Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (NU Edition)

Kiyo

I'm curious.
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
NU Leader
#1
OP adapted from Coconuts LC version

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Abejas

formerly Allstar
is a Tiering Contributor
#3
What are some relevant Fire types in Beta?
Some relevant fire types in this meta are emboar, delphox, typhlosion, charizard, moltres, houndoom, and pyroar. I might be missing some but those are the most common ones at the moment. None of them have a lot of usage besides moltres, but they are pretty good.
E: forgot magmortar, thats also a pretty good fire type.
 

erisia

nyoen wnt an popsicel
is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#5
We get this question all the time so I'm gonna put a moratorium on it: Guzzlord is probably not going to be very good. This is because it has the conundrum of both being super slow (in a tier with much better Trick Room abusers) and either not strong enough or not bulky enough to work. Because of its low defenses, you pretty much have to invest in one of them to not keel over from super-effective attacks, and even then you'll die to just about any Fairy move after hazards. However, you also don't have enough power to do anything really productive outside of use Draco Meteor and hope for Beast Boost to come in useful for once. I think the best set will probably be a mixed AV set since it has both the bulk to switch into things and the power to force stuff out with Draco Meteor and super effective hits, as well as being a good Fairy lure I guess.



Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet / Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Heavy Slam / Sludge Bomb

Heavy Slam is better against most Fairies while Sludge Bomb is better against things like Granbull. If you're not too concerned about Steelix then you can run Snarl or Dragon Tail as a utility slot over Fire Blast.

But the truth is that Guzzlord isn't going to do much against any team that has a Fairy in the wings. So evaluate whether you really need something like Guzzlord as a general special sponge or not depending on your team makeup and don't assume it's going to be super good because it's an Ultra Beast.
 
#6
What are some relevant Fire types in Beta?
To elaborate a bit more on allstars post. Moltres, Delphox, Ninetales and Emboar are the current relevant Fire types. Pyroar fell a bit out of favor due to Delphox being in the tier. Same goes for Charizard as Moltres is NU. Houndoom is interesting cause it can run a mixed set which definitely gives it an edge over other Fire types. Haven't seen too many Typhlosions around so i can't tell much about it.
 
#7
Is there anywhere we can find the list of NU mons by type that we had in the old thread or even the role compendium? It was super useful for teambuilding yet now we have the fresh SM NU that doesn't have either.
 
#10
Things like Vanilluxe (both scarf and non-scarf) and other auto weather setters, Drampa (though it's not used that much) and other cloud nine mons, strong specially and physically defensive mons like golbat and p2 can also disrupt sun with status moves, archetypes like trick room often have a great matchup vs it.
 
#15
Is Typhlosion any viable? I remember it being godawful in ORAS RU, and this tier very much resembles that one, but I dunno, the lack of Fighting and Dark-type weaknesses compared to Houndoom and Delphox seem really appealing to me.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
#16
Is Typhlosion any viable? I remember it being godawful in ORAS RU, and this tier very much resembles that one, but I dunno, the lack of Fighting and Dark-type weaknesses compared to Houndoom and Delphox seem really appealing to me.
The advent of Z-moves allows Typhlosion to be slightly less one-dimensional than before as it gives its non-STAB moves some appreciated nuking power, but it still has to compete with Charizard, a fellow Fire-type that is also very potent at using Z-moves, not just by boosting its coverage options but also has access to Z-Sunny Day (boosts Speed by +1) + Solar Power or Z-Celebrate. Not having weaknesses to Fighting and Dark does lessen its vulnerability to priority, but Charizard has access to this trait and has Roost; Zard does have a nasty SR weakness but you want hazard control alongside Typhlosion anyway.

