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[ZandgaiaX]

OU Gen 4

Legitimate Threats:
Tangrowth (being really generous)
Porygon2
Dugtrio
Crobat
Abomasnow
Cresselia
Raikou

Has a niche:
Claydol
Donphan
Hitmontop
Lanturn
Slowbro (Machamp Counter)
Spiritomb
Ambipom

Sort-of-could-do-something-in-OU:
Alakazam
Azumarril
Clefable
Chansey (Completely Outclassed)
Kabutops
Mesprit
Milotic (Completely Outclassed)
Rhyperior
Venusaur
Weezing (Gyara / Heracross counter)
Drapion
Hariyama
Moltres
Toxicroak
Heracross
PorygonZ
Wal(l)rein

Removed/Changed:
Porygon2: The best mixed counter to dragons/heatran/gyarados/jolteon and a whole lot more
Dugtrio: Trapping Pinky-Blissey was massive back then, please compare to now if you would.
Crobat: Lead Metagame and one of the highest speed-stats available.
Abomasnow: Hailstall, that's all, not to mention it could beat water types if playing it's cards right rather than the other way around.
Cresselia: One of the bulkiest CMers around, not to mention that it was actually broken to CM with Cresselia if the opponent didn't had Haze or a Phaze
Raikou: Fast CM'er, the offensive version of Suicune: one of the best pokémon last gen with it's crocune set.
Ambipom: Sure it was never great, but fake-out + taunt was enough of an easy lead metagame to make it viable.
Drapion: Stall, not to mention having a good phazer set, an immunity to psychic and the ability to absorb poison.
Hariyama: Lead Metagame, I had a huge succes using this, as well as Leadachi with Energy ball, but yeah.
Moltres: The only thing holding this thing back was SR, seriously.
Toxicroak: Top-threat because you wouldn't whether your opponent wouldn't have one.
Heracross: Ok, you got me there. Outclassed, but still used a fair amount.
PorygonZ: It can 2HKO Blissey if it wants to, not to mention it looks full of swag.

Changes underlined. What you seem to have forgotten is the fact that Gen 4 was Balanced, OU was OU because it was balanced: everything fitted right in there (except E-vire, shut up). There was a reason why almost nothing switched tiers, that is because everything in OU could cover something in OU: yes there were pokémon of lower tiers that were actually Better in OU than their own tier because of the struck-balance,

Porygon2 being the best example of this: being the only real non-steel to be able to deal with dragons and Gyarados: top-threats of last gen. Do also not forget that Gen 4 didn't had the shitty team preview, as such certain pokémon could come out as a real suprise to you. For example, you have a powerful gyarados ready to sweep with a dragon dance under it's belt and Waterfall + Stone edge as options. Your sub was broken by something (I do not know what, but at least it was possible back then). Suddenly your opponent pulls out a Toxicroak or Porygon2 out of nowhere: OH SH!T, and gyarados suddenly is left biting the dust. Why? Not because something was stronger or faster: but because something else was simply able to beat it.

Gen 5

Legitimate Threats:
Amoongus
Ditto
Kingdra
Mew
Sableye
Slowbro
Stoutland
Victini
Xatu

Has a niche:
Abomasnow
Azelf
Azumarril
Porygon2
Quagsire
Virizion
Weavile
Zoroark
Mienshao

Sort-of-could-do-something-in-OU:
Cofagrigus
Lanturn
Raikou
Sharpedo
Tornadus
Bronzong
Roserade

