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B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Silent Storm

    Silent Storm

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    A reason why your pokemon could be that they have gen iv tutor moves or egg moves (not sure about that one), which are banned on random wifi, or that pokesav bw is a horrible program for save file editing in this day and age. You will have more success with something like PokeGen, where someone has been able to get on random wifi when they edited their pokemon's ev's and iv's.
  2. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I was wondering, since Arceus holding a Plate and Giratina-O are immune to Trick, what happens to them in Magic Room? Does it cancel their items and make them go back to regular form? Does it cancel them and keep them in the same form? Do they ignore Magic Room altogether?
  3. joehigashi

    joehigashi

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    I am registered to that site but I don't believe it is a requirement. And yeah I did a random battle before just to test it and it went through fine, then I edited my save file and it hasn't worked since.
  4. Sixonesix

    Sixonesix
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    By the way guys, when you're testing what pokemon are allowed on random wifi, make sure your team itself isn't violating any rules, like item clause or having an uber. You might think you're getting blocked for pokesaved pokemon or 4th gen tutor moves when really it's because you have two Leftovers on your team.
  5. joehigashi

    joehigashi

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    A note on that though, if it is a rule break, or a uber, she won't even let you down the tunnel thing. If it is due to SAV/hacks you will go down, then be rejected.
  6. iruchii

    iruchii

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    Seconding Sixonesix. I don't think it's related to Tutor Moves or any of that- it's probably that people are forgetting about the Item Clause. Like I said, my friend can get in just fine with Pokésav'd Pokémon, as long as the Item Clause is being respected.
  7. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    The_Chaser and I just finished testing these.

    1. Fast Weavile Counter vs. Medium Speed Murkrow Whirlwind
    Result: Fast Weavile Counter went before Whirlwind

    2. Slow Wobbuffet Counter vs. Medium Speed Murkrow Whirlwind
    Result: Medium Speed Murkrow Whirlwind went before Counter

    3. Fast Erufuun Trick Room vs. Slow Skarmory Whirlwind
    Result: Trick Room went before Whirlwind

    Considering each move's priority (Trick Room = -7, Whirlwind = -6, Counter = -5), I think this makes it fairly conclusive that Mischievous Heart adds exactly +1 priority to all non-attacking moves.

    We also tested Mirror Move more:
    Since the first time we did this, we had to use U-turn, Mirror Move failed. It only worked when a faster priority attack hit the Mischievous Heart Mirror Move Pokemon. To test it further, we did the following test:

    1. Murkrow Mirror Move vs. Machop Strength
    Result:
    Turn 1
    Murkrow used Mirror Move! But it failed!
    Machop used Strength! Murkrow takes the hit!

    Turn 2
    Murkrow used Mirror Move! Murkrow used Strength! Machop takes the hit!
    Machop used Strength! Murkrow takes the hit!

    Turn 3
    Philip7086 switched Machop out! Philip7086 sent out Skarmory!
    Murkrow used Mirror Move! But it failed!

    Drawing from these results, and the results we got from testing Mirror Move against Extremespeed (Mirror Move succeeded on turn 1, after being hit by Extremespeed first), I think we are close to a few conclusions. It seems Mirror Move needs a few criteria to be met for it to function (in singles battles):

    1. The Mirror Move Pokemon must have taken a hit directly before using Mirror Move
    2. The Mirror Move Pokemon must be targeting the same Pokemon who targeted it for Mirror Move to work

    Next, The_Chaser and I tested Healing Heart, as requested in the OP:
    Okay, so I used a Rotom with the moveset, Will-o-wisp, Thunderwave, Toxic, and Shadow Ball, and spent the first part of this test statusing multiple members of The_Chaser's party, including Tabunne, the Healing Heart Pokemon. Then, for 30 turns, I kept using Shadow Ball and other moves against Tabunne to see how often it would heal its teammates of status attacks. Out of these 30 turns, Tabunne did not heal a single member of it's party of status even ONCE. We then tried to see if Tabunne heals status moves while not active in the battle. We tested this for around 15 turns while Tabunne was not actively in the battle, and again, not a single Pokemon was healed of its status.

