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B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Stellar

    Stellar
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    I think he meant "does No Guard allow the user to hit a Pokémon through Substitute?" (similar to hitting Flying or Digging Pokémon)
  2. Jaxx

    Jaxx

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    stellar:

    Ahh I see the wording put me off. In this case yes a Substitute will still block an incoming attack even with No Guard.
  3. Tortferngatr

    Tortferngatr

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    Actually, it was the former.

    I misheard something on IRC and wanted confirmation.
  4. MB Espeon

    MB Espeon

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    I know it says Shadow Tag doesn't prevent rotation, but just to be thorough, Arena Trap should probably be added to that statement.

    Tested this one over at the Opelucid rotation battle house in Black.
  5. CPU

    CPU

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    Does this mean that, in the rare event that a Skymin is frozen, reverts to Land Form, and thaws out, it will not return to Sky Form?

    That'd be interesting, and as I don't have a Shaymin to test with, I'd like to know.
  6. Phi

    Phi

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    If you baton pass an imposter ditto a sub, does it keep the sub and transform?
  7. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    @CPU: I think you will need to use a Gracidea again for Shaymin.

    @Phi: not really top priority right now since Imposter's unreleased, but I'd imagine that Ditto will transform anyway.
  8. Jaxx

    Jaxx

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    This thread isn't about might or maybe.

    I will test these later and update this post with the results.

    EDIT:

    Tested both.

    #1 CPU:

    Indeed after you are frozen and thawed out Shaymin will stay in its Land form.

    #2 Phi:

    Yes you will still transform via Imposter even when you are behind a sub.
  9. Zyrac

    Zyrac

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    I'm looking for some clarification on how Friend Guard works. There is a frustrating lack of solid information on this. The OP here says it "reduces damage done to a teammate by 25%", but that's awfully vague. Does it reduce damage taken from allies, enemies or both? In a triple battle, does it only work on allies adjacent to the user?
  10. black_cotton

    black_cotton

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    Past Generations Conversion couldn't select Curse because of the ??? type. The thing is in this Gen. Curse is an Ghost-type move. Can conversion select it right now?

    Edit: No need anymore, I tested and Conversion really selected curse, making smeargle a ghost type.
  11. poccil

    poccil
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    Zyrac:

    My description for Friend Guard reads:

    Effectiveness of attacks against allies of the bearer (except confusion damage) is multiplied by 3/4. (This effect is cumulative.)

    Accordingly, Friend Guard affects attacks no matter which Pokemon caused the attack (otherwise it would have read, for example, "attacks by opposing Pokemon against allies of the bearer"; it doesn't affect confusion damage, though) and even if the Pokemon with Friend Guard and the ally are not adjacent (otherwise it would have read "attacks against adjacent allies of the bearer"). I've tested this Ability to make sure of this.
  12. Zyrac

    Zyrac

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    Thank you, poccil. I will keep your site in mind from now on.
  13. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    OK something weird just happened in my game:

    I´m battling this Elite 4 fighting guy and his last Pokémon Conkeldurr just used Hammer Arm on my Rhyhorn, Rhyhorn magically (it has a much lower level and was at 50% HP) survived the hit with 1 HP left, but there was the animation as if it fainted.

    Now the game asks me "Battle using which Pokémon?" and when I click the 1/179 HP Rhyhorn it says Rhyhorn IN BATTLE and clicking on Rhyhorn again I get a message "Rhyhorn is already in battle!"

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Afterwards I clicked another Pokémon to send it out, but then the game froze on this screen...

    [​IMG]

    I didn´t know where else to post it. Also I haven´t altered the game in any way, have not traded with anyone, etc. It´s probably nothing major, but maybe someone else has similar experience.
  14. Jaxx

    Jaxx

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    I'm assuming this is the legit copy of the game and not a patched rom?

    If so then I will look into this further.
  15. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    What's with the 2 Metagrosses with the same nick and HP?

    I haven't really been able to replicate this though. It might be something wrong with your game. :/
  16. CPU

    CPU

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    Have you tried calculating the damage to see if it could have survived anyway?

