1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Please refer to this thread for the current Smogon Tier Lists.
  3. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Pokémon Avalugg

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by alexwolf, Oct 14, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Neo0MJ

    Neo0MJ

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    It can still be useful, depending on how popular Swagkey becomes. I don't expect it to become popular, as that set relies too much on luck, but you never know how the game will develop.
  2. Spife

    Spife

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    I want to preface this post by saying a few things: this is my first gen in competitive pokemon, as well as my first post (and I only got to page 4 on this thread ^^')

    All that in mind, this is what I'm toying with:
    Avalugg @ Leftovers
    Ability: Ice Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Hail
    - Toxic

    It's hard to set up (which means it's bad) but once I got it set up there was no breaking it (sans stupid decisions, like leaving it in vs something with a special attack).
    Any feed back? I think dropping hail for avalanche would be better but I don't have another way to use ice body (on my team, anyway). I probably wouldn't run it game 1 if I were super-serious, or if I didn't have their ENTIRE team scouted some how, cause I'm sure any mixed attacker would destroy it (some one mentioned fire blast garchomp), but I'm telling ya, it's a cute rig.
    Edit: I'm sure there are pokemon that do what ever it is this is doing (physical stall+spin?) better.
  3. TheReflexWonder

    TheReflexWonder

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    Hail isn't worth its moveslot, I feel. Spending a turn to heal a bit when you already have Recover, and its Attack stat is certainly high enough to want to run a coverage move to deal with Toxic-immune, such as Earthquake. You're going to be forced out by special attacks often in most situations, and so Hail will often go to waste. May as well have something that can keep you threatening against a wider variety of opponents, especially if it accomplishes more for you in the meantime.
  4. Spife

    Spife

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    And I totally agree with you. I wish there was an easier way to use Ice Body because I think sturdy is the wrong way to go. If sturdy saves me then I made a mistake I shouldn't be making, or I was forced into a bad play and shouldn't be using this pokemon in the first place but I guess in terms of survivability it's better than ice body haha.
    I'm going to keep tinkering with it though, thanks for the feedback Reflex!
  5. Microsoft Samuel

    Microsoft Samuel

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Forgive me if I do something wrong or say something stupid for this is my first post on smogon and I'm a competitive amateur. Anyways I use Avalugg with avalanche, recover, curse and earthquake. I also have sturdy on it as well as a weakness policy to help avalanche since its so slow and it's ice type. I have impish nature and (sorry I might have forgot the EVs) I believe I have max defense and ATK, but it could have also been max HP and DEF. Which ever works better. Sorry for being such a amateur at posting. T-T
  6. TheReflexWonder

    TheReflexWonder

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    Don't worry about qualifying your posts with apologies; I promise we'll all live whether or not your post is fantastic or cringe-worthy. :p

    I think that this Avalugg set is more like a (rather far-reaching, specific) win condition, in that he's either incredibly good at dealing with what's out or he's death fodder. I think that set's as good as it gets in terms of Cursing for a late-game sweep if you can clear the table of special-based 'Mons, as Ice/Ground coverage is pretty sweet.

    That said, if you're in a position where you're able to stack multiple Curses, your Attack will be patched up, so unless a +1 Avalanche/Earthquake will KO specific, important things, you may as well invest elsewhere. While the returns for investing in Defense could seem weak, it could at least help you power through some non-STAB super-effective stuff to get Curse going at first.

    I, personally, am interested in what utility this thing could have on a hazards-heavy stall team. Roar for disruption could snowball if what is coming in can't dent you. STAB Avalanche hits some of the new Defoggers reasonably hard, even if it's just Base 60 (obviously in terms of the lower tiers here). Gyro Ball may also be a decent option, given that this thing is slow as dirt. I could see Mirror Coat getting its time in the sun with Max HP/Max SpDef, too, as Roar also discourages opponents' setup. Nothing all that game-changing, but I'm liking the potential niche this fellow might carve out for himself.
  7. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,485
    252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 268-316 (68.02 - 80.2%)
    0- SpA Mega Charizard X Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 270-318 (68.52 - 80.71%)

    This kind of sums Avalugg up.
    Shiruba, Magcargo 2, sims796 and 10 others like this.
  8. Plasma.EXE

    Plasma.EXE

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    164
    Guess I better make one that's Impish. I'm a little worried he won't be doing enough damage without an adamant nature or attack investment though which is currently what I'm using (especially against those that can sword dance). I had the same dillema with Mega Aggron, but Avalugg has recover which I guess makes the defense nature more useful. Another thing to worry about beside special attacks is toxic and burn, which both makes him a sitting duck that can just stall for time. Might try him out as a phazer/spinner with recover after setting up hazards.

    Edit: for some reason thought his attack was base 95. I guess 117 is pretty good without investment.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  9. LavaPlume

    LavaPlume

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    I run iron defense rather than curse on my avalugg. I find the +2 def. competes far better when put up against swords dance users, and double power up punch kang. and any heavy hitter (aegislash is a huge proble, :P but i simply go for the switch out for that foo. big pain seriously) anyways avalugg can wall mostly anything pretty well.
    question is though, iron defense or curse? Keep in mind i'm strictly talking about the non-special attack aspects of the situation
  10. MagicMissingno

    MagicMissingno

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    277
    Maybe Lug can run this?

