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B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Naxte

    Naxte

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    Hmm... That's definitely neat and poses an interesting question then:
    -Does a Pokemon still take Life Orb damage only once for a multi-hit move, as in Gen IV, or does it now take 10% damage each time it hits the opponent?
  2. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    This might not be that important and I think is already assumed by most, but I remember someone asking about it on IRC so I thought I'd post it to be safe.

    Justice Heart does not receive a boost when being targeted by non-attacking Dark-type moves such as Taunt.
  3. Afti

    Afti

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    It does NOT. Tested with an Encourage Hihidaruma holding King's Rock using Earthquake.
  4. The Shadow Knight

    The Shadow Knight

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    Just to be sure, is that a Rivalry Ononokusu? Because I had my Mold Breaker Ono smash through Sturdy unhindered.
  5. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    So there's no boost. Just to confirm: were you able to get a flinch with Earthquake?
  6. Afti

    Afti

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    I tested until flinching something, yes.

    EDIT: Also, after some preliminary testing, I believe Bark Out has a 100% effect rate, making it like Icy Wind/Frozen World.
  7. MeroMero

    MeroMero

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    Directly taken from here http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_scarf (the same goes for Choice Band and Choice Specs)

    This is no longer the case. I slapped a Choice Scarf on a sleeping Exploud with Flamethrower, Sleep Talk, Earthquake and Ice Beam (it was for testing purpose), used Sleep Talk twice without switching, Earthquake was selected twice by Sleep Talk and both Earthquakes were successful.

    It works as well when different moves are selected by Sleep Talk, for example here Exploud used Choice Scarfed Sleep Talk twice, the first one selected Earthquake and hit the target, the second one selected Flamethrower and also hit the target.
    Obviously the 1,5x speed boost still applies.

    It also works for Choice Band and Choice Specs, and their respective boost still applies.
  8. mien

    mien
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    Tested this against a bunch of wild pokemon

    My Gengar with Victory Star holding Wide lens hit 28 out of 30 times with Focus Blast(93.3% hit rate) -> Not a 33% accuracy boost or 1 Stage
    Gengar with Victory Star without any item hit 48 of 50 times with Fire Blast(96% hit rate) -> Not a 20% accuracy boost
    Aerodactyl with Victory Star holding Wide Lens hit 48 out of 50 with Stone Edge(96% hit rate) -> Not a 15% accuracy boost
    Gengar with Victory Star holding Wide Lens hit 100 of 100 times with Fire Blast (100% hit rate)-> at least 10% accuracy boost

    I suppose if my calculations are correct one can conclude the fellowng:
    A pokemon with the ability Victory Star and his teammate receive an accuracy boost of 10% on their moves

    In other words in single battles this ability is basically Wide Lens, pretty terrible if you ask me.
  9. MeroMero

    MeroMero

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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/status#sleep

    In 5th gen Sleep acts like in 4th gen, but with a new characteristic reminiscent of Toxic poison:
    _each time a sleeping Pokémon (even if it is self-induced via Rest) switches its "sleep counter" will be reseted to the same value that was chosen by the game when the sleeping move hit the Pokémon (it will reset to 3 if the sleeping move was Rest);

    For example:
    _Turn 1: Doredia used Sleep Powder against Machamp, Machamp fell asleep, its sleep counter is now 4 (it will sleep during 3 turns);
    _Turn 2: Machamp's sleep counter is now 3 and it's still asleep;
    _Turn 3: Machamp switches to another Pokémon, its sleep counter will reset to 4;
    _Turn 4: Machamp is sent out again;
    _Turn 5: Machamp's sleep counter is 3 and it's still asleep;
    _Turn 6: Machamp's sleep counter is 2 and it's still asleep;
    _Turn 7: Machamp's sleep counter is 1 and it's still asleep;
    _Turn 8: Machamp switches to another Pokémon, its sleep counter will reset to 4;
    _Turn 9: Machamp is sent out again;
    _Turn 10: Machamp's sleep counter is 3 and it's still asleep;
    _Turn 11: Machamp's sleep counter is 2 and it's still asleep;
    _Turn 12: Machamp's sleep counter is 1 and it's still asleep;
    _Turn 13: Machamp's sleep counter is 0, Machamp awakes and uses whatever move he'll use (for example DynamicPunch)

    EDIT: Modified my example a bit because it seems now Pokémon stay asleep 3 turns max (if anyone can confirm or refute here because I'm not sure)
  10. mien

    mien
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    I confirm this,
    I've put a Venusaur asleep and switched it out and back in after every 2 sleep turns.
    After a total of 20 sleep turns venusaur was still asleep.

