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Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

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    Max speed and max HP is the norm for Calm Mind Arceus, because that makes you speed tie with other Arceus, or even outspeed them. Arceus's base stats are high enough that you don't have to worry too much about those few extra EVs being better spent elsewhere. Investing the rest in HP gives Arceus nice bulk while it can CM and Recover off damage, but maxing out Special Attack works as well if you are aiming for a quick sweep rather than relying on tanking hits. Either way works, I guess.
  2. Electro Gypsy

    Electro Gypsy

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    I would say you don't really even need to be Timid right now. CM mirrors are quite rare between other Arceus. Outspeeding Palkia is enough. Base 90 s should always be outsped though. I feel investing more in HP and Defense is just mire valuable. The lack of Latias and Latios right now rally give CM Arceus a lot more freedom with its spreads. Me personally? I believe something like 252 HP, 108 Defense, rest speed is a good spread on CM Arceus.
  3. locoghoul

    locoghoul

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    I'd invest enough to outspeed Extremekiller even if he has ES.
  4. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    It depends on what kind of CM Arceus you're using. If it's one of those defensive tanks, go 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Timid. If using an offensive one like Fire Arceus, use 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with either Modest or Timid. If using Sub/CM of any sort, have enough so you can make 101 HP Subs, max Speed, and the rest in SpA. Typically always max Speed on CM Arceus, unless your name is Grass Arceus, in which case you might want extra SpD EVs to take on Kyogre with.
  5. truevillany

    truevillany

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    meh... i guess i would go for the defnesive variant... in ubers it seems like every fucking pokemon has a set up move... I guess 252 hp 252 speed is the best although it seems odd
  6. AerialLight

    AerialLight

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    What's the best counter to Calm mind Arceus?

    Also what is the most appropriate check to CM Mewtwo?
  7. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    depends on the variant - cm steel and rock (without fb) is beaten by ferro, cm ghost is beaten by stuff like gastro (assuming no sub) and most cm can be revenged by scarfogre

    cm mewtwo is checked by giratina, gira-o can revenge with shadow sneak, lugia can *usually* tank a hit and pHaze (although it doesn't do much else). basically mewtwo is revenge killed mostly - scarfogre works
  8. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    As ssbbm said, depends on the variant. However, ScarfOgre isn't doing too much to max HP Arceus, failing to 2hko with Surf at +1 defense. Toxic is usually good at stopping Arceus' rampage, provided its not Mono-Dark, Steel, or Poison. Beyond that physical attacks are your best bet.
  9. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    You missed Chansey and Blissey who are possibly the best "counters" to CM Arceus !! Apart from stuff like Steel Arceus, Poison Arceus, and Dark Arceus, most other Arceus variants lose to the blobs. Fighting Arceus can threaten with Judgement but Toxic will screw it up.

    Also ScarfOgre needs to be modest to OHKO Mewtwo at +1 with full powered Spout :p
  10. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Like the others have said, it depends on the typing of Arceus. Ho-Oh covers most Calm Mind Arceus with the exceptions of Water, Rock and Electric Arceus by bypassing their increasing Special Defense with its powerful physical attacks. Calm Mind RestTalk Kyogre can set up alongside most defensive Calm Mind Arceus forms apart from Grass, Dragon, Water and Electric Arceuses. Latias can take any Calm Mind Arceus not named Ghost, Dark or Steel Arceus, or any Arceus carrying Roar (applies to Kyogre as well), and use Psyshock to bypass Calm Mind boosts. Fighting Arceus is completely destroyed by Mewtwo as well. Physically inclined Dialga and Zekrom are excellent checks to CM Water Arceus. Your own Calm Mind Arceus can also Calm Mind up alongside those that it has type advantage against.

    The best way to deal with CM Mewtwo is to revenge kill it with a strong physical attacker. Giratina-O can take most attacks from a +1 Mewtwo and 2HKO it with Shadow Sneak. Choice Scarf Zekrom can revenge kill Mewtwo, as well as Choice Band Arceus (or even just Extremekiller if you wear it down slightly). Modest Scarf Kyogre can OHKO it with Water Spout as well. Lugia and Giratina can usually take an attack (not very well) and phaze it out. Specially Defensive Dark Arceus can take any +1 attack from Mewtwo and OHKO with Payback. In the rain, Psychic Arceus can take anything Mewtwo can throw at it and 2HKO with Payback and Extremespeed.
  11. AerialLight

    AerialLight

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    Thanks for the help.

    What's a good check to extremekiller Arceus and Swords Dance Arceus-Ghosts?
  12. toybox

    toybox

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    Some good checks to Extremekiller are Skarmory, Giratina (both), Groudon, and Terrakion. Skarmory is usually a straight counter unless Arceus carries the rare Overheat. Giratina can survive two Shadow Claws after burning it and Rest off the damage. Fighting Arceus can also stomach a +2 ExtremeSpeed and take a big chunk with Judgement. Other forms of Arceus like Steel or Ghost can outspeed neutral nature Extremekiller and use Will-O-Wisp to cut its attack power, however both have to be weary of missing since +2 Earthquake or Shadow Claw will maim the both of them.

