1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

B&W Research Thread

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by ΩDonut, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. MB Espeon

    MB Espeon

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    350
    From what I recall hearing in another post in this topic, wide guard only protects the opponent's team from attacks that hit more than one opponent.

    The only way I can see this being tested with Erufuun though is if it learned razor leaf as Monmen. And even then, that's assuming Razor Leaf can still hit multiple opponents.

    Oh, and a question of my own to add to the list. Does Slip Through ignore Endure? I dunno how strict they're trying to be with "protection" but since it's on the same counter as protect and detect and since it does technically keep your pokémon from fainting from direct attacks I would think it's worth a test.
  2. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,959
    Has this been confirmed?
  3. Elliot Gale

    Elliot Gale

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    88
    I would think that Herbivore negates the entire attack, and there are no further hits after the first.
  4. ShravanP

    ShravanP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    243
    In reply to the above two posts, here's what's posted on the OP:

  5. mattj

    mattj blatant Nintendo fanboy

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,632
    This isn't true. Several people here have said they have used sav or AR and can still play randomwifi. I think this ought to be looked into though. Sounds about like PBR though.
  6. Squid Ninja

    Squid Ninja

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    268
    I can confirm this. In a doubles Wild battle with a Herbivore Buffaron, my Hahakurimo used Leaf Blade and activated his ability. The next turn, my Hiyakki used Grass Knot and made him boost again. and a second Leaf Blade from my Hahakurimo made him get a third attack boost.

    With all the multi-hit data users have compiled, I'm pretty sure Bullet Seed would activate it 2 to 5 times, giving the Herbivore Pokemon a +2 to +5 Atk. However, this begs a question: after Herbivore is activated, does the Bullet Seed stop? In other words, does it only hit once?

    Another question that this brings up: Does Flash Fire now activate every time the FF Pokemon is by a Fire move, or is it just one boost? Do Motor Drive, Lightning Rod and Storm Drain also get "infinite" boosts?
  7. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,727
    I have no idea why I typed in "Herbivore activation". Neither one of those posts mention Herbivore at all. Shame on me.

    For all the other moves, it make some sense that they would activate for each hit - because they are actually working and doing damage. If you use Fury Swipes against a Gengar, it doesn't go

    It doesn't affect Gengar...
    It doesn't affect Gengar...
    It doesn't affect Gengar...
    It doesn't affect Gengar...
    Hit 4 times!

    We need a conclusive test on Bullet Seed against Herbivore. (I'm betting on only one +1 boost.)
  8. coyotte508

    coyotte508
    is a Programmer Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    157
    Picklesword tested it in HGSS and it's already the same mechanic. The mechanic described is a bug that happened in DP and was fixed in Platinum.

    This is also confirmed by Smogon:

  9. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    It's a shame nobody bet against you, because you're right. I just tested Bullet Seed vs. Herbivore with The_Chaser, and Herbavore only activated once, then the move stopped after the first immunity hit.
  10. Elemt

    Elemt

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    239
    Let's say theres a 3v3 battle. Your team, Smeargle, Oobemu and any random pokemon say Espeon. The Oobemu uses Side change on Smeargle and they switch places on the battle field. Smeargle uses any attack, it's arbitrary, say Dragon Dance. Espeon uses Psychic on Smeargle.

    So basically, what happens in this situation? Does Espeon hit the Smeargle or Oobemu?
  11. Seriin

    Seriin

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Messages:
    207
    Flash Fire is a different type of ability from the others, but I can't confirm or deny how it works as I've never tested. It doesn't directly raise a stat, only the power of Fire type attacks.

    Lightningrod and Motor Drive (and likely SD), cap out at +6, just as if you were using a stat up move of your own. After that, they will still absorb the electric attacks, but you are simply given the message "[pokemon] is unaffected".