    But then again, that would be a 4th Gen Calculation, and I have an inkling that the formula's changed somewhat, since I had a foe's Boldore survive a hit with 1 HP left (not Sturdy, no activation message) when I don't think it would have otherwise. Unfortunately I can't find my notes on what happened at the moment.
  17. melvni

    melvni
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    Someone posted a thread where about this happening a few months ago (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103040) so you're definitely not alone. It doesn't seem anyone knows why this happens, but it appears the only solution is to turn off the game or (if possible) forfeit the battle.
  18. Virizion

    Virizion

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    That has happened before, it's similar to what the Battle Subway does when that one Fisherman guy sends out his fainted Vanilluxe/Starmie/Walrein, but I suppose when the same situation happens for the player, it just freezes the game.

    I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean anything, it's just a rare glitch.

    Edit: OH COME ON, MELVNI
  19. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    it could possibly be a damage overflow or something since the linked thread has a random and probably low-levelled Cottonee involved.

    As Conkeldurr has a ridiculously high Attack stat and the level difference is approx. 15(Rhyhorn is LV 58 if I saw that correctly and Marshal's Conkeldurr is 72 on the rematch), and the attack used was a SE Hammer Arm, I suppose that it could be possible that the game couldn't handle that much overkill. I dunno actually, just my 2 cents.
  20. Deaga

    Deaga

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    That doesn't seem right, though. There's ways to do much bigger overkill since previews gens (Kyogre using Surf on Geodude, anyone?) and they didn't overflow. BW has better technology, why would it?

    The only overflow I've heard of in Pokémon is Marowak in GSC, which was understandable because it was on a GBC cartridge. But on a DS one? I think that's unlikely.

    No idea of anything else it could be, however. :/
  21. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    I'm not really so sure, but I was looking around and found that the reported cases involved a lot of damage being done(Hammer Arm on Rhyhorn, and Hi Jump Kick on Cottonee).

    It's actually possible since in some hacks of B/W some trainers are hacked with LV 99 Pokemon and they give out lolz EXP, possibly an underflow or something.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdx5e7rcHrE scroll to around 3:25. When Flareon kills Volcarona he only gains 800 something EXP.

    Since B/W has things like 3D engine and what not, you never know. :/
  22. Jaxx

    Jaxx

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    I'm going to assume that a badged researcher would have only posted this if the game was legit and not a patched rom.

    Of course the idea of a damage overflow is almost ridiculous. Since the upgrade to ds I have done some massive damage including V-creating a lv5 with my lv100 Victini with a choice band. I just simply think we are taking this the wrong route.

    I will be testing this out to confirm the details however I don't think pulling at straws is the right answer.
  23. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    Lol of course not a rom, it´s a legit copy of the game.

    @ TM13 I don´t hack, those 2 metagross are just normal in-game clones from emerald (emerald tower cloning) -> rsfrlge -> black, not cheats

    the rhyhorn is a baby that I bred today, it was level 58 at that point, holding a lucky egg, conkeldurr is level 73

    The turn it happened, I used revive on the second metagross (to explode later) and conkeldurr hammer armed rhyhorn (it was at 89 / 179 HP because it was revived)...

    Maybe some games just glitch once in 450 hours or so and it´ll never happen again...
  24. Jaxx

    Jaxx

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    I have compiled three lists from the link quoted above which contains every move within the game. These three lists are in alphabetical order and are categorised into: Moves that are completely blocked by Substitute, moves that are unaffected by Substitute and moves that are partially blocked by Substitute. The third list will contain moves that cause the Substitute damage but at least one of their effects will be blocked. I felt the third list was necessary as being classed as "Blocked" may be misleading for some people.

    Moves that are completely blocked by Substitute (open)

    After you
    Bestow
    Block
    Captivate
    Charm
    Confuse Ray
    Cotton Spore
    Dark Void
    Entrainment
    Fake Tears
    FeatherDance
    Flash
    Flatter
    Gastro Acid
    Glare
    GrassWhistle
    Growl
    Guard Split
    Heal Pulse
    Hypnosis
    Kinesis
    Leech Seed
    Leer
    Lock-On
    Lovely Kiss
    Mean Look
    Metal Sound
    Mind Reader
    Nightmare
    Pain Split
    Poison Gas
    PoisonPowder
    Power Split
    Psycho Shift
    Quash
    Sand-Attack
    Scary Face
    Screech
    Simple Beam
    Sing
    Sky Drop
    Sleep Powder
    SmokeScreen
    Soak
    Spider Web
    Spore
    String Shot
    Stun Spore
    Supersonic
    Swagger
    Sweet Kiss
    Sweet Scent
    Switcheroo
    Tail Whip
    Teeter Dance
    Telekinesis
    Thunder Wave
    Tickle
    Toxic
    Transform
    Trick
    Will-O-Wisp
    Worry Seed
    Yawn


