemented into Shoddy Battle.
  4. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Mail has not been implemented in Shoddy Battle, wait for the release of Shoddy Battle 2
  5. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Not really 'rumored' since you can check their progress yourself if you so wished, they even provide the links to do so in this thread:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72674

    Seeing as these guys are doing it for free and using their own time I don't think we have any right to expect a deadline.
  6. Hcapt

    Hcapt

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    Suppose I wanted to test a bunch of Uber pokemon at once. I don't think the tiering of a particular grouping of Ubers is still justified, and that they could balance eachother's usage out in the OU tier (Latias, Latios, Shaymin-S, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Garchomp, Salamence, Ho-oh, Manaphy, Wynaut)

    Now, I would like to test this theory by putting them all in a Suspect tier, and systematically removing any pokemon that exceeds 30% usage as overcentralizing (overcentralizing does NOT mean that it has no counter since I've never subscribed to the theory that all pokemon need counters, but rather that the game has become to uniform due to their usage, with a match penetration of 50%), even ones that may not be currently Uber (as adding two pokemon to OU at the cost of one would still be net gain). It may also involve eliminating some overused moves that appear in 80+% of matches/teams (if everyone carries stealth rocks or Outrage, then those moves might be overcentralizing). It's basically a test to see what the metagame would be like if the most centralizing features were removed, rather than pokemon that don't have counters like smogon does.

    How would I create a server to test this, using the above suspect rules?
  7. Hcapt

    Hcapt

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    Actually, I think I would like to start that server simply using all the Ubers, and eliminating them as they overcentralize. Kyogre, Groudon, Palkia, Dialga, and Rayquaza would be autobanned, and maybe Deoxys-e, as their usages are already above the threshold. I'm not sure if that changes the question.

    The point is, we grandfathered in most the Uber metagame, and after over 10 years of shifting game mechanics, I'm curious if our Ubers is really overcentralized in the way we decided it was, and would like to test out the OU metagame again from scratch. Though with Black and White around the corner, it can wait until we can add the Black and White Ubers to the mix.
  8. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
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    Honestly? That's a horrible idea. Adding all of those Pokémon to Suspect would very much overcentralize the metagame, I think when combined together, they would probably have the majority of the combined usage for OU, and Deoxys-S would undoubtedly become the best and most commonly used lead and dwarf practically every other lead available

    And Smogon isn't Karen about your private Suspect tests just for the record.
  9. Nidpenguin

    Nidpenguin

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    Can Pokemon with Guts attack when asleep?
  10. Emperor

    Emperor

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    .-. question got totally ignored
  11. Hcapt

    Hcapt

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    Oh, I know it doesn't. I'm more interested in the mechanics of creating a server in shoddy, and expect nothing from smogon in the way of agreement with the method. I'm mostly adding the extra information because the server needs to use different rules than smogon, and I'm not sure how to implement them.

    The heart of the problem is I know quite a few competitive websites that outright reject the smogon method of determining Ubers, and fairly large communities that refuse to compete using the shoddy ruleset as a result.

    What I could really use much more than a server to test a couple silly theories though is a server designed around real-life tournament rulesets, as the shoddy rules aren't useful for me unless they help me for the real thing. Either way, I could use server advice.
  12. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Only if they have the move Sleep Talk

    This only works if the opponent isnt holding an item
  13. lordkira

    lordkira

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    Does anyone know if this Japanese guy posted an Arceus work on his site?
    The link is below...I am sure most of you guys or many of you guys know of his work.

    http://pearlsaurus.fc2web.com/
  14. Hcapt

    Hcapt

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    The thing is that I'm dealing with a couple of different types of guys.

    On the one hand, I've seen a lot of people that are into fighting games. Those guys hate bans, and disagree with the logic smogon uses when it initiates a ban. If they started from scratch, Kyogre would be borderline at best, because it's only in 50% of uber teams. They would require a supermajority vote for a pokemon that is in 50% of all teams, and only believe in bans when a pokemon is so overcentralizing, the metagame becomes broken. That's just the way fighting gamers are about bans.

    Though due to how the pokemon metagame developed, they do recognize the uber tier. But they don't recognize Salamence, Latias, or Garchomp as belonging in it, and will not host a tournament where those pokemon are banned. They argue that the Latias ban was unjustified by their interpretation of smogon standards, and noted that Scizor and stealth rocks are both much more central to the metagame and believe that both should have been banned before Latias. But even in cases where the ban was justified by smogon standards, it wasn't broken enough for theirs. Thats the first type of person I'm interested in making a ruleset for.