    This sounds so terribly broken...
  11. SupremeDirt

    SupremeDirt

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    This sounds so terribly useful, combined with the new information on Choice items. Choiced sleep absorbers, anyone? Of course, they'd have to be shifted over, Sleep Talk isn't a TM any more.
  12. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    Code:
    [B][U]snorlax[/U][/B] (460kg) heavy bomber: 
    
    vs mesprit (0.3kg) 	BP = 120-127
    vs mew (4kg) 	 	BP = 120-122
    vs altaria (20kg) 	BP = 120 (Mien. got both max dmg 121 and min dmg 102)
    vs togekiss (38kg) 	BP = 113-120
    vs flygon (82kg) 	BP = 112-120
    vs venusaur (100kg) 	BP = 100 (Mien. got both max dmg 101 and min dmg 85)
    vs mewtwo (122kg) 	BP = 80-86
    vs dragonite (210kg)  	BP = 59-62
    vs torterra(352kg)    	BP = 40-42
    vs snorlax (460kg) 	BP = 40 (Mien. got both max dmg 41 and min dmg 34)
    vs giratina-o (750kg) 	BP = 40-41
    
    [B][U]hariyama[/U][/B] (253.8kg) heavy bomber: 
    vs mesprit (0.3kg) 	BP = 118-126
    vs mewtwo (122kg) 	BP = 58-61
    vs torterra (352kg) 	BP = 37-40
    
    [B][U]emboar[/U][/B] (150kg) heavy bomber: 
    vs mesprit (0.3kg) 	BP = 117-124
    vs mewtwo (122kg) 	BP = 40-41
    vs torterra (352kg) 	BP = 37-41
    OK, according to the above results:
    1. heavy bomber´s lowest base power is definitely 40
    2. heavy bomber´s highest base power seems to be 120 (try to get that 102 or 104 damage against mesprit with snorlax)
    3. heavy bomber has 5 base powers, namely 40, 60, 80, 100 & 120
    4. the formula doesn´t depend solely on the target´s weight (doesn´t work as a reverse GK/LK)

    don´t shoot me Mien. :)

    next tests (just a few hits, 2-3 will be enough against each, maybe even just one hit against each)

    snorlax heavy bomber

    vs camerupt (220kg, 1/2 damage)
    vs gyarados (235kg, 1/2 damage)
    vs hariyama (253.8 kg)
    vs rhyperior (282.8kg, lightningrod, 2x damage)
    vs hippowdon (300kg)

    <- to find where the BP jumps from 40 to 60

    vs machamp (130kg)
    vs lickilicky (140kg)
    vs kingdra (152kg, half damage)
    vs milotic (162kg, half damage)
    vs regice (175kg, double damage)
    vs suicune (187kg, half damage)
    vs tyranitar (202kg, double damage)

    <- to find where the BP jumps from 60-80

    vs salamence (102.6kg)
    vs dusknoir (106.6kg)
    vs spiritomb (108kg)
    vs shelgon (110.5kg) if possible
    vs rhyhorn (115kg, 2x dmg) if possible
    vs scizor (118kg, 1/2 dmg)
    vs exeggutor (120kg)

    <- to find where the BP jumps from 80 to 100

    vs exploud (84kg)
    vs tauros (88.4kg)
    vs charizard (90.5kg, 1/2 damage)
    vs garchomp (95kg)

    <- to find where the BP jumps from 100 to 120

    they don´t have to have 216 defense (less is OK, more is not) for a damage calc., just able to survive the hit...if you start with the lightest (test in the order I wrote them, start with garchomp...or with camerupt, doesn´t matter) and
    see a jump in damage, you don´t have to test heavy bomber on the following pokémon in that group, skip them and start with the first pokémon in the next group

    example: the damage jumps between shelgon and spiritomb, skip dusknoir and sala and continue with tyranitar

    good luck
  13. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    This is interesting news on sleep. What I'd like to know now is the distribution of the initial seep counter.

    For instance, it used to be:
    2 turns - 25%
    3 turns - 25%
    4 turns - 25%
    5 turns - 25%

    What is it now? Can the sleep counter now start at 1 (aka the Pokemon wakes up immediately? Do all counts still have equal probability or are some more likely than others?

    EDIT: If somebody does test this, please always use the same sleep-inducing move. It's possible, however unlikely, that different sleep-inducing moves now last for differing numbers of turns.
  14. Joel

    Joel

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    Just curious if anybody has tried to couple Sing-a-Round with Technician.