    Moves that are unaffected by Substitute (open)

    Absorb
    Acid Armor
    Acrobatics
    Acupressure
    Aerial Ace
    Aeroblast
    Agility
    Air Cutter
    Ally Switch
    Amnesia
    AncientPower
    Aqua Jet
    Aqua Ring
    Aqua Tail
    Arm Thrust
    Aromatherapy
    Assist
    Assurance
    Attack Order
    Attract
    Aura Sphere
    Automize
    Avalanche
    Barrage
    Barrier
    Baton Pass
    Beat Up
    Belly Drum
    Bide
    Blast Burn
    Bonemerang
    Bone Rush
    Brave Bird
    Brick Break
    Brine
    Bulk Up
    Bullet Punch
    Bullet Seed
    Calm Mind
    Camouflage
    Charge
    Charge Beam
    Chip Away
    Close Combat
    Coil
    Counter
    Comet Punch
    Conversion
    Conversion 2
    Copycat
    Cosmic Power
    Cotton Guard
    Crabhammer
    Cross Chop
    Crush Grip
    Curse
    Cut
    Defend Order
    Defense Curl
    Destiny Bond
    Detect
    Dig
    Disable
    Dive
    Doom Desire
    Double-Edge
    Double Hit
    Double Kick
    DoubleSlap
    Double Team
    Draco Meteor
    Dragon Claw
    Dragon Dance
    Dragon Pulse
    Dragon Rage
    Drain Punch
    Dream Eater
    Drill Peck
    Drill Run
    Duel Chop
    Earthquake
    Echoed Voice
    Egg Bomb
    Electro Ball
    Embargo
    Encore
    Endeavor
    Endure
    Eruption
    Explosion
    ExtremeSpeed
    Facade
    Faint Attack
    False Swipe
    Feint
    Fiery Dance
    Final Gambit
    Fire Pledge
    Flail
    Flame Burst
    Flame Charge
    Fly
    Focus Energy
    Focus Punch
    Follow Me
    Foresight
    Foul Play
    Frenzy Plant
    Frost Breath
    Frustration
    Fury Attack
    Fury Cutter
    Fury Swipes
    Fusion Bolt
    Fusion Flare
    Future Sight
    Gear Grind
    Giga Drain
    Giga Impact
    Grass Knot
    Grass Pledge
    Gravity
    Growth
    Grudge
    Guard Swap
    Gust
    Gyro Ball
    Hail
    Hammer Arm
    Harden
    Haze
    Head Charge
    Head Smash
    Heal Block
    Heal Bell
    Healing Wish
    Heal Order
    Heart Swap
    Heat Crash
    Heavy Slam
    Helping Hand
    Hex
    Hidden Power
    Hi Jump Kick
    Hone Claws
    Horn Attack
    Horn Leech
    Howl
    Hydro Cannon
    Hydro Pump
    Hyper Beam
    Hyper Voice
    Ice Ball
    Ice Shard
    Icicle Spear
    Imprison
    Ingrain
    Iron Defense
    Judgement
    Jump Kick
    Karate Chop
    Last Resort
    Leaf Blade
    Leaf Storm
    Leech Life
    Light Screen
    Low Kick
    Lucky Chant
    Lunar Dance
    Mach Punch
    Magical Leaf
    Mirror Coat
    Magic Room
    Magnet Bomb
    Magnet Rise
    Magnitude
    Meditate
    Me First
    Mega Drain
    Megahorn
    Mega Kick
    Mega Punch
    Metal Burst
    Metal Claw
    Meteor Mash
    Metronome
    Milk Drink
    Mimic
    Minimize
    Miracle Eye
    Mirror Coat
    Mirror Move
    Mist
    Moonlight
    Morning Sun
    Mud Sport
    Nasty Plot
    Natural Gift
    Nature Power
    Night Shade
    Night Slash
    Odor Sleuth
    Ominous Wind
    Outrage
    Overheat
    Payback
    Pay Day
    Peck
    Perish Song
    Petal Dance
    Pin Missile
    Pound
    Power Gem
    Power Swap
    Power Trick
    Power Whip
    Present
    Protect
    Psych Up
    Psycho Boost
    Psycho Cut
    Psyshock
    Psystrike
    Psywave
    Punishment
    Pursuit
    Quick Attack
    Quick Guard
    Quiver Dance
    Rage
    Rage Powder
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Razor Leaf
    Razor Wind
    Recover
    Recycle
    Reflect
    Reflect Type
    Refresh
    Rest
    Retaliate
    Return
    Revenge
    Reversal
    Roar
    Roar of Time
    Rock Blast
    Rock Polish
    Rock Throw
    Rock Wrecker
    Role Play
    Rollout
    Roost
    Round
    Sacred Sword
    Safeguard
    Sandstorm
    Scratch
    Secret Sword
    Seed Bomb
    Seismic Toss
    Selfdestruct
    Shadow Claw
    Shadow Force
    Shadow Punch
    Shadow Sneak
    Sharpen
    Shell Smash
    Shift Gear
    Shock Wave
    Silver Wind
    Sketch
    Skill Swap
    Skull Bash
    Sky Uppercut
    Slack Off
    Slam
    Slash
    Sleep Talk
    Snatch
    Snore
    Softboiled
    SolarBeam
    SonicBoom
    Spacial Rend
    Spike Cannon
    Spikes
    Spite
    Spit Up
    Splash
    Stealth Rock
    Steel Wing
    Stockpile
    Stone Edge
    Stored Power
    Storm Throw
    Strength
    Submission
    Substitute
    Sucker Punch
    Sunny Day
    Super Fang
    Superpower
    Surf
    Swallow
    Swift
    Swords Dance
    Synchronoise
    Synthesis
    Tackle
    Tail Glow
    Tail Slap
    Tailwind
    Take Down
    Taunt
    Techno Blast
    Teleport
    Thrash
    Torment
    Toxic Spikes
    Trick Room
    Triple Kick
    Trump Card
    Uproar
    U-turn
    Vacuum Wave
    V-create
    Venoshock
    ViceGrip
    Vine Whip
    Vital Throw
    Volt Switch
    Water Gun
    Water Pledge
    Water Sport
    Water Spout
    Weather Ball
    Whirlwind
    Wide Guard
    Wild Charge
    Wing Attack
    Wish
    Withdraw
    Wonder Room
    Wood Hammer
    Work Up
    Wring Out
    X-Scissor


