Okay, guys. In case I haven't introduced myself, I'm your friendly neighborhood sim coder. We need to talk about Doom Desire (and Future Sight). upokecenter, Veekun, and the first page of this research thread are all way too vague. First, this is the gen 5 damage formula, according to upokecenter: int(int(int(2*L/5+2)*A*P/D)/50) where L is the attacker's level, A is the attacker's Attack/Special Attack value, P is the attack's power, and D is the opponent's Defense/Special Defense value.In gen 4, Doom Desire was simple. This entire calculation was done at the time Doom Desire was used, the resulting damage was stored, and the resulting damage was directly deducted from the HP of the pokemon in the target's position during the residual phase 3 turns later. In gen 5, that changed. Most of this calculation isn't done at the time Doom Desire is used, but at the time it hits. The big problem is: Stats can change (e.g. Jirachi can be hit by Memento), pokemon can be switched, and even types can change (e.g. Soak, Color Change). So when you say "attacker's SpA" - does "attacker" mean "pokemon who used Doom Desire" or "pokemon in the position the Doom Desire user was in when it used the move"? And are we talking about the SpA at the time of use or the SpA at the time of hit? And what about STAB? Is it calculated with the attacker's type at time of use? Attacker's type at time of hit? Type of the pokemon in the position the attacker was in when it used Doom Desire? And gems? The first page says gems are calculated at time of hit: Does it take the attacker's item, or the item of the pokemon in the position the attacker was in when it used Doom Desire? It seems most of these should apply either to the pokemon in the position of the attacker was when it used Doom Desire, or be a stored value from the attacker at the time of move usage, since pokemon not on the field are practically never interacted with during a battle [the only exceptions being Aromatherapy / Heal Bell / Illusion / Beat Up / Assist]. Even if that's safe to assume, the question is still: What's stored? People I've talked to say the SpA of the attacker is probably stored, but do we know this for sure? And is anything else stored? Level of the attacker? Type of the attacker? upokecenter has a huge list of things that can modify damage: http://upokecenter.dreamhosters.com/games/dp/guides/damage.php (This is poccil's gen 4 list since his gen 5 list is incomplete) Is it safe to assume these are all applied at time of hit, to the pokemon in the position the attacker was in when it used Doom Desire? It also seems like Doom Desire is now not handled as residual damage, but as a move being resolved during the residual phase of a turn. What is considered the attacker? Is it a placeholder, like the defender of an attack that hits a Substitute? The fact that Gems are used at the time of hit suggests that it's not a placeholder. And we say Doom Desire can't be used with Future Sight - what happens when both are used? Does the older one get replaced? Does the newer one fail? Is it safe to assume Doom Desire / Future Sight are associated with the attacker's position (i.e. limit one per attacker position at a time, but any number per target)?