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Ask an Uber Question, Get an Uber Answer (Read FAQs in First Post Before Asking)

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. pCUBED

    pCUBED

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    Is there anywhere to check EV values for speed/hp/whatever to make sure that I can invest the right amount to outspeed other pokes/survive certain hits? I can obviously do calcs on them, but its a lot of work calcing the speed etc of my mons against the rest of the metagame whenever I mess with my team.

    Thanks in advance.
  2. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Speed tiers are here (I think they're up to date), but I'm not sure where you can find the other thing. Maybe the "All vs. One" function on Honkalculator can help?
    pCUBED likes this.
  3. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Uhhhh... sorry for double posting, but this is a separate topic and the post above was a response to an earlier question, so I thought it'd be okay to do this.

    Could we hold a Top 10 Titans thread in the Ubers subforum? It seems pretty popular in the other metagames, and I think it'd help bring some more activity (possibly). It could be interesting, and it shows how Pokemon shape / influence the metagame rather than how viable they are. However, some issues include the power / centralization of the metagame, as the thread may be predictable, and lack of Pokemon for submissions. Could this work though?
    rileydelete likes this.
  4. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
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    re speed tiers: The slowest you want any mon in ubers to be is 90 around the base speed benchmark. There's a lot of defensive mons that don't invest that you'll want to creep and many that go 252 but neutral nature that are good for creeping, too. (there are some positive nature ones but that's pretty much just speed creep itself) Afterwords, outspeeding Timid Palkia is the next biggest benchmark as that thing can gobble up a lot of teams if you give it enough free turns (although if you have grassy or chansey you can be a bit more lax on this). Last major benchmark is max speed, positive nature Arceus. These guys are really bulky so getting to hit them before they Recover makes it harder for them to check you. These are just the major benchmarks, there are going to be other mons that you might want to creep but aren't as important.
    pCUBED likes this.
  5. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    1. Arceus
    2. Kyogre
    3. Groudon
    4. Genesect
    5-10 idgaf

    You're welcome
  6. Flaming Facepalm

    Flaming Facepalm

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    Technically, Kyogre should be #1. That goes without speaking. Arceus would be #2. Groudon would be third. However, the rest can be somewhat debatable.
  7. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    Arceus as a whole wins as the most influential uber by miles.. Unless of course we want to devote several of the top ten spots to arceus for each of its respective forms but that's very counterproductive.
    Kebabe and Hack like this.
  8. Flaming Facepalm

    Flaming Facepalm

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    Arceus doesn't make a huge amount of the pokes in the tier suddenly good or bad.

    Arceus doesn't fire off insanely powerful Water Spouts.

    Arceus doesn't hold responsibility for the insane weather wars of Ubers.

    Arceus doesn't hit number #1 in the Ubers Stats consistantly with a single form.

    Arceus doesn't have the ability to boast being uncounterable (Specs Kyogre wrecks any switch-in with BoltBeam coverage.)

    Arceus obviously has several advantages over Kyogre as well, but in the end, Kyogre is way, WAY, WAY more influential and powerful than Arceus will ever be.
  9. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kyogre-revamp-qc-2-3.3483775/#post-4762935

    I direct you to read Lance's (Demon Lord Ghirahim's) post on the Q/C revamp on Kyogre. If you still think Kyogre is better than Arceus after reading that, then you have some issues I think.
  10. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kyogre-revamp-qc-2-3.3483775/#post-4762935

    Lance pretty much summed everything I can say. Also counting arceus as different forms would only make sense if team preview revealed arceus type, but it doesn't sooooooooooooooo.

    edit: fucking ninja cats.
  11. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    and this is why that thread will not exist
  12. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Gastrodon says lol
  13. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    You act like that's any reason to use Gastrodon, Latias can do that and more while not being complete setup bait. If the opponent doesn't have a Kyogre it also ende up as a waste of space instead of a waste of space 99% of the time.
  14. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Gastrodon is a viable Pokemon, if only with a rather specific niche. Even in the absence of Kyogre it adds nice defensive synergy, and it handles Palkia (something which very little can avoid being 2HKO'd by) relatively well. And no, Latias cannot do the same. Latias is forced into a difficult position the moment it switches into a Specs Ice Beam. It cannot outheal the damage, forcing it to attack in order to have checked Kyogre. However, if it attacks and the opponent can switch something that can outspeed it and finish it off into whatever attack it uses, the Kyogre check is now lost (Latias can switch out, but can now no longer switch into Kyogre's Water Spout, or maybe even its Surf in the case of offensive sets). It can predict a switch and Recover, but then loses if Kyogre stays in to Ice Beam again. Gastrodon switches into Kyogre with impunity, not to mention forcing its user to only use Ice Beam for fear of handing out free turns.
  15. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    You might want to check your calcs again, use the normal for a specially defensive Latias, 252 HP 160 Special Defense Calm
  16. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    I'm not sure why you would use Latias' worst set just for Kyogre. And this set works far worse in Sand than Gastrodon does (which is really the only playstyle where Gastrodon gets used).
  17. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    Why does that matter? I never said I used that just to counter Kyogre. Also what do you mean by "Latias's worst set?" Because if you really mean that you expect people to consider using Smogon sets when they could actually use something for their team rather then what someone else decides is "standard" you have a problem. Also that set was part of a defensive core of Latias and Arceus Steel I used in an old team.
  18. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    I mean that something with potential for a great combination of speed, power and bulk becomes nothing but a special wall (which Chansey arguably does better bar Specs Kyogre).

    If we go outside of Smogon's sets, there are players (very capable ones, too) that use Timid Specs Kyogre, which gives your Latias problems because it outspeeds it.
  19. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    I was only using that as an example. I only used it on one team maybe 5 months ago. The point of my arguement was Gastrodon is bad i. everything it does, here and in OU
  20. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    It hard walls kyogre. It's pretty sad how you go from KYOGRE HAS NO COUNTERS to kyogres counters suck. Stop being so two faced.

    On topic what would be good for a antilead mewtwo?

    Edit: gtfo ninja antilead shit is op
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  21. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    What the hell is wrong with you, I never said either of those things in any way.
  22. daHsu

    daHsu

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    Can somebody give me a good pivot for a hyper offensive team? I have Deoxys-S, Groudon, Kyogre, Palkia, and Arceus, none of which are bulky. I know it's hyper offensive, but I realized I was constantly sacrificing things to a bad switch.
  23. Sweep

    Sweep (makeup)
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    Replace EKiller with max HP Arceus-Ghost. The CM set is a little weak when you run max HP sometimes and status cripples you as badly as it does with max special attack, but it is still a great set if you want defensive backbone and a win condition (especially since it can spinblock). Support Ghostceus with WoW is also good.
  24. Donkey

    Donkey

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    >CM set
    >Weak

    pick 1
  25. Sweep

    Sweep (makeup)
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    252 HP is weak before it accumulates a couple boosts :|. Can't 2HKO Ho-Oh even with SR. Maxed out special attack CM Ghostceus hits hard right off the bat but isn't the glue he is looking for. Reread daHsu's post again.

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