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[Smokay]

Is swift swim kingdra+kyogre on a rain team any good? and where should i put their nature and evs?

 

[Furai]

Kingdra in rain is pretty much Palkia on steroids rofl. Kingdra outspeeds a shit ton of stuff, and is very hard to wall due to Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and Draco Meteor, plus it can it Physically with Waterfall or Outrage. I'd use ChestoRest Kyogre to preserve it's survivability on the field and to be able to call rain at any time. I picked ChestoRest and not the mono-attacker because of coverage, but the mono-attacker should work as well. Just stay wary for Ferrothorn!

sets

Kyogre @ Chesto Berry
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed
• Rest
• Calm Mind
• Scald / Surf
• Ice Beam / Thunder

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Mild / Rash Nature
4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
• Hydro Pump
• Draco Meteor
• Outrage
• Waterfall

On Kyogre, just pick the moves depending on your team's needs.

GL

 

[hamiltonion]

Kingdra in rain is pretty much Palkia on steroids rofl. Kingdra outspeeds a shit ton of stuff, and is very hard to wall due to Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and Draco Meteor, plus it can it Physically with Waterfall or Outrage. I'd use ChestoRest Kyogre to preserve it's survivability on the field and to be able to call rain at any time. I picked ChestoRest and not the mono-attacker because of coverage, but the mono-attacker should work as well. Just stay wary for Ferrothorn!

sets

Kyogre @ Chesto Berry
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed
• Rest
• Calm Mind
• Scald / Surf
• Ice Beam / Thunder

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Mild / Rash Nature
4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
• Hydro Pump
• DrWaterfall

On Kyogre, just pick the moves depending on your team's needs.

GL

Yeah, Kingdra is rain is just as good as he said it was. But just watch out for stuff like Rayquaza since it will destroy Kingdra thanks to Air Lock. Also if you want to lure and kill Ferrothorn, nothing does it better than this baby

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Modest Nature
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Speed
• Water Spout
• Surf
• Thunder
• Ice Beam

Really bulky and Surf will 2HKO Ferrothorn most of the time with a layer of Spikes. Also Palkia > Kingdra anyday, thanks to Fire Blast !

 

[waterwarrior]

While Kingdra isn't bad with Kyogre, I find Choice Scarf Palkia (any set really, rain boosted Surf wrecks shit, and Hydro Pump wrecks even more) to be more effective. While Kingdra is faster thanks to Swift Swim, its measly (by Ubers standards) 95 base Sp. Atk is pretty much the reason I don't use it.

 

[toybox]

Sure, Kingdra doesn't have the oomph of 150 base SpA like Palkia and other Ubers do nor the movepool (Fire Blast, Thunder...), but it is just as viable if one can play to its strengths. It has the speed to easily bypass Terrakion, one of the fastest Scarfers in the tier, with a neutral nature. It also isn't hindered by a Scarf in the Rain and Groudon doesn't like switching into Hydro Pumps or Draco Meteors, Sun or not. Rayquaza presents problems but it can't just simply switch in due to fear of getting slammed by Draco Meteor. Get a layer of SR and Spikes up (easy with Ferrothorn) and go to town.

Choice Specs Kyogre doesn't have the survivability as ChestoRest but it'll lure in and easily drown shit like Ferrothorn or Chansey with Water Spout, 2HKOing both easily.

 

[locoghoul]

Yeah, Kingdra is rain is just as good as he said it was. But just watch out for stuff like Rayquaza since it will destroy Kingdra thanks to Air Lock. Also if you want to lure and kill Ferrothorn, nothing does it better than this baby

Kyogre @ Chesto Berry
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed
• Rest
• Calm Mind
• Scald / Surf
• Ice Beam / Thunder

Doesn't Power Whip 2HKOs? Not to mention Leech Seed. That's more like a blob lure

 

[Go10]

Lure and kill Ferro ? With a Chesto Ogre ? Never. The best way to do it is with SpecsOgre + Arceus Grass for blocking any sort of recovery (i.e Leech Seed).

 

[shrang]

Yeah, Kingdra is rain is just as good as he said it was. But just watch out for stuff like Rayquaza since it will destroy Kingdra thanks to Air Lock. Also if you want to lure and kill Ferrothorn, nothing does it better than this baby

Kyogre @ Chesto Berry
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed
• Rest
• Calm Mind
• Scald / Surf
• Ice Beam / Thunder

Yeah, I really can't see how this is beating Ferrothorn unless you get a Scald burn. Power Whip 2HKOs you after Stealth Rock damage. Unless you burn Ferrothorn with Scald, you're losing pretty badly.

 

[hamiltonion]

Doesn't Power Whip 2HKOs? Not to mention Leech Seed. That's more like a blob lure

Lure and kill Ferro ? With a Chesto Ogre ? Never. The best way to do it is with SpecsOgre + Arceus Grass for blocking any sort of recovery (i.e Leech Seed).

Yeah, I really can't see how this is beating Ferrothorn unless you get a Scald burn. Power Whip 2HKOs you after Stealth Rock damage. Unless you burn Ferrothorn with Scald, you're losing pretty badly.

