All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

Pardon me if this isn't the right place to ask (I have no idea where else I could go to ask this):
Are there any learnset differences (level-up moves, TMs, HMs) between the original Japanese Red/Green, the original Japanese Blue, and the worldwide Red/Blue release? I know Yellow changed up some sets (Pikachu, Eevee, etc.) from the worldwide Red/Blue, but as you can imagine it's hard to find information on the Japanese RGB releases.
No moveset differences, though there were mechanical differences. We use the international releases of Red/Blue (and then Yellow) for mechanics in our simulator/tournaments.
 
- Staryu can't learn Rapid Spin because it's incompatible with another move.
- Staryu can't learn Recover because it's incompatible with another move.
- Staryu must be at least level 50 because it has a move only available from an event.
Why can't I use this set on PS? I've always used this on PO during BW without any problems

Staryu @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SAtk / 236 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
 
Why can't I use this set on PS? I've always used this on PO during BW without any problems

Staryu @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SAtk / 236 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
I think it's because Staryu can only learn hydro pump, recover, and rapid spin when it's at a level higher than 5. Staryu is genderless, so it can't learn those three moves from breeding.
 
Metagross @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adament
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch / Zen Headbutt

What's a good DPP OU core involving this set? And what are some ways to support said core?
 
Metagross @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adament
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch / Zen Headbutt

What's a good DPP OU core involving this set? And what are some ways to support said core?
first I'd recommend not being married to this set in particular, item (lum/shuca/occa/lefties) and last moveslot (ice punch, explosion) can be changed depending on how your team turns out. run max speed btw so you outrun max speed gyarados/dragonite and scarf infernape at +2. anyway agiligross shines vs offense, its only real roadblocks being rotom, bronzong and bulky sd scizor (gyara/zap depending on which punch you pick; worth noting that explosion, which is what coverage tr zong succeeds with btw, lets you at least take one of these blocks (except rotom obv) down). tyranitar can be customized to do pretty much whatever you want so I'd definitely recommend him, including helping against stall which is important because agiligross isn't too great against those teams, with the exception of (lo) explosion sometimes helping tear open a non-rotom pokemon.

make sure your team gives meta setup opportunities; or example dd dragonite most commonly gets revenge killed by moves from scarf pokemon that gross uses for an agility (ice/rock/dragon). or bait ttar in with scarftran or whatever and there's another entry. grass knot infernape pops swampert by surprise and down goes a counter. things like this, taunt wow gar is another good friend. a lot of agiligross teams are weak to scarf flygon, bulky sd scizor and most variants of bronzong in so watch out for those in particular. watch for offensive starmie and bulky grounds as well. have fun
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
Is there a server with GSC LC as an option, currently PS! won't allow the use of several move combinations because of events and even gets messed up from having Hidden Power on a Pokemon when they are set to lvl 5
 

Oglemi

oh my gosh you found me
is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Secret Boss Mod
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-658518653

Would someone mind explaining whether white herb is supposed to work this way or not? Never really used it, I think it worked correctly but not sure.
Thanks in advance
I believe that was proper. Some sources say it's supposed to activate at the end of the turn, others say it activates as soon as you have a negative stat. But that seemed right for gen 3.

Marty last couple turns of the replay
 

Marty

Always more to find
is a Battle Server Administratoris a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcher
Moderator
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-658518653

Would someone mind explaining whether white herb is supposed to work this way or not? Never really used it, I think it worked correctly but not sure.
Thanks in advance
I believe that was proper. Some sources say it's supposed to activate at the end of the turn, others say it activates as soon as you have a negative stat. But that seemed right for gen 3.

Marty last couple turns of the replay
Yeah, UPC says "At the end of each turn and each Pokémon’s attack segment", so if Flygon's switch into Gyarados counts as its attack segment then it looks to be working properly. Will double check soon and edit this post accordingly.
 
How good is Tauros in R/B/Y Stadium mode (where Hyper Beam still requires a recharge even if it picks up a KO)?

Also in R/B/Y, how many Normal-types (Tauros/Chansey/Snorlax) and Psychic-types (Alakazam/Exeggutor/Starmie) belong on the same team? Does the choice between Rhydon and Golem often come down to whether or not you have Explosion on your team already?
 
Tauros is still very good in RBY Stadium mode, and substitute replaces hyper beam for its final moveslot. For this reason, it can be a bit harder to use but it is still very dangerous, especially if you can set up substitute at the right time.

The formula for a standard RBY team is "lead+big 4+filler". The lead pokemon is usually Starmie, Alakazam, Jynx, or Gengar, and less frequently Jolteon or Exeggutor. The big 4 are the S rank pokemon of the tier and they are Chansey, Exeggutor, Snorlax, and Tauros. Finally, the filler pokemon is what the last moveslot is dedicated to and is usually either Lapras, Zapdos, Alakazam (if it isn't the lead), Starmie (if it isn't the lead), Slowbro, Golem/Rhydon, Jolteon (if it isn't the lead), or Cloyster. The filler pokemon usually compliments whatever lead pokemon you chose and what movesets you gave your big 4 pokemon. People typically consider Golem to be better than Rhydon for standard teams since it has explosion, but Rhydon is also pretty good since it has a noticeable improvement in attack and very slightly higher bulk.