    Avalugg @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Ice Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk/ 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Hail
    - Recover
    - Earthquake/Stone Edge
    - Avalanche

    Hail and Ice Body would substitute the loss of leftovers. I honestly don't know if it's dumb or another Mega-Kang check that would work.
  11. Lugi

    Lugi

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    297
    Why is ice body getting so much consideration? If you desperately need to get off a rapid spin then sturdy is your choice. My set is:

    Avalugg @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Recover

    he can end boosted sweeps by tanking the hit with sturdy and roaring he can rapid spin and recover. Tentacruel makes a great partner being able to switch in to the multitude of fire and fighting type moves this guy needs to tank as well as being specially defensive. Avalugg's earthquake is just for the super effective hit on heatrans.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  12. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    319
    I think the problem with Sturdy is that you will rarely use Avalugg as a revenge killer and since he will be switching in often enough, you are not very interested in keeping that last 1 Hp on Lugg because he is slow. The opportunity of having all your Hp is going to be rather rare (other than you stabilizing is Recover, but at that point you're not stopping boosted attacks). In the other hand, provided you can set up Hail witout hindering yourself, the extra Healing will help you staying in the game without spending as much time Recovering.
    Admittedly both abilities can be superior to the other, but the passive recovery is good because of Avalugg's bulk, while Sturdy is mediocre because of that same bulk and the poor speed this guy carries.
  13. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,345
    None of those. Avalugg can't sweep with Curse, as it is too slow and can be OHKOed by a ton of special attacks. Similarly, boosting with Iron Defense to check physical set up sweepers is pointless when you can just Roar them out.
  14. shack

    shack

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    129
    Avalanche over EQ. EQ is nice to have, but im sure theres another poke on ur team that can use it. Also Avalanche tends to kill a lot of the speedy physical attackers such as Garchomp and the birds
  15. Garchompi

    Garchompi Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    125
    Avalanche over Rapid Spin I'd say. Avalugg could work as a spinner, but in a tier where Mega Gengar, Jellicent and Aegislash exist. In OU it should be used as a phazer to use against physical sweepers since it has the bulk to take even +2 SE physical attacks as long as they're not something ridiculous like M-Lucario's Close Combat. Besides Ice+Ground is an excellent offensive combo and would be a shame not to use it.

    Avalugg greatly benefits from Rapid Spin/Defog itself when provided by team mates since it lets it abuse Sturdy and beat things it would normally not be able to.
  16. tikidude

    tikidude

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    321
    Gonna have to disagree with you there man. I've been using Avalugg on all my teams so far in g6. Curse is a great move on him. Once your opponent's special attackers are gone (not that hard to accomplish), Curse Avalugg takes a dump all over their team. I don't particularly like Roar because once they've been switched out, they can just come back out later to set up on your other Pokemon. Also, you might end up roaring them into a special attacker which forces you to choose between sacrificing Avalugg, or switching out, potentially taking a powerful attack and losing momentum/getting set up on. Sending Avalugg out on a non-boosting sweeper and getting a Curse or two up isn't that difficult, and it basically guarantees victory as long as the rest of their team is physical. And while Avalugg has good attack, he just doesn't do quite enough damage without boosts due to his low speed. Avalugg can sweep under the right conditions. Now when it comes to Iron Defense, I can't say much because I have not tried it. However, it seems to be in a similar vein as Curse. He won't be doing as much damage without the attack boosts, but the extra defense boosts means that he has to use Recover less often, giving him more turns to attack. The only real problem with having Avalugg sweep besides the aformentioned special attacks are status ailments, and it's really obvious when your opponent is going to attempt a Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, etc.
  17. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Why are you running Sturdy on your Spinner.

    It defeats the whole point of Sturdy.

    It's still nice in certain situations but it won't guarantee you a Spin. And you're not staying in on anything that can OHKO you anyways. I've seen more Own Tempo ones than Sturdy, probably because of Klefki lol.
    Shiruba likes this.
  18. MagicMissingno

    MagicMissingno

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    277
    Yeah, that confused me too. Ice Body might also be nice for extra recovery but it also might be a bad idea.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,345
    Getting rid of all the Pokemon that can threaten Avalugg with special attacks is almost impossible. Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Shadow Ball Aegislash, Gengar, Fire Blast Tyranitar, Goodra, Alakazam, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur, Togekiss, and Starmie are all over the place, and telling that Avalugg can sweep once those are gone holds as much value as saying that mediocre and outclassed Pokemon in OU, such as Rock Polish Aggron, can sweep after all faster Pokemon and physical walls / checks are gone. Not to mention that Curse Avalugg is stopped cold by some of the best physical walls in OU, Skarmory and Hippowdon, which wall Avalugg and phaze him out, making sure that it has to switch in again and find chances to set up, which is easier said than done when you have that horrible Speed stat, Ice typing, and SR weakness. So you are sacrificing the utility of Rapid Spin and Roar for what? A sweep that is never going to happen against players that know what they do and don't sacrifice everything on their team able to deal with Avalugg, which as i said again, is a ton of Pokemon? You say that Avalugg can sweep under the right conditions, but this is true for a ton of bad and unvaible sets and Pokemon in OU. The matter is, how much support is needed to reach the point where the sweeper can sweep? In this case, too much to be worth it is the answer.