Removed/Changed:
Zoroark: Team Preview killed this thing, there was a time when Zoroark was considered Broken because of it's ability alone. Until Team Preview was revealed.
Mienshao: I would love to say lead-metagame, but we lack one. It's only niche is that it's a faster scarfer than terrakion.. And that it can scout for ite- oh no wait, we don't have that anymore.
Brozong: Sure Bronzong can wall, but what can it do other than that? Gyro Ball? T-wave? Stealth Rock? Yeah, and then?
Roserade: It's only good if used with a scarf or as a spiker, and then: what the hell are you doing here. We got ferrothorn. Though it does have leafstorm (woohoo..) and sleep powder, but venusaur does it better.
Aerodactyl: I'm not even going to bother
Darmanitan: Rain beats it, well and stealth rock.
Heracross: I'm suprised you even dare mention it, I mean come on: there's terrakion and- well just terrakion and breloom but still.
Sandslash: you even bothered to call it, horribly horribly outclassed by ANYTHING. Except that it has rapid spin.
Snorlax: How dare you, with only rest as healing-method it becomes dead-weight. Hydro Pumps are ok-ish, but snorlax can't do much to gain all that health back, not to mention the fighting types. Even P2 does a better job.
Zapdos: Not until it gets it's DW ability it's not.
Chandelure: Rain
Cobalion: well it's steel type alright, and fighting. But does it resist water or is very strong? No sir.
Frosslass: Hail only, in Gen 4 it was a serious threat. Now it's a joke.
Gorebyss: Sure it can baton pass shell-smashes, but then what? Not to mention Cloyster
Machamp: I tried to use it, it's dynamic punch is still feared. But it's just too slow to work.
Rotom-H: Why would anyone use this when there's Rotom-W, it may have been the best of OU of all the rotoms it is just bad now.
Scrafty: It's own bloody page states that it's too slow to seriously compete with the other fighting types.
Swampert: It was ok-ish last gen, gastrodon is better this gen. What more do you want? Stealth Rock? Please.
Victreebel: As you said, outclassed by Venusaur. Not to mention nobody uses this thing, so why would this be even on the list?

See the changes? Have you checked their stats, movepools and abilities? Noticed that the pokémon that were viable in Gen 4 but not OU are actually Weaker than those of Gen 5. The reasons these are even on the list are at least one of the following reasons:

A) They can abuse weather
B) They counter Weather
C) Support

Have you realized that those that did not make it on the list have similiar reasons?

A) They are (technically) outclassed
B) They are weak to Weather
C) They can't support weather (properly)
D) Power Creep

I am aware that the Power Creep destroyed a lot of pokémon but have you just scrolled through the page of all the fully-evolved pokémon and seen the potential in something they have? But in the end they are all held back because of one thing: weather. I'm not saying all weather should be banned, but at least thoroughly looked through. Especially Politoed with Drizzle under the support clause. Why? Because as a lot of people state: they use Politoed because of it's ability, not because it's good.

If something is shit but gets a godsend ability that's so massive as Drizzle, then they become 'good'. Not because of their stats, or movepool but because of their ability. If Luvdisc had gotten Drizzle, we'd just slap on a choiceband, give it aqua jet and three other moves, and it'll still be OU. Why? Because rain is that good.

Not to mention that rain together with water-typing actually holds massive power of pretty every type there is, it destroys those neutral to it. It destroys those weak to it twice, and it may or may not destroy those that resist it. If the only counters to rain are other weathers, water absorb/storm drain, three pokémon and swift swim, then there's a problem. Especially seeing as several pokemon used to counter rain (especially gastrodon) would be sitting in the depths of RU/NU if it weren't for rain, not because it's good in rain, but because it can somewhat counter rain. Somewhat because Keldeo still destroys it, as would Tornadus-T.

I'd also like to point out that even strong Water-Types are being outclassed by Pokémon with Thunder, Hurricane or even other water types just because they function not as good in or against rain.

Edit: Also I like that we have terms like rain-stall, heavy offense sun, etc. running around. But teams without weather, are almost always 'just' called weatherless teams.

Lastly, we can talk about this all we want. We can give calcs, team match-ups, cheese sandwiches, possible out-comes and whatever else you want. But in the end we are discussing our opinions. So good job on that one you guys (including me!)

Disclaimer: I'm not that good at pokémon, am a Gen 4 scrub and use a weather-less team with Porygon2 and Kingdra just because. So take your complaints somewhere else.