I would think of RBY teambuilding in terms of that formula, and not by the number of normals and psychics that are on your team.

However, there are some creative teams that don't follow that formula of course and can still be very viable (Ex: Alakazam, Chansey, Exeggutor, Rhydon, Slowbro, and Tauros), but they tend to be harder to use and have some gaps that the standard teams don't possess.
 
Last edited:
The lead pokemon is usually Starmie, Alakazam, Jynx, or Gengar, and less frequently Jolteon or Exeggutor
I don't want to act all high and mighty and tell people they're playing the game wrong, but I really can't stress enough how terrible lead Egg is. Against the most common leads it has a grand total of one matchup that isn't terrible, while exposing it to sleep means you need to run something else as your backup sleeper, which is a repugnant idea because there's nothing that's all that great in that role, due to reliability and/or ability to fit onto a team outside the lead position. Consequently, it screws you over in teambuilding and in return offers minimal gain. If you really want a lead that can sleep and para, run Hypno- it's pretty bad, but you're not shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to managing sleep

Otherwise you provide some good advice. It's funny, although I hate to prescribe a formula when there are plenty of non-formulaic teams to be had, it's so simple when that formula is ideal for 90% of teams

Thanks, Maya Chansey.

Another question - what is the most common nature and Hidden Power run on Groudon in Gen 3 Ubers? Would that be Adamant and HP Ghost?
Definitely run Adamant. As a general rule of thumb, the base 90s generally don't run speed except to creep each other and maybe other stuff that doesn't always invest in speed (Jira springs to mind, although it's not that significant a target). Also ghost is generally the best Hidden Power to run- the next best would be Bug, which hits Egg and other Chlorophyll users, but Lugia is generally a more important target (I could be forgetting things, idk)
 
I would definitely contest lead Exeggutor being bad. Alakazam is by far the most common lead because it's so good no matter what - if I want to guarantee I get SOMETHING done in the lead slot, I lead Zam - and it really sucks to have to switch Egg into turn 1 twave (personally I don't like starting games off with Zam wars nor do I enjoy Starmie paralyzed immediately, I'd rather make them work for that with Tauros/Rhydon than give it to them for free in an exchange that definitely wasn't worth it for me). Egg facing off against Zam also gives you two mons of mystery rather than your lead being revealed. Now of course you need to run the hell away from Jynx but you just go to your sleep absorber (I usually use Starmie, Zam works too) (same against Gengar which has fallen massively out of favor with the best players I've noticed, but even then you just switch) which would've taken it anyway and not paralyzing the Jynx is good because it doesn't clash with you getting a sleep off. I definitely wouldn't let Egg take sleep. Starmie isn't too bad a matchup, that's up to the player (if you have Mega Drain it's nice since they always try to burn sleep against you). Jolteon I'd probably switch against, early in the game it's not hard to force it out and then bring Egg back in for the sleep. Basically, the improved t1 matchup against Alakazam IS worth it because it's so damn common and dangerous and limiting the amount of turns it has to throw nonsense at you is really important (games where Egg essentially dies trying to fight Zam after switching in are just the worst) and you have more Pokemon that your opponent doesn't automatically know (if you drop Chans/Lax then that's even more).
 
Ortheore, I put lead Exeggutor in the final spot of my recommended leads for a reason. I agree with everything you said about it being bad, but its positive matchup against Alakazam and the interesting teambuilding options it enables (such as putting Lapras and Jolteon in the back) made me feel that I should mention it.
 
Ortheore, I put lead Exeggutor in the final spot of my recommended leads for a reason. I agree with everything you said about it being bad, but its positive matchup against Alakazam and the interesting teambuilding options it enables (such as putting Lapras and Jolteon in the back) made me feel that I should mention it.
And if nothing else, it's worth mentioning because even if X number of people think it's a bad lead, the truth is that Y number of people don't, so it's good to be aware that you might encounter an opponent who would use the lead, even if you never do.
 

Oglemi

oh my gosh you found me
is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Secret Boss Mod
What makes (made?) Vaporeon a better choice than Alomomola in BW OU? Acid Armor + Hydration?
http://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/pokemon/vaporeon/
Nothing made it better than Alo, to my knowledge, outside of access to BP. It had "Ambipom usage syndrome" where it was a n00b ladder choice because Wish passing + Rest Hydration healing seemed cool on rain stall teams, which used to be the team archetype of choice for a short while in the gen. Not that Vap was ever bad of course, you could definitely do worse, but it definitely does/did not deserve the OU usage that it got.
 
As Oglemi said Vaporeon was seen in poorly made Rain stalls, which really couldn't afford it simply because there was no room for another water-type besides poli and tenta or quag
I remember a Politoed / Tornadus / Forretress / Jirachi / Breloom / Vaporeon balance team in BW1, which I think Lavos Spawn made, functioning pretty well in bw1 metagame but that's it
Then BW2 arrived and vaporeon just died and I don't know how it managed to get OU usage, it is only a niche pokemon overall. Really fun to use, though.
As a side note current OU list is extremely misleading for new players. Infernape, Jolteon, Vaporeon, Donphan, Haxorus, Espeon, Metagross are listed as OU while Mew, Darmanitan, Amoonguss, Slowbro, Slowking, Mienshao, TORNADUS rot in lower tiers...meh, at least we've got the viability rankings.