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All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jellicent, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer does it for free
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    Bellyzard is imo pretty hard to play because of the support it needs. Paralysis is your friend, getting Raikous or Zapdos' down is crucial. You basically need to weaken everything that doesn't get ohkoed by a max attack eq or rs or a fire blast. Blissey needs to be at ~85%, cloyster at ~78%, heracross at 78%, machamp at 72%, Marowak at ~69%, Snorlax at 60%, Starmie at 80%, Suicune at 54%, Umbreon at 57%, Vaporeon at 70%. Those are all the "relevant" things that do not get ohkoed when you are at 999 attack (don't quote me at the calcs, always check them yourself, it's also the minimum rolls btw). Charizard is the fastest drum user, the only things that outspeed it are Raikou, Starmie, Gengar, Jolteon, Alakazam, Espeon and the rarer seen Aerodactyl, Jumpluff and Tauros. Zard ties with Zapdos, Tentacruel, Miltank, Typhlosion, Entei and other Zards obviously. Basically get para on these things or get them out of the way completely, then you "only" need a free turn of setup and you can sweep with zard. Those free turns of setup can be created by inflicting status and just channeling your luck or with Screens support. Meganium does do that quite well, even though you might also go with more conventional screens setters like blissey, raikou, etc. Ususally nobody will instantly switch out of zard because they are afraid of the drum, so they will probably just attack it with what they have and hope for the best. You can also always force something to rest and just hope for your luck with sleep talk rolls to get a free setup.
    The setup is quite complicated. If you want to go for the zard sweep you gotta make sure to take out the listed things. Cloyster pairs pretty well with it since it can explode on raikou, starme, zapdos. and it actually 3hkoes gengar, which usually has no room for a recovery move. All of those are pretty likely to come in on it. The others that outspeed are not as common in OU, but paralysis is a great backup plan here. Miltank is usually pretty hard to break, you can lure it with drumlax, lovely kiss lax, selfdestruct lax, etc. Curselax is in fact NOT obvious. I know curse is the best set, but depending on your team you can always tailor it to whatever you want it to do, and getting rid of miltank is really handy. Spikes are useful, especially since the residual damage will help you getting things that aren't ohkoed into safe ohko range, again cloyster pairs pretty well here.
    Generally i am not a big fan of agili passing jolteon. It's just so obvious that it's going to pass, everyone who played gsc once will know what is going to happen, and it doesn't even matter if it's passing growth, a sub or agility. Raikou also makes its life hard. Spreading paralysis is generally more useful and convenient. Since you are dedicating your strategy to a bellydrum sweep you might as well use up a couple of moveslots to support that exactly. Exeggutor likes to spread status generally, Snorlax can spam body slam, your electric can always fish for thunder(bolt) paras, you get the point.
    I'm gonna let you be a little bit creative when building your team there, because when i just post a team on here it is very likely to end up being bad because i didn't test it, maybe someone has a zard team spare for you on here.
    When you say this is for in-cart you still mean competitive in the form of gsc ou, right? Because when it's an in game team i wouldn't bother with any of the above stated.
    totoTavros likes this.
  2. SimJiv

    SimJiv

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    Yes, it's competitive against a few friends. We are all aware of the GSC OU, but have never really played by it's meta since it is mostly for fun. This time though, it is more serious - however it might be so that we will ban legendaries, which will help Zard a lot. I am not sure how we will do it yet. Anyways, thanks for tips and hints on dmg. I would love something that could force switches for spikes dmg (skarm/steelix/rhydon/kanga IF legends banned?) and also for Curselax to get some work done. I will look into your suggestions, thanks! :)
  3. totoTavros

    totoTavros

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    Wait, so are you trying to run a CurseLax team or a BDZard team? LK/Self Destruct Lax sounds like it might be the better option for BDZard
  4. Isa

    Isa

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    i was thinking resttalk lax with body slam for para spreading but idk
  5. SimJiv

