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B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Giulls

    Giulls

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    Check teaching a move with lower PP over a move with higher PP (Replace something like Light Screen (30/30) with Protect (10/10)). Does the newly learned Protect get 10/10 PP as its supposed to?
  2. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    Nope. The active Pokemon doesn't get a choice of targets, at least from the in-game Rotation Battles.

    Good questions.
  3. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    I would like a little more clarification concerning this phenomenon. First, are we absolutely sure that the counter doesn't always reset to the same constant number when a sleeping Pokémon is switched in? Meaning, have there been two separate accounts, one in which a Pokémon's counter keeps getting reset to 4 upon switching out and another where the counter keeps getting reset to, say, 2?
  4. sensible

    sensible

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    Can Male pokemon with TM moves from Gen 4 pass down said TM moves when breeding with Dream World pokemon? This could mean that Dream World abilities could be compatible with Gen 4 TM exclusives like Stealth Rock.
  5. redshift71388

    redshift71388

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    I don't understand the point of Light Metal (Ability) if it doesn't alter weight-based attacks.
  6. zerohorus

    zerohorus

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    I'm not sure if i should post this here but i have been experiencing the following:

    Since I captured a tyranitar (well a pupitar) i think Sandstorm has a secondary effect of:
    All Rock-type moves accuracy are raised

    My tests:(maybe i'm just lucky)
    Stone Edge (100/80) 10 times and maybe more used.- always hits
    Rock Blast (25/90) 10 times used.- always hits

    Can anyone confirm this with the same or other not 100% accuracy rock moves?
    Does sandstorm now works as hail for blizzard?, Does it still increases Sp.Def for those Rock-type pokemons?

    EDIT: Funny thing is it me or when a poke uses Thrash it sounds like the 1st world beginning of Super Mario Bros?
  7. dbolt

    dbolt

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    Code:
    Choice Band Gliscor and Choice Band Flygon with U-Turn:
    
    Turn 1:
    Aianto used Iron Head
    Gliscor used U-Turn
    Gliscor went back to dbolt
    dbolt sent in Flygon
    
    Turn 2:
    Flygon used Outrage
    Aianto used Crunch
    
    ---------
    
    Choice Scarf Gliscor and Choice Scarf Flygon with U-Turn:
    
    Turn 1:
    Gliscor used U-Turn
    Gliscor went back to dbolt
    dbolt sent in Flygon
    Koromori used Future Sight
    
    Turn 2:
    Flygon used Outrage
    Koromori fainted
    
    ---------
    Choice Specs Gliscor and Choice Specs Flygon with U-Turn:
    
    Turn 1:
    Gliscor used U-Turn
    Gliscor went back to dbolt
    dbolt sent in Flygon
    Gantoru used Power Gem
    
    Turn 2:
    Flygon used Outrage
    Gantoru used Stealth Rock
    
    ---------
    Choice Specs Emonga and Choice Specs Gigigiaru with Volt Change:
    
    Turn 1:
    Emonga used Volt Change
    Emonga went back to dbolt
    dbolt sent in Gigigiaru
    Aianto used Metal Claw
    
    Turn 2:
    Aianto used Metal Claw
    Gigigiaru used Return
    
    -----------
    Choice Scarf Emonga and Choice Scarf Gigigiaru with Volt Change:
    
    Turn 1:
    Emonga used Volt Change
    Emonga went back to dbolt
    dbolt sent in Gigigiaru
    Gantoru used Power Gem
    
    Turn 2:
    Gigigiaru used Return
    Gantoru used Knock Down
    
    -------------
    Choice Band Emonga and Choice Band Gigigiaru with Volt Change:
    
    Turn 1:
    Emonga used Volt Change
    Emonga went back to dbolt
    dbolt sent in Gigigiaru
    Aianto used Metal Claw
    
    Turn 2:
    Gigigiaru used Return
    Aianto used Metal Claw
    
    Choiced Pokemon aren't locked into U-Turn/Volt Change if the previous Choiced Pokemon used the same respective move.
  8. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    Tested this with jumpluff. The attacker takes damage from Rugged Helmet/Iron Barbs, not the Substitute.

    Finished testing the rest of this. Results:

    -Conversion (re-tested due to some confusion): Snatch successfully stole
    -Aqua Ring: Snatch successfully stole
    -Power Trick: Snatch successfully stole
    -Healing Wish: Snatch successfully stole

    In other words, Snatch successfully stole every move on that list!

    We also extensively tested Magic Coat, but jumpluff will post with our results!
  9. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    As Phil said, we also did testing on Magic Coat as per the OP:

    All of these worked except Encore, but there are some interesting notes.