 

[Ojama]

Are you kidding? Who's the idiot who sends in their Tyranitar against Politoed when Scald is on over half of them?
Who tries to switch his Tyranitar in when a predicted focus blast from specstoed does 116.06 - 136.78% to your CBTar?
Or when scarf Hydropump deals 52.84 - 62.69%?
Rain teams have an advantage just because rock/sand is weak to water and Tyranitar/Hippowdon fear burns and supereffective STAB water attacks, so you'll be playing for the major part of the match in a weather favorable to your opponent.

Maybe you should learn what "trapping" means my dear Sewa. Do you send in Dugtrio against Heatran when Lava Plume is on 100% of them ? Do you send in Duggy against Tentacruel, Ninetales or even Tyranitar ? Do you send in Gothi against Lando, Keldeo, etc to trap them ?

I didn't write "trap" just because I find this word as beautiful as your stupid avatar, but because there is a reason. Tyranitar comes on Politoed and traps it when it's locked on Ibeam for example and even if toed is locked on Pump / Surf, CBTar doesn't care and kills it. But well, maybe you should gain more experience before making such claims.

Wtf, who runs Focus Blast on Politoed.

 

[Sewa]

It's on main moveset on Specs Politoed's analysis. Also, you can't always count on volt switch/u-turn as a decent player won't switch their Politoed against usual abusers of it. Duggy could trap Heatran because it was the only decent counter to Tornadus-T and then you could u-turn on the switch-in and trap it. Scarf Gothitelle can kill (non-scarf) Keldeo and Lando only after a kill or, again, with the aid of a u-turner.
And they can REALLY trap the opponent's Pokemon. Here you're just playing a guess game with the opponent, as you have to choose between Pursuit or Crunch/Stone Edge. Pseudo means something and if the opponent's pump/surf locked Politoed stays in it goes for the kill if you choose to pursuit. Unless you're a magician and can read in the mind of every opponent, you're not killing their politoed so easily.

Hide

Also, my Avy is awesome.

 

[BKC]

Heatran was not the "only decent counter" to Tornadus-T...

 

[Go10]

It's on main moveset on Specs Politoed's analysis. Also, you can't always count on volt switch/u-turn as a decent player won't switch their Politoed against usual abusers of it. Duggy could trap Heatran because it was the only decent counter to Tornadus-T and then you could u-turn on the switch-in and trap it. Scarf Gothitelle can kill (non-scarf) Keldeo and Lando only after a kill or, again, with the aid of a u-turner.
And they can REALLY trap the opponent's Pokemon. Here you're just playing a guess game with the opponent, as you have to choose between Pursuit or Crunch/Stone Edge. Pseudo means something and if the opponent's pump/surf locked Politoed stays in it goes for the kill if you choose to pursuit. Unless you're a magician and can read in the mind of every opponent, you're not killing their politoed so easily.

That's called Mindgame kid, something almost every BW OUer forgot since this tier is based on the matchup. If you lack the skill to guess what your opponent's going to do, then fine, but dont put the whole community in the same bag. CBTyranitar can trap politoed and kill him with Crunch/Pursuit, it is a fact, and no matter what you say, it's not going to change.
You should learn it, can be useful sometimes.

Have a nice day.

 

[Ojama]

It's on main moveset on Specs Politoed's analysis. Also, you can't always count on volt switch/u-turn as a decent player won't switch their Politoed against usual abusers of it. Duggy could trap Heatran because it was the only decent counter to Tornadus-T and then you could u-turn on the switch-in and trap it. Scarf Gothitelle can kill (non-scarf) Keldeo and Lando only after a kill or, again, with the aid of a u-turner.
And they can REALLY trap the opponent's Pokemon. Here you're just playing a guess game with the opponent, as you have to choose between Pursuit or Crunch/Stone Edge. Pseudo means something and if the opponent's pump/surf locked Politoed stays in it goes for the kill if you choose to pursuit. Unless you're a magician and can read in the mind of every opponent, you're not killing their politoed so easily.

Hide

Also, my Avy is awesome.

Lol no one runs Focus Blast on Politoed dude, running it is like "HEY LETS BE MORE JELLICENT WEAK". My shoes in your face maybe.