    From this test, either we can conclude that The_Chaser and I are the unluckiest people on the planet, or that Healing Heart has an incredibly low activation rate, or that Healing Heart is more of an in-game mechanic, where if you're running around with a Healing Heart Pokemon, your other Pokemon's statusses might be healed. We will try testing this again later today when I get some more time.
  8. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Maybe it can only activate when the Healing Heart Pokemon/statused Pokemon switches in/out. That would explain why it never activated, snce it wouldn't happen all the time and you only switched a few times.
  9. Ruwisc

    Ruwisc

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    I was under the impression that Healing Heart was only active during doubles and triples, keeping the Healing Heart Pokemon's teammates status-free. At least that's how it was showcased with Mamanbou pre-release. That would also explain why you've yet to get any results from it.
  10. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    This would make sense. I'll test this in a bit, thanks for the suggestion!
  11. joehigashi

    joehigashi

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    Well he's literally the only person I've heard of that has been able to do that. Did he sign up to the site?
  12. iruchii

    iruchii

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    Nope, he didn't.

    Regardless, the only thing he changed with Pokésav were the Pokémon moves, natures, IVs, EVs and levels. He didn't alter the Pokémon species themselves, their abilities or their locations. Maybe it has something to do with that?
  13. joehigashi

    joehigashi

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    Perhaps. Though I don't see why that would work, then other people who have SAV'd only EVs, or even just a few items haven't been able to go on random battles.
  14. mien

    mien
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    I confirm this, my chansey restored my Metagross it's Paralyze in a double battle(which was annoying as i needed the paralyze to calculate Electra Ball mechanics)
  15. BaldWombat

    BaldWombat

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    With each new game release Nintendo has been adding more and more hex values and trash bytes. It is possible that their hack check software is looking for these values and they aren't there. The person who is getting them to work is catching the poke in the wild and then modifying it instead of creating it from scratch so it would have the proper info it. I don't believe that anyone has figured out all of this information yet with regards to pokemon editors.
  16. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    Great work, you two! Thanks for going the extra mile to make absolutely sure we got this right. If you're in the mood, you might want to check if Quick Claw and Custap Berry now actually boost move priority as well.

    I understand how you would draw those conclusions, but they are most likely erroneous.

    Do your test with the Machop again, only this time use a move that doesn't hit the Mirror Move user (like Focus Energy) after using a move that does (like Strength). It should go something like this:

    Turn 1
    Murkrow used Mirror Move! But it failed!
    Machop used Strength! Murkrow takes the hit!

    Turn 2
    Murkrow used Mirror Move! Murkrow used Strength! Machop takes the hit!
    Machop used Focus Energy! It's getting pumped!

    Turn 3
    Murkrow used Mirror Move! Murkrow used Strength! Machop takes the hit!
    Machop does something I don't care about because the test is over.

    This is what would have happened in 4th gen and if it still happens, then your first conclusion is invalid.

    Your second conclusion is technically correct, but misleading. The reason Mirror Move didn't work when you brought in your Skarmory is that there were no longer any Pokemon still on the field that had hit the Mirror Move user during their current stint in play.

    I really appreciate you guys testing Mirror Move, but it's a real zebra of a move and it's not that high a priority, at least for me. Feel free to test other stuff and leave that one to me once my copy of Pokemon White finally gets here. If you really want to keep testing it, then read my description of how it worked in 4th gen and be aware that the the one difference that we're aware of in 5th gen is that you now choose a target when using it.

    As others have mentioned, Healing Heart heals your allies on the field in a double or triple battle. I recommend you test both. Can it heal both allies at once?
  17. joehigashi

    joehigashi

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    As I said before, any editing at all, for example 999 masterballs stops people from having random battles. In my experience anyway.
  18. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    Slip Through

    Philip7086 and I tested the Slip Through question in the OP.

