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Ask an Uber Question, Get an Uber Answer (Read FAQs in First Post Before Asking)

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !
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    Yeah, they are bad exemple lol

    Most of the time, when you need something, Arceus can do it better than anyone. There is always a slot for him in your team.
  2. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Yeah I'll think about posting a RMT.

    About Ferrothorn / Forretress vs. Xatu, Volt Switch definitely gives Forretress the advantage, if it didn't Spike on itself at least but then it can always Rapid Spin since Xatu isn't a ghost. Ferrothorn might be unable to muscle past Xatu, but it can still switch out with little fear: after all, Xatu poses next to zero offensive threat.

    Finally about Arceus, there are certainly things other Pokemon do better than Arceus, e.g.

    Skarmory / Giratina etc do a better job checking EK Arceus than any of the Arceus formes
    Arceus can't lay down Spikes, losing to Skarmory / Forry / Ferrothorn
    Arceus can't Rapid Spin
    Mewtwo CM sweeps with more immediate power than most Arceus formes (+ it's in an elite speed tier)
    SubClaws Zekrom sets up on all Ferrothorn; Grass Arceus still risks Thunder Wave -> switch out
    Manaphy muscles through the pink blobs while maintaining decent coverage, something CM Arceus can't do
    Jirachi and Shaymin-S flinch hax better than Arceus (can Arceus even flinch hax? @_@)
    Kyogre hits a lot harder than Arceus
    The pink blobs wall special attackers better than Arceus (usually)

    And so on. Arceus is versatile, and 120 in all base stats gives it the highest BST of all Pokemon, but almost all Pokemon specialize. Many Ubers simply have better stats / ability to do any individual task. The bulk is imo the best thing about Arceus, right next to its versatility and speed. Arceus pulls off bulky CM better than most other Pokemon (at least until Soul Dew is released, maybe), and of course there's the Extremekiller, but although not having Arceus is a restriction I don't view it as a disadvantage.
  3. Manxer

    Manxer

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    I don't know if this is the right place to ask

    What should I use
    this
    or this
    I generally prefer the 3 atk + roost set, but my friend said he would use the second one because it can take some hit (2-3 Draco, and 1 hit from +1 Aura Sphere, maybe) as well as hit back hard too

    what do you think, what would you use ?
    please answer thank you
  4. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    It depends. The first one packs more power and longer lifespan, while the second gives you much more momentum and immediate power. It all depends on your team.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I think that generally the CB set is the best since it allows Scizor to do its main job(Revenge Killing)right off the bat.With CB Scizor can take huge chunks from many pokes,while with Lefties it cannot.
    However if your team relies too much on Scizor to take Dragon attacks,or your team is supporting a Scizor sweep then go for the Lefties set.

    It really depends on the team.Maybe you want to post your team so we can help more?
  6. bygbyrd

    bygbyrd

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    In SD Scizor is not very good in ubers. The recovery is a blessing, but he is slow easy to wall (he's slower than a lot of walls). Dialga is one of its best checks/counters and is used almost as much as Kyorgre. Band Scizor can pursuit trap, revenge with bullet punch, or hit and run with U-turn all while having a handy dragon resist. This is why Band Scizor is usually the better option. If you want a physical sweeper, look at pokes like Arcues, Rayquaza, or Groudon.
  7. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Why is Thundurus uber? I mean it's obviously because OU players voted on it and decided it was broken, but why is it broken? Priority Thunder Wave is good, but there are other Pokemon with priority paralysis. 125 base SpA is good but not spectacular, its bulk isn't very impressive, etc. But it got voted uber ...

    Just curious, because it hardly seems like Thundurus is a good Pokemon in Ubers. It's not that Thundurus is not viable, but he just seems weak.
  8. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Is that a question to be asking in the Ubers forum? To answer the question, I believe most thought Thundurus was just too good of a sweeper in OU, kind of like Excadrill. Not only that, but Thundurus had the very annoying priority Thunder Wave to fuck up many potential counters made it extremely hard to play around.

    Since this is the Ubers forum, there's no reason to argue about Thundurus' banning from OU. His viability in Ubers have no impact whatsoever on the decision. He was too good in OU, he's now not so very good in Ubers. Tough luck, Thundurus.
  9. Techniloom

    Techniloom

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    The two main reasons why Thundurus was banned was because of priority Nasty Plot which means nothing short of Whimisicott could stop him from setting up and priority Thunder Wave which made him impossible to revenge kill (short of Extreme Speed users) without one of your pokemon becoming crippled.
  10. CrazyBacon

    CrazyBacon

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    Mostly in ubers Thundurus faces competition from Darkrai who has better special attack/speed, although thundurus's LO thunderbolt does outdamage darkrais LO dark pulse, which is cool, he's definitely NOT weak. But where thundurus gets prankster thunder wave, darkrai gets dark void, which is sort of... well better as it makes him harder to check.

