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Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Melic Walker

    Melic Walker

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    @Hack He Must

    That's a pretty neat team you've got there. My main concern with the FWG core is that the dragon types that dominate ubers resist the STABs of the core and that the weather dominate metagame in ubers causes synergy problems between the members.

    Another FWG core that I am interested in is the one with shaymin as a stall breaker, reshiram as a sweeper and arceus water as the Kyogre counter, all on a sun team with rapid spin support.
  2. Aquasition

    Aquasition

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    The problem with Waterceus is that Kyogre can use thunder to hurt you, with a 30% chance of paralysis. Also, it doesn't seem right to be using Waterceus on a sun team, so how about Grassceus as the Kyogre counter, as it resists both Water and Elec, forcing Kyogre to use the weaker Ice beam, while you'll do more damage with Judgement, due to the plate and STAB. That breaks the FWG core, so let's replace Shaymin with Palkia. The mix sets and the Blissey boxer set works well as a Stallbreaker. Just my two cents.
  3. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !
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    The FWG core in other tiers like UU works because they have moderate fire power. Things like Kyogre can 2HKO even full health Ferrothorn. Speaking of which, there is also the weather. As you can see in OU, Rain and Sun are everywhere, so you can't really use a Fire and Water mons in the same team without putting your team at a disadvantage (i.e Arceus, Manaphy and Palkia being the only Water mons beside Kyogre). Finally, the main reason imo is because you need to resist to the most common Type in uber (dark, fight, ice, dragon, etc); you dont really need the resistance that the FWGc provide.
  4. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    While FWG cores can certainly be constructed in Ubers, they are nowhere near as effective as they are in other tiers for the inherent nature of Ubers. First off, in other tiers FWG cores come with a naturally good defensive synergy of their own since the among them they resist the primary attacking types. Even a offensively oriented FWG core has a certain amount of defensive synergy. This does not happen in Ubers since like go10 pointed out, the offensive stats are so high they make the effect of such synergy quite minimal.
  5. Melic Walker

    Melic Walker

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    Can Giratina-O work as an offensive calm mind user? If so, what is a good set for that role? If not, what pokemon with similar team synergy can pull it off?
  6. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
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    There's a few CM sets on the Tina analysis:

    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/giratina-o

    I would try to say more but I never really played much with CMTina. All I can say is that I liked having Sub on the CM set to block Forry Toxics and ensure a hit while I found the Mono set pretty easy to stop due to his mulitple common weaknesses and weak recovery. However, this was a long time ago so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
  7. Melic Walker

    Melic Walker

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    @Melee Mewtwo

    Yeah, i know that there a some good Griatina-o CM sets out there. But. the ones shown on the Giratina-o page seems to lean more toward bulky offence and are meant to be more of a "last bastion". Oh well, I'll keep on experimenting to see what happens

    On another note, does Giratina-o go well with Arceus-steel on an offensive team?
  8. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
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    The only real offensive CM sets are Mewtwo, Latios and FightCeus. (as well as other forms with offensively inclined typing)
    Stuff like Steelceus are Stall breakers so you only really need one. (since they normally rely on the rest of your team being knocked out so that the Stall team can't phaze them)
    If you want to build a team around CM Steelceus I suggest you start by adding Rain as well as solid counters to Ho-Oh and Groudon. (I like Roar as the coverage move since it lets him win CM wars and prevents being phazed himself)
  9. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
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    what are good counters for specially defensive kyogre?
    also, can someone give me a link for a good damage calculator?

    Edit: thank you jackm and Go 10! This damage calculator is a beautiful thing! :)
  10. jackm

    jackm

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    Choice Specs Dialga and Palkia can both 2HKO with Thunder, while shrugging off Scald with ease. Barring a Scald burn, any really powerful Ubers physical attacker (examples including Rayquaza, Zekrom, and Groudon) can break through Kyogre with relative ease.

    As for a damage calculator, use Honko's:

    http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

    It's the best, in my opinion.
  11. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !
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    SpD Ogre doesnt "sweep" by himself, his purpose is to check some threat like Kyurem-W and phaze it. Taking some Water resist (Arceus, Ferrothorn, Giratina, Dialga, Palkia; Kyurem etc) and being able to clear your field should be enough.

    Calc : http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html
  12. Hiddenfreezer

    Hiddenfreezer

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    I have a question: Which Pokemon would fit on following team?