    Here were our results:

    Slip Through successfully bypassed:
    • Safeguard
    • Light Screen
    • Reflect

    Slip Through failed to bypass:
    • Protect
    • Detect
    • Substitute
    • Fast Guard
    • Stat boosts
    • Dig
    • Fly
    • Dive

    We also tried to test against Wide Guard in a Doubles battle, but it seems Wide Guard did not work in general. When we attacked with a non-Slip Through Pokemon, it still hit the target (who should have been protected by Wide Guard), and so obviously, the same target was also hit with the Slip Through Pokemon.
  19. mien

    mien
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    Confirmed this by using a Zangoose with ability Poison Rampage holding Toxic Orb and a Drifblim with ability Heat Rampage holding Flame Orb against a Snorlax and a Agirudaa respectivly.

    Zangoose(no status): 157-162 damage
    Zangoose(Poison): 217-248

    Drifblim(no status): 126-132 damage
    Drifblim(Burn): 174-189 damage
  20. BaldWombat

    BaldWombat

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    Pokesav is also notorious for leaving trash bytes in places around the save file. Someone has already posted that they have taken Savd pokes onto WiFi Random battles. It seems that you just have to learn how to emulate the caught/bred Pokémon. This doesn't sound much different from PBR or the GTS. They wouldn't allow battles on PBR with Pokémon that didn't meet the hack check and the GTS wouldn't let battle videos be uploaded if any of the Pokémon in the video failed to bypass the hack check.

    It will take a while for all of these little changes to be found and verified. If their hack checks are now looking at things like hex values, you will either have to learn to manually input those values into Pokesav or use a program like PokeGen which does it for you, at least with 4th gen it did.
  21. mien

    mien
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    Confirmed this by using both Zangoose(Body Slam) and Drifblim(Shadow Ball) against a Dragonite with Multi-Scale. None of the pokemon carried items.

    Zangoose against full health Dragonite: 56-59 damage
    Zangoose against Dragonite that lost hp: 117-124 damage

    Drifblim against full health Dragonite: 43-45 damage
    Drifblim against Dragonite that lost hp: 81-86 damage
  22. shipship

    shipship

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    If AR leaving "traces" is the problem, it seems you could easily get around it by having 2 game carts and keeping 1 "clean."
  23. Manda

    Manda

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    I have saved pokemon and I can go into random Wifi when I want, granted that I use pokemon that I have caught in game any saved pokemon or that I have tampered with gets denied.
    and there seems to be a way around it since I have encountered a japanese player with a no guard Kingler spamming guillotine that or he was extrmely lucky.
  24. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    Just tested this with Setsuna. He brought in a Smeargle that had Submerge, Will-o-wisp, Toxic, and Thunderbolt, and I brought in my Emboar and Doryuuzu.

    Turn 1
    Smeargle used Submerge! Emboar was transformed into a Water type!
    Emboar used Cheer Up! Its Attack and Special Attack rose!

    Turn 2
    Smeargle used Will-o-wisp! Emboar was burned!
    Emboar used Cheer Up! Its Attack and Special Attack rose!

    Turn 3
    Philip7086 withdrew Emboar! Philip7086 sent out Doryuuzu!
    Smeargle used Submerge! Doryuuzu was transformed into a Water type!

    Turn 4
    Smeargle used Toxic! Doryuuzu was badly poisoned!
    Doryuuzu used Swords Dance! Its Attack sharply rose!

    Turn 5
    Philip7086 withdrew Doryuuzu! Philip7086 sent out Emboar!
    Smeargle used Thunderbolt! Emboar took normal damage!
    Emboar was hurt by burn!

    Turn 6
    Philip7086 withdrew Emboar! Philip7086 sent out Doryuuzu!
    Smeargle used Thunderbolt! But it doesn't seem to effect Doryuuzu...
    Doryuuzu was hurt by toxic!


    So to summarize, yes, when Fire/Steel-type Pokemon's type is changed to something else and they get burned/poisoned, the status remains even after their type changes back to normal through switching out. I don't think there's any reason to believe this is any different for Poison-types and poison, but if you would like us to test that out to be sure, we can easily do so. Pretty interesting stuff :)
  25. Morm

    Morm

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    So a herbivore pokemon switches in on Bullet seed that hits 5 times and now it is +5 atk? Ouch.

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