    Moves that are partially blocked by Substitute (open)

    Acid
    Acid Spray
    Air Slash
    Astonish
    Aurora Beam
    Bind
    Bite
    Blaze Kick
    Blizzard
    Blue Flare
    Body Slam
    Bolt Strike
    Bone Club
    Bounce
    Bubble
    BubbleBeam
    Bug Bite
    Bug Buzz
    Bulldoze
    Chatter
    Circle Throw
    Clamp
    Clear Smog
    Confusion
    Constrict
    Covet
    Cross Poison
    Crunch
    Crush Claw
    Dark Pulse
    Defog
    Discharge
    Dizzy Punch
    DragonBreath
    Dragon Rush
    Dragon Tail
    DynamicPunch
    Earth Power
    Electroweb
    Ember
    Energy Ball
    Extrasensory
    Fake Out
    Fire Blast
    Fire Fang
    Fire Punch
    Fire Spin
    Fissure
    Flamethrower
    Flame Wheel
    Flare Blitz
    Flash Cannon
    Fling
    Focus Blast
    Force Palm
    Freeze Shock
    Glaciate
    Guillotine
    Gunk Shot
    Headbutt
    Heart Stamp
    Heat Wave
    Horn Drill
    Hurricane
    Hyper Fang
    Ice Beam
    Ice Burn
    Ice Fang
    Ice Punch
    Icicle Crash
    Icy Wind
    Incinerate
    Inferno
    Iron Head
    Iron Tail
    Knock Off
    Lava Plume
    Leaf Tornado
    Lick
    Low Sweep
    Luster Purge
    Magma Storm
    Memento
    Mirror Shot
    Mist Ball
    Mud Bomb
    Muddy Water
    Mud Shot
    Mud-Slap
    Needle Arm
    Night Daze
    Octazooka
    Pluck
    Poison Fang
    Poison Jab
    Poison Sting
    Poison Tail
    Powder Snow
    Psybeam
    Psychic
    Razor Shell
    Relic Song
    Rock Climb
    Rock Slide
    Rock Smash
    Rock Tomb
    Rolling Kick
    Sacred Fire
    Sand Tomb
    Scald
    Searing Shot
    Secret Power
    Seed Flare
    Shadow Ball
    Sheer Cold
    Signal Beam
    Sky Attack
    Sludge
    Sludge Bomb
    Sludge Wave
    Smack Down
    SmellingSalt
    Smog
    Snarl
    Spark
    Steamroller
    Stomp
    Struggle Bug
    Thief
    Thunder
    Thunderbolt
    Thunder Fang
    ThunderPunch
    ThunderShock
    Tri Attack
    Twineedle
    Twister
    Volt Tackle
    Wake-Up Slap
    Waterfall
    Water Pulse
    Whirlpool
    Wrap
    Zap Cannon
    Zen Headbutt