Typhlosion needs to rely on the immediate firepower of Eruption to stand out, but with the multitude of Water-types with reliable recovery and the bulk to take Typhlosion's coverage (Slowking, Jellicent, Vaporeon, even Pyukumuku), Typhlosion is likely gonna struggle much more compared to its Fire-type brethren. With that said, it has some potential to outdo Pyroar in this meta.
 

erisia

nyoen wnt an popsicel
is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#18
Silvally is generally mediocre but it can be a good option for a pivot on some teams thanks to Parting Shot, a distinctive typing that can be tailored to suit your team, and more offensive presence than the likes of Persian-Alola. What forme is best for you depends a lot on what your team is, but Silvally-Steel is an excellent specially-defensive tank that can take on most special attackers that don't run coverage for it without too much difficulty, while Silvally-Poison is a sturdy Fighting-type resist that can provide pivot support while absorbing T-spikes. Here are some sets for each of them:


Silvally-Steel @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Parting Shot
- Thunder Wave / Rest
- Toxic / Roar / Sleep Talk

Thunder Wave + Iron Head is a pretty good combo for wearing down offense teams, while Toxic is useful against defensive mons that often like to absorb Parting Shot, Roar lets you deal with setup sweepers or stack hazard damage, while Rest + Sleep Talk makes Silvally-Steel more self-sufficient as an all-purpose wall.


Silvally-Poison @ Poison Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Parting Shot
- Thunder Wave / Rest
- Toxic / Roar / Sleep Talk

Moves do basically the same thing here. You can swap around some EVs to tank specific hits better if you want, for example if you want your Steelvally to take on Tyrantrum slightly better or if you want Poisonvally to take on the likes Sceptile more easily.

Other decent formes include Silvally-Normal (which can hold an item!) and Silvally-Ghost (decently fast and bulky spinblocker), but I haven't tried either of these as Parting Shot users yet.
 
#19
Can someone just give me a quick run-through of how viable certain mons are? I'm trying to figure out why some of the following things happened to drop to PU:

Vivillon
Vikavolt
Alolan Persian
Scraggy
Absol
Sableye
Spiritomb
Drampa
Druddigon
Eeelektross
Toxicroak
Sawk
Hariyama
Gallade
Charizard
Houndoom
Sceptile
Jynx
Cinccino
Kanghaskan
Clawitzer
Samurott

I'm sorry that this is a lot of Pokemon, but i'm honestly tripped up at how all of these things somehow dropped as low as PU when i'd expect them to be mainstays here. Thanks in advance!
 

Shadestep

the sound quality is pretty and rough
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#20
Vivillon - good
Vikavolt - okay
Alolan Persian - okay
Scraggy - if you mean scrafty; viable, not that good
Absol - good
Sableye - really good
Spiritomb - also really good
Drampa - not good anymore, after Drought got banned
Druddigon - decent
Eeelektross - unviable (you can probably get some use out of it, just wouldn't recommend it)
Toxicroak - good
Sawk - underrated, people have been trying out the million other fighting types in the tier first
Hariyama - okay
Gallade - decent
Charizard - okay now, good first (after drought ban)
Houndoom - good
Sceptile - REALLY good, borderline broken i'd say
Jynx - good, a bit hard to use
Cinccino - bad
Kanghaskan - mostly outperformed by other normal-types now
Clawitzer - decent
Samurott - haven't tried it yet
 
#21
Hi guys. Before P2 got banned, I used to play a Z-Heal Bell Granbull + P2 as a defensive core, they had a really cool synergy together. Since P2 is gone, what kind of good normal types (or even other types) should I pair with ? Thanks.
 

Abejas

formerly Allstar
is a Tiering Contributor
#23
Hi guys. Before P2 got banned, I used to play a Z-Heal Bell Granbull + P2 as a defensive core, they had a really cool synergy together. Since P2 is gone, what kind of good normal types (or even other types) should I pair with ? Thanks.
If you want something similar to p2 I would use type:null, tho its only really viable in stall from what I saw. It requires more support since it only gets rest as recovery but its bulkier then p2 at least.
 
#25
Is Lilligant still a great pick for NU as of now, or have too many mons shifted down for her to be able to deal with?
Lilligant is still viable and the advent of Z moves make it more difficult to prepare for if anything. It isn't so much that too many new pkmn are able to effectively check it, it's more that there is a lot of opportunity cost when using Lilligant as opposed to other Grass-types like Sceptile, Whimsicott, and Virizion which makes it harder to justify on a team.