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Pokémon Avalugg

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by alexwolf, Oct 14, 2013.

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  1. LavaPlume

    LavaPlume

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    I run iron defense rather than curse on my avalugg. I find the +2 def. competes far better when put up against swords dance users, and double power up punch kang. and any heavy hitter (aegislash is a huge proble, :P but i simply go for the switch out for that foo. big pain seriously) anyways avalugg can wall mostly anything pretty well.
    question is though, iron defense or curse? Keep in mind i'm strictly talking about the non-special attack aspects of the situation
  2. MagicMissingno

    MagicMissingno

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    Maybe Lug can run this?

    Avalugg @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Ice Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk/ 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Hail
    - Recover
    - Earthquake/Stone Edge
    - Avalanche

    Hail and Ice Body would substitute the loss of leftovers. I honestly don't know if it's dumb or another Mega-Kang check that would work.
  3. Lugi

    Lugi

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    Why is ice body getting so much consideration? If you desperately need to get off a rapid spin then sturdy is your choice. My set is:

    Avalugg @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Recover

    he can end boosted sweeps by tanking the hit with sturdy and roaring he can rapid spin and recover. Tentacruel makes a great partner being able to switch in to the multitude of fire and fighting type moves this guy needs to tank as well as being specially defensive. Avalugg's earthquake is just for the super effective hit on heatrans.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  4. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    I think the problem with Sturdy is that you will rarely use Avalugg as a revenge killer and since he will be switching in often enough, you are not very interested in keeping that last 1 Hp on Lugg because he is slow. The opportunity of having all your Hp is going to be rather rare (other than you stabilizing is Recover, but at that point you're not stopping boosted attacks). In the other hand, provided you can set up Hail witout hindering yourself, the extra Healing will help you staying in the game without spending as much time Recovering.
    Admittedly both abilities can be superior to the other, but the passive recovery is good because of Avalugg's bulk, while Sturdy is mediocre because of that same bulk and the poor speed this guy carries.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    None of those. Avalugg can't sweep with Curse, as it is too slow and can be OHKOed by a ton of special attacks. Similarly, boosting with Iron Defense to check physical set up sweepers is pointless when you can just Roar them out.
  6. shack

    shack

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    Avalanche over EQ. EQ is nice to have, but im sure theres another poke on ur team that can use it. Also Avalanche tends to kill a lot of the speedy physical attackers such as Garchomp and the birds
  7. Garchompi

    Garchompi Banned deucer.

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    Avalanche over Rapid Spin I'd say. Avalugg could work as a spinner, but in a tier where Mega Gengar, Jellicent and Aegislash exist. In OU it should be used as a phazer to use against physical sweepers since it has the bulk to take even +2 SE physical attacks as long as they're not something ridiculous like M-Lucario's Close Combat. Besides Ice+Ground is an excellent offensive combo and would be a shame not to use it.

    Avalugg greatly benefits from Rapid Spin/Defog itself when provided by team mates since it lets it abuse Sturdy and beat things it would normally not be able to.
  8. tikidude

    tikidude

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    Gonna have to disagree with you there man. I've been using Avalugg on all my teams so far in g6. Curse is a great move on him. Once your opponent's special attackers are gone (not that hard to accomplish), Curse Avalugg takes a dump all over their team. I don't particularly like Roar because once they've been switched out, they can just come back out later to set up on your other Pokemon. Also, you might end up roaring them into a special attacker which forces you to choose between sacrificing Avalugg, or switching out, potentially taking a powerful attack and losing momentum/getting set up on. Sending Avalugg out on a non-boosting sweeper and getting a Curse or two up isn't that difficult, and it basically guarantees victory as long as the rest of their team is physical. And while Avalugg has good attack, he just doesn't do quite enough damage without boosts due to his low speed. Avalugg can sweep under the right conditions. Now when it comes to Iron Defense, I can't say much because I have not tried it. However, it seems to be in a similar vein as Curse. He won't be doing as much damage without the attack boosts, but the extra defense boosts means that he has to use Recover less often, giving him more turns to attack. The only real problem with having Avalugg sweep besides the aformentioned special attacks are status ailments, and it's really obvious when your opponent is going to attempt a Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, etc.
  9. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

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    Why are you running Sturdy on your Spinner.

    It defeats the whole point of Sturdy.