That was a typo, a FUCKING typo. If you see that ChestoResto set, it is exactly the same as the one Furai posted. I meant to post fucking SpecsOgre but I messed up while C/P'ing FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU


EDIT: Oh i just realised i c/p'ed the specs ogre INSIDE the hide tags and in the quote and put Furai's set outside in my post.......(facepalm)

 

[Furai]

Yeah barry, that's what I told you the entire time!

 

[ssbbm]

or if you really wanna kill Ferro, run something like

Kyogre @ Life Orb / Splash Plate
252 HP / 252 SpAtk
-Calm Mind
-Ice Beam
-Thunder
-Hydro Pump

and laugh as your 2HKO Ferrothorn with +1 Hydro Pump / Ice Beam

 

[Go10]

The only CM version of Ogre who can beat Ferro is the ResTalk, and even him need the burn.

 

[locoghoul]

or if you really wanna kill Ferro, run something like

Kyogre @ Life Orb / Splash Plate
252 HP / 252 SpAtk
-Calm Mind
-Ice Beam
-Thunder
-Hydro Pump

and laugh as your 2HKO Ferrothorn with +1 Hydro Pump / Ice Beam

Ferro switches in as you CM. You Hydro Pump, Ferro Leech Seeds you. Ferro protects and stalls you out. Hydro Pump does more than Ice Beam btw

 

[Go10]

The Protect version is outclassed; he doesnt have it nowadays. But still, Ogre'll lose the duel.

 

[waterwarrior]

Or, if you really want to kill Ferrothorn with Kyogre:

YOU DON'T, GET OVER YOURSELF. You're never going to OHKO it, and Go10, 90% of Ferro's I see have Toxic/Leech Seed/ Protect/ hazard or something like that. I don't know what you're taking about. Ferro will be able to stall a Kyogre out. Just run something else for it.

 

[Go10]

Ferro've never toxic, never (and dont talk about Arceus please, he'll never stay if he cant kill you right now). Maybe you're against some bad player. TW is a staple for not letting Mewtwo/Rayquaza/Terrakion/Arceus and some mons like that to setup quickly. Hazards obviously (SR or Spikes), Leech Seed, and an offensive move on the last slot (Power Whip in most case). Protect isnt really useful right now, you waste a slot. However, its a staple on the DW where he need to recover his health since he doesnt have Leftovers (yeah chandelure).

 

[hamiltonion]

Ferro've never toxic, never (and dont talk about Arceus please, he'll never stay if he cant kill you right now). Maybe you're against some bad player. TW is a staple for not letting Mewtwo/Rayquaza/Terrakion/Arceus and some mons like that to setup quickly. Hazards obviously (SR or Spikes), Leech Seed, and an offensive move on the last slot (Power Whip in most case). Protect isnt really useful right now, you waste a slot. However, its a staple on the DW where he need to recover his health since he doesnt have Leftovers (yeah chandelure).

That is actually untrue. Toxic is an incrediblely useful move to have on Ferrothorn. Its been around for sometime and Trickroom, me, shrang have all used it. Sure, you have to give up on Protect, but the ability to screw up Grass Arceus( who WILL ALWAYS stay in on Ferrothorn since its just set up bait for him) can be invaluable on a Rain and Toxic is just a useful move overall. TBH, I've barely ever seen Thunder Wave Ferrothorn used in Ubers.

 

[Go10]

Toxic's really just for GrassCeus who can be checked by your own Arceus (who win the mind war thanks to TW), this isnt even an option IMO. TW let you paralyse some serious threat which can be instant win in most case. Also, its not like GrassCeus like being para; when you add the spikes, SR, and in most defensive rain, Dialga+Lugia, this isnt a problem at all. In the offensive rain, its far better to use TW since you have a ton of mons who can kill him, the main threat with Arceus's his speed, being para' can be a checkmate.

 

[Ragdoll]

Is it stats or ability that make Garchomp an uber?

 

[Go10]

Both; add to it the movepool though.

 

[Tobes]

To further elaborate Garchomp was originally OU when this generation started, but after a while people felt that he was broken and banned him. Whether this was due to frustration to Sand Veil hax or Garchomp's overall ability is a subjective argument.

 

[Go10]

No matter what we say, he deserve his ban for these reasons. The thing which make me sad is that Arceus shut off completely Garchomp in Uber. The only issue is sandveil but keeping it is pretty hard.

 

[waterwarrior]

No matter what we say, he deserve his ban for these reasons. The thing which make me sad is that Arceus shut off completely Garchomp in Uber. The only issue is sandveil but keeping it is pretty hard.

ScarfChomp is an actual threat in this tier. While yes, ExtremeKiller Arceus is better, Chomp is a great revenge killer in this tier, plus he has Outrage, which destroys a good amount of the tier outright.

 

[Go10]

Seriously, Garchomp is horrible in Scarf now, he cant break Arceus, even the offensive one. The SD version (well, all of the SD mons in Uber) is destroyed alive by defensive Arceus.

He's decent, but not as good as you're saying. If I want a physical Scarf, i'd rather go for Zekrom who can RK some Arceus Minder.

 

[Furai]

And Garchomp cannot Revenge Kill CM Arceuses? Both really do the same, only Zekrom can Scout and Garchomp probably has better coverage.