    Also, any speed/s.att boosts gained during this time count toward the +6. Nitro charge from the Zebra added 1 to the +speed counter, but only 5 Motor Drives boosted speed. This is normal however, and shouldn't be expected to act any differently.
  12. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    889
    A sample of how Life Gamble works. Maybe someone skilled enough can extrapolate how much HP Metagross had and see if the move works as advertised. Also, in that same video, what example happens after the final hit of the match is delivered? The winner seems to lose HP for no reason, and it doesn't seem to be because of a Berry.


    Also, my last post was apparently ignored, most probably since it was in the middle of the whole Assist research and during a page break.
  13. sb879

    sb879
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    278
    I'm pretty sure it's just Rugged Helmet activating at the end.
  14. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    889
  15. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,727
  16. Wilyweavile

    Wilyweavile

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    21
    I apologize if this shouldn't be posted here as it isn't a battle mechanic but could affect a person's play through of Black and White.

    I had one of my pokemon who knew Gyro Ball forget Gyro Ball for Fly. When entering battle Fly had 5pp remaining out of 15pp. I also had this happen when Tackle with 15pp was forgotten for Cheer Up, Cheer up had 15pp remaining.

    Again sorry if this post doesn't belong here but I figured I'd report it since I saw it.
    (also sorry if it was mentioned before but I don't think it was)
  17. MauriiDS

    MauriiDS

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    104
    Yeah, this was done to prevent the refill of PPs using TMs.

    Im sorry but I think it is only you. I tried to play random wi-fi matches with a full team created in pokesav and there`s not problem at all for me.

    Also tested another thing, when I tried to enter with Porygon 2 (pokesav`d) the wi-fi didn`t let me search for other players; it wasn`t because Porygon 2 was a pokesaved pokemon, it was because Porygon 2 had Pain Split. So I went to the move relearner, give her a Heart Scale and relearn Recover over Pain Split. After that I tried to play random wi-fi matches again and this time it worked flawlessly.
  18. 420

    420

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    245
    posting to confirm that bounce, fly, and air slash are all able to hit any opponent on the field in triple battles, including your own allies. also made a picture because I was bored.
  19. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    Re-tested Healing Heart with The_Chaser, now that we know it's a doubles/triples ability! xD
    Here are the battle logs from our tests:

    Scenario 1 Setup:

    Murkrow | Healing Heart Tabunne | Sabeleye
    Scenario 1 Setup Log (open)

    Turn 1
    Paralyzed Tabunne

    Turn 2
    Burned Murkrow

    Turn 3
    Toxiced Sabeleye

    Turn 4
    Nothing happened

    Turn 5
    Nothing happened

    Turn 6
    Tabunne healed Sabeleye (5 turns since first ally was statused)


    Turn 7
    Paralyzed Sabeleye

    Turn 8
    Nothing happened

    Turn 9
    Tabunne healed Murkrow (3 turns since last Healing Heart activation)


    Turn 10
    Paralyzed Murkrow
    Tabunne healed Sabeleye (1 turn since last Healing Heart activation)

    Scenario 2 Setup:

    Murkrow | Sabeleye | Healing Heart Tabunne
    Scenario 2 Setup Log (open)

    Turn 1
    Paralyzed Sabeleye

    Turn 2
    Paralyzed Murkrow

    Turn 3
    Tabunne healed Sabeleye (3 turns since first ally was statused)


    Turn 4
    Paralyzed Sabeleye

    Turn 5
    Nothing happened

    Turn 6
    Nothing happened

    Turn 7
    Tabunne healed Sabeleye (4 turns since last Healing Heart activation)


    Turn 8
    Paralyzed Sabeleye

    Turn 9
    Nothing happened

    Turn 10
    Nothing happened

    Turn 11
    Nothing happened

    Turn 12
    Tabunne healed Sabeleye (5 turns since last Healing Heart activation)


    Turn 13
    Paralyzed Sabeleye
    Tabunne healed Sabeleye (1 turn since last Healing Heart activation)

    To summarize, here's how often Healing Heart activated:

    Turns it took to activate : How many times it took this long to activate
    5 : 2
    4 : 1
    3 : 2
    2 : 0
    1 : 2

    In terms of a percentage, out of all those turns, Healing Heart activated ~31.82% of the time an adjacent ally was statused. Yes, that's right, Healing Heart seemed to only heal allies who were directly adjacent to it. As you can see in Scenario 2, Tabunne only ever healed Sabeleye of its status, not Murkrow, whereas in Scenario 1, Tabunne healed both Pokemon at different times. From these tests, it appears Healing Heart cannot heal both teammates at the same time. Although, the sample where Tabunne was in the middle is probably not large enough to be conclusive on this. Healing Heart also did not heal any Pokemon in the party that weren't active. Finally, a Healing Heart Pokemon also seems to never heal itself of status, only its teammates.