    Groudon(Support w Fire Punch )

    Reshiram(Tailwind Mixed Life-Orb)

    KyuremW(Sub)

    Tentacruel(ToxicSpikes RainDish)

    Genesect(PhysicalScarf with Sleep Talk)

    I need a last pokemon, the core of this planned team are the first 3 Pokemon

    Thanks for suggestions
  13. Hack He Must

    Hack He Must
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    Kinda needs a Kyogre check or a spinblocker (or both), since you are running multiple hazards. The goal of this team is hard to figure out, I can't see how toxic spikes helps the incredibly offensive Resh+Kyurem-W core. I guess spec def Giratina could be used to fill both aforementioned roles, but using the tailwind Resh+LO Kyurem-W combo should incline a more offensive playstyle, in which IMO a magic bouncer and not a t-spiking Tentacruel should be used.
  14. Hiddenfreezer

    Hiddenfreezer

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    My Kyurem White isa substitute set, not Life Orb. Toxic Spikes ALWAYS helps in Uber, due to weaking defensive pokemon (and Arceus, Mewtwo)

    Magic Bounce in Uber? Okay, explain how are they viable in Uber? No offense but they don't provide anything to this team

    Tentacruel checks Kyogre set. It has rapid spin and it itself prevents toxic spikes.

    A spin blocker is a pretty good idea. Would Ghost-Arceus be useful?
  15. Hack He Must

    Hack He Must
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    Oh, sorry, I thought it was sub LO Kyurem, pretty straightforward set. You have two SR weak pokes, and a Genesect switching in and out all the time.

    With Ghosceus, you still have nothing exactly good against Kyogre, even though Tenttacruel can switch in on resisted hits barring the specs set.

    Magic bounce is hard to use, but it works. Quoting a good friend of mine here:

    This is an example of how magic bounce mons can benefit your team, outside of just preventing SR.

    Espeon @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Yawn
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Grass Knot

    A set that works, but of course needs a lot of team support. A team that has firepower, that is. For more defensive teams Xatu works too.
  16. Hiddenfreezer

    Hiddenfreezer

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    I want a core of groudon reshiram and kyurem white with espeon. What is your definition of "team support"??

    Could you tell me some pokemon which could fit in your opinion? I can easily tweak it afterwards
  17. Hack He Must

    Hack He Must
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    I'd probably use something like this:

    Show Hide
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Dragon Tail

    Espeon @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Yawn
    - Psyshock
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Reshiram @ Life Orb
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Blue Flare
    - Draco Meteor
    - Tailwind
    - Stone Edge

    Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Roost
    - Fusion Flare

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam
    - Iron Head
    - Explosion

    Palkia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder


    Just threw it together, but you get the idea.
  18. Hiddenfreezer

    Hiddenfreezer

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    Espeon is bullshit, i tried it: It has no power and yawn is only decent as a phazing move

    I need something better than Espeon, I tweaked my team to be similar to yours (in fact, palia > tentacruel)
  19. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Espeon is shit, it just annoys you for a few turns. Unless you are so desperate to beat non Shadow Ball Deoxys-S, some Forretress you shouldn't even use it. If you mispredict, hazards will still go up.

    Espeon cannot be relied on anyway, it works sometimes but almost anything kills it.
  20. Melee Mewtwo

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    Your core is weak to hazards so Tentacruel may be a good idea to keep. You can also try Excadrill as he is a pretty reliable spinner. (It'll mostly depend on the OP's spin blocker and/or how well they play it)

    Your team is lacking a Water Spout absorber and a Ekiller counter/check.

    For Water Spout you can use Latias, Latios (takes more from Ice Beam but you have Sun and offense) or Palkia that will fit fine into your team.

    For EKiller you can counter it with Landorus-T (I don't have a spread to give but it beats Ekiller with Adament + LO/CB Superpower without significant attack EV investment) or Sableye (I like him but he was QC rejected so....) as counters and for checks there is Scarf Terrakion who can tank a boosted ESpeed and KO with Close Combat.

    Just experiment with these options until you find a combination that you like.
  21. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
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    When will the next research week be? And also, when will the next set piece battle be?
    On a more battle-related note, who are some good stallbreakers in Ubers?
  22. Melee Mewtwo

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    Steelceus is the first to come to mind as a Stall breaker. His poison immunity opens up a free slot on his CM sets that can go to another coverage move (Thunder), WoW (to cripple the physical attackers that try to hit him on the unboosted side) or Roar (to win CM wars and prevent having his boosts phazed out). Other good Stall breakers are MonoArceus sets with a worthwhile STAB (like Darkceus), Latias, Thundurus-I, Sableye (Thundy does it better with the strong Thunder and prankster T-Wave to cripple the one Scarfmon), MonOgre and just about any other CM set that can shrug off status.
  23. Sidfrid

    Sidfrid

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    I want to take part in the new wi-fi tournament, this one just ban the mighty Chatot. I've been thinking that Kyurem-w will be THE threat and been thinking in ways to stop it (by stop it I mean: don't tear apart my team in 6 turns).

    I deduced that the best way to accomplish this is Rain + Light Screen, for rain I have Kyogre (and maybe DrizzleToad), so my question is: Who is a good Light Screener in Uber?
  24. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !
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    Xatu, Mewtwo, Deoxys-S, Lati@s. Unless I forgot someone, the other screener are kinda meh.
  25. Aquasition

    Aquasition

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    Lugia has the defences, speed, and multiscale to set up screens if it wishes.

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