The bolded sentence just shows everyone how bad you are. Did you ever hear about Jirachi ? Oh wait dude, you just said "Also, you can't always count on volt switch/u-turn as a decent player won't switch their Politoed against usual abusers of it" so who will send their Heatran on Tornadus-T when he knows the opponent has a Dugtrio ? Dude, you're soooooo funny.

What the fuck are you talking about with "the aid of a uturner". So Goth can't work without being paired with a U-Turn user ? Hey dude, what will be the next sentence ? Pikachu can beat Dialga ? Seriously, just so you know trapping is almost the same as revenge killing. I'm absolutely not playing a guess game dude. You should learn how to play a Sand Team before saying this dude. You weaken Politoed before killing it with Pursuit and even if its full health, CBTar can either OHKO it with Stone Edge (if he switches, someone will die, or almost) or make some damage with Pursuit.

Also yah, I probably overrated you, you need some skill to play Tyranitar ;) Or maybe you just need the power of the force

EDIT by Haunter: I rate this post 10\10

 

[Deglas]

You know what else? Many of the UU and below Pokemon viable in BW OU are viable because of DW Abilities and crazy new moves, outclassed, weather abusers, counter rain, or are good but nerfed by rain. In other words, all the new Abilities and moves are mainly responsible for viability.

Now, we look at BW UU (and lower) Pokes in OU:

Legitimate Threats:
Amoongus Did you see any before Regenerator was released?
Bronzong
Ditto Would you use this without Imposter?
Kingdra Mainly a rain counter.
Mew
Roserade
Sableye Would this be used without Prankster?
Slowbro Once again, Slowbro's main selling point is Regenerator.
Stoutland Without Sand Rush, this would never see the light of day.
Victini V-Create and Bolt Strike are the main reason this is viable.
Xatu Magic Bounce is this thing's reason for being.

Has a niche:
Aerodactyl Could outspeed and KO Torn-T.
Abomasnow
Azelf
Azumarril
Darmanitan Sheer Force Flare Blitz +140 Base Attack. Still not OU because of rain
Heracross
Hitmontop
Porygon2
Quagsire Unaware is this Pokemons claim to viability
Sandslash Sand Rush + Rapid Spin
Snorlax
Virizion
Weavile
Zapdos

Sort-of-could-do-something-in-OU:
Chandelure With 145 SpAtk, its still all the way down here.
Cobalion
Cofagrigus
Froslass Almost always worse than Deoxys-D
Gorebyss Only because of SmashPass
Lanturn
Lilligant
Machamp (Completely Outclassed) So why use it?
Mienshao
Raikou
Rotom-H The awesome typing
Scrafty
Sharpedo Speed Boost and rain-boosted STAB
Swampert Why not Gastrodon?
Tornadus Hurricane is why this is used.
Victreebel (Mostly Outclassed by Venusaur) So why use it?
Zoroark

 

[Hugin]

Lol no one runs Focus Blast on Politoed dude, running it is like "HEY LETS BE MORE JELLICENT WEAK". My shoes in your face maybe.

| Focus Blast 31.251% |
That's not even mentioning the chance of a Scald-Burn, or, heck, catching a Hypnosis on the switch. Actually, looking at it, Toed's HPump is an easy 2hko with no item, neutral nature, in the sand. So if you screw up once in that prediction you lose the weather war. That's a pretty risky counter.


Also, this goes back to a lot of people's original point, the best way to deal with weather teams is to run your own weather. That renders the vast majority of playstyles unworkable unless you are very, very good.

 

[PK Gaming]

Let's talk about the standard Sand Team because I find this a bit stupid to say that Drizzle is broken and nothing can stop it while a good Sand Team cannot lose to a Rain Team whether it is a Rain Offense or a Rain Stall. Rotom-W, Celebi, Jellicent, Keldeo (yes Keldeo works very well in Sand and is amazing to destroy the opponent's rain team), Starmie, Lati@s, Breloom, Gastrodon, etc... all these guys are so painful for a Rain. Actually, only Tornadus-I could be annoying, but you guys forget Tyranitar and its ability to trap Tornadus and resist Hurricane easily.