    tl;dr Curse Avalugg has too many checks and counters to be viable, use it to its strengths, which are huge physical bulk, Rapid Spin, and Recover.
  20. flamewizzy21

    flamewizzy21

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    33
    Are we looking at the same base stats? On Serebii's base stats,
    Bergmite -> Avalugg -> Bergmite@Eviolite (after defense boost)
    HP 55 -> 95 -> (55)
    ATK 69 -> 117 -> (117)
    DEF 85 -> 184 -> (127)
    SDEF 35 -> 46 -> (52)
    SPE 28 -> 28 -> (28)

    Of course I'm not taking into account the effect of eviolite on EV's, IV's, and individual values, but I don't see where Bergmite outclasses Avalugg. Is there something that's obvious to everyone else? I don't see it.
  21. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Bergmite is a joke. It has less HP, less Defense, no offensive presence whatsoever, the same speed but who cares, and no Leftovers. Stats for 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Relaxed are:

    Bergmite:
    HP: 314
    Atk: 170
    Def: 442
    SpA: who cares
    SpD: 151
    Spe: low

    Avalugg:
    HP: 394
    Atk: 266
    Def: 513
    SpA: who cares
    SpD: 123
    Spe: low

    So...Eviolite Bergmite has one stat higher than Avalugg with the same investment. And Avalugg has Leftovers.

    Stop talking about Bergmite.
    The Jakester and G-Von like this.
  22. AvaluggTheBrave

    AvaluggTheBrave

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Avalugg is my new favorite Pokemon. I envision him on a Triple Battle Team including the following Pokemon: Togekiss, Mega Gengar, Smeargle, Abomasnow, Blaziken, and Avalugg. I don't know if any of the following movesets are banned, I'm new to competitive.

    Togekiss - Follow Me, Extrasensory, Air Slash, Substitute
    Mega Gengar - Hypnosis, Mean Look, Shadow Ball, Dazzling Gleam
    Smeargle - Dark Void, Amnesia, Stealth Rocks, Baton Pass
    Abomasnow - Ice Shard, Leech Seed, Grasswhistle, Wood Hammer
    Blaziken - Bulk Up, Baton Pass, Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick
    Avalugg - Avalanche, Recover, Earthquake, Mirror Coat

    The first three Pokemon sent out from left to right would be Togekiss, Mega Gengar, and Smeargle. The point would be to trap all three pokemon with Shadow Tag, use Follow Me to divert attacks from the left and middle while a Focus Sash Smeargle can use Dark Void. Gengar could use hypnosis on the third Pokemon (on the left). From there, Smeargle would use Amnesia to set up to pass to Blaziken to use Bulk Up. The point would be to set up as much physical bulk and attack to send to Avalugg. Abomasnow would only be used to set up Snow Warning. This team mainly depends on the Sleep condition. Taunt would really mess things up too. I'm going to use this team my next time through the game because I love Avalugg! Avalugg the BRAVE! There can only be one Iceberger!

    I also thought about, for lols, using a Smeargle with - Dark Void, Quiver Dance, Geomancy, Baton Pass and giving Avalugg Frost Breathe for critical hits. Geomancy and Quiver Dance would, if I am correct, max out Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed in 4 turns. It was just something fun to think of, but not very practical.

    Feedback would be nice. I love Avalugg!
  23. The Jakester

    The Jakester

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    To bad Blaziken got banned to ubers it would of given this guy a nice niche and a firm spot in OU as he is a pretty hard counter to blaze even though he is weak to both blazes main stabs he can tank both of them and in almost all circumstances he'll beat blaze out with a return EQ (Assuming you haven't let him set up yet)Also Abomosnow gives it a good set up for IceOver combo. Rocky helmet guarantees the ohko from EQ

    252+ Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -2 to 3hko with leftovers/ 3hko with Iceover combo
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 265-315 (67.2 - 79.9%) -2hko but life orb recoil kills him on second turn
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Sun: 369-437 (93.6 - 110.9%) -1 to 2hko

    With a boost from curse he becomes an ungodly wall
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 174-211 (44.1 - 53.5%)
    252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Sun: 244-291 (61.9 - 73.8%)
    And my Favorite
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 351-416 (89 - 105.5%)





  24. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,528
    Because you can obviously use Rocky Helmet and Leftovers on the same set?

    Also Stealth Rock exists. And the only way Avalugg can ever beat Blaziken is if Hi Jump Kick misses.

    It's really nice for Avalugg that Blaziken and Mega Gengar got the boot. It still has a lot of problems but it's easier to play around them now.
  25. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    157
    Seems like there really is no reason to be running Sturdy, since according to the calcs you guys posted not much can 1HKO him. And if he does survive the 1HKO he will never, in any set, leave a signiicant dent in the opposing pokemon to be worth investing in Sturdy.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)