    It's still nice in certain situations but it won't guarantee you a Spin. And you're not staying in on anything that can OHKO you anyways. I've seen more Own Tempo ones than Sturdy, probably because of Klefki lol.
    Shiruba likes this.
  10. MagicMissingno

    MagicMissingno

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    Yeah, that confused me too. Ice Body might also be nice for extra recovery but it also might be a bad idea.
  11. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Getting rid of all the Pokemon that can threaten Avalugg with special attacks is almost impossible. Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Shadow Ball Aegislash, Gengar, Fire Blast Tyranitar, Goodra, Alakazam, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur, Togekiss, and Starmie are all over the place, and telling that Avalugg can sweep once those are gone holds as much value as saying that mediocre and outclassed Pokemon in OU, such as Rock Polish Aggron, can sweep after all faster Pokemon and physical walls / checks are gone. Not to mention that Curse Avalugg is stopped cold by some of the best physical walls in OU, Skarmory and Hippowdon, which wall Avalugg and phaze him out, making sure that it has to switch in again and find chances to set up, which is easier said than done when you have that horrible Speed stat, Ice typing, and SR weakness. So you are sacrificing the utility of Rapid Spin and Roar for what? A sweep that is never going to happen against players that know what they do and don't sacrifice everything on their team able to deal with Avalugg, which as i said again, is a ton of Pokemon? You say that Avalugg can sweep under the right conditions, but this is true for a ton of bad and unvaible sets and Pokemon in OU. The matter is, how much support is needed to reach the point where the sweeper can sweep? In this case, too much to be worth it is the answer.

    tl;dr Curse Avalugg has too many checks and counters to be viable, use it to its strengths, which are huge physical bulk, Rapid Spin, and Recover.
  12. flamewizzy21

    flamewizzy21

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    Are we looking at the same base stats? On Serebii's base stats,
    Bergmite -> Avalugg -> Bergmite@Eviolite (after defense boost)
    HP 55 -> 95 -> (55)
    ATK 69 -> 117 -> (117)
    DEF 85 -> 184 -> (127)
    SDEF 35 -> 46 -> (52)
    SPE 28 -> 28 -> (28)

    Of course I'm not taking into account the effect of eviolite on EV's, IV's, and individual values, but I don't see where Bergmite outclasses Avalugg. Is there something that's obvious to everyone else? I don't see it.
  13. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

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    Bergmite is a joke. It has less HP, less Defense, no offensive presence whatsoever, the same speed but who cares, and no Leftovers. Stats for 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Relaxed are:

    Bergmite:
    HP: 314
    Atk: 170
    Def: 442
    SpA: who cares
    SpD: 151
    Spe: low

    Avalugg:
    HP: 394
    Atk: 266
    Def: 513
    SpA: who cares
    SpD: 123
    Spe: low

    So...Eviolite Bergmite has one stat higher than Avalugg with the same investment. And Avalugg has Leftovers.

    Stop talking about Bergmite.
    The Jakester and G-Von like this.
  14. AvaluggTheBrave

    AvaluggTheBrave

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    Avalugg is my new favorite Pokemon. I envision him on a Triple Battle Team including the following Pokemon: Togekiss, Mega Gengar, Smeargle, Abomasnow, Blaziken, and Avalugg. I don't know if any of the following movesets are banned, I'm new to competitive.

    Togekiss - Follow Me, Extrasensory, Air Slash, Substitute
    Mega Gengar - Hypnosis, Mean Look, Shadow Ball, Dazzling Gleam
    Smeargle - Dark Void, Amnesia, Stealth Rocks, Baton Pass
    Abomasnow - Ice Shard, Leech Seed, Grasswhistle, Wood Hammer
    Blaziken - Bulk Up, Baton Pass, Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick
    Avalugg - Avalanche, Recover, Earthquake, Mirror Coat

    The first three Pokemon sent out from left to right would be Togekiss, Mega Gengar, and Smeargle. The point would be to trap all three pokemon with Shadow Tag, use Follow Me to divert attacks from the left and middle while a Focus Sash Smeargle can use Dark Void. Gengar could use hypnosis on the third Pokemon (on the left). From there, Smeargle would use Amnesia to set up to pass to Blaziken to use Bulk Up. The point would be to set up as much physical bulk and attack to send to Avalugg. Abomasnow would only be used to set up Snow Warning. This team mainly depends on the Sleep condition. Taunt would really mess things up too. I'm going to use this team my next time through the game because I love Avalugg! Avalugg the BRAVE! There can only be one Iceberger!

    I also thought about, for lols, using a Smeargle with - Dark Void, Quiver Dance, Geomancy, Baton Pass and giving Avalugg Frost Breathe for critical hits. Geomancy and Quiver Dance would, if I am correct, max out Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed in 4 turns. It was just something fun to think of, but not very practical.