You mean the same Tornadus-I that has Superpower / Focus Blast?

 

[Ojama]

You mean the same Tornadus-I that has Superpower / Focus Blast?

Didn't know that Tornadus-I was faster than ScarfTar, sorry. SpecsTorna-I locked on Hurricane, did you ever hear about this ?

 

[alexwolf]

Ojama outlined everything I've been saying and I agree, but his reasons are part of why I want Drizzle banned -- it isn't that "broken" anymore [not after we nerfed its ass off, anyway], but if you use it, you're literally relying on matchup to get your wins/losses. Since Smogon strives to make the most competitive metagame possible, which means one where player skill should have the final say in the winner of a match, we should get rid of Drizzle, because games with it are decided on anything but skill.

There's also the fact that it makes several mons unviable; who remembers Conkeldurr?

BKC if rain and sun teams are too much-up reliant for you to the point where you believe that they undermine the skill involved in the battle, use something else. Sand Offense, Sand Balance, Weatherless Balance and Weatherless Offense are all good and viable playstyles that don't rely a lot on match up. I know that you will mention sun offense teams, but let me tell you that they are not an obstacle that weatherless team cannot overcome with careful team building. It is your choice to stay away from match-up reliant teams, so instead of wanting to ban the team types that are match-up reliant, just use something that is more to your liking. The choices are there, but some people refuse to see them.

For example, Rain Dance Kingdra is an excellent offensive Pokemon for weatherless offensive teams, and helps a ton against Rain and Sun teams. Why people are not using it then? I don't have a clue. The biggest reason i can see is that people are very fucking unoriginal and bored of trying anything new, and use the same stuff over and over, and then make posts blaming Drizzle for the staleness of the meta, while also dismissing anything that doesn't have a lot of usage, as if usage shows what is good and what not. Usage has the smallest connection to viability now than ever before, because the meta is full of bad players, and players with a bad mindset.

 

[PK Gaming]

Didn't know that Tornadus-I was faster than ScarfTar, sorry. SpecsTorna-I locked on Hurricane, did you ever hear about this ?

Cut that out. You know that Choice Scarf Tyranitar is hardly common (and Scarftar itself has like a what, 50% chance of beating a healthy LO Tornadus) and not everyone runs a Choice Specs.

I was trying to point out that Tyranitar isn't an end all be all answer to Tornadus-I like you make it out to be.

 

[Deluks917]

I honestly think sun venusaur is more of a problem for weatherless than Rain. There are tons of great pokemon who resist water so its pretty easy to stock up on resistances. However it is pretty hard to take a hit from growth venusaur.

 

[Ojama]

Didn't say Tar was an answer or even a Tornadus counter, I just said it was able to take Hurricane quite easily and can additionally trap it. ScarfTar is quite common lol what are you talking about. Also, if Torna is running LO, I hardly doubt it would stay alive during a lot of turns due to SR + LO damage + Sand damage + the fact that ScarfTar is faster and can kill it with Pursuit / make it switch out (so it will take 25% on rocks (if they're up) again). Also, sending in Tar on Hurricane to activate Sandstream and then pivoting is a common move from players, I do agree it's risky and requires skill but it's a way to beat Tornadus. I was just pointing out that Tar is a safe switch to Hurricane, not that it is a counter.

 

[BKC]

alexwolf, I almost never use sun or rain, I stick to sand because it's the least vulnerable to matchup -- but whenever I face sun and rain, it is STILL a matchup game because THEY brought it. Me not using it will not help the majority of the time.

The other big thing is that it isn't just about me, it's about HAVING A METAGAME WHERE SKILL HAS THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE IN THE DECISION OF A MATCH. I don't normally use caps like that but I feel like you won't get the point otherwise. Sun and rain DO cause match-up, and not using them is NOT a solution to prevent horribly extreme team match-up. We shouldn't have a metagame where games decided by skill are OPTIONAL.

edit: awesome glad we're on the same page!

