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Attacking Types In October

Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by X-Act, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    Here is the amount of damage percentage that a hypothetical 30-power move of the type shown will do to the metagame on average from a Pokemon with 100 Attack and 100 Special Attack:

    Average damage in the Standard metagame:

    [​IMG]
    A Special Fire move will deal 74% more damage than a Special Poison move of the same power in Standard.

    Average damage in the Underused metagame:
    [​IMG]
    A Physical Rock move will deal 57% more damage than a Special Poison move of the same power in UU.

    Average damage in the Uber metagame:
    [​IMG]
    A Physical Dark move will deal 112% more damage (i.e. more than twice) than a Special Psychic move of the same power in ubers.
  2. Marowack

    Marowack

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    This'll come in really handy, thanks.
  3. Drab Emordnilap

    Drab Emordnilap

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    The rock weakness of UU really shows how Stealth Rock is keeping a lot of UUs in UU.
  4. Venom

    Venom red eyes no visine
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    go Rock Slide,

    awesome job x-act
  5. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    Wait...

    What is a special Rock move? It might be because it's 6:30 but I can't think of one.
  6. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
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    ancientpower
  7. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
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    It's amazing that special water is so far down the list, yet Water Spout Specs Kyogre is so popular.
  8. Malfunction

    Malfunction

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    Special Fire on top thanks to Scizor. I'm sure.
    Thanks X-Act! <3
  9. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    Power Gem, AncientPower, Hidden Power Rock. I think I should give a chance to Lunatone.


    And it's pretty interesting to see that, even with Blissey and Heatran in top 5, Special Fire is still the best offensive type to use in OU.
  10. FROSTYMOFO

    FROSTYMOFO

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    Sounds like Stone Edge is everyones new best friend.
  11. twash

    twash
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    Awesome stuff again X-Act, appreciated.

    Fire and Ice at the top in OU..no real surprise...same said for Special Poison being within the bottom three in every tier.

    Thanks once again!
  12. FROSTYMOFO

    FROSTYMOFO

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    Yeah...Sludge Bomb gets no love any more. They seriously shouldve kept poison SE against bug, like in RBY. That way, it could do something to 2 types...at least...=/
  13. mien

    mien
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    That fire really shows why Heatran is so popular in OU and also the how worse the steel dominitation in OU has become

    Besides just wondering is usage taken in account for this? Knowing Fighting types, Steelix and Claydol completely dominate the UU metagame i fail to see how Rock still can be so powerfull
  14. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    Yes, usage is taken into account, knowing X-Act.

    Fire being so high is a bit odd since Heatran, Tyranitar and Salamence are everywhere. I suppose I'll blame Skymin and especially Scizor.
  15. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    This used my own type coverage Excel sheet, which takes usage of Pokemon, average defensive EVs, average defensive nature, type chart, Levitate, Dry Skin, Flash Fire, Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, Thick Fat, Filter, Solid Rock, Wonder Guard, Heat Proof and Motor Drive for every metagame distinctly into account.

    So it should be pretty accurate.

    Power Gem, HP Rock and Ancientpower aren't that good, by the way. Their power is only 70 at most. Remember that the charts shown are of moves having equal power. Still, they deal more damage than Sludge Bomb most of the time...

    Also uber people, consider dropping the move Psychic from your uber legend movesets even if it gets STAB. Gengar gets STAB Sludge Bomb and doesn't use it in Standard, for good reason.

    Furthermore, the reason Special Water is so down on the uber list is PRECISELY Kyogre's massive usage. Although remember, Water Spout has 150 power and it gets Rain Dance backup, so it still dishes out incredible damage.
  16. CWW

    CWW

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    Isn't the interpretation of dragon moves a bit skewed this way, since you know, it only deals super effective damage to one type?
  17. Legacy Raider

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    No, seeing as it is also only resisted by one type. The fact that it hits so much for neutral does it more benefit than moves that are resisted by lots.
  18. Il Mitico™

    Il Mitico™

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    Incredible, Dark and Ghost have passed Ground moves! Think that isn't a most used moves of RSE...

    By the way, Special Rock in 6° position for Standard Metagame? And what are these moves?
  19. Mekkah

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    Special Rock is so high because it _would_ hit hard if it had the same power as other moves (30 in this instance). But since the Special Rock moves suck, they're not used much. And to make a full circle, this explains why people aren't afraid of using Pokemon/teams weak to Special Rock.
  20. petrie911

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    Perhaps for a better comparison, you should see how much damage, on average, the most popular attacking moves do in the metagame. This would allow for power discrepancies, such as with Special Rock.

    In fact, although it might be a lot of work, you could even factor in the frequency in which various pokemon have them on their movesets, giving an even more accurate "expected damage". It would actually account for stats, and would probably show just why SpecsOgre's Water Spout is so horrendously powerful despite Special Water being a ppor uber attacking type.
  21. Pombo

    Pombo

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    2 isnt a good number, but is something.... but wouldnt matter... what would it hit? Heracross? i Think Poisoon > Steel, since poison destroys steel
  22. Paltheos

    Paltheos

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    That's because these charts are a defensive primer. As X-Act said in the opening post, the offensive stats of the user and the base power of the attack used are constant. The variables (should be) the typing and defensive stats of the recipient (I'm assuming the user is neutral-typed).

    To apply the information, you need to weight for the differences in base power between the available alternatives for a user (Mewtwo can use Ice Beam or Shadow Ball; BP of Ice Beam = 1.1875BP of Shadow Ball), the offensive stats of a user, whether a user has STAB on an attack-type or not, characteristics of a pokemon a user of an attack may encounter, and any other battle conditions or contingencies in which an attack may be used or effected (water or fire attacks in rain, respectively, fighting attacks during Guts activation, etc.).

    For the example you cited, the fact that many common ubers resist water is more than offset by Water Spout's enormous base power, Kyogre's equally enormous special attack stat compounded by choice specs, STAB on the attack type, and an additional boost by rain.

    That may seem like allot of work, but these types of lists summarize the data well and allow us to juggle all the information available just a little more effectively.
  23. twash

    twash
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    Exactly. X-Act said himself this is done by a hypothetical 30-power move, from a Pokemon with 100 Attack and 100 Special Attack.

    As Mekkah explained, if there was a say, 95 power Rock-type special move that Gamefreak programmed into the game, that number would possibly decrease due to the possibility of usages of certain Pokémon changing. Because there isn't a decent Rock-type special move, people don't tend to build their teams with it in mind, so it would be more threatening if you put every move at the same base power, making it equally as good power wise to any other move. All this is done with every move having 30 base power.

    It really is quite interesting, I don't know how you find time to dish out all these X-Act!
  24. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    hmm..
    Did you take into account that almost all Lati@s have Soul Dew so have much more SpD? Along the same lines, what about the tiny number of Clamperl who have Deapseascale?
    A little nitpick in an otherwise great chart, but knowing you you probably already thought of it.
    Interesting to see how different metagames are most affected by different types.
  25. wildfire393

    wildfire393

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    Water Spout is a 150 base power attack at full HP. Kyogre has 150 base special attack. Rain, STAB, and Specs all increase the damage further by 50% each. This means a maxed out Kyogre has an offensive potential of 438*150*1.5*1.5*1.5 = 221737.5. To put things in perspective, a SD'd Garchomp's Outrage with Adamant Max attack and Life Orb would be 394*2*120*1.5*1.3 = 184392, which is only 83% of Kyogre's damage.

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