    Feedback would be nice. I love Avalugg!
  15. The Jakester

    The Jakester

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    To bad Blaziken got banned to ubers it would of given this guy a nice niche and a firm spot in OU as he is a pretty hard counter to blaze even though he is weak to both blazes main stabs he can tank both of them and in almost all circumstances he'll beat blaze out with a return EQ (Assuming you haven't let him set up yet)Also Abomosnow gives it a good set up for IceOver combo. Rocky helmet guarantees the ohko from EQ

    252+ Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -2 to 3hko with leftovers/ 3hko with Iceover combo
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 265-315 (67.2 - 79.9%) -2hko but life orb recoil kills him on second turn
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Sun: 369-437 (93.6 - 110.9%) -1 to 2hko

    With a boost from curse he becomes an ungodly wall
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 174-211 (44.1 - 53.5%)
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Sun: 244-291 (61.9 - 73.8%)
    And my Favorite
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 351-416 (89 - 105.5%)





  16. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

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    Because you can obviously use Rocky Helmet and Leftovers on the same set?

    Also Stealth Rock exists. And the only way Avalugg can ever beat Blaziken is if Hi Jump Kick misses.

    It's really nice for Avalugg that Blaziken and Mega Gengar got the boot. It still has a lot of problems but it's easier to play around them now.
  17. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    Seems like there really is no reason to be running Sturdy, since according to the calcs you guys posted not much can 1HKO him. And if he does survive the 1HKO he will never, in any set, leave a signiicant dent in the opposing pokemon to be worth investing in Sturdy.
  18. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    According to the november usage stats, almost all avalugg users are maximizing the physical defense of their avaluggs. I dont see why. Like blissey maximizing the weak point offers a far better return as the strng point is so naturally high, especially so in avalugg's case that the diminishing return of investing in defense is dumb. Avalugg's fully invested special defense isnt THAT bad.

    252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Avalugg: 147-174 (37.3 - 44.1%)
    252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 241-285 (61.1 - 72.3%)

    vs.

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Avalugg: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%)
    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 76-90 (19.2 - 22.8%)

    A maximum special defense spread lets you take special hits pretty decently, making avalugg far less exploitable. Yeah, you won't live strong specs attacks, but the return that max def investment provides is really low. I also fail to see why you wouldnt run sturdy. Sturdy is useless most of the time but, I fail to see how either alternatives are better. YOu'll get nearly zero use out of ice body without abomasnow on your team, and own tempo would only be helpful for fighting the swgger variant of klefki. With sturdy you could revenge something in a very tight pinch, if no hazards are on the field. Further still if there are, and you recover on a switch into something that ohkos avalugg, but is weak to one of his attacks you could threaten it with sturdy. Further still if sticky web were the only hazards on the field and you absolutely needed it eliminated sturdy, again, could be helpful.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  19. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    I think the reason most are Impish max Defense is because, even with Avalugg's unreal physical bulk, it still takes a ton of investment to take strong physical hits when you're losing 25% of your health every time you switch in thanks to Stealth Rocks. However, that Gengar calc you provided is very interesting, so maybe there is some merit to max Special Defense.
  20. dw0914

    dw0914

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    Actually, I think the reason is that Avalugg has no business going in against special attackers anyway, so you might as well EV him to fully counter the physical threats that you want him to counter, and switch him out whenever a special threat comes in.

    Similarly I think the backlash against Sturdy is because you expect him to have some chip damage from hazards if you're using him as your spinner. Own Tempo is likely because people are tired of Klefki, which Avalugg can help bring down with Earthquake.
  21. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    Avalugg has no business duking it out with special attackers, but it's a very exploitable and inflexible pokemon if it's that weak on the specially defensive side. With specially defensive EVs you can punish opponents that think the lugg is nothing but fish food for any special attack. Gengar's shadow ball not even 2HKOing is pretty respectable, yeah it's not boosted with any item, and it is only 80 BP but that's still a STAB move coming off base 130 spa.
  22. shack

    shack

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    In case you get hit by an unexpected Fireblast or special move on a physical sweeper
  23. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    Yes, but what I'm saying is that even if he does survive could he even OHKO the opposing pokemon?
  24. shack

    shack

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    Depends on what it is. I usually bring in Avalugg on Garchomps, tank a hit and OHKO back with Avalanche. I dunno if his Fire Blast would OHKO at full health. Also the other options for abilities don't really have much use, so at least right now it seems like its better to protect yourself from an unexpected special attack or even if your team is low and you need to sacrifice something to weaken the enemies attacker.

    There's Dragonite too
  25. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    I thought maybe leading with Snover (holding focus sash or hail stone) to set up hail then maybe leech seed, and then switching into Avalugg. He could set up and sweep, andget crazy wild recovery.
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