    Ghost Arceus is pretty easy to play around if you have Giratina/Lugia + Blissey/Chansey since it needs Shadow Force to kill the Great Walls and the pink blobs are unaffected by it. Once again, Skarmory checks most varients with its great typing and defenses. Revenge killing it as it uses SD is also a good option, for example Kyogre Water Spout will make short work of it.
  13. CrazyBacon

    CrazyBacon

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    Depends what moves they're running really.

    Those who lack overheat can be whirlwinded/Toxic'd by Skarmory, but those with overheat murder it.

    Giratina can burn them with Will O wisp an then just laugh at them.
    Lugia can set up reflect then whirlwind away.

    Physcially defensive groudon takes 1 move, and can roar it away or paralyse with thunder wave.
    Your own arceus can run a bulky spread and, again, burn with Will O wisp

    The key too neurtering pyhsical arceus is too burn it. then its quite easy too deal with.
  14. PoJ

    PoJ

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    Is Timid the only viable nature on Mewtwo, or can he go mixed / Physical and be effective (Without Selfdestruct)? I'm asking because I want to RNG abuse one, but I don't want to go with Timid because that's what everyone has!
  15. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

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    Mewtwo already can attack an opponent's Defense stat with its new signature move Psystrike, and splitting your EVs for physical attacks would probably be less-than-ideal. Besides, Mewtwo's physical movepool isn't anything to call home about. It would be almost criminal to put that tremendous base 154 SpA entirely to waste, so pure physical would probably be a really bad idea. All in all, Psystrike's got most of your needs covered, so mixed Mewtwo is pretty pointless.
  16. PoJ

    PoJ

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    Very true. Timid it is! Thanks. :)
  17. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    if you wanted to be original you can go modest for scarf i suppose...
  18. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Hey man, you forgot Sableye! Takes nothing from Extremekiller's Shadow Claw/EQ after he priority burned the killer, same as the Ghost Extremekiller and both are so easy to deal with Foul Play which uses the foe's attack against him! :D
  19. Electro Gypsy

    Electro Gypsy

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    Only...it has absolutely no utility outside those two. It is violently maimed by just about every other uber. If it had Encore? That would be a different story, but otherwise it burns Arceus, allowing it to hit +4 or even +6, where sableye finds itself easily 2hko'd, and the rest of your team has to deal with it at relatively high health.
  20. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    1116 Atk vs 273 Def & 304 HP (100 Base Power): 190 - 224 (62.50% - 73.68%)

    +4 EQ against Sableye when burned. Sure, it 2HKOes and you gotta keep Sableye at full health (which is most likely to happen with priority Recover). Wanna know how many Foul Play does?

    1116 Atk vs 276 Def & 381 HP (95 Base Power): 412 - 486 (108.14% - 127.56%)


    gg GG Arceus.


    Plus, no smart player would let it get to +4, it gets to +2 and then starts to attack because everyone think Sableye is OHKO'd by Splash which he clearly isn't :P
  21. polop

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    Aside from being a physical murdering threat (Ho-oh walks all over him though), it's also a fairly decent spin blocker, only one with access to Taunt, priority recover and WoW just make it better :D. Also It prevents Deo-s from setting up any spikes and isnt threatened by Ice beam. Physically Defensive Giratina-a is getting tensed up by the competition its got!
  22. Electro Gypsy

    Electro Gypsy

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    What about Groudon? How well does it stack up against other SD Arceus variants like Ground Arceus, or Rock Arceus? How well does it spinblock against Tentacruel or Excadrill? Priority Wisp is cool and all, but its just so much less Bulky than Ghost Arceus or Giratina A/O. Being Toxic Spike weak doesn't help it much either. And lets not even talk about how well it stacks up against any Uber special attacker...
  23. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    lol.

    i really can't see how you say sableye is bad when

    a) IT BASICALLY COUNTERS EXTREME KILLER ARCEUS wtf can do that?
    b) it beats groudon
    c) it's the only spinblocker that's *not* total forry set-up bait / tentacruel bait
    d) it beats ground arceus AND rock arceus or at least burns them which basically beats them anyway lol

    yes it can't beat special attackers but then again neither can groudon and i don't think we're saying groudon sucks...
  24. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    ^ Took my words. Tentacruel in rain can be annoying as Sableye takes ~60-70% from Scald, but most teams have something for that.

    Ghost Arceus is more Toxic Spikes weak than Sableye, plus you should always carry a spinner in Ubers metagame. Tentacruel is a great partner as it absorbs Toxic Spikes and beats Special Attackers like a man (:

    Excadrill really is no problem, just burn and Foul Play + Recover to death. Tentacruel is more of a problem like I mentioned above.
  25. Electro Gypsy

    Electro Gypsy

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    I wouldn't say getting 2hkoed after a burn is any sort of victory. After using it though, I have to say, as long as it avoids switching into attacks, it really does stop every physical setup sweeper. Even Bulk Up Dialga, something that other Spinblockers could never hope to accomplish outside of Aura Sphere Giratina O, which is HUGE for stall. Sableye, while a bit too pressured on Offensive teams, is honestly an excellent option for Uber Stall as a Spinblocker.

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