    However Thundurus can be a last ditch attempt to paralyse stuff like mewtwo, scarf skyim making them easier to handle, but more often than not it will cost thundurus its life, especially with stuff like scarf palkia, mewtwo, it should be noted that darkrai cant handle either of those as it is outsped and KOED. Mons like scarf Palkia who have no qualms about revenging a darkrai, but fear revenging thundurus because they'll be paralysed and essentially neutered in the process.

    For reference about the calcs comparing darkrai and thundurus.
    Timid Darkrais LO boosted dark pulse vs 252HP/0 Normal Arceus 33.8% - 39.9%
    Timid Thundurus LO boosted Thunderbolt vs 252HP/0 Normal Arceus 37.8% - 44.6%
    Timid Mewtwo LO boosted Psystrike vs 252HP/0 Normal Arceus 46.2% - 54.7%

    It's slightly better, tacked mewtwo on for lolz.
  11. Banedon

    Banedon

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    I'm asking because whatever got him banned from OU is most likely to be his most viable set in Ubers, or at least would point the way to the most viable set. Excadrill is easy to understand. He's got a huge attack stat and enters battle fast enough to outspeed most Choice Scarfers. He has solid counters, but he screws over offensive teams because he's impossible to outspeed, resists certain priority moves and can easily switch out of the rest. The fact that sandstorm is not as common in Ubers makes Excadrill an unfortunate casualty of war, which is a pity, but understandable. On the other hand Thundurus doesn't seem to have any outstanding qualities. It's easy to see him as a strong special sweeper in OU, but beyond that ... I don't see anything.

    So he has priority Nasty Plot. So what? Nasty Plot is a purely offensive set up move that doesn't make him any harder to kill. Priority Calm Mind can be used to weaken special attackers before they attack while still boosting up, priority Recover can keep you alive, etc. But priority Nasty Plot just doesn't sound like anything important. Priority Thunder Wave is a different matter and will cripple a potential revenge killer, but still. You have to give up a coverage move (or NP / Substitute etc) to have Thunder Wave, and you still end up dying. Last ditch check, yes, but you lose a Pokemon. It's very far from ideal.

    What else is there? LO Thunderbolt does a lot of damage, true, but then the same applies to Zapdos's LO Thunderbolt and yet Zapdos is firmly UU. Besides, in the Ubers tier both are flattened by Zekrom's Bolt Strike, so that niche is out as well.

    In other words, Thundurus seems so fully manageable that it ought to be OU, and yet it isn't. So why isn't it OU? What exactly did send Thundurus over the edge anyway?

    @above - Dark Void is so strong a move that I find I use Darkrai just because of it. Electric STAB is great, but Darkrai getting almost unresisted coverage with two high BP moves is great, too. I can't see Thundurus competing with Darkrai; Darkrai is just better. I suppose that's why Darkrai got banned long before Thundurus did.
  12. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    A Pokemon's viability in Ubers has nothing to do with its banning in OU. Stick this in your mind. Thundurus was banned because it was hard to check in OU. The Nasty Plot set was enough to cause heaps of teams problems (NP / Thunder(bolt) / HP Ice / Focus Blast). Those that could check Thundurus needed to watch out for the priority Thunder Wave business. While Excadrill punished offensive teams because you had to wall it, Thundurus punished more defensive teams because the only way you're guaranteed to take it down without taking a heavy beating was to revenge it. Think Mewtwo in Ubers. Thundurus was very difficult to wall, and could get past certain checks if it chose to do so (Grass Knot for Quag/Gastro, Thunder Wave for Scarfers, Sub for other shit). If you played OU, you would understand why it was such a big deal.

    Again, this forum is not the place to be arguing about Thundurus' tiering. If you want to talk about Thundurus, talk about its sets and niches in Ubers, not banning from OU.
  13. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    I've just had to delete six posts. This is "Ask an Uber Question, Get an Uber Answer", so lets keep it to that. Why Thundurus was banned has absolutely zero relevance to Ubers and Thundurus's most effective set in OU might be its most sub par set in Ubers. Please lets not clutter up this thread. If you want to know more about Thundurus the general metagame thread is probably a better place to ask.
  14. IronGross

    IronGross

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    Why isn't Recover used more on Mewtwo? Is it good for offensive sets to negate Life Orb recoil?
  15. PKMN Trainer Rai

    PKMN Trainer Rai

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    I don't know if this is the right place but it's a question about Ubers...

