Yeah, but he'd still get one shot by anything with any kind of special attack. It doesn't help that Fire Blast is the special attack of choice that appears on normally pure physical attackers.
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Pokémon Avalugg
- Thread starter alexwolf
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What about using him on a rain team?
Would a team running on a turn limit to kick ass really want to waste time walling?
I was thinking using more of an offensive Avalugg, but yeah, I see your point.
Doubles Trick room Avalugg
Avalugg@ Assault Vest
Brave
ability - Sturdy
Avalache
Rock slide
gyro ball
Earthquake
This is to hit hard and is a a good revenge killer when it comes to a trick room bulk attacker, since it takes a while to set up a trick room, avalache goes through most enemies, most, as soon as trick room comes on, its very low speed becomes king.
Doubles Trick room Avalugg number 2
Avalugg@ Weakness policy
Brave
ability - Sturdy
Avalache
Protect
Gryo Ball/Rock slide
Curse
This is another good set, espically with Trick room, this set runs over alot of teams, espically if they are not prepared for a trick room
Avalugg@ Assault Vest
Brave
ability - Sturdy
Avalache
Rock slide
gyro ball
Earthquake
This is to hit hard and is a a good revenge killer when it comes to a trick room bulk attacker, since it takes a while to set up a trick room, avalache goes through most enemies, most, as soon as trick room comes on, its very low speed becomes king.
Doubles Trick room Avalugg number 2
Avalugg@ Weakness policy
Brave
ability - Sturdy
Avalache
Protect
Gryo Ball/Rock slide
Curse
This is another good set, espically with Trick room, this set runs over alot of teams, espically if they are not prepared for a trick room
If you're going to such lengths to make his Special Defense usable, Mirror Coat doesn't seem like a bad choice on the Doubles AV set.
True, espically with the ability Sturdy
Thank you for telling us about your newfound discovery. Please tell me how long did you rack your brain to figure that out. Also explain your train of I understand that I said leftovers and rocky helmet but after that I lost you.
Yet an other astounding observation stealth rocks do infact exists. However you have just made your first mistake you used an absolute, in fact i could give you a... Nevermind I wont give you a list as you will proceed to ignor it.
Only half this statment is right refer to my first comment please read all off it this time and you will undetstand. Why would you bring up a banned special sweeper/P-song traper who is immune to 2 moves that are common movepool canidates? Thats like saying gastrodon is no good because there are trevents running around with horn leech.
If you actually bothered to READ my post, I would say that Mega Gengar being banned helped Avalugg. It's not like saying Gastrodon is weak to Grass because Gastrodon can switch out of Trevenant, while Avalugg can't switch out of Mega Gengar.
All your calcs prove is that Avalugg can't switch into Blaziken. It has zero business staying in on Blaziken anyways, and if Avalugg is your only Blaziken check there's something really wrong with your team, at least pre-ban of Blaziken.
Let's face it, no smart player would lose their Blaziken that easily. Even if Avalugg gets in in the most favorable outcome, all Blaziken needs to do is switch out after inflicting about 70% on Avalugg, meaning it has to recover up and waste a turn while you switch in whatever you want.
Avalugg does not come close to even checking Blaziken. But that's really not important, since Avalugg is now better off with those bans.
Also my absolute statement is quite true. Unless the Blaziken player is REALLY STUPID, the only way Avalugg wins is with hax. Doesn't matter if you have Earthquake, Blaziken is switching unless it has already hit you or you are already weakened.
You obviously do not understand either my statements or the role of Avalugg, or even damage calculations. Your own damage calculations prove you quite wrong. Take the time to lurk in the forum, learn what a counter is, what a check is, etc.
For those who feel Sturdy is pointless on Avalugg (doesn't die to physical attackers / still loses to special attackers), consider giving Own Tempo a shot so that you can Earthquake Swagger Klefki into oblivion. Just my two cents.
Counter=Anything that can switch in, and barring extreme hax, always defeat or force out the Pokemon it counters.
Check=Anything that can defeat or force out a Pokemon, and beat them 1v1, but either cannot switch in or fears common hax or coverage moves, such as Jirachi's Iron Head or Chesnaught's Stone Edge.