    - It stole Encore but it failed.
    - Mischievous Heart cannot stop Mirror Coat from activating with Taunt. It just reflects the Taunt. Which makes sense, I guess, given Mirror Coat's priority.
    - Foresight, Odor Sleuth, and Mirror Coat still seem to operate on the same sort of counter. I think that was the case in 4th gen anway, but after Mirror Coat bounced back Foresight, it was unable to bounce back Odor Sleuth until I switched, and vice versa.
  10. MeroMero

    MeroMero

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    Every time so far I've tested that (thanks to save states) the pokémon sleep counter has always reset to the original value with no exception (regardless of if the sleep counter was 2, 3 or 4) , so one could say the sleeping pokémon definitely can have and keep only one "sleep account" active at time for each time it is put to sleep.
  11. Kaphotics

    Kaphotics Remodeling Kitchens
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    Over at ProjectPokemon MrFuji, Guested and I tested out PokeShifting, Generation 3/4 exclusive moves and WiFi's Random Battle.

    We tested Wild Pokemon Modifier Code caught Pokemon, which let us battle.
    We tested PokeShifted without any exclusive tutored move (ie only moves learnable in gen 5), it let us battle. Scizor's Bullet Punch was fine...
    We tested PokeShifted with exclusive tutor moves. It did not let us battle. Scizor + Superpower
    We tested Wild Pokemon Modifier Code caught with exclusive tutor moves from gen 4 (illegal). It did not let us battle.

    So if it never can learn a move in Black and White, it can't have that move to battle on Random WiFi.

    It appears as if Random WiFi battle only allows legal Generation 5 movesets. Sup Stealth Rock!
  12. reaverz

    reaverz

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    I think you need to tell us how that Scizor was obtained in the first place, because the game might be able to detect certain hacks. And what exactly does "WPMC caught" entail?

    There's already some uploaded Battle Videos that include Gen 4 TM and Tutor Pokemon over Friend Code WiFi, so we don't have to worry. I've seen plenty of Gen 4 Stealth Rock Pokemon being used, like the Uxie in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl2UOa4oAww
  13. Kaphotics

    Kaphotics Remodeling Kitchens
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    This is Random WiFi battle, not Pal Pad. Entirely random opponent, not based of of the Pal Pad. They presumably follow different rules. Random WiFi only allows legal gen 5 movesets, whereas Pal Pad has no restrictions. Random WiFi didn't allow legitimate Dream World Ability Pokemon either.

    Scizor was from my own RNG, and was legitimately PokeShifted, 100% legitimate. Random WiFi battle straight up rejected it when it had Superpower. When Brick Break was taught over it, it let it on.

    It wasn't able to detect blatantly edited IV/Nature Pokemon either. Legitimately caught, and IVs/nature edited. It let it on. (used a Hatooboo)

    (WPMC=Wild Pokemon Modifier Code, as I just abbreviated it from when I used it above).
  14. Kaleidoscope

    Kaleidoscope

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    Does Phione get the pre-evolution stone boost?
  15. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    no, since Phione doesn't evolve into anything.
  16. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    thank you so much! actually I woke up today with the solution on how heavy bomber works (don´t know but my brain sometimes solves stuff when half-asleep/asleep) and your test results prove it

    heavy bomer mechanics:

    A) 120 base power, if target´s weight is lower or equal to 1/5 (20%) of user´s weight
    B) 100 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/5 (20%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/4 (25%) of user´s weight
    C) 80 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/4 (25%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/2 (50%) of user´s weight
    D) 60 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/3 (33.3%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/2 of user´s weight (50%)
    E) 40 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/2 (50%) of user´s weight


    let´s check the results:

    Snorlax (460kg)
    1/5 = 92kg
    1/4 = 115kg
    1/3 = 153.3kg
    1/2 = 230kg

    1. Base power jumped from 120 to 100 between Charizard (90.5kg) and Garchomp (95kg).
    Theory says the cutoff is 92kg. Check.

    2. Base power jumped from 100 to 80 between Rhyhorn (115kg) and Scizor (118kg)
    Theory says the cutoff is 115kg. Check.

    3. Base power jumped from 80 to 60 between Kingdra (152kg) and Milotic (162kg)
    Theory says the cutoff is 153.3kg. Check.

    4. Base power jumped from 60 to 40 between Camerupt (220kg) and Gyarados (235kg)
    Theory says the cutoff is 230kg. Check.

    - to be 100% sure about rounding down, please heavy bomber regirock (230kg) to see whether the BP is 40 or 60, it should be 60

    - and to prove this theory as a whole, please heavy bomber the following pokémon with Emboar (150kg)

    a) Gastrodon (29.9kg), Muk (30kg) and Dusclops (30.6kg)
    - the BP should jump from 120 on gastro/muk to 100 on dusclops
    b) Porygon (36.5kg), Migtyena (37kg) and Fearow/Togekiss/Skuntank (38kg)
    - BP should jump from 100 on pory/yena to 80 on fearow/kiss/tank
    c) Hippopotas (49.5kg) and Skarmory/Snover/Darkrai (50.5kg
    - BP should jump from 80 on potas to 60 on skarm/snover/darkrai
    d) Larvitar (72kg), Crobat/Quagsire (75kg), Miltank (75.5kg) and Golduck (76.6kg)
    - BP should jump from 60 on bat to 40 on miltank


    I´m not sure how the actual coding for this formula looks like in the game though...but that shouldn´t matter as we are able to make a list of BP/target for the 15 fully evolved pokémon that learn this move, similar to the list we have for grass knot/low kick

    Thanks again, Mien.
    Awesome work!
  17. Kaleidoscope

    Kaleidoscope

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    I thought that maybe in the game's coding Phione might be listed as evolving into Manaphy, but with no method of doing it. Would be worth a quick test.

