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Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    Bolt Strike from Adamant Zekrom - the standard CS - on Arceus 252/0 : 50-59%
    Earthquake from Jolly Garchomp - the standard CS - on Arceus 252/0 : 31-37%
    Outrage from Jolly Garchomp - the standard CS - on Arceus 252/0 : 38-44%

    Yes, he cant. ScarfChomp is a shitty mons IMO, he's trully limited, he's not what he was in DPP. He cant even RK Mewtwo in good health, Zekrom is far better if you need a CS and can check Rayquaza.
  2. CrazyBacon

    CrazyBacon

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    I have a few questions, i have played this teir extensively (peaking at number 8) but now my confidence is starting too waver, since I started playing better opponents (ie ones that dont run ingame teams). I have gone on a massive tilt and am questioning my team, but also my abilities as a battler. it consists of;

    -scarf palkia
    -DDance rayquaza with haban and overheat in place of extremspeed
    -wobbuffet
    -choice band scizor
    -calm mind ghost arceus
    and forretress.

    But I am having difficulties with;
    -Ho-oH (who usually subs up and destroys me since its in the sun),

    -Normal arceus (extreme killer) (1 swords dance and most of this team crumbles)

    -Ghost arceus, Both swords dance and calm mind. (I generally am hopeless against this mon)

    so with that in mind, could anyone help improve my team?
    Also silly things like i once switched a skarmory into a ghost arceus, expecting swods dance, it calm minded and killed me next turn with focus blast. From then on it was gg I had nothing too stop it. I've considered scarf Zekrom, but then I am walled too badly by groudon.

    TLDNR:
    a) could you improve my team? It is far from perfect.

    any advice is welcome, i thank you for taking the time too read this and look forward too reading your responses.
  3. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Scarf / Choice Band Terrakion is a good check to both Ho-Oh and Arceus. Stone Edge will send Ho-Oh to the next dimension while CC OHKOes Arceus with a little residual damage. ExtremeSpeed wont OHKO thanks to Terrakion's resistances. I am unsure about Forretress on this team but if you quicly manage to get in 2 layer of T Spikes, Ghost Arceus will die a slow death. Apart from that Chansey works too but it doesnt really fit on such a team. Ghost Arceus is really hard to counter really but you could try Encoring it with Wobbuffet. Modest Scarf Kyogre does 50% with Water Spout with Arceus at +1 SpD. Just try to prevent it from setting up. Darkrai also works as a check to Ghostceus. If you use Darkrai just remove Wobbuffet or Ferrothorn.
  4. CrazyBacon

    CrazyBacon

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    Thank you ^_^ I am finding it much easier to deal with my bogeymons now. Much appreciated :)
  5. Darkblader

    Darkblader

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    Just wondering, how effective is Overheat on Groudon's Rock Polish set?
  6. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    The only real use of Overheat is to get rid of Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Grass Arceus reliably well who otherwise can be a pest. However, it must be used with caution otherwise you willl be stuck with a -2 Groudon with no chance of killing Skarmory.
  7. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    I tend to use Fire Punch/Fire Blast, at least you can avoid the Barry's case and the drop in power isnt significiant.
  8. jessifer

    jessifer

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    What's a good Extremekiller Arceus counter? (Perferably one that also fits well on a rain team.)
  9. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    Giratina-A beats EK Arceus 99% of the time, and its amazing regardless.

    Skarmory also works very well, just watch out for the rare Fire Blast/ Overheat EKArceus (and by rare, I mean VERY rare). Rain helps with the Fire move incredibly though.

    Scarf Terrakion isn't a counter, but is a great check, being able to take a +2 ESpeed (although if the opponent's Arceus gets to +4, you have to be careful, as there's a 62.5% chance of a OHKO with one layer of Spikes up, if it gets +6... you're dead) and OHKO with CC in return.
  10. jessifer

    jessifer

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    Thanks. What's a good set for it?
  11. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Pick from either:

    Giratina
    248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD OR 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Def

    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Dragon Tail
    Will-O-Wisp

    I personally prefer the Specially Defensive set since nothing really attacks Giratina with physical attacks since evrything thinks its physically based. Also its resistances are more geared towards taking special hits anyway.
  12. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Serious question: what kills Ferrothorn on a rain team? It's like no matter which Pokemon I use on my rain team, it just easily switches in and sets up hazards or Leech Seed while nothing can OHKO it without being a really obvious switch out to a Fire resist. Since spinning is so much harder than spin blocking too those hazards just stay there too. Only thing I can think of is to set up alongside it with my own Ferrothorn, and then play with full hazards down on both sides.