    SimJiv

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    I can't get LK (it's NYPC) and Curselax is just so good that he needs to be on all teams pretty much. I will use him as a wall and a counter to enemy snorlax, and he can also put a dent into enemy walls to make way for a late BD Charizard team.
  6. totoTavros

    totoTavros

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    CurseLax is very good, but you can customize Lax to be better for your team. Curselax imo seems to be better as a last mon lax, while you're going for a last mon zard scenario.
  7. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer does it for free
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    Like i said, curselax is best lax, but lax has other options that you can make use of. When running a fire blast bellyzard there isn't really alot need for bothering with a fire move. Self destruct and belly drum both help breaking miltanks (and suicune to some extent), which is great support for zard. If you have other ways of breaking miltank you can always roll with bslam curse resttalk, which is different support, but body slam paras can always come in handy. What works that works.
  8. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Drop Jolteon. There isn't anything you need Agility passed to on that team; Mie/Zard are fast enough already, Meganium and Forretress can't attack, and CurseLax doesn't benefit a great deal from Agility since a) Curse takes away the speed boost, b) everyone carries CurseLax walls (and by the way, it won't make a dent in those walls unless you're facing some kind of hyper-offensive team with Suicune as their only fallback; Skarmory, Tyranitar, Gengar, and Misdreavus all take very little damage from the Lax variants they're supposed to counter, although Steelix does take a fair bit from EQ Lax). In Jolteon's place, stick Zapdos: Zapdos does a great job of putting dents in Snorlax, and can paralyse Raikous with Thunder or Thunder Wave.

    Put Steelix (or Golem) on your team in Starmie's place. They draw bulky Waters and Explode on them, something you desperately need. Steelix is the better Pokemon, but Golem isn't forced to trade with Skarmory, can Spin if you really think it's essential (with two flyers and an offensive bent, I don't think it is) and synergises decently with Forry (depending on set) for defense against opposing Lax (though again, with Meganium you're not in that bad a position anyway).

    Those are the most obvious to me, but I'm no expert.

    Oh and no, Venusaur's nowhere near as good as Meganium. Meganium has Ground resistance and Psychic neutrality, while being bulkier - and what's Venusaur doing that Meganium isn't?
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
    totoTavros likes this.
  9. Isa

    Isa

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  10. totoTavros

    totoTavros

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    There are a decent amount of RMT's in the Smog, that's how I first experienced DPP OU.
  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Isa said UU, not OU.
  12. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    The DPP RMT Archive has some great UU teams, granted not all of those are still legal. The DPP UU Speed Tiers is another useful resource. A quick CTRL+F of "UU" in the DPP Warstory Archive might be helpful. Possibly more helpful is doing the same thing in The Smog Archives (anything before Issue 15 should still be DPP). Some of those articles are outdated, but there's sure to still be good info in them. Eo's UU Metagame Analysis gives a comprehensive look at the top 20 in usage at the time, and Heysup has a cool guide to UU Offense. There are quite a few articles worth reading, including other metagame analyses, featured Pokemon, featured RMTs, etc., so definitely check it out ^.^
    Isa and BKC like this.
  13. Isa

    Isa

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    Much appreciated. Thanks a lot!
  14. Sympath

    Sympath

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    heelloo !!
    This is my 1st time posting, and I hope you can help me. I have been learning about IVs and Evs, Natures and everything for 2 days now because I want to replay PKMN games with perfect team. I have a few Q so lets start:
    1. What game is better for perfect IV breeding Ruby/Sapphire or Emerald? (I know both are not so good for breeding but I will start my PKMN adventures with Hoenn)
    2. In my team I want: Metagross, Milotic and Salamence. Just the three of them for now. What moves/natures/EVs are the best for this trio? My only request is that Salamence has Hydro Pump. (Yeah, I have read Smogon individual PKMN stats and best EV and move combinations, but they are, like I said individual. I plan to use MIlotic, Salamence and Metagross as a trio and I would like to know best EV/nature/movesets when the three of them are in combination.
    PS: I plan to use them to obtain as much battle frontier ribbons I could get and get competitive on WIFI battles.
    PS#2: I have posted my Q on several forums and I got some answers. for example this:
    I personally am not so sure about this combination.
    Metagross
    Adamant
    252 Attack and HP/Speed
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch (if it has that)
    - Psychic