    Blaziken and Excadrill, Why are they banned? I read somewhere that Blaziken is only banned if it has it's Dream World ability? But then I read that all DW Pokémon are banned. So now I am really confused... =/
  16. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !
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    Blaziken is banned regardless of his ability, no complex ban; but yeah, Turbo is the principal reason of his ban. Excadrill is banned because of his huge impact on the OU metagame, he's way too strong (or at least, that's what has been decided by the suspect voters).
  17. Banryu

    Banryu

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    It's probably because Mewtwo doesn't have time to use Recover. LO Mewtwo needs to spend every turn he can either attacking things slower than him, boosting, or switching out to avoid being revenge-killed. Because he can't take a hit is the answer to your question. Plus, he usually needs as much coverage as he can get. Psystrike/Fblast/Aura Sphere gets pretty good coverage, but CM for boosts or Ice Beam for coverage are usually better options than Recover... or even stuff like Taunt, I dunno. But it's mainly because he can't take a hit, I think; the same reason LO Infernape never uses Slack Off.

    I can't answer the question as to why Blaze and Drill are banned; I personally disagree with the decision so my answer would be biased.

    EDIT: Bwahahahahahaha *ninjas away into the night* >:P
  18. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    Well, to start, on non-Choiced Mewtwo (bar Stalltwo) already has two moves picked for it, Calm Mind and Psystrike. You then will probably need Aura Sphere or Fire Blast, or you will be turned into set-up fodder by Dialga, Ferro, etc. This leaves you with one moveslot.

    Even then, Ice Beam/ Shadow Ball is required so you don't get walled by things like Lugia or Giratina.

    tl;dr there is simply no room at all to put Recover on Psycho Killer, as you'll miss so much coverage or not have nearly enough power to sweep.

    EDIT: I hate ninjas. Anyways, why the two were banned is irrelevant (see baarry4ever's post above).
  19. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Even if you are going for Calm Mind + 2 Attacks, the SubCM set is so much better. It gives you another chance to set up while still being immune to status and Dragon Tail phazing. After you have reached +2/+3 you're ready to sweep, prepared to set up another Substitute whenever you can.
  20. Mygavolt

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    Is Volt-Turn used in Ubers? If so, what are some common users?
  21. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Volt-turn is not used specifically as a strategy per se, but it is perfectly usable. You don't aim for a Volt-turn combo, instead, you may place it on your team for synergy purposes. The users obviously aren't as effective as they are in OU as well. The obvious two Pokemon that come to mind are Zekrom and Scizor, which both share reasonable synergy together. Other uses include Hydreigon, Infernape, Jirachi, Magnezone, none of which have a strong Volt Switch/U-turn (except for Mag, who is slow as fuck and can't beat anything apart from Ferrothorn and Forretress).
  22. gookie

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    Life Orb 3 attacks recover is actually a good set though. Packs a lot of power and Mewtwo will often find turns when people start switching around on resists and stuff.
  23. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    I used that before, but I felt like the way to boost your Special Attack was missing, as it really is needed for Mewtwo in my opinion. It was good though, just not as good as the Calm Mind version. In my opinion, of course.
  24. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

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    I can understand why you'd want to Recover off Life Orb and other residual damage, but honestly, Mewtwo gets 10 or 11 hits in before he dies from Life Orb recoil, and even if he switches a lot and gets hit by entry hazards, you should still be able to attack with him at least four or five times if you don't get hit by any attacks, which should kill a couple of Pokemon. If you DO get hit by any attacks, Mewtwo is probably dead; it's not that he can't take a hit, it's just that he can't take a hit well enough to live through it after two rounds of Life Orb damage, possibly with entry hazards. If your opponent's switching, you want to either Calm Mind to be sure you're strong enough to KO, or you want to use Sub to let yourself get more attacks in without getting hit by status/Dragon Tail. Without the Calm Mind boost, Mewtwo's attacks probably aren't strong enough to KO a full health opponent, while the opponent will likely be strong enough to KO him even after Recover.
  25. barry4ever

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    I usually dont bother with Recover when using Mewtwo. It just seems a waste of a moveslot to me on something that gets in kills stuff and gets out. Mewtwo does have decent bulk but certainly not enough to properly utilize Recover.

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