 

[alexwolf]

Ah ok BKC i get what you mean, sorry for not getting it earlier. Tbh your reasoning is the most solid argument as to why Drizzle (and Sun possibly) should be banned, and the only one that is worth considering. So if someone believes that weather teams make games too much-up reliant and undermine the importance of skill, then banning Drizzle is a logical and justified decision to make.

 

[yee]

Idk if anyone else thinks that though- has anyone really laid out an explanation as to how Rain / Sun / Deo-D directly lower the skill factor in deciding games?

 

[Zephir]

I honestly think sun venusaur is more of a problem for weatherless than Rain. There are tons of great pokemon who resist water so its pretty easy to stock up on resistances. However it is pretty hard to take a hit from growth venusaur.

This, and I'd say that Volcarona is even worse so you better keep the rocks on the field. Bkc wrote that Rain is heavily matchup reliant and to me sun is even more as it's basically a make it or break it situation since the team matchup. At best it involves mind games concerning trapping and weather war, but I don't think Venusaur under sun, physical fire spam or even set up QD with Volc demands much skill. Plus sun teams are the epitome of cookie cutter teams, and some games are really awful as they're over when the weather inducer dies (especially sand and rain stalls against a dugtrio/gothi). Rain centralizes the metagame but sand can clearly beat it and weatherless offense / balanced can as well, though it's not very viable atm as you have to fare well against all weathers and Deo D HO. As a consequence, most good players who don't like rain stick with similar sand balanced / sand stall teams. I'm not certain because BW2 meta is pretty new for me but maybe a chlorophyll ban could be a good move towards a healthier meta, more skill reliant than matchup reliant - even if it's unlikely to happen because smogon only ban broken things.

 

[alexwolf]

Another thing that i wanted to mention and forgot to, is that people should not blame only weather for match-up reliant games. The longer the pool of available Pokemon in OU becomes, the more the game will become match-up based, as the sheer amount of threats to cover when teambuilding makes prepering for everything impossible.

 

[BKC]

Of course match-up exists outside of sun & rain, I've not denied that. However, it's not to the extent where games are immediately won or lost because of it.

 

[MMII]

I'm more than willing to accept this argument about Rain/Sun being completely match-up based however I (and many others) have never really played high level OU matches. I have seen some of the various skewed match-ups in BKC's(?) posts a few times before but I would definitely appreciate if the details of these match-ups could be given so that the rest of use can understand why this is. (and determine ourselves if it is true or not)

 

[mewtwo15026]

While I never thought about the "matchup-based" characteristic of OU, I HAVE noticed my team getting steamrolled by that ONE Pokemon all too often. (Hence, I spend most of my time in the lower tiers.) Drizzle and Drought lend themselves to a speed- and power-based metagame. As much as I like speed and power, they shouldn't be the only factors in a team's viability, but stall's disappearance suggests that they are.

I'd really like DrizzleToed and DroughTales to be moved to their own tier, along with the combination of Sand Rush and Sand Stream (don't ban it outright because it doesn't make any type grossly overpowered). This way, both weather lovers and weather haters are happy.

 

[Deglas]

I agree wholeheartedly with BKC. Whenever I try to build a weatherless team, I always find that at least one common playstyle crushes me effortlessly. It is simply very hard to cope with Rain, Sun, Sand, and Deo-D HO simultaneously without weather. With weather, however, I get at least a shaky check to other weather teams with my inducer, and more powerful sweepers to use against Deo-D HO.

 

[Pocket]

BKC, your entire premise behind "Diversity vs Skill" is flawed. As people have realized at the end of your thread, diversity and skill are not mutually exclusive; we don't need to choose one when we can have both!

Team match-up issues may have worsened in BW, but Rain isn't the cause of that - it's the drastic influx of new powerful threats that have made it impossible to cover everything in 6 slots. Unless you want to ban half of OU and cut down on the offensive threats, team match-up would exist. And this "issue" will only worsen as Pokemon advance in each new generation, bringing another 100+ new Pokemon with which we have to take into account. We can be lazy and ban them all to minimize the threatlist, or we can learn to adapt to the new threats and create teams that wont auto-lose to the most pertinent ones (unless they are truly OP)...