    Shout out to Ayeeelin for helping me double check these lists.
  25. Antar

    Antar Self-anointed Czar of LC UU
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    I need some help confirming something rather unfortunate.

    So I had a Wi-Fi battle that ended up pitting Jirachi against Scrafty.

    Jirachi launches a Doom Desire after 1 Calm Mind.
    Three turns later, Jirachi launches a second Doom Desire.
    In those intervening three turns, Jirachi got off 1 additional CM, and Scrafty got up 3 Bulk Ups (which shouldn't matter).

    I saved the battle, played back the game using an emulator, and managed to get a somewhat exact reading on how much each Doom Desire did.

    The first did approximately 63%. The second did approximately 31%.

    Using this damage calculator, I have managed to verify three things:

    • +1 DD against Max HP, Max (S)Def Scrafty does 55-65% (good)
    • +2 DD against Max HP, Max (S)Def Scrafty with no defensive boosts does 74-88% (a LONG WAY off from 31%)
    • +2 DD against Max HP, Max (S)Def Scrafty with the defense stat at +3 does... 29-35%

    So I'm left with one of two possibilities: either Bulk Up raises SDef as well as Def, or Doom Desire hits on the physical side.

    I can post an excerpt of the battle if that would help.

    [Edit: Update. I just heard back from my opponent. He says he was running Careful, 252 HP, 248 SpD. If Doom Desire hits on the physical side, that means:

    • +1 DD against non-boosted Scrafty does 84-99%
    • +1 DD against +3 Scrafty does 34-40%
    • +2 DD against +3 Scrafty does 45-53%

    What this seems to indicate is that Bulk Up is raising SpD, but I find that HIGHLY unlikely, as I'm sure people would have noticed it long before now. So I'm left with... what? Glitch in the game?]

    [Edit 2: I have an answer. It is EXTREMELY strange.

    First off, I screwed up the calcs (mis-entered the SpA as 252 rather than 4). So here are some calcs, based on the set my opponent gave me:

    • +1 DD against Scrafty does 44-52%
    • +2 DD against Scrafty does 59-70%
    • +0 DD against Scrafty does... 29-35%

    This makes perfect sense if you realize the following: Doom Desire not only uses the current stats of the current defending pokemon when it hits... it uses the current stats of the current offensive pokemon as well. Because... here's the thing I failed to mention: Jirachi was KOed immediately before that second DD hit. So, I guess, to the game, a KOed pokemon is considered to be at +0. I've verified in some tests on my end (against a Slowking) that this theory is consistent--what matters is the stats ON BOTH SIDES at the time the attack hits, not the stats at the time the attack is launched, but I'm going to need to check whether Doom Desires can be *passed* (as in, use DD on Jirachi, switch to a poke with INSANE SpA... what will the game use to calculate the damage?).]

    [Edit 3: Results of DD-passing are in, and they're rather disappointing. Doom Desire uses Jirachi's current SpA to calculate damage. So if Jirachi is out and at +6, that's awesome. But if you called Jirachi back or if Jirachi was KOed, Jirachi is considered to be at +0. Sigh. I think it's time to replace DD with Flash Cannon...]

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