    I was looking through the new movedex, and seen Persian gets Sing-a-Round via TM. It's a Normal type SpAtk with a BP of 60, but if used in succession, it gains power.

    If Sing-a-Round gets a boost from itself, will it still get a Technician boost on the second useage (or third useage)?

    If it does still get the Technician boost, with Nasty Plot, as well as the Sing-a-Round boosts, this could be big news for Persian in NU.
  15. MetalKid

    MetalKid

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    Experience

    Looks like there is some sort of new experience equation. The higher level a Pokemon is, the less experience they get from fighting the same Pokemon of a given level. Has anyone looked into this yet?
  16. MeroMero

    MeroMero

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    What I can recall is that my Exploud never woke up immediately after being put to sleep by Churine aka Pokémon always sleep at least 1 turn.

    In fact it just also refused to sleep 4 turns so far, it caped at 3 turns max but I could've been "unlucky" here, though right now it seems that the sleep counter can now choose a number between 2 and 4 (1 to 3 turns of sleep).

    The sad thing is that when I done the tests I didn't thought at taking notes about the probability of each event, but I remember that Exploud was less likely to sleep only 1 turn, being asleep 2 or 3 turns seems to have higher (and equal) probability however.

    I'll record the percentages later though, because right now I'm tired lol.
  17. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    Philip7086 and I tested this together and here is what we worked out, using multiple Pokémon to test.

    Here is what happens when you attack a mon holding Rough Helmet with the ability Iron Barb:

    - Attack does damage to the holder
    - Iron Barb kicks in and does 1/8 damage rounded down
    - Rough Helmet kicks in and does 1/6 damage rounded down (for example, my terrier has 100 HP, and it took 16 damage; 1/6 of 100 is 16.6666667)

    Rough Helmet and Iron Barb work even if the attack KOes the holder.

    The damage values are fixed whether you use them in conjunction or not. Rough Helmet still did 1/6 even without Iron Barb.
  18. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight A Knight for the Aegis
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    Could anyone test if Reckless is actually 200% recoil, 200% damage this Gen rather than its old ability decription, which was just a 20% boost on recoil moves? It's not listed as an updated Ability effect, yet it still has the same description on their abilitydex.
  19. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    I also reported that Recycle was successfully stolen in my previous post.

    Anyways, we (jumpluff and I) went and tested Power Trick and it was successfully stolen, and then re-tested Lunar Dance. So the first time we tested Lunar Dance, the Snatch Pokemon was able to prevent its opponent from executing it, but didn't die itself. I later realized that it might have been because the Snatch Pokemon was the only one in my party. This time when we tested it, it worked. This leads to two discoveries:

    1. Snatch does indeed steal Lunar Dance
    2. Lunar Dance will fail if the Pokemon using it is the last surviving Pokemon in your party.

    We will test Aqua Ring and Healing Wish (I also want to re-test Conversion, because there might have been a translation mishap the first time) soon.
  20. mien

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    Tested this 20 times by using Hypnosis with the fellowing results(refering to the turn Venusaur woke up):

    1 turns: 0 (immediate wake up)
    2 turns: 8
    3 turns: 2
    4 turns: 10
    5 turns: 0

    It seems that sleep indeed only lasts 3 turns anymore. Quite interesting is the fact that 2-turn sleeps only happened twice, though it's possible this is just coincidence.
  21. CPU

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    Thanks for retesting Rough Helmet; I found it odd that it took 7 hits to KO. Since damage in Pokémon is always rounded down, low HP couldn't be an explanation as to why something that supposedly dealt 1/8 health only took 7 hits to KO.

    The Item's pretty scary, particularly in conjunction with Iron Barbs/Rough Skin. Dealing 7/24 from a contact move is no joke.
  22. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    I wanted to add that we tested this against more than one Pokemon, and the ratios were always the same (1/8 for Iron Barb, 1/6 for Rough Helmet).
  23. deluge

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    If a pokemon behind a substitute attacks a Pokemon with RoughSkin/Rugged Helm using a contact move does the sub take damage or the attacker?

    If it's the case that the sub does not take damage and the attacker takes enough damage to faint while the sub is still in tact is the sub passed on the next Pokemon or does it disintegrate?

    I have my own suspicions of what will happen but can anyone confirm?
  24. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

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    What kind of items does Embargo prevent from activating, all items or just single use ones?
    Specifically, would a Pokemon with Shed Skin be able to switch?
  25. Payton64

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    how much extra damage does the ghost move "evil eye" do when the opponent has a status ailment?

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