Flamethrower Burns and Ice Beam freezes count as extreme hax for this definition. Jirachi Iron Head flinches count as common hax. Scald burns are a bit borderline.
These definitions should definitely be put somewhere in a stickied announcement and people should be forced to read it.
Is Mirror Coat terribly obvious? I haven't seen a lot of sets attempting to smack people around that way.
Using it requires the you have the ability sturdy and obviously, full HP. The first is condition easy to fulfill but the second can't really be expected. You're also dooming Avalugg if you decide to use it and with it your main physical wall. Plus you're losing a move-slot which for Avalugg is really important.
Hail Team would be the only reason I think he would work with other abilities. But how would he set up and sweep Doesn't have much damage, no speed, not the best movepool? Maybe if you BP stats to him, but then you might as well just have given those stats to an already better sweeper.
Mirror Coat would be a tough move to use and seems more gimmicky and unreliable than just using him as a physical wall spinner.
Fixed.
Seriously, you are never going to be able to facilitate a sweep with Avalugg that couldn't be done better by just about any other Pokemon you care to name (/hyperbole). Remove all your opponents special attackers? So get rid of Rotom, Greninja, Mega Lucario, Gengar, and Quiet Aegislash? That's a lot of support to ask for for not a lot of payback. Avalugg's only niche is it's immense bulk and access to Rapid Spin. If you're not taking advantage of that, you're left with a subpar physical sweeper who requires far too much support for what he can offer in return.
Iron Defense is a terrible move. It doesn't patch up Avalugg's weaknesses and it leaves him vulnerable to critical hits. And, as I said before, it's either Rapid Spin or bust.
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Yeah, pretty much. Avalugg is a really badass physical wall, and he should be used as such.
Why would it require Sturdy or full HP? Its Special Defense is bad but is about the equivalent of a Base 80-er when fully invested (without a +SpDef nature). In the example I gave, it would have Assault Vest, too, which lets it sit at a very respectable 287. With Wish support and intelligent balancing between HP/Attack/SpDef (as 287 Special Defense is probably not the ideal way to spread EVs around), I could see this being a reasonable niche tank on the right team. It gets solid coverage with Avalanche/Earthquake (or Gyro Ball if you're into that), still has Rapid Spin at its disposal, and could definitely limit the number of special attackers that could safely throw moves at it with Mirror Coat. Definitely lessens the feeling of "any special attack is a 2HKO, wahhhhhhhh"
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Going off its stats, i think it should be used to soak up physical hits and spin if it needs to. It really doesn't have any business tanking special hits. Sure you can use Mirror Coat to take out a Special Attacker and survive thanks to Sturdy but thats only one mon you've disposed of and imo, you've wasted its potential with only one HP left.
Fuck, i wish i more had Ice Types that could eat Technician Boosted Bullet Punches from overused Scizor and live to tell tale. Hell this thing gets Recover for crying out loud and not by tedious chain breeding.
I see using other Pokemon to cover up this weak special defense/typing as a better alternative rather than forcing the Ice based Coffee Table to be something its not. If you see obvious special attacker, switch the fuck out so you don't get melted. Remember, there are a ton of Pokemon in the game, pretty damn sure some of them can complement Avalugg.
I am torn on the ability though. Sturdy is cool but is Klefiki common enough to run Own Tempo? Ice Body is interesting to say the least but only under Hail conditions (which requires Abomasnow or Aurorus using Snow Warning but i think the latter might be an unreleased ability).
On another note, Ice types really need a buff tho. Seriously Gamefreak.
Fuck, i wish i more had Ice Types that could eat Technician Boosted Bullet Punches from overused Scizor and live to tell tale. Hell this thing gets Recover for crying out loud and not by tedious chain breeding.
I see using other Pokemon to cover up this weak special defense/typing as a better alternative rather than forcing the Ice based Coffee Table to be something its not. If you see obvious special attacker, switch the fuck out so you don't get melted. Remember, there are a ton of Pokemon in the game, pretty damn sure some of them can complement Avalugg.
I am torn on the ability though. Sturdy is cool but is Klefiki common enough to run Own Tempo? Ice Body is interesting to say the least but only under Hail conditions (which requires Abomasnow or Aurorus using Snow Warning but i think the latter might be an unreleased ability).