    Also, herbivore vs bullet seed. Does that give 2-5 attack boosts, or only one.
  18. Hydrattler

    Hydrattler

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    Its been proved that multi hit moves are counted as separate attacks so it will give 2-5 attacks boosts
  19. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    Well, not directly - Light Metal puts them in a different weight category, so that a normally 120 power Low Kick might then become 100 power or less. Quite hilariously, Metagross takes 120 power Low Kicks without Light Metal, and with Light Metal... still takes 120 power Low Kicks. I'll edit the description to make this clearer.

    That's way too few data points, but I'll add it to the question list anyway.

    I'm 99.9% certain this is not true, but I'll test it so we can shut it down as a rumor once and for all.

    What move did the Encore user use previously?

    *blink* Wha? Did you mean Magic Coat?

    I'll take it you meant Magic Coat. Does that mean that if the opponent used Foresight twice, Magic Coat would bounce back the first one but wouldn't bounce back the second?

    Be careful when using save states. As far as I can tell, the RNG seed for battles is always changing at a fast rate in the background, but once you enter, the RNG seed is set. In other words, if your save state rolls back to a point within the battle, the outcome of any moves - damage, sleep counters, etc. - will come out exactly the same if you use the same set of moves. What point are you restarting to?

    Anyway, I've done some preliminary tests on Evil Eye and Assist Power.

    Assist Power:

    Show Hide

    66 SpAttk Gallade vs. 155 SpDef Blissey, both at L50

    +2 Attack: 18 damage (60 power)
    +6 Attack: 34 (120-140 power, if the formula is correct it should be 140 power)

    I know it's not the best research practice to only get one damage result, but it's a pretty safe assumption that Assist Power gets a fixed power boost for each stage of stat increase.

    Also, it's pretty tricky trying to test this in the Double Battle Battle Subway, when my opponent keeps trying to KO me. Yes, I do make sure they don't give me any stat drops that would affect my results.

    I'll test for a cap on Assist Power's power when I find the Bulk Up TM.


    Evil Eye:
    Show Hide

    It's probably doubled power against Pokemon with any status condition.
    85 SpAttk Dusknoir vs. 83 SpDef Doreida, burned. Both L50.

    64 damage (within the 100 power range)

    I will, of course, get more damage results and against different statuses as well, including confusion.
  20. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Has this been tested even when the defending Pokemon is immune to the most being used against it?
  21. Yogi Bear.

    Yogi Bear.

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    Do Pokemon with the Slip Through ability use a different formula for damage calculation that only uses BP, Pokemon's Attack Stat, STAB, Weakness/Resistance, and Defending Pokemon's HP?

    Method of Testing: Compare the damage output of a Mischievous Heart Erufuun and a Slip Through Erufuun with Energy Ball. These Erufuun should have the same nature boost for SP.ATK and a similar IV (+- 5 points I'd say). Test on the same pokemon when doing this to avoid error.

    Edit: To be slightly more blunt: Does Slip Through completely ignore the defending Pokemon's attack stat when attacking?

    Also, do Power Items still "carry over" IVs in the daycare like in HGSS?

    Policy Question: Would is be wise to put the tests of things proven in the OP? (i.e. have the link to the video/post that is supposed to prove/disprove it)?
  22. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master

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    A couple things that might be worth testing.

    Hihidaruma's Daruma Mode ability.

    1: It activates when Hihidaruma goes beneath 50% HP, right? What happens if it recovers enough HP to go above 50%? Does it change back?

    2: Does Daruma Mode enable the alternate forme to exist, or merely the transformation to happen? IE: A Hihidaruma in Daruma Mode gets hit with Skill Swap/Worry Seed/whatever and loses Daruma Mode. Does it change back? Because I remember this being the case with Castform; if it loses Forecast, it simply just can't transform, and stays in the form it's in until it's switched out.

    3: What happens if something other than Hihidaruma gets Daruma mode and goes down to 50% HP or less? Will it transform?

    Seeing as there are Daruma Mode Hihidaruma available ingame, as opposed to the Dream World, I'm thinking this wouldn't be too hard to test.
  23. Naxte

    Naxte

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    Stellar (I believe) tested this in the Hihidaruma thread--it will transform back to normal at the end of the turn it's health went back over 50%.
  24. MeroMero

    MeroMero

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    Well, I use savestates only when it's absolutely required, like for example to determine the sleep counter (though for Rest there is no need to savestate):
    _I savestate just after the Pokémon has been put to sleep since the sleep counter is set in stone once the sleeping move hit the target, so I can determine the sleep counter without worrying about the Pokémon awakening
    _then I come back to the savestate (this operation is done only once) and now that I know the sleep counter I can verify if the sleeping Pokémon stay asleep the same number of turns before every switch

    so they helped me a little, otherwise I don't use them.
  25. coyotte508

    coyotte508
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    Lunar dance already failed in gen 4, if there was no replacements available.

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