    On the other hand, I have friends that don't use shoddy rules in their games, and most certainly don't recognize even some fundamentally broken moves, like double team, as belonging out. They want the rules used within the game, and to even have Arceus allowed. They also recognize a type of Uber, but they don't recognize Garchomp as in it because they simply use the battle tower ban list. That's the second ruleset I'm interested in making.

    The third ruleset I'm interested in is to simply mirror pokemon battle revolution and tournament venues. It would be the best way to practice. But because it's impossible to test the effectiveness of shoddy-banned moves in shoddy and plan a team accordingly, it's hard to prepare for the double teamers that the tournament allows but shoddy doesn't.

    Basically, I'm interested in making a shoddy server. Where do I begin?
  15. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Here is Arceus

    Here is the index of all Pokemon
  16. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
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    Basically, you're just fueling stupidity. You're saying that those idiots would ban Scizor before Kyogre? By that horrendous claim, it's obvious that what they are in desperate need of is a proper tiering system. I think Smogon is a pretty cool guy. He enforces a reasonable tiering system and doesn't afraid of anything
  17. scanda

    scanda

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    Which would make a better Rain Dance setter. A Scizor or a Zapdos?

    Scizor loses its weakness to fire, but on the other hand Zapdos can rain Armageddon with Thunder to anything that doesn't resist it.

    I'm sorta stuck in the middle of choosing. :(
  18. Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Cipher Admin Lovrina

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    What about pokemon like Corsola, Swampert, Azumarill, Blastoise, Lapras, Claydol, Jirachi, anything with roost, Milotic, Salamence, or Arceus?
  19. lordkira

    lordkira

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    personally, i do like smogon's meta.
    it's a meta that tries to be balanced, which works well in my honest opnion.
    however, i can't argue against your point that not too many people around the world uses this tier list. I've been to japanese and korean tournies and most of them have their own thing and it's HUGE...i mean huge. they do have a tiering system but most of those guys play doubles and they don't exactly have a ban list.
    to be clear, many of them followed the vgc rules, which makes sense.
    i guess it's just a different meta :/
    but oh man...when random battles come out with black and white (hopefully they will restrict hackers or illegal pokemons at least)...they will flourish with ubers.
    heck it would be like pbr imo -_____________________-

    Now, onto my question, if Arceus was ever to become legitimately obtainable with the EV-tweeking capabilities (meaning you don't have to capture it at lvl.100), which set do you guys see flourishing the most? Personally, I think it would be the Extreme Killer (SD+ES) but what do you guys think?

    edit: crap I should've editted on the previous post, sorry fellas. -_-^
  20. Shining Kestral

    Shining Kestral

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    Just chiming in to say I'm using a three year old laptop with Windows and Shoddy works just fine with little to no lag at all. I do agree that Java is a resource eater though.

    Pokémon Online is another battle simulator.

    @LordKira: With Arceus' versatility, I don't see any one set becoming dominant. Just going through the QC boards alone showed me that Arceus has a buttload of options to choose from and it can fulfill a ton of roles. SD+ES would probably be a top set for Normal Arceus though.
  21. min min

    min min

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    @argument about uber suspect ladder thing
    I think that what others fail to realise is that the Uber metagame is their "ideal game". I don't think the general community outside of Smogon enjoy a game where all you must use, or risk getting defeated, are 5/6 lengendaries. I do agree that Smogon is a little too ban-happy with tiers.
    *please don't ban me for saying that*
  22. Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Cipher Admin Lovrina

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    Does Refresh suck on all of them?
  23. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Most of these Pokemon have better things to do with their movesets, Milotic actually likes status, and most people would rather use a cleric with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to support the whole team rather than sticking Refresh on one Pokemon.
  24. coolking49

    coolking49

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    arceus likes refresh, depending on its type, so it cant be poisoned. Of course, if you are really so concerened I would just run poison/steel arceus and avoid it.
  25. Destiny100

    Destiny100

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    On a team of
    -Skarmory
    -Gyarados
    -Rotom-h
    -Heatran
    -Snorlax
    -Breloom

    It's a decent team and I want to make a wifi team. My question is, what should I replace rotom-h with?
    Atm I'm using the defensive set with t-bolt, overheat, reflect and shadow ball. Any help would be good thanks :)

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