On another note, Ice types really need a buff tho. Seriously Gamefreak.
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I seriously think Avalugg does not justify its usage. Its base stat and access to reliable recovery is nice, the SpD flaw is less an issue, yet its typing alone demand extreme niche or else, a vast amount of team support.
It could make a good suicidal lead for HO teams as someone mentioned forehead. Recovery stall phyisical pokemon and check special attackers with mirror coat. Ideally you can try to force some switches to bring the team low with entry harzard. And spin-out the harzards before it got KO. This is the set I may run.
252/0/252+/0-/4/0 EV, leftover
Rapidspin
Stealth Rock
Mirror Coat/Roar/Avalanch
Recovery/Roar
Roar can be used repel opponent setter/spinner/spinblockers(rare) so that you can spin more reliably and die in a better moment. Note that you are completely screwed by taunters with this set.
Avalanche is a physical version of mirror coat against more specific targets. Not really something you expect your lead to deal with but who knows how the meta may shift?
This is the only set I don't see being a burden to your team. Forretress may not has recovery but it does its thing what so ever. While Avalugg basically counters nothing and every single of its switch in besides the very first round is too huge of a risk.
For this reason DO NOT expect it to function as a traditional spinner AT ALL.
And for any offensive sets. Why would run this guy when I have mamoswine etc.
It could make a good suicidal lead for HO teams as someone mentioned forehead. Recovery stall phyisical pokemon and check special attackers with mirror coat. Ideally you can try to force some switches to bring the team low with entry harzard. And spin-out the harzards before it got KO. This is the set I may run.
252/0/252+/0-/4/0 EV, leftover
Rapidspin
Stealth Rock
Mirror Coat/Roar/Avalanch
Recovery/Roar
Roar can be used repel opponent setter/spinner/spinblockers(rare) so that you can spin more reliably and die in a better moment. Note that you are completely screwed by taunters with this set.
Avalanche is a physical version of mirror coat against more specific targets. Not really something you expect your lead to deal with but who knows how the meta may shift?
This is the only set I don't see being a burden to your team. Forretress may not has recovery but it does its thing what so ever. While Avalugg basically counters nothing and every single of its switch in besides the very first round is too huge of a risk.
For this reason DO NOT expect it to function as a traditional spinner AT ALL.
And for any offensive sets. Why would run this guy when I have mamoswine etc.
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Not sure why people would be leaving him in against Life Orb Flamethrowers and Magnezone Flash Cannons. Not everything throwing out Special Attacks is an absolute beast with a super-effective option, and so Mirror Coat is there for the other special-based Pokémon.
Seriously, Sturdy is hardly necessary here (though it might still be his best option). I guess people complain about Swagger Klefki, though, so Own Tempo could be useful there.
Seriously, Sturdy is hardly necessary here (though it might still be his best option). I guess people complain about Swagger Klefki, though, so Own Tempo could be useful there.
While I may be a bit of exaggerating, I still think it has a hard time justifying itself over other things for a OU slot outside being a lead in HO teams(which he does wonders).
Its SR weakness and pathetic special defence makes it much easier to remove than it seems at the first glance, for this reason alone it is not really some tanks you would rely on. For the same reason it also lost a huge part of its niche as a spinner. It also does not have access to Ice shard, which largely removes its ability to revenge kill, of course you can tank a hit and hit back rather easily, yet again this creates you extra risk that you may not want to take.
In addition, while checking dragons are nice, you would have to compete with the new fairies for that position.
On the other hand, it is important to know that while recover can make its longevity monstrous, its usage does give your opponent free turns. While this is not an issue in general, it can be an issue for Avalugg as it RELIES on it to soak up SR damage, hence making you extremely predictable.
I won't deny however, if you are not facing SR at all, you will have a much better time, as most of the thing mentioned above does involve stealth rock. However by now I still find SR too good for any team to not take.
Anyway, most importantly, don't quote one sentence from my words and rewrite the others. I never say sth about taking random fire blast or the like. And even if I want to say something similar, I would say taking a random STAB special move not being part of its resistance.
Sturdy is a strong option on him as he has access to recover and mirror coat. It is important to know that you have to survive the hit first before you can use your mirror coat, which it won't. And recover allows it to maintain its sturdy much easier.
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