    Suggestions?
  13. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    That is one way. I know there has been many times when I played Drown All-like teams and basically boiled down to whoever got hazards down the quickest and started phazing the earliest. If you can get Spikes down quick, you can start Dragon Tailing the hell out of the opposition and Ferrothorn is actually dying very quickly to that (onto the fact that it can't spin either). Predicting Ferrothorn switch-ins and Fire Blasting it really helps too.

    If that's not your cup of tea, you can try luring it and/or setting up on it. Basically, do what you do in OU.

    Lures:
    - Sub Mixed Zekrom
    - Lustrous Orb Palkia (Surf and Fire Blast generally puts it beyond repair)
    - Specs Kyogre/Palkia

    Pokemon that set up on Ferrothorn (on rain teams):
    - Grass Arceus (although kind of hard to sweep with this thing, though)
    - Bulk Up Dialga
    - Sub/boost anything (Gyro Ball may make it hard), ESPECIALLY SubClaws Zekrom
    - Thundurus
    - Darkrai
    - Magnezone

    Pokemon that don't care about Ferrothorn (on rain teams):
    - Super effective Arceus forms
    - Ho-Oh (never rule out this thing, EVER, even on rain teams)
    - Skarmory
    - Excadrill
    - Terrakion
    - Mewtwo
    - Dialga
    - Ludicolo
    - Kabutops
  14. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Nice list. There're some things I'm not willing to risk (like Kabutops, who may die to Power Whip; also Ludicolo hardly seems strong enough to be used in Ubers, as a sweeper anyway. It also lets Ferrothorn set up), and others seem rather shaky (do you Taunt with Thundurus or do you risk his switch out?). But Zekrom should be a good choice as long as it avoids Leech Seed or the uncommon Thunder Wave on the switch in. Aside from Magnezone SubCharge and SubClaws Zekrom, what other Sub / boost Pokemon are there that does not get demolished by Gyro Ball + Power Whip? A SubCM Mewtwo with some defensive EVs?

    Excadrill looks promising. You can Sub on Ferrothorn and then spin its hazards. Haven't run calcs to see how much Gyro or Power Whip does, though.

    Also strange to see Ho-oh on a rain team. It seems rather silly to commit Rapid Spin support to something that can't use its Fire STAB nearly as well. What set are you thinking of?
  15. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    Groudon exists, there's really no reason to use Sunny Day unless you're THAT afraid of losing the weather war (and even then, Kyogre will come back in later and just troll you).

    Azelf is an interesting choice for Ubers too. Mewtwo and Darkrai do everything Azelf can do (and they do it better) so why bother?

    Shadow Tag Chandelure is completely unrelated to the discussion, don't bring him up.

    Other Grass types? So we got:
    Ferrothorn: nope.
    Grassceus: Maybe.
    Skymin: Has a chance, but not if its the Scarf set

    Honestly, the best way around a Ferro is just being prepared, and making sure he can't wall or stall your entire team (hell, half my current team has a way to deal with him. Somewhat unintentional, just kind of happened). Many pokes in Ubers can be changed a bit to take him on, like every other threat in the meta. Palkia can run Fire Blast, Zekrom can run Hone Claws, etc. Obviously, he sets up hazards amazingly, but he's just not that difficult to KO.
  16. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Just your standard SubRoost set. Brave Bird is your main move, and is still very effective. Sacred Fire is there when you want to burn things. It's also a nice weapon to use against sun teams.
  17. Plaid

    Plaid

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    Nobody at all mentioned Overheat/Fire Blast Rayquaza? It totally shuts Ferro down. I run a rain team and I love being able to hit with Ray's Overheat because Air Lock means it's still hitting at full power. Also, if you're feeling really ballsy, you can set up on the Ferro in case it decides to switch. Gyro ball kinda stings and Thunder Wave means you're screwed, but if it decides to switch (or leech seed lol) on a Dragon Dance, your opponent is in a lot of trouble.

    But yeah, I love having Overheat Rayquaza on a rain team for that reason.
  18. Vratix

    Vratix

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    Also, (shame this was left out because it has come up in the CCAT a few times) Deoxys-A with Superpower beats the you-know-what out of Ferrothorn.
  19. marilli

    marilli
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    I've been interested in playing Ubers, but there are never any opponents on the ladder so I never got the chance to learn the metagame. I know that Kyogre, Arceus, Groudon are like the most common mons and other basic stuff like that. But as soon as I face anyone that doesn't use a charizard, my team basically falls apart. Should I first start off with a copypasted team from the likes of Trickroom and Jibaku and start building my knowledge from ground up? So many things in Ubers is so diverse, and while I know the common sets, that in itself doesn't seem to be enough. What's some useful advice for an 'uber noob'?
  20. Banedon

    Banedon

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    It's certainly not uncommon for a first team to completely fall apart against specific threats. You deal with it the same way you deal with any other tier: you see which of your team's Pokemon isn't achieving what it should be achieving, and replace that / certain moves with something that can deal with the new threat. Or you can just steal a team to figure out more about the tier.