    -----

    Edit: Just tested Uproar from the OP with Setsuna
    We can confirm that this is true. Out of 10 tests, Uproar lasted 3 turns each time.
  20. The_Chaser

    The_Chaser RVW
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    920
    I tested to see whether stench cause flinches with jumpluff and Philip7086. Firstly, I tested (with jumpluff) a Faster Stench Skuntank screech vs Muurando and it did not flinch once after 32 times . Then I tested (with Philip7086) a faster Stench Skuntank scratch vs Skarmory and it did not flinch once after 20 times. Furthermore, the Veekun and Serebii pokedex's don't mention stench as being able of causing flinches and jumpluff's japanese translation of stench also does not mention stench causing flinches. Therefore, I think its safe to assume that this myth is busted.
  21. MINSC

    MINSC

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    [Echo Voice Test]





    HOW TO TEST

    Reshiram (SpDef 195, HP 250)
    Chirachino (SpAtt 124)
    Jaroda (Gastro Acid)

    1. Jaroda use Gastro Acid to Chirachino. (for delete Technician)
    2. Chirachino use Echo Voice to Reshiram.
    3. Check the reshiram's remain HP.
    4. Use the Full Potion to Reshiram, and Chirachino use Echo Voice again.
    5. Check the reshiram's remain HP.
    6. Use the Full Potion to Reshiram, and Chirachino use Echo Voice again.
    7. Repeat it.

    test

    (turn) [remainHP] [Damage] [expectation of base power]
    1 226 24 40
    2 198 52 80
    3 177 73 120
    4 142 108 160
    5 135 115 200
    6 120 130 200
    7 132 118 200
    8 126 124 200
    9 124 126 200
    ...
    ...
    ...





    in double battle

    1. X used Echo Voice (BP 40)
    Y used Echo Voice (BP 40)

    2. X didn't used Echo Voice
    Y used Echo Voice (BP 80)

    3. X used Echo Voice (BP 120)
    Y didn't used Echo Voice

    4. X didn't used Echo Voice
    Y didn't used Echo Voice (BP reseted)

    5. X used Echo Voice (BP 40)
    Y used Echo Voice (BP 40)




    [RESULT]

    Echo Voice starts out with a base power of 40. However, if used consecutively, each successful hit will do double the base power of the previous hit. Echo Voice can reach a maximum base power of 200. After this attack has been used 5 times in a row, the base power will no longer increase.

    (base power 40 - 80 - 120 - 160 - 200 - 200 - 200 - ..... - 200 - ....)


    English is TOO DIFFICULT TO ME.
    Can you understand what I say?
  22. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,727
    Yes! Thanks for testing it, I will add it to the first post.
  23. MINSC

    MINSC

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Yes, it does. Also, power increased at rotation battle. BUT opponants's Echo Voice don't increased our Echo Voice's power.

    1. If X didn't used Echo Voice and Y used it in the same turn, power increases.
    2. If Y didn't used Echo Voice and X used it in the same turn, power increases.
    3. If X and Y used Echo Voice in the same turn, power increases. but power increasing is not triple(40 -> 120). only double(40 -> 80).
    4. If X and Y didn't use Echo Voice and opponant used it, power don't increase.

    [Fury Cutter + (good something) -> Echo Voice]
  24. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,727
    New rule added to the first post:

  25. iruchii

    iruchii

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    674
    Just to clarify: none of my tests have been done on a patched or modified version of the game.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)