    Milotic
    Calm/Timid
    252 in SpA and HP/Speed
    - Surf/Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Toxic

    Salamence
    Modest/Naive/Timid
    252 in SpA and Speed
    - Hydro Pump
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
  15. Isa

    Isa

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    In the next episode of "Isa explores DPP UU", I made a list of every wall, physical/special/mixed, as well as every hazard setter and spinner, that's viable to some degree in DPP UU. If someone spots any errors, please inform me, I would honestly be surprised if this was perfect from the start.
    http://puu.sh/9xs2e/abb3eacd6b.txt
  16. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    I'd add Kabutops to the list as an offensive spinner. Also, Hitmontop is pretty bulky with Intimidate and can spin well as well. The other Hitmons can also spin, but 'top is the most reliable.

    Cloyster and Qwilfish both get Toxic Spikes as well, though Spikes is usually more worthwhile with Venusaur everywhere. Roselia's nowhere near as great as Roserade was when she was in the tier, but the prevo can still set Spikes / TSpikes, put things to sleep, and act as a status absorber with Natural Cure.
    Isa likes this.
  17. Isa

    Isa

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    Muchas gracias. I forgot about Kabutops and the Hitmons completely for the spinning part.

    Thanks for the help!

    Watch out for version 2.0 where I try to categorize all attackers into physical/special/mixed.
  18. coolking49

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    1. Probably Emerald, though I'm not sure since I've never done it in any other game.
    2. http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/
    I'd say in the frontier put substitutes in front of your pokemon whenever possible. I'm pretty sure there are some guides to the battle frontier/tower, though I think those may only be for gen 4 and later...
    Remember that Psychic is a special move on Metagross and you don't have any SpA IVs. I'd stick to either agility, explosion, rock slide, or sludge bomb.
    Same with Salamence and EQ. I'd say physical Mence, namely DD Mence, is better since you know you can OHKO most pokemon is you can get set up.
  19. Scorpio

    Scorpio

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    *checks out new strategy Pokedex*

    Whoa whoa whoa wait wait wait wait wait since when is Charizard BL in Gen 4 AND Gen 5? Could someone explain this to me?
  20. MoxieInfinite

    MoxieInfinite

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    The new strategy dex is ass atm, it says that Fly and EQ are Special etc. Expect it to be fixed in the very near future.

    However, why they removed the "intro" to the Pokemon, I do not know. I'd really like that back.
  21. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    As Moxie said, there are still some minor errors like that throughout the dex. We're working on getting that all corrected quickly, but realize there are bound to be little mistakes considering the complete overhaul everything just went through.
    Overviews, checks and counters, and other options are all removed at the moment. They're tier specific, which isn't currently separated on the new dex. A good example is BW Victreebel, which has dex entries for NU, RU, UU, OU, and Ubers all on the same page. Having all of those overviews and checks and counters sections would be a nightmare. I can't say for sure how this is going to be sorted out in the future, but for now, they're a missing feature.
  22. MoxieInfinite

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    tbh I liked it better the way it was before, now it's just so chaotic in a way.
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  23. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Will we get Checks & Counters back eventually? It's pretty important.
  24. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

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    Nothing is final yet, so expect things to continue to change around over the next few weeks / months. There are lots of new features on the way, and the end result should allow for much more customization. Just hold tight for now~
    I can't say for sure, since the final setup isn't set in stone yet. I do agree that Checks & Counters is one of the most important parts of an analysis, so it's definitely something I'd like to see added back soon. We've continued to be using those sections while writing in C&C, so the info is there, it's just not currently used. As I said to Moxie, expect plenty of changes in the near future :3
    MoxieInfinite likes this.
  25. Epsilonsama

    Epsilonsama

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    Speaking of the new Pokedex, what happaned to the introduction that described the general use of the Pokemon. It seems gone on the new Pokedex. Many of the old articles used that introduction to described the general use of the Pokemon, there was also some nice introductions that seem to be lost in the shuffle.
    totoTavros likes this.

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