    Other things to know about the tier: almost everything is extremely bulky, which makes Toxic generally more powerful than Thunder Wave because barring a full paralysis you'll have to take an attack from the paralyzed Pokemon anyway. Spinners are generally much weaker than ghosts, although there are very few viable Pokemon of either (Forretress + Tentacruel / Excadrill on rain teams vs. Giratina, Giratina-O and Ghost Arceus). Toxic Spikes are extremely strong because there are so many grounded Ubers and very few grounded poison types. Beyond that, I'd say just play :)

    What's the best sweeper to set up with Wobbuffet?
  21. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    Literally any sweeper works except for, somewhat ironically, EKArceus. Wobb can't do anything to EKArceus' checks/counters except for Terrakion. Pretty much, if a sweeper is threatened by something offensive, Wobb makes a good partner.
  22. CrazyBacon

    CrazyBacon

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    Pack a revenge killer. Scarf Zekrom, scarf kyogre, whatever. Just pack one or psycho killer Mewtwo will pwn you lol.

    Have a check for Extreme Killer arceus. Skarmory is generally the best one, as it can whirlwind it away and lay some spikes down. But others include; scarf/band terrakion, ghost arceus, giratina etc.

    Have a kyogre check. mons that resist water and can outspeed and severly threaten kyogre are good, Dialga, palkia, grassceus.

    Have multiple ways too kill ferrothorn. It will just come in time and time again and annoy you if you dont.

    Spikes/Toxic spikes and stealth rocks are handy too have, but if you're going for the bare minimum, I suggest having just stealth rocks, as it will dissuade Ho-oH coming in time and time again and wrecking everything.

    I suggest Dragon dance rayquaza. Mons like scarf palkia and garchomp (which check it) are killed by countercoat. Futhermore walls like lugia (which will cripple you) can be trapped with tickle and then you can switch too a pursuit user (tyranitar, scizor) and end there life making it much easier for ray too sweep.
  23. Banedon

    Banedon

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    After trying Rayquaza + Wobbuffet for many games it seems to me that Rayquaza needs a lot of hazard support (or a lot of weakened Pokemon) to pull off a sweep, and for a team without early hazards like the ones I've been using, it's not the best Pokemon to use. Also walls like Lugia aren't easily trapped either because if I switch Wobbuffet into them there's a good chance I get phazed out.

    Hm ...

    PS: Ferrothorn is still such a whore. zzz !
  24. Furai

    Furai a ╬ędefender // a ╬▒guardian
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    I'm going to assume you're talking about DDRayquaza, because Mixed Rayquaza takes no support, really. Just SR, or maybe even Spin, but that's about it.

    Anyway, I still don't get how Ferrothorn is annoying. ExtremeSpeed is useless on the DD set, so you can just use Overheat or Fire Blast which will be as powerful as outside of Rain due to Air Lock (I think, but not 100% sure) along with Outrage and Earthquake.

    I'd say that Mixed Zekrom is a good partner because it hits like a truck and lures in many common DD Rayquaza counters like Lugia or Groudon. Wobby should take care of the Scarfers only, in my opinion.
  25. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Yes I'm talking about DD Rayquaza. Air Lock suspends rain, so Ferrothorn will die.

    Problem is, in my case is that I can't easily switch in Rayquaza. There are a few things out there I can switch in on, I just can't do anything afterwards - for example, I can come in on Groudon's Earthquake, but I can't KO it and can't force it out while it can take me out with Stone Edge / Dragon Tail. It's the same with Ferrothorn: I can't use Rayquaza as a check because, even if I avoid Leech Seed / Gyro ball on the switch in, Fire Blast / Overheat is an easy switch out. Without boosts there are plenty of things that wall Rayquaza, taking more unrecoverable SR damage. Ferrothorn's really really annoying because few things can OHKO it without being extremely obvious (it's going to be a Fire move!) so it'll switch out, Protect, etc, and put up more hazards. zzz.

    I'm not using heavy offense at the moment and it may be just my style, but I prefer that if I use a LO sweeper on a non-HO team I either sweep a lot (at least two Pokemon must die) or have Magic Guard / instant recovery so I don't die so fast. DD LO Rayquaza looks effective enough, but not on my team.

    What other sweepers can I try setting up with Wobbuffet?

    Also Darkrai is such a whore too, that stupid 80% OHKO move is absurdly deadly, especially with the Focus Sash set that is almost guaranteed a sleep and a heavy hit on something else.

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