Despite the "worsening of team match up," the demand for skill is there - in teambuilding and in battling. You need up-to-date metagame knowledge to build teams that fare well with the most pertinent threats (ie Rain, Sun, Dragons, Terrakion, Landorus, Ferrothorn, etc), which will help you have a greater edge than the opponent. Next, in battle, you must outplay your opponent to win any given game - unless you totally fucked up your teambuilding, where you don't account for major threats like Volcarona, you wont auto-lose to a Sun team with Volcarona.

Bottom Line: The "issue" of team match-up would only worsen with every generation, and you should accept this rather than micro-manage everything and end up banning half the tier to lower the power level of the metagame.

We should ban things to achieve a balanced and diverse metagame and to remove OP mons that apply an excessively restrictive stranglehold on the metagame, NOT to "ease team match-up" that will always exist in Pokemon anyway (unless you want everybody to use the same team so they're in "equal footing" - I'm not here to play chess -.-;;).

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

BKC, your entire premise behind "Diversity vs Skill" is flawed. As people have realized at the end of your thread, diversity and skill are not mutually exclusive; we don't need to choose one when we can have both!

Team match-up issues may have worsened in BW, but Rain isn't the cause of that - it's the drastic influx of new powerful threats that have made it impossible to cover everything in 6 slots. Unless you want to ban half of OU and cut down on the offensive threats, team match-up would exist. And this "issue" will only worsen as Pokemon advance in each new generation, bringing another 100+ new Pokemon with which we have to take into account. We can be lazy and ban them all to minimize the threatlist, or we can learn to adapt to the new threats and create teams that wont auto-lose to the most pertinent ones (unless they are truly OP)...

Despite the "worsening of team match up," the demand for skill is there - in teambuilding and in battling. You need up-to-date metagame knowledge to build teams that fare well with the most pertinent threats (ie Rain, Sun, Dragons, Terrakion, Landorus, Ferrothorn, etc), which will help you have a greater edge than the opponent. Next, in battle, you must outplay your opponent to win any given game - unless you totally fucked up your teambuilding, where you don't account for major threats like Volcarona, you wont auto-lose to a Sun team with Volcarona.

Bottom Line: The "issue" of team match-up would only worsen with every generation, and you should accept this rather than micro-manage everything and end up banning half the tier to lower the power level of the metagame.

We should ban things to achieve a balanced and diverse metagame and to remove OP mons that apply an excessively restrictive stranglehold on the metagame, NOT to "ease team match-up" that will always exist in Pokemon anyway.

So you are saying we shouldn't even attempt to ease team matchup, because "it will always exist"? I don't understand. Having a metagame that is more matchup-reliant than skill-reliant is not good, I don't see how that can be argued. I'm not saying it needs to be like chess, but there is no reason for us not to try to make the metagame more skill-reliant.

Also, yes, you can have both skill and diversity.... To an extent. The game can be so skill-reliant that diversity is limited and the metagame feels repetitive, or it can be so matchup-reliant that skill won't mean anything anymore and strategy will be irrelevant. In my mind, the latter is equally as dull as the former. There is an ideal balance of skill and matchup, and I personally believe we should aim to shift the balance more towards the "skill" side. Also, I hate to break it to you but there is no such thing as a "perfect team". Of course you have to use teambuilding skills in this regard, but no matter how well you build your team, it is physically impossible to build a matchup-proof team, especially not in this metagame. In the case of matchup, the player with the team losing the matchup will always be at a disadvantage against the team that wins the matchup, regardless of how skilled/unskilled either player on either side is.

So how do we fix it? Well, I'd argue that weather at least plays a minor part in it, but the problem is, nobody has really played a weather-free BW OU metagame (there was Clear Skies but the player base was way too small). I'm starting to think we should stop throwing around all these theories that have no actual evidence to back them up and actually test to see